Armageddon's Rape Policy

[solera]

When I played as a youngster in the 'rinth, I felt that I had  consented to the idea of rape when I made my character. I felt it was in my characters background, it was insinuated by fellow PCs, she was sexually molested once and I think I would have consented to FTB if the occasion arose.
So I suppose I'm asking, should I have made a young, or any rinther if I hadn't been willing to consent?

[Jingo]

I've made young vulnerable characters in the 'rinth before with absolutely no intention of consenting should the occasion arrise.

It would be better to not second guess the intentions of the other player and not risk getting your teeth knocked out by the staff.

[Barzalene]

Yes, I think it is valid to play a rinther and not be raped. In fact, I feel strongly that this is true. No one in this game every has to consent to rape in any role. Being a rape victim is not something that anyone should be forced to deal with by any game even at the remove of it happening only to a fictional construct.

[lepxii]

My 2 cents - I never understood the motivation of the rule (consent in general, and rape in particular). It takes away from the harshness of the game, and feels lawyerly. I takes situation from IC, to OOC, and requires OOC interactions. A request to fade is one thing (and most players aren't jerks, and would follow regardless of the rule) - the current state is another.

Rape happens in the real world. Torture happens. In almost every conflict (ancient world, modern, WWII, Bosnia, Sudan, ....) rape and torture have occurred on a vast scale. People move on. PCs can move on as well.

(That being said - a rule is a rule, and if it has been laid down, it should be followed)

[Synthesis]

[Barzalene]

This shit again.

Can I explain why?






This shit again, because people feel pressure to acquiesce to things that are making them uncomfortable and unhappy and it bears repeating that they don't have to.

[Sam]

I think there is a large amount of rape in the VNPC world, but that doesn't mean it needs to be played out.

Rape is sometimes called a 'landmine' issue. Once you touch on it and remind someone of it, it could cause them to blow up, and noone should be subjected to that.

[Synthesis]

[MeTekillot]

barzalene keeps saying acquiesce and I don't know what that word means.

[Malifaxis]

I've instigated playerkills just by someone mentioning that they might rape someone else.

I don't play white knights.  I don't play fuckers in shining armor.  My PCs tend to be just as scoundrely as many others in their own ways, but I've never played (and I never will play) anyone who considers rape to be A-OK.  

Why?  RL experiences.  Call me a shitty roleplayer, I don't give a fuck.  I'm not going to do it.

And I will absolutely continue to act as I have.

5 will get you 10 that anyone on this board who is preaching bullshit about "Oh it happens in the real world" has never actually looked into the eyes of someone that they loved after this violation of the spirit and mind has happened to them.

Fine, don't understand why you can't go out on a rape fest.  Refuse to get this little concept through your damn skull, it doesn't matter.

The rule is the rule.  Anyone can refuse rape.  Period.  Accept it, and go fucking spam forage for an hour or two as you cry into your second-hand purchased Japanese girl panties.

*throws down the microphone and steps off his soap box*

For fuck's sake.

[Synthesis]

barzalene keeps saying acquiesce and I don't know what that word means.

http://tinyurl.com/5rz5gke

[Sokotra]

Problem is if you don't want to consent to rape (or something else sexual) and you know you are probably going to get your character killed for it, that is like being coerced into consenting even though you don't want to.  A bit of a quandary.  I don't have much trouble with the harshness, and I very rarely end up with PCs that are in these situations.  The whole deal justl seems pretty dumb and keeping the game at a level suitable for young teenagers or others... some sort of middle ground... would probably be better for everyone.

I think staff and everyone does a pretty good job at keeping that middle ground for the most part, but there are some issues that probably don't work well for everyone and may perhaps chase off some players.... pushing things a little too far in the direction of being a game that only one particular group of people want to play and alienating the rest.

Harshness is one thing... pervasive language and sexual stuff goes a little too far for a lot of people.

