Allanaki Fashion

[Semper]

I've been reading the documentation again lately, and I've once more been impressed with the information we have available regarding clothing in Zalanthas.

What I've noticed though, is that often, the documentation regarding clothing and fashion is not the same as clothing and fashion followed by PCs in game. What might be provocative and risque by the documentation gets almost no reaction from PCs in game. One of the most prominent examples is Allanaki commoners wearing silk. Even GMH family members should likely follow some form of Allanaki fashion, but the common theme is apparently silk, silk, and more silk.

The different styles of clothing available to PCs I think also has an impact on this. Some clothing just doesn't seem appropriate to be found too frequently in Allanak, but the availability of it, as well as the cost, seems to promote the bending of "tradition". Thick, one-layered leather coats, or pieces of clothing so revealing not even a 'nakki whore would wear...

I'm probably nit-picking a bit in order to make a point, but do other players notice such things? What could be done to change player perception if it is a little off from documentation? Does it even matter versus playability?

[Marauder Moe]

Eh.  I think you can find examples of documented fashion done right just as easily as you can find examples of it done wrong.

Also, there should be a distinction between independent commoners and GMH/noble employed commoners.  Most nobles would be quite happy with their (mid-senior level) aides going about decked out in silks and finery.  What is says about them is "I'm so rich and important that even my servants are swathed in silks!"  But the fact that house employees make up a disproportionate section of the playerbase could make it seem like silk is all the rage among commoners.

[Semper]

Eh.  I think you can find examples of documented fashion done right just as easily as you can find examples of it done wrong.

Also, there should be a distinction between independent commoners and GMH/noble employed commoners.  Most nobles would be quite happy with their (mid-senior level) aides going about decked out in silks and finery.  What is says about them is "I'm so rich and important that even my servants are swathed in silks!"  But the fact that house employees make up a disproportionate section of the playerbase could make it seem like silk is all the rage among commoners.

The thing is, Allanak is all about visible distinctions. There's no way a noble would allow a commoner come even remotely close to looking like another noble. Some silk in the hair, or in the lacing of an aide's skirt would be allowable, but allowing them to wear a silk dress from head to toe would be taboo...

That's the difference between Tuluk and Allanak culture, and I think the most apparent way to see those differences is in fashion, and how each city-state interprets it. In Tuluk, sure commoners and nobles both wear silk, but there's much more finer differences (in tattoos, for example) that distinguishes Chosen from Commoner. This is almost the opposite in Allanak. It would be humiliating for a noble to be seen dressed even remotely like a commoner, and a commoner dressed as a noble would be suicidal in most cases.

I guess players may be mistaken about what Allanak tradition is. Would fleshing that out more perhaps improve Allanaki fashion as well?

[Barzalene]

I also wish the shop selections better reflected the fashion guidelines.

[Semper]

Eh.  I think you can find examples of documented fashion done right just as easily as you can find examples of it done wrong.

Also, there should be a distinction between independent commoners and GMH/noble employed commoners.  Most nobles would be quite happy with their (mid-senior level) aides going about decked out in silks and finery.  What is says about them is "I'm so rich and important that even my servants are swathed in silks!"  But the fact that house employees make up a disproportionate section of the playerbase could make it seem like silk is all the rage among commoners.

Noble livery is nearly always silk, while house employee attire is usually sewn of lesser fabric. The notable exception to this custom would be in the case of a concubine, consort or sometimes even pleasure slave. Often, a lord or lady will dress these very personal servants in silks and jewels as a display of their noble benefactor's power and wealth. Placing a guard or other lower servant in silk might lead to confusion about status and place and is rarely done except for the most formal of occasion.

Concubines and pleasure slaves are not "aides", and having an aide dressed like one would be something of ridicule for the noble... In general, I think a good habit for anyone to make is checking with a reliable source before posting.

[Wasteland Raider]

There are fashion police in game in Allanak. Perhaps they just haven't seen the person in question.

[Salt Merchant]

Part of the problem with clothing is that the sole criterion for how wealthy a garment makes one appear is material.

Quality of tailoring should be apparent as well (as an actual coded parameter, rather than the present unsystematic descriptions), especially for those with an eye for such things (value skill, clothworking skill).

