Stamina and You.

[jhunter]

This thread is going to be 10 pages of people disagreeing with you - maybe a few agreeing - hashing up the same arguments from all the other threads on stamina until people lose interest or it gets locked for spiraling into something about coded mudsex and stamina use.

Personally, as someone who has played a lot of active outdoors PCs, stamina regeneration has always felt fast. Even in sandstorms at mid sun. Especially if you have some shelter.

I count the majority of those posting agreeing that some change needs to be made actually. Dunno what thread you're looking at. Oh and if some of you are just posting here to argue with me because you have a personal issue with me don't bother. I won't be baited in. In fact, this will be my last post in the thread.

[roughneck]

Regening stamina in the desert is a pain in the ass but tents solve the problem.  I've played a human pc with below average endurance who often hunted/gathered on foot with a tent.  In many ways it was less impeding than waiting an enormous amount of time for a mount to regen stamina.

My only issue with how stamina works is in regards to desert elves.  Make their stamina depleted the same as other races and mounts but give them much more of it instead of the way it is now.  Currently a delf can run nearly as far as a mount but regen in a fraction of the time.  Makes no sense.  But I doubt that will change.

Really I hate waiting for tired mounts more than anything else.

[Taven]

I don't see huge issues with the stamina regain, although it can feel like you're sitting around sometimes. The trick is to find something to do while you wait, such as Way someone or get into an internal dialogue with the think command. That said, I would support a very slow regain of stamina when standing. Especially if you're in the city, or something. I think that not regaining stamina while hiding and standing is a good idea.

[Synthesis]

Synthesis please come explain glycogen and ATP and all that stuff.

Well, I mean...your liver stores enough glycogen to keep you going for 12-24 hours, at least.  Then you've got proteolysis and lipolysis...assuming you stay hydrated, it takes a fairly long time to get a human being so energy-depleted that they literally can't move.  In that sense, the current system is kind of silly.

Ideally, you'd (rarely) go below 1 stamina (maybe when you've become dehydrated, and of course when you're poisoned with grishen), but your movement timer would start getting longer and longer and longer and longer as you lost stamina.  Long enough to where it would take a solid 15 seconds or so to trudge through an outdoor room at 1 stamina.

Additionally, skill checks should suffer much harsher penalties at low stamina levels, to reflect the relative state of exhaustion.  (It seems like penalties already apply, but they're not awful.)

The system would make much more sense with a within-room grid system and weather/equipment/race/stat/hunger/thirst/stamina-based movement speeds, but it really doesn't bother me that much.

[Drayab]

While such a detailed system would be really cool, I am actually pretty content with the status quo. Sometimes KISS is best.

But I still want standing regen. 

[drunkendwarf]

But I still want standing regen. 

+1

[KankWhisperer]

Standing Regen makes sense. I mean it probably is not going to work in the desert very well anyway because when it is not regenning when you are  RESTING, I doubt it will do anything while standing.

My pet peeve is how adding +move equipment will actually make you seem to regen slower. You reach a certain level of moves, you actually reach some % thresh hold easier and then regen is much slower.
If my character was naked it would walk and rest and regain its stamina in a blinding sandstorm in the middle of the salt flats or other hot location. It wears its full desert kit and at the same environment at the same literal number of move points, it will take FOREVER to regen. Maybe this is just my imagination, coded change that went into place when I got my equipment or coincidence.

[Gunnerblaster]

I vote Yes to a Standing Regen.

Limitations are that they aren't doing anything. At all. Besides just standing there.

If you're attempting to hide - No Regen.

[SMuz]

IMO, stamina already regens too fast, but a standing stamina regen makes sense.

Maybe make it that stamina stand regens if it's above 70% of the current capacity. And change it so that if it's below 30%, the only way you could regen it is by sleeping. That way, if you push yourself to a point where you're literally nearly unable to move, you'd really need some time off to recover.

