Allanaki Fashion

[boog]

More often than not, PCs are wearing it. One thing I have noticed is... If the one wearing it isn't using it to RP, others assume it is because they don't want to RP it, or it just doesn't get noticed.

RP your own awesomness and uncomfortableness, other will follow.

I remember a person played getting a boner and being uncomfortable while viewing a pair of Kadian gals at a public event one time in silks and ... it was the best thing I've ever seen.

[Cindy42]

are elves of some sort allowed to dress as scimply as they want?

[Semper]

are elves of some sort allowed to dress as scimply as they want?

Would be nice to define what "some sort" of elf you're talking about... though I suspect most proper 'nakki elves would still follow the fashion as anyone else, if simply to blend in. That's a good point though. I don't see other races sticking to the traditional 'nakki attire unless it was required or for other beneficial reasons of their own. They might get ridiculed/discriminated even more than a human would if they didn't, however...

[Potaje]

are elves of some sort allowed to dress as scimply as they want?

Would be nice to define what "some sort" of elf you're talking about... though I suspect most proper 'nakki elves would still follow the fashion as anyone else, if simply to blend in. That's a good point though. I don't see other races sticking to the traditional 'nakki attire unless it was required or for other beneficial reasons of their own. They might get ridiculed/discriminated even more than a human would if they didn't, however...

I would think that -c-elves- would hold some aspects, or adopt those aspect or attire indicative of their homes. Just because society treats them different, the highlord/ Muk -Utep, still offers them a place of relative safefty from the harsh world beyond, and his Laws serve them as well. So why would they not have an adoration towards clothing styles that scream - I belong here-.

[Cindy42]

aww.

but i wanna dress like a slut!

i would have assumed that nak allows for a sort of, Spartacus-style air about it, but, eh, i guess not. thankfully i saw this first before i did something awful.

[Spice Spice Baby]

I also wish the shop selections better reflected the fashion guidelines.

Ditto.

I also wish there were more commoner-level clothing shops, period. There's tribal shit, frilly silky jewely shit, filthy 'Rinth shit, and not nearly as much simple, comfortable peasant wear as I would like.

I would dress 90% of my characters in drab but sturdy leather, sandcloth, and linen if it didn't mean wearing the same items over and over again.

[Potaje]

I also wish the shop selections better reflected the fashion guidelines.

Ditto.

I also wish there were more commoner-level clothing shops, period. There's tribal shit, frilly silky jewely shit, filthy 'Rinth shit, and not nearly as much simple, comfortable peasant wear as I would like.

I would dress 90% of my characters in drab but sturdy leather, sandcloth, and linen if it didn't mean wearing the same items over and over again.

There are, you just have to look around a bit more.

[Niamh]

...unless you're a Fale, in which case it is expected you will show up in the most scandalous attire you can find, intentionally to be scandalous. Or a Kadian, because you own the store and you'll wear whatever you damned well please (assuming your character has the personality that can get away with that excuse).

This is incorrect.  

As a Fale you can get away with it because you're a Fale, but it's still scandalous and out of the norm.

As a Kadian, you are at the pinnacle of fashion and you should be setting an example of the fashion of the area you're working in, or you should expect to get looks, or be ridiculed.

[Niamh]

I also wish the shop selections better reflected the fashion guidelines.

Ditto.

I also wish there were more commoner-level clothing shops, period. There's tribal shit, frilly silky jewely shit, filthy 'Rinth shit, and not nearly as much simple, comfortable peasant wear as I would like.

I would dress 90% of my characters in drab but sturdy leather, sandcloth, and linen if it didn't mean wearing the same items over and over again.

Part of the reason why there is so much in the Kadian shops that don't better reflect fashion guidelines is because PCs craft clothing that doesn't meet those guidelines, and sell them to Kadian shops.  Quite often, in fact.

[Niamh]

i would have assumed that nak allows for a sort of, Spartacus-style air about it, but, eh, i guess not. thankfully i saw this first before i did something awful.

This is one of those reasons why it's important to read and familiarize yourself with the documentation.

[Spice Spice Baby]

I also wish the shop selections better reflected the fashion guidelines.

Ditto.

I also wish there were more commoner-level clothing shops, period. There's tribal shit, frilly silky jewely shit, filthy 'Rinth shit, and not nearly as much simple, comfortable peasant wear as I would like.

I would dress 90% of my characters in drab but sturdy leather, sandcloth, and linen if it didn't mean wearing the same items over and over again.

Part of the reason why there is so much in the Kadian shops that don't better reflect fashion guidelines is because PCs craft clothing that doesn't meet those guidelines, and sell them to Kadian shops.  Quite often, in fact.

To clarify, I didn't actually mean the Kadian shops, since they're gonna be geared more toward fancier stuff than the average commoner could afford anyhow.

I meant more the independent merchants in the Allanaki and Tuluki bazaars. There's only a couple in each city that I can think of that sell "normal" commoner clothing that isn't armour.

