Elves and riding

[Taven]

i never understood the part about elves refusing to ride skimmers. seems sort of redundant to me. is it simply because skimmers are something that transports you when you sit on it?

It's easier to understand it like this: if an elf can't move over a certain distance on its own, then it's not worth attempting to travel that distance. For everything else, there's an elf's own body. (Except in exceptionally exceptional cases, which are so rare anyway.)

This makes complete logical sense to me, for anything over land. I don't get it with the Silt Sea. Is it that they don't want to rely on others at all? If so, why isn't it acceptable for them to build their own skimmer, and then go on it? It's not like there's any way of walking across silt.

I think elves should be able to run on the top of silt with the right footwear. 

Dude. I would totally buy those with even a non-elf PC. I'd also get eaten by a silt horror, but it would be AWESOME. That is all.

[spicemustflow]

All I really got to add is any of my tribal elves would kill the elf they seen riding a mount or in a wagon. They'd see it as you being a shame to the entire race and need to be put down for it in the most radical way. They'd hunt the elf down and destroy them for acting like a weak human that uses beasts of burden and not their own strength / legs.

Then all of your tribal elves are too extreme. To elves, riding is a shame and warrants ridicule shunning and exile, well, maybe even corporal punishment depending on the tribe but... shame to entire race? That's human thinking there.

[jhunter]

Dude. I would totally buy those with even a non-elf PC. I'd also get eaten by a silt horror, but it would be AWESOME. That is all.

Hahaha, I probably would too.

From account notes:
Keeps making Red Storm pcs, putting silt shoes on them and wandering the Silt Sea until they're eaten.

[a strange shadow]

Logic depends on perspective.

Elves have a different perspective than us. Just as an Indian might have a different perspective than a European way back in the colonial days.

That was, essentially, my point. Elven mindsets are completely logical to elves.

[Yam]

Hand-waving is rarely the route to good fiction.

[boog]

I can't believe this thread is 5 pages long.

[BlackMagic0]

All I really got to add is any of my tribal elves would kill the elf they seen riding a mount or in a wagon. They'd see it as you being a shame to the entire race and need to be put down for it in the most radical way. They'd hunt the elf down and destroy them for acting like a weak human that uses beasts of burden and not their own strength / legs.

Then all of your tribal elves are too extreme. To elves, riding is a shame and warrants ridicule shunning and exile, well, maybe even corporal punishment depending on the tribe but... shame to entire race? That's human thinking there.

No.  Not at all.  Humans tend to see weakness and wish to either help or take advantage of the weakling or pity the person. And nothing- not even sleeping with a breed/elf- is as shameful to a human as riding a mount is to a elf. The entire tribe or town are not going shun you, or see you as holding an extreme weakness forever. Just that your a sicko breed kanker.

Elves see riding a mount as a sign of the most extreme weakness, and no tribe needs a weak member that is useless. I see exile or execution being the only two ways a tribe of elves would deal with one of their own riding on a mount. All elven thinking against riding is extreme.

[jhunter]

I agree with BlackMagic0. Either exile or execution, IMO.

[Malifaxis]

It is becoming glaringly apparent to me as to why there are so few good elf players.

[X-D]

I was thinking the same thing.

[Mazy]

I think it's been made abundantly clear that elves don't ride. 'Nuff said.

[Marshmellow]

This is all moot, imho, because city elves shouldn't be outside the city without good reason, and because it's their job or whatnot often isn't good enough a reason.  If they do go outside, they should plan for doing it with the limitations they have.  Sometimes this means going it alone so that they don't have riders bitching at them.  Maybe it means not going so far, or being able to defend yourself alone, etc.

On the other hand, we have the Byn Sarges.  They shouldn't make the city elves go outside, if you ask me.  Oh, you might ask, "But what about outdoor missions?"  My answer is simple.  Don't bring them along on outdoor missions.  You know the elf won't be able to keep up with the mounts.  It's that simple.  You want discrimination?  Here you go.  This solution carries my stamp of approval, actually.

If people start avoiding the Byn with city elves, because it suddenly got harder to play one, I'm all for that too.  You want to play an elf?  Great, but play an elf, not a quick human that can also do elf stuff.  It's either with a tribe or alone, and both mean you have to distrust outsiders.  A tribeless city elf has nobody to trust, and they're going to go to the Byn for one?  I've nevr liked that answer because everyone should know that mercenaries can easily be bought, can't trust that to keep you safe.