Great gobs of money could be spent at tailors to ensure that a garment is a perfect fit. Nobles would have such clothes. Commoners, even in silk, might find their clothes to be ill-fitting or at least not quite right.

Also, if clothes would fray a little over time, a commoner might quickly start to look a little shabby in silk he/she couldn't afford to replace regularly. Whereas a noble would have new clothes for each season.

[valeria]

I had a character who repeatedly rolled her eyes and snickered behind the backs of people wearing silk that shouldn't have been, or wore clothes which were way too revealing, in Allanak.  And characters who have started rumors about how Silky must be sleeping with so-and-so for them to deck them out in such frippery.  I've also had commoner characters who absolutely refuse to deck themselves out in silk unless an employer requires it.  Actually--this is the majority of my commoners.  I think fine linens are underrated.

So yes.  People do notice and care when people don't follow the fashion documentation in game.  You might not notice people having overt IC reactions about this to peoples' faces, but it does happen, and I've seen it a lot.

[My 2 sids]

I also wish the shop selections better reflected the fashion guidelines.

This is perhaps the best answer to the question.  Most PCs want to shop and they want to shop *now*. 

But, the thread's point hasn't been lost on me.   Fighting traditions is one where I've witnessed first hand a Sargent or others have harshly chastised a new recruit for fighting with a style which, by documentation standards, should be commonplace for the area.

[Armaddict]

Probably because it's a little weird to say "How dare you wear silk in my presence!" or "You're wearing silk.  What a tool."

Edited to add:

And characters who have started rumors about how Silky must be sleeping with so-and-so for them to deck them out in such frippery.

As long as so-and-so isn't going to have you killed for tarnishing their name.

[My 2 sids]

Part of the problem with clothing is that the sole criterion for how wealthy a garment makes one appear is material.

Quality of tailoring should be apparent as well (as an actual coded parameter, rather than the present unsystematic descriptions), especially for those with an eye for such things (value skill, clothworking skill).

Great gobs of money could be spent at tailors to ensure that a garment is a perfect fit. Nobles would have such clothes. Commoners, even in silk, might find their clothes to be ill-fitting or at least not quite right.

Also, if clothes would fray a little over time, a commoner might quickly start to look a little shabby in silk he/she couldn't afford to replace regularly. Whereas a noble would have new clothes for each season.

True.  Although items bought at Target may follow the same style or cloth (cotton, for example) as clothes/furniture/whatever from a high-end store,  in the end one can always tell small differences.

[Barzalene]

Under-appreciated,in my opinion, are the silk TRIMMED garments, perfect for the highly placed who know their place.

[Armaddict]

Under-appreciated,in my opinion, are the silk TRIMMED garments, perfect for the highly placed who know their place.

Good post!

[Fredd]

It should be noted that yes, there ARE reactions to pc's wearing silks in game.

I've been told on a couple differant pc's I was dressed above my station. There arguements back was usually on the line of "I'm rich bitch"


edit: it also stands to be said that saying such ended badly for me on a pc old enough for me to talk about.

Mugged and left in an alley. Just goes to show. Wear silks, get robbed.

[HammerofJericho]

I've purposefully wore silks with some lowly characters to show a sort of rebellious nature. And honestly, I got no true overt reaction over it. All depends on the prominent PC's in the city-state at the time. For example, Joe Schmoe Tor could hate anything lower than him wearing silks while Yippy Dippy Fale could give no crae to the topic. This depends on a lot of things really since the PC population is really the only ones who make the actions apparent.

You could always put NPC's looking at you funny in your emotes and such, that would be vastly amazing in my opinion.

[Niamh]

Silk is very much a symbol of status in Allanak, and just because you have money does not make you important.  I am all for those people who are important (high ranking city/noble House employees, GMH family members, nobles, templars) raising a stink about nobody commoners who have the gall to flaunt a bunch of fancy silks and jewelry around town.  If you hang around the Gaj decked out in silks, you should be prepared to deal with getting your fancy duds spilled on, barfed on, or otherwise soiled in some way by the filthy environment.  And remember, just because you can afford to deck yourself out in silk does not mean that you should.  Fully expect to be given a hard time for it if you are nobody of importance.  If you are a gemmer and you dare to wear silk, you should expect to be treated even more poorly than usual, and to end up with nobility and/or templars pissed off by your presumption.

