What's with all of you and Mudsex?

[Kismetic]

I always assume I'm MUDsexing a dude, Chetta!  It would only bother me if I was pitching tents.  I tend to FTB a lot more after I RP it out once with somebody.  It's basically just Sex Ed after a point.  Most of us have done our fair share of knocking boots.


One time, during MUDsex, I typed mercy.  And it said, 'Mercy off.'

After MUDsex another time, I got annoyed because I thought I couldn't log out (like combat), and anticipated, ironically, "You are too excited to leave just yet!"


And like Forrest Gump, That's all I got to say about that!

[Is Friday]

OK, fine, if nobody else will, I'll actually post in defense of mudsex.

I'll be the first to admit that there are often many other more interesting things you can be doing, and *unquestionably* more interactive things you can be doing (since you can really only interact with two or three other people when you're mudsexing. .. what? three is viable..), but it can be a great tool for exploring a character's mindset and personalities.

This isn't what people really use it for, though.

[Barzalene]

OK, fine, if nobody else will, I'll actually post in defense of mudsex.

I'll be the first to admit that there are often many other more interesting things you can be doing, and *unquestionably* more interactive things you can be doing (since you can really only interact with two or three other people when you're mudsexing. .. what? three is viable..), but it can be a great tool for exploring a character's mindset and personalities.

This isn't what people really use it for, though.

It isn't?

[Kalai]

Stripping can be difficult and spammy, particularly if it's not intermixed with emotes (if you want to fade). It's weird to not have inventory space for your clothes. But when I play a Tuluki I want to show off my tattoos.  All of them. Ah the dilemma.

Fades tend to take me as long as the matter should, about. I'm a slow typer, apparently, and find it a bit awkward either way.   That's a bonus for them though! They take the right amount of time.

Tis interesting either way.

[Cutthroat]

I was thinking of posting an essay here, but I pretty much agree entirely with Samoa.

A few things I would add:

- Mudsex just takes so long sometimes, because sexual acts can be hard to describe tastefully without coming off as a jackass. I would prefer waiting for a long emote than seeing phrases like "hard dick" or "big boobs" in an emote, and I think you would too. Often sex is much easier to do IRL than it is in-game.

- The old "people just mudsex to masturbate" anti-mudsex argument is tired. There is a load of porn just a Google search away. Emotes take longer to type because it's harder to describe it. A true sign of one-handed typing is misspellings. Think about it: how many times will someone with one hand reach for that Backspace key if they hit the wrong letter?
(Edit: coincidentally, to fix a typo.)

- Many people that say they don't mudsex actually do... or, at the least, the few that say they don't mudsex, drown out a huge chunk of players that quietly do. This was proven when mudsex won a "how do you use apartments" poll on the GDB some time ago.

That's all I got to say about that, too. [/second gump]

[valeria]

• You can *kill the other person*. Could you IMAGINE how frustrating it'd be to bribe a whore to fuck someone so you could sneak in and murder them while they're naked, only to have them fade to black with their armour on and idle? ooc'ing, "could you remove your armour, please," seems rather out of place.

I think people might be more open to this than you might think.  Or at least I would.  I remember one time when my play time was getting tight and my character was fading a lot on her mate out of necessity, that I OOCed HIM if he ever wanted her to take her armor off to just let me know.

That said, I don't think that you're wrong or off base, and I am certainly not anti-mudsex.  I actually thought I was kind of defending mudsex in the appropriate context myself    Sometimes I don't fade, and it's with good reason.  But when you are down to playing every other day for about an hour or two hours, you realize that the time it takes to go into the whole thing is going to be ALL of your playing time, and even then you might have to log out in the middle.  So time constraints can be a real issue.

But personally, in terms of what I learn about my characters, that's more built into the seduction, the dirty talk, the strip tease, the context, whatever.  I don't know what more I could learn or they would show during the actual sexual act, except the sexual-act related stuff, and that can easily be accomplished with a fade emote (if consented to).

- Mudsex just takes so long sometimes, because sexual acts can be hard to describe tastefully without coming off as a jackass. I would prefer waiting for a long emote than seeing phrases like "hard dick" or "big boobs" in an emote, and I think you would too. Often sex is much easier to do IRL than it is in-game.

- The old "people just mudsex to masturbate" anti-mudsex argument is tired. There is a load of porn just a Google search away. Emotes take longer to type because it's harder to describe it. A true sign of one-handed typing is misspellings. Think about it: how many times will someone with one hand reach for that Backspace key if they hit the wrong letter?

QFT.  And a load of literotica if you're into that instead.

[SMuz]

• You can *kill the other person*. Could you IMAGINE how frustrating it'd be to bribe a whore to fuck someone so you could sneak in and murder them while they're naked, only to have them fade to black with their armour on and idle? ooc'ing, "could you remove your armour, please," seems rather out of place.