And then make them sore (-HP) if they've walked until they can no longer stand and sleep it off the whole night, though not to the point where they can die out of being sore

Also considering what Is Friday said about food, heavy stamina usage should also make you hungrier and thirstier. Which also covers in for the ridiculous profits one can make from sid and salt mining. If it cuts into mining profits too much with that 30% stamina change, then drop stamina loss for mining to around 5-7. It's more profitable for raiders and thieves too, because they'd find miners lying around everywhere the sleep off the weariness.

Realism FTW.

[Gunnerblaster]

IMO, stamina already regens too fast, but a standing stamina regen makes sense.

Maybe make it that stamina stand regens if it's above 70% of the current capacity. And change it so that if it's below 30%, the only way you could regen it is by sleeping. That way, if you push yourself to a point where you're literally nearly unable to move, you'd really need some time off to recover.

And then make them sore (-HP) if they've walked until they can no longer stand and sleep it off the whole night, though not to the point where they can die out of being sore

Also considering what Is Friday said about food, heavy stamina usage should also make you hungrier and thirstier. Which also covers in for the ridiculous profits one can make from sid and salt mining. If it cuts into mining profits too much with that 30% stamina change, then drop stamina loss for mining to around 5-7. It's more profitable for raiders and thieves too, because they'd find miners lying around everywhere the sleep off the weariness.

Realism FTW.

You lost me at forced sleep.

Since you can't force-wake yourself unless attacked and/or otherwise awoken by another - I see this more damaging to the fun factor in this game.

In the end, entertainment trumps realism. It is, afterall, a fantasy roleplay. Make it too realistic and it'll just become frustrating.

I have been in situations where I have just barely survived by a few scant stamina. Did I emote dropping over from exhaustion, when safe? Yes. Laying down and going to sleep in the desert has never struck me as a very intelligible thing - Like trying to go to sleep in a snow storm.

[SMuz]

Well, remove the bit where they can't wake up. I think I read somewhere that no matter how deeply you sleep, if you feel that your life may be threatened, you won't be in an unwakeable sleep.

[Gunnerblaster]

Well, remove the bit where they can't wake up. I think I read somewhere that no matter how deeply you sleep, if you feel that your life may be threatened, you won't be in an unwakeable sleep.

When attacked, you wake up automatically unless you were forcefully knocked unconscious. Otherwise, you can't wake up until your stamina is at 85% of it's max, which is pretty stupid...

[SMuz]

Well, remove the bit where they can't wake up. I think I read somewhere that no matter how deeply you sleep, if you feel that your life may be threatened, you won't be in an unwakeable sleep.

When attacked, you wake up automatically unless you were forcefully knocked unconscious. Otherwise, you can't wake up until your stamina is at 85% of it's max, which is pretty stupid...

I meant IRL. I think even if most people were passed out in a desert, they should be able to wake up if they were scared enough to not enter a deep sleep.

[solera]

IMO, stamina already regens too fast, but a standing stamina regen makes sense.

Maybe make it that stamina stand regens if it's above 70% of the current capacity. And change it so that if it's below 30%, the only way you could regen it is by sleeping. That way, if you push yourself to a point where you're literally nearly unable to move, you'd really need some time off to recover.

And then make them sore (-HP) if they've walked until they can no longer stand and sleep it off the whole night, though not to the point where they can die out of being sore

Also considering what Is Friday said about food, heavy stamina usage should also make you hungrier and thirstier. Which also covers in for the ridiculous profits one can make from sid and salt mining. If it cuts into mining profits too much with that 30% stamina change, then drop stamina loss for mining to around 5-7. It's more profitable for raiders and thieves too, because they'd find miners lying around everywhere the sleep off the weariness.

Realism FTW.

I've always felt this is the way it should be.  Or at least have stamina regen acting like hp regen.

[Dalmeth]

The only problem with the current stamina regeneration system is the game-stopping nature of regenerating stamina.

Stamina is still limited in a fashion more in line with the old hack and slash systems of old : a character with X stamina can move Y distance before it is no longer able to evade.  Regaining stamina is meant to be an active process, whereby you are specifically out of combat while regenerating stamina.  However, now we have a world where sitting every five minutes doesn't look too good, no matter its benefits.   We can't pace ourselves, and we don't get any bonus for taking it easy.  So we have it that no one except desert elves moves on foot, and their advantages approach the absurd.