[Synthesis]

I already wrote up and submitted 13 pages of changes to every general information document/help-file, to amend them such that they would allow city-elves to ride, and it was rejected.  At this point, I don't think there's any amount of bitching on the GDB that will change the staff's mind about the situation.  Good luck on your crusade, though.

[Majikal]

It is becoming glaringly apparent to me as to why there are so few good elf players.

Yup.

I'd just like to throw it in there that if you play an elf correctly, you feel like you are the most Zalanthan mofo around. For a truly gritty, cut-throat world of real hardasses I suggest we ban human, breed, dwarf, mul, half-giant for just a week and see how bloody the streets get.

[Is Friday]

It is becoming glaringly apparent to me as to why there are so few good elf players.

Yup.

I'd just like to throw it in there that if you play an elf correctly, you feel like you are the most Zalanthan mofo around. For a truly gritty, cut-throat world of real hardasses I suggest we ban human, breed, dwarf, mul, half-giant for just a week and see how bloody the streets get.

People would simply play humans with elf stats and mdescs. It already happens regularly.

[BleakOne]

I'm wth Mazy, we're beating a dead Kank now.

[Xeran Van Houten]

[Fathi]

I think elves should be able to run on the top of silt with the right footwear. 

This entire dumb thread was worthwhile if only for this post.

[maxid]

I think elves should be able to run on the top of silt with the right footwear. 

This entire dumb thread was worthwhile if only for this post.

QFT

[Nyr]

I'm not trying to us them as an example, I'm just pointing out the fact that there doesn't seem to be a baseline for enforcing the docs. If it's pick and choose it's not fair to people who want to try and be flexible in their play and bend the docs so that they can work on something that might be construed as a 'black sheep' but if docs have to be followed 100% you simply can't do it. Yet that frustrates players who see docs broken everyday in all sorts of instances.

Like I said I'm looking for a baseline, so that all of the docs are enforced, not just the ones that are deemed more important than others. I don't think we should put that kind of a factor on documentation. All of it should come together and be followed, not just some of it as we see fit as players. So it's either follow them or bend them, or just break them altogether by making an elf that tries to ride and get retired because that documentation 'rule' is at the top of the ladder and we all know that.

There is a baseline for enforcing the docs: staff.  When in doubt, ask staff.  If every one of your PCs is a "black sheep" according to the docs, you aren't playing Armageddon.  You're playing the exception to the rule just because you want to even if it doesn't make sense according to the documentation and staff.  It's more fun for you because you're playing something outside of the docs, but that's only because you have not grasped that playing something well WITHIN the documentation is far more difficult and interesting.

Furthermore, there are places in documentation where things are not as strict in some regards because the reactions to going against those documented strictures, social mores, and styles can be accommodated in-character.  However, within sponsored roles (and especially tribal roles), these strictures, social mores, and styles become more important; they very clearly define what your sponsored role IS to your character, your character's sponsored group (tribe, clan, whatever), and the rest of the world.  Around the edges there can be some leeway.  The core of the documentation for such clans, however, must be followed, for without it, you're just making up your own role as you go.  We've force-stored people for egregious displays of disregard for their clan's documentation before (don't fret, only after warnings or when the disregard was so blatant that it was ridiculous).  

There are some things in the world that are beyond documentation interpretation and are relatively simple to follow, and one of those things is racial documentation.  There generally aren't PCs in the world that will put your elf in any of the aforementioned hyperbolic and hypothetical situations; I can't name a time that occurred.  There generally aren't PCs in the world that will attempt to destroy your dwarf's perception of a focus to the point that he or she goes insane and explodes; I can't name a time that occurred, either.  It's fun to think about how far things could go, but until you find yourself in a situation where your elf has two broken legs and has to ride a mount in order to save his or her tribe, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[Niamh]

Following along with what Nyr said, city elves are called city elves for a reason.  This is why they can't be rangers, and why desert elves make fun of their weak legs and soft lifestyles.  Their tribes are within the walls of a city, and they don't travel much, if at all.  Most city elves never leave their city even once in their lives.