I think people might be more open to this than you might think.  Or at least I would.  I remember one time when my play time was getting tight and my character was fading a lot on her mate out of necessity, that I OOCed HIM if he ever wanted her to take her armor off to just let me know.

I used to do that too. I see any mudsex as potentially dangerous as following someone out into the middle of the desert, so removing armor is all a part of the roleplay. I even offer to sleep naked for them if it fits the situation. Been backstabbed sleeping naked with one char, it's not as fatal as you'd think.

Also, I've always wanted a serious RPG with a nude fighting scene. It sounds pretty epic to have a naked chick trying to backstab my gruff warrior, while he fumbles about for his sword and shield. A lot of fun with the bash/disarm emotes there too And if you do manage to kill/mortally wound them, all the blood covered damaged furniture would be fun to arrange.

[valeria]

I mean, it would be a little offputting to OOC for a fade and then see something like "Someone says OOCly: "Hey, could you take off your armor there?" "  But I think a lot of people would just roll with it.

[spicemustflow]

emote takes off the codpiece

[Akoto]

Nothin' wrong with the responsible (i.e. fully consented to) depiction of sexuality. Zalanthans live in a rough world with a set of morals generally alien to our own. What's more, many of them are pansexual, further expanding the options. I would personally see it as something done as much for recreation as procreation, given the difficult circumstances under which most people live.

Sexual role-play can be a healthy aspect of a character, even if you do not fade. Some of my most successful PCs have been prostitutes, and they had the benefit of interacting with society on all levels and knowing a great many people. There was, to an extent, a certain kind of power about it. That was a lot of fun. I even received a karma point while playing such a PC.

Also, to answer the earlier question, my experience is that the in-game bias against MUDsex is much lower than what's claimed on the message boards. Most PCs did not choose to fade when consent was requested.

[brytta.leofa]

Nothin' wrong with the responsible (i.e. fully consented to) depiction of sexuality. Zalanthans live in a rough world, except with sexual mores that are strikingly similar to secular Western norms.

ftfy

[titansfan]

Hmmm, I feel like an ass...kinda...not really....I don't ask for consent ALOT on bar scenes for swearing or talking sexually. Anytime something or someone gets naked though...I ask....just not for a bar scene or any other kind of party scene....Fale Orgies being the only exception...oh, and Sun Runner parties........and Magicker parties......and um, wild were-animal orgies.

P.S: Should I have asked consent before posting this?

[a strange shadow]

I don't think we need to ask consent for swearing or dirty talk, unless it's pornographically explicit or something.

I mean, generally, I consider ArmageddonMUD to be an R-rated game.

[Kismetic]

I mean, generally, I consider ArmageddonMUD to be an R-rated game.

Apparently, there are children who play this game.  Which rocks my mind.  If you're not 18, you should have a flag somewhere.  I mean, I know it would be jarring, but reasonably, an adult should be made aware of when they're interacting with a child.  Anyone under 18 in the United States is a child (juvenile, whatever, you're still a child in my eyes), by way of the law.

It's my only problem with MUDsex.

[Ktavialt]

Apparently, there are children who play this game.  Which rocks my mind.  If you're not 18, you should have a flag somewhere.  I mean, I know it would be jarring, but reasonably, an adult should be made aware of when they're interacting with a child.  Anyone under 18 in the United States is a child (juvenile, whatever, you're still a child in my eyes), by way of the law.

It's my only problem with MUDsex.

They are words on a screen.  Who cares?  I'd imagine that most people that MUDsex have less actual sex, so that technically its safer to have your teenager MUDsexing than not.  And, lets be realistic, if a kid is playing ANY mud they potentially have worse problems than that they figured out how to emote getting laid, i.e. failure in school b/c too busy mudding.

And if what happens on a MUD affects your way of thinking in real life, outside of becoming less productive which is unfortunately very common but pbviously not the concern of everybody here apparently, then maybe you/that kid should learn to crawl out of your crib a little more often.  Man up.

[Kismetic]

And if what happens on a MUD affects your way of thinking in real life, outside of becoming less productive which is unfortunately very common but pbviously not the concern of everybody here apparently, then maybe you/that kid should learn to crawl out of your crib a little more often.

I would not, in real life, strike up a sexually charged conversation with a teenage boy/girl, nor would I think it appropriate to act out or illustrate such a thing.  Was I having sex at 16?  Yes.  Was I exposed to sexual content in books and movies?  Yup.  My mother let me govern myself and my siblings, for the most part, because she knew I could handle it.  But that was her right, as a parent.

Man up.

Ssh.  Grown-ups are talking.

[FantasyWriter]

IMO, Armageddon is a Rated-R game.  Anything that goes beyond what you would see in a Rated-R movie requires consent.