There are several solutions, one being a low-level constantly available stamina regeneration bound by the idea that it shouldn't really be helpful while the PC's resources are in demand.  Two options for such an implementation would be either disabling passive regeneration for a certain amount of time after a stamina-draining activity, or creating a fourth state of rest in addition to sitting, resting, and sleeping whereby a PC can start regenerating stamina while remaining more ready to act than either of those previous states allow, essentially a standing rest state.   The latter conforms to the old method of doing things, whereby the player is encouraged toward constant activity and can be a hindrance to those players who don't want to work quite that hard at playing the game.  The former has more balance concerns, such as whether passive regeneration while hidden should work.  Essentially, a ranger that regenerates stamina while hidden can attack and evade a pursuing warrior indefinitely without consequence.  Such consequences might not be might not be immediately noticeable in day to day play, but that is because we have molded our play around them.

[Yam]

I don't know what you're talking about. What is wrong with sitting down while trekking through the wilderness? I often sit on hikes. Sometimes there are even comfy rocks. Sometimes I lay out and stretch and eat some nuts.


Here is a coded example that you can follow:

Code Select Expand

sit (shouldering off his backpack and popping a squat)

say (squinting out at the scrub beyond) Ayup.




Here is an illustration of what I'm suggesting:

[Synthesis]

Yeah, when I'm playing an outdoorsy mount-riding type, I almost always stop and rest the mount when it gets "winded," just in case I have to haul ass later.  These are the things that will keep you alive.

[Celest]

My only issue with stamina is that riding a mount doesn't codedly regenerate the PCs stamina, even though you're sitting and doing nothing else exhausting.

[Yam]

My only issue with stamina is that riding a mount doesn't codedly regenerate the PCs stamina, even though you're sitting and doing nothing else exhausting.

Have you never ridden in real life? It's exhausting.

[Feco]

My only issue with stamina is that riding a mount doesn't codedly regenerate the PCs stamina, even though you're sitting and doing nothing else exhausting.

Have you never ridden in real life? It's exhausting.

Very, very, very exhausting.  I'm glad in some places it actually drains stamina to ride.  For playability, though, I like that it just kills stam regen in most places.

[maxid]

Synth's system with the excess timers/penalties is a really really neat idea, and I'd play it in a heartbeat. 

But, I don't think it would be easy to implement, and might end up being more trouble than it was worth.  In any case, yeah the stamina system we have right now is kinda dumb for the previously stated reasons but in the end, it's a game, it won't be 100% realistic at all times, and this is the system we have.  I'd love to have a low standing regen, but then autofleeing game would be even more annoying to catch.

[SMuz]

IMO, I'd be fine if stamina were just changed to act just like HP, without sleep being necessary to recover. And maybe something like if you reach 0 stamina you can't stand up. But you'd still be able to wake from sleep, without having to wait for the 80% stamina thing.

[Chettaman]

I like the idea of extremely slow regen while standing but instead of it giving alot of stam back make it stop at half of your max.
Faster regen I'm not so sure about. Trust me. Desert weather must be almost unbearable. I say this and I havn't even been in a real desert. Just a small one. PS: maybe there -is- faster regen. No one takes the time or chances to find out, though. Just saying.
How come no one's said anything about slower movement at 0 stamina?

Code Select Expand

Health 35 Stun 115 Stamina 0
> east (15 seconds later)
You force yourself to move east.

The desert
Oh yeah. Lots of sand in this room.

>east (15 seconds later)
You force yourself to move east.

The desert
More sand. Long way to go.

>east (15 seconds later)
You stumble and fall on your face.

[Morgenes]

It was mentioned before, but I think it should just be an instant off. More like a gradual decrease on all speed (combat, foraging, movement, etc.) anywhere below like 30% stamina. The further down to zero, the slower you go.

[Gunnerblaster]

I'd love to still be able to move at 0 Stamina.

Make it have a delay and like walking drunk. A chance to fall on your face and just lay there. If it takes more Stamina than you have to move from one area to another - You should get a delay before you move and a delay afterwards, with a chance to fall over, in between.