It's also a social faux pas to show skin in Allanak unless you are a whore or concubine.  You should expect to be mistaken for a whore if you wear any sort of revealing clothing, including low-cut tops.  Even the poorest of the poor will cover up as much of their bodies as possible with whatever they can, and generally only show skin because their clothes are falling apart and they can't afford to fix them or get new ones.

[HavokBlue]

Part of the problem with clothing is that the sole criterion for how wealthy a garment makes one appear is material.

Quality of tailoring should be apparent as well (as an actual coded parameter, rather than the present unsystematic descriptions), especially for those with an eye for such things (value skill, clothworking skill).

Great gobs of money could be spent at tailors to ensure that a garment is a perfect fit. Nobles would have such clothes. Commoners, even in silk, might find their clothes to be ill-fitting or at least not quite right.

Also, if clothes would fray a little over time, a commoner might quickly start to look a little shabby in silk he/she couldn't afford to replace regularly. Whereas a noble would have new clothes for each season.

This is represented, in-game, so an extent. You can find very cheap, secondhand/poor quality silk items amongst commoners.

[boog]

Quit dressing like whores, damn you! If you want to play the slender, buxom woman and wear nice, risque things, play somewhere other than Allanak!

Bwahahah. The Highlord casts a shadow because he does not want to see skin!

[Niamh]

Realistically, you can't really be slender and buxom at the same time.  Women who naturally have large breasts and well padded hips are also well padded in the stomach, and commonly the legs and arms.  Women who are slender tend to naturally have smaller curves, so calling a woman any combination of those two together is an oxymoron.  You can't count on today's images of women from Victoria's Secret and Hollywood (or Barbie - *gag*) to see realistic portrayals of women, because all of those women are either plasticked up or airbrushed, or both.  If you want to see more realistic images of women, look to the portrayals in artwork from the Renaissance era.

/derail

[Titania]

Does this count for men as well.

And, show as little skin as possible but SHOW ALL OF YOUR FACE!!!

[boog]

Realistically, you can't really be slender and buxom at the same time.  Women who naturally have large breasts and well padded hips are also well padded in the stomach, and commonly the legs and arms.  Women who are slender tend to naturally have smaller curves, so calling a woman any combination of those two together is an oxymoron.  You can't count on today's images of women from Victoria's Secret and Hollywood (or Barbie - *gag*) to see realistic portrayals of women, because all of those women are either plasticked up or airbrushed, or both.  If you want to see more realistic images of women, look to the portrayals in artwork from the Renaissance era.

/derail

I was totally teasing! <3 I just giggle when I see "slender and with large mounds of breasts" because I think to myself, "Gurth fat injections?"

[Lizzie]

...It's also a social faux pas to show skin in Allanak unless you are a whore or concubine.  You should expect to be mistaken for a whore if you wear any sort of revealing clothing, including low-cut tops.  Even the poorest of the poor will cover up as much of their bodies as possible with whatever they can, and generally only show skin because their clothes are falling apart and they can't afford to fix them or get new ones.

...unless you're a Fale, in which case it is expected you will show up in the most scandalous attire you can find, intentionally to be scandalous. Or a Kadian, because you own the store and you'll wear whatever you damned well please (assuming your character has the personality that can get away with that excuse).

[My 2 sids]

The Highlord casts a shadow because he does not want to see skin!

awsome  

[HavokBlue]

Realistically, you can't really be slender and buxom at the same time.  Women who naturally have large breasts and well padded hips are also well padded in the stomach, and commonly the legs and arms.  Women who are slender tend to naturally have smaller curves, so calling a woman any combination of those two together is an oxymoron.  You can't count on today's images of women from Victoria's Secret and Hollywood (or Barbie - *gag*) to see realistic portrayals of women, because all of those women are either plasticked up or airbrushed, or both.  If you want to see more realistic images of women, look to the portrayals in artwork from the Renaissance era.

/derail

Those aren't particularly realistic either.  Instead of emphasizing the breasts and hips, they got swollen early-pregnancy stomachs.

It would be cool to see more of the ridiculously extravagant and elaborate costumes for the nobility described in the docs.

[Sam]

More often than not, PCs are wearing it. One thing I have noticed is... If the one wearing it isn't using it to RP, others assume it is because they don't want to RP it, or it just doesn't get noticed.

RP your own awesomness and uncomfortableness, other will follow.