[Samoa]

Apparently, there are children who play this game.  Which rocks my mind.  If you're not 18, you should have a flag somewhere.  I mean, I know it would be jarring, but reasonably, an adult should be made aware of when they're interacting with a child.  Anyone under 18 in the United States is a child (juvenile, whatever, you're still a child in my eyes), by way of the law.

It's my only problem with MUDsex.

They are words on a screen.  Who cares?  I'd imagine that most people that MUDsex have less actual sex, so that technically its safer to have your teenager MUDsexing than not. 

Interestingly, if you factored in every single other player of this game versus me, you would still be wrong in this.

We cannot argue about the consent rule -- the consent rule is the consent rule, and it is going *nowhere*. We *do* have underage players here, and it puts the legality of the game and its staff members at risk when they engage in certain activities. Do they probably still do so? Yes, but at least there was an attempt made.

Our game involves sex, drugs, cold-blooded murder, violent rape, and lots of other horrors. It is undoubtedly a rated-R game, but consent still needs to be asked. That's the law from on high.

[Kismetic]

We really don't have to hear about your sex lives, do we?  I'm pretty sure the fair majority of players have them, since they are presumably human.


Problem with consent, as it stands:

A minor's consent is worth how much, really?  All I'm pointing out is that it's worth thinking about.  Ktivakakattwhatever's response isn't even funny as a joke.  You can argue about parenting, or how innocuous words are (they are not), and whatever else will shed culpability from potential actions ...  I feel like I just beat a hornet's nest with a stick, though.

[Samoa]

We really don't have to hear about your sex lives, do we?  I'm pretty sure the fair majority of players have them, since they are presumably human.


Problem with consent, as it stands:

A minor's consent is worth how much, really?  All I'm pointing out is that it's worth thinking about.  Ktivakakattwhatever's response isn't even funny as a joke.  You can argue about parenting, or how innocuous words are (they are not), and whatever else will shed culpability from potential actions ...  I feel like I just beat a hornet's nest with a stick, though.

Well, there's two issues. There's asking for consent for every R-rated interaction because there might be minors, and there's asking for consent for the things you ask consent for, which is namely rape, sexual torture, or sex. As the helpfile says, "graphic situations." This has nothing to do with the age of the player.

Asking for consent before every R-rated situation seems a bit excessive and overzealous, however, if not even a bit disruptive to the game. When minors play this game, that's ostensibly their or their parents' choice and job to police that and what they might be exposed to by it, not yours.

[Kismetic]

When minors play this game, that's ostensibly their or their parents' choice and job to police that and what they might be exposed to by it, not yours.

I was waiting for that tired line.  I even prefaced its' futile use.  This is also about being responsible for one's own actions.

"Oh, I didn't know" is not an acceptable excuse.  "Oh, I didn't care" is not even excusable.

I'm going to shut up, though.  All I've heard is that I'm wrong for thinking so, and that disturbs me a little.

[Barzalene]

I don't know that you're wrong. I think it's complicated.

I think we play Arm because we like our game, which is not a sex mud, but where things are edgy, and dark. Where there is brutality and also expressions of things less brutal but just as grown up. I'm not talking about the things which require consent, but the things that walk that line, and almost require consent.

On the other hand, I certainly do not want to corrupt anyone's children.  However, if I wanted to play a game that was pg 13 I wouldn't be playing Arm.

How do you protect the hypothetical children and still maintain the game world?

[MeTekillot]

Code Select Expand



The tall, muscular man says, out-of-character:
     "Consent for sexual roleplay?"

The tressy-tressed maiden says, out-of-character:
     "hold on i have to ask my mom"

The tressy-tressed maiden says, out-of-character:
     "she said no :("


[Cutthroat]

There's nothing wrong with abstaining from mudsex (or since we're on the subject of consent, torture, etc) because the person on the other end might be a minor. No one that does this needs to "crawl out of a crib". That is what they're comfortable with.

There's also nothing wrong with assuming that the person on the other end is mature enough to handle a scene they just consented to. There's no need to be disturbed by a person willing to assume such.

How do you protect the hypothetical children and still maintain the game world?

Trust each other that we will make our decisions regarding consent based on what we're comfortable with. (Which we already do.)

[Samoa]

When minors play this game, that's ostensibly their or their parents' choice and job to police that and what they might be exposed to by it, not yours.

I was waiting for that tired line.  I even prefaced its' futile use.  This is also about being responsible for one's own actions.

"Oh, I didn't know" is not an acceptable excuse.  "Oh, I didn't care" is not even excusable.

I'm going to shut up, though.  All I've heard is that I'm wrong for thinking so, and that disturbs me a little.

I didn't say you were wrong. I said that I'm unwilling to compromise the integrity of the game in order to parent someone else's children. Even then, I don't know where you live in the United States, but 25% of kids have reported having sex by the age of 16, which means it's getting TALKED about far, FAR earlier. I wouldn't really worry about 'corrupting' them. If this concerns you so much, *don't engage in it*, but don't try to police other people engaging in it.