[MeTekillot]

I don't see any reason why a rape plotline can't be replaced with a "savagely beating the shit out of" plotline instead. Why you gotta get killed?

[Delirium]

I don't see any reason why a rape plotline can't be replaced with a "savagely beating the shit out of" plotline instead.

[Cind]

If you really want to play that one person from that one movie, but are uncomfortable with doing it ig, just have it in your background or have it happen offscreen?

The longer the amount of time has passed the easier it gets to deal with, I think, but I'm pretty sure, even if you want to experiment with the idea, that rping a new character who was just raped is going to make a lot of people feel uncomfortable unless you're acting tough about it, which is almost impossible, and the toughies in the world who never smile and smirk at everything that isn't their dinner will have trouble smirking at you.

In my mind playing the victim is more difficult. When you play a rapist, you can just do that offscreen, or with npcs, or pc consentings.

PCs are unique, right? We're the rich boys, the swaggering pimps and especially lovely prostitutes and bynners with especially exciting lives, the promising Tor cadets, the elves with human friends and the humans with elf friends, the spice smugglers that don't get caught, the rinthis that leave the 'rinth, the rogue 'gickers, the mindbending aides. Most PCs have resources or the skills to avoid getting into such jams or, really, becoming the victim of most crimes apart from theft and murder. Compare your average PC to the average npc commoner; we've got game compared to them, if we so choose. Thus, the low prevalence of rape among pcs will make more sense; although I've seen a few pcs whose backgrounds are just rife with abuse and/or torment, rather than isolated single incidences. This happens in real life, too, for some people. A mother who strikes her breed child once is more likelt to continue to do so repeatedly.

So its totally cool cuz we rock for the low prevalence and everything yah?

[Samoa]

I don't see any reason why a rape plotline can't be replaced with a "savagely beating the shit out of" plotline instead. Why you gotta get killed?

Because a person who is a rapist may not be the same thing as a person who is someone who would beat the shit out of someone.

[Jingo]

Also, don't be the fuckwit that asks consent for "general nastiness" and then proceeds to sexually violate a character. I will enjoy getting your character stored for it.

I'm looking at you, templar x. (not a current templar character)

[MeTekillot]

I don't see any reason why a rape plotline can't be replaced with a "savagely beating the shit out of" plotline instead. Why you gotta get killed?

Because a person who is a rapist may not be the same thing as a person who is someone who would beat the shit out of someone.

I mean it's a reasonable alternative to just outright killing the PC.

[Cind]

I don't see any reason why a rape plotline can't be replaced with a "savagely beating the shit out of" plotline instead. Why you gotta get killed?

Because a person who is a rapist may not be the same thing as a person who is someone who would beat the shit out of someone.

I mean it's a reasonable alternative to just outright killing the PC.

or seeing some sexy vnpc walk by that they prefer.

or rp tying you up and then turning their back, unpacking their bag or whatever, stating in emotes that the door is wide open/they are oblivious to you with every emote.

or look closely at you, see some flaw they can't stand, and then let you go because it wouldn't work for them.

[HTX]

I don't see any reason why a rape plotline can't be replaced with a "savagely beating the shit out of" plotline instead. Why you gotta get killed?

Because a person who is a rapist may not be the same thing as a person who is someone who would beat the shit out of someone.

A small suspension of disbelief is a small price to pay to ensure players are not forced to RP situations that they find highly disturbing OOCly. At the very least, just RP a severe beating/torture and then conveniently let the victim escape before the actual sexual assault begins. Problem solved?

I think the current consent rule is perfect, and doesn't need to be made more lax nor more stringent.

[musashi]

I don't mind the whole don't rape without consent rule, but I think the justification of "Oh it will upset people who got raped IRL" is kind of weak sauce.

There are plenty of people who have been beaten and tortured IRL as well. Talk to a former POW. I assure you they went through their fair share of shit as well but do we care about protecting their precious feelings? No. Fuck them.

If you aren't emotionally stable enough to separate the fantasy of what happens in Armageddon from the reality of what happens in your life ... do not play the game.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Having said that, here is why I think the no consent no rape rule is a good idea: Playability.

Plain and simple. I am not interested in role-playing out graphic sexual content, so I can choose to fade.
If I were not interested in role-playing out graphic torture, then I could choose to fade.
If I were not interested in RP'ing the aftermath of a character who had both his arms cut off and his tongue and eye balls removed ... I could choose to have the character die instead and just go play a fresh concept.
And of course ... if I am not interested in role-playing the aftermath of being a rape victim, then I can choose to veto that idea, which may or may not result in the other PC escorting me to the mantis head for a fresh concept.

[Nyr]

I don't mind the whole don't rape without consent rule, but I think the justification of "Oh it will upset people who got raped IRL" is kind of weak sauce.

Indeed!  We should never be empathetic or take into account the feelings of people that have been in horrible real-world situations!  How dare we take an adult stance on this by making rules about it!  The unfortunate byproduct of these rules?  Those silly rape victims won't ever get to experience it again in Arm!  They're missing out!

There are plenty of people who have been beaten and tortured IRL as well. Talk to a former POW. I assure you they went through their fair share of shit as well but do we care about protecting their precious feelings? No. Fuck them.

Well said!  We should never be empathetic or take into account the feelings of people that have been in horrible real-world situations!  How dare we allow such hypothetical people to skip over having to at least "see" the grisly effects of such torture happen to a character that they may, in fact, be quite attached to!  As you say, screw 'em.

If you aren't emotionally stable enough to separate the fantasy of what happens in Armageddon from the reality of what happens in your life ... do not play the game.

Exactly!  If you get mad over losing a character, you probably should just quit the game and never play it again!  It's fantasy, it's just a game, don't feel bad over losing your character!  What are you, some kind of pansy?

All of the above was sarcasm, by the way.  Those aren't necessarily the word-for-word reasons we've made these rules on consent, but they do come into play.  Your opinions on the matter mentioned above may be exactly how you feel, but I don't think it's unexpected for a staff member to officially say that we don't care about your opinions about the consent rule. We on staff take a very hard line on these rules having to do with consent and if you break them, we will break you.

[Cowboy]

emot (raises his glass to ~nyr) Here, here! Well said.

[musashi]

Me point is, if you go the "oh but think of their RL experiences!!!!" route ... then the rules are pretty much saying: Rape victims are delicate flowers who need their feelings taken into account, former POW's and victims of prolonged domestic abuse as children can man up because the torture is happening to their PC whether they consent or not and I don't really care if you were actually locked in a dog cage for months and burned with a blow torch.

To me the rules have always seemed to be more about ensuring that people can enjoy playing their characters in the game, rather than starting an abuse victims' shelter.

And anyway, I didn't at any point say that I thought the consent rules shouldn't be there.

[Samoa]

I don't see any reason why a rape plotline can't be replaced with a "savagely beating the shit out of" plotline instead. Why you gotta get killed?

Because a person who is a rapist may not be the same thing as a person who is someone who would beat the shit out of someone.

A small suspension of disbelief is a small price to pay to ensure players are not forced to RP situations that they find highly disturbing OOCly. At the very least, just RP a severe beating/torture and then conveniently let the victim escape before the actual sexual assault begins. Problem solved?

I think the current consent rule is perfect, and doesn't need to be made more lax nor more stringent.

I straight up agree with the rape rule, but I *do not* agree with this statement. A character who is a rapist *may not necessarily be* a character who would beat someone. In fact, the character may be okay with raping someone, but would be horrified at the idea of beating someone -- and, in fact, the /player/ may also share this thought process. Asking a would-be rapist to automatically choose beating/torture as a 'viable alternative' is grotesquely unfair to that player and character. I think we have all been playing long enough to be able to come up with our own reasons not to do things in order to acquiesce with the rule.