Basically, I just wish there was a broader spectrum of apparel between low-end Kadius and filthy 'Rinth clothes, since it seems to me that most commoners wouldn't wear Kadian clothing to work in. Stuff more like the ubiquitous PC-craftable Red Storm Sancloth Set.

Hope that makes more sense.

[Semper]

... Basically, I just wish there was a broader spectrum of apparel between low-end Kadius and filthy 'Rinth clothes, since it seems to me that most commoners wouldn't wear Kadian clothing to work in. Stuff more like the ubiquitous PC-craftable Red Storm Sancloth Set.

Hope that makes more sense.

While I agree somewhat, I still think lower-end Kadian shops would still dominate the market in commoner wear. Any really successful independent clothing shops would likely get pushed out of the market or just bought by Kadius. Kadius is like the modern day equivalent of the brand name clothes, while the independent places would be like TJ-Max or Walmart.

I could see the bottom crust of citizens wearing drab, non-stylish clothing, but most commoners would still seek to buy Kadian products in a society where image could be everything...

It is rather unfortunate the Kadian shops end up with a lot of the simple craftable bits of clothing after a while. Perhaps make it so only Kadian crafters can sell to the shop, and independent crafters would have to rely on independent shops to trade with? That would seem more realistic, ideally. That way what gets sold to the commoners can be monitored by Kadians, and it'll be even more important for aspiring crafters to want to join the House as employees.

[Lizzie]

Kadius in Allanak buys things -into- their "commoner stuff" shop, that Kadius would be criticized by the culture-mongers for selling in their "commoner stuff" shop. That tells me there are a couple of possible things going on:

Possibility #1: Kadius is exempt from the culture-mongers, because if they weren't, someone would have ordered them to stop buying and selling those inappropriate things in their commoner stuff shop, and the seniors would have instructed the NPC merchants to stop buying and selling those inappropriate things.

Possibility #2: It is completely an OOC thing that the shops buy and sell all these things, and unfortunately, new players or players who are new to Allanak, will see an OOC example set, that is completely contrary to the documentation.

My suggestion: have the Kadian merchant NPCs stop buying and selling things that are inappropriate. OR, change the docs to reflect that since they are Kadians, the don't really have to give a damn what the general consensus says about what is inappropriate. OR, start paying out half of what they're currently paying, for styles not acceptable in commoner allanak fashion, and charge double what they're currently charging.

Example (can't recall an exact item but this is a hypothetical): a pair of red and white silk sleeves. Obviously northern design, intended for wealthier, more influential tuluk commoners or nobles. You sell it in the "commoner stuff" shop for 300 sids, it sells for 1200 sids. Except now, because it is inappropriate, and the NPC merchant has been criticized for daring to even have it in his shop, he will only pay you 150 sids to buy it from you. And if you wanted to buy it from him, he'd offer it for 2400 sids.

[Sam]

I agree with Lizzie up until the doubling the end amount. They are still in it to make money. Seems like they are pricing themselves out of every market that way.

I really liked the idea that Kadius stops buying from independent stitchers.

[Niamh]

Possibility #2: It is completely an OOC thing that the shops buy and sell all these things, and unfortunately, new players or players who are new to Allanak, will see an OOC example set, that is completely contrary to the documentation.

This is why the shops buy what they buy.  There is code that specifies what types of objects an NPC merchant buys (clothing, armor, weapons, for example), but there is nothing to distinguish between northern and southern styles.  It's a possibility that we may be able to work out some kind of change in code to determine further subcategories and whether or not the merchant will purchase them, but that is not a guarantee.  Until then, we rely on the playerbase to roleplay responsibly and within documentation.

[Semper]

Possibility #2: It is completely an OOC thing that the shops buy and sell all these things, and unfortunately, new players or players who are new to Allanak, will see an OOC example set, that is completely contrary to the documentation.

This is why the shops buy what they buy.  There is code that specifies what types of objects an NPC merchant buys (clothing, armor, weapons, for example), but there is nothing to distinguish between northern and southern styles.  It's a possibility that we may be able to work out some kind of change in code to determine further subcategories and whether or not the merchant will purchase them, but that is not a guarantee.  Until then, we rely on the playerbase to roleplay responsibly and within documentation.

Would it be possible then to allow only clanned GMH employees to sell to GMH shops? That way what's sold by the shops could be monitored more closely. Since there are independent shops that buy as well, non-employees can sell there, and it would make being a GMH employee more valuable (more competition to join one) for the playerbase.

[Sakra]

I recently saw someone in authority berate a dirty commoner for wearing clashing clothes. It was awesome.
Kudos.

[Barzalene]

Please tell me that when you say clashing, you do not refer to color coordination!

[maxid]

The dainty, foppish Fale exclaims, before fainting "White after Luirsfest?! My word!"

[Lizzie]

Possibility #2: It is completely an OOC thing that the shops buy and sell all these things, and unfortunately, new players or players who are new to Allanak, will see an OOC example set, that is completely contrary to the documentation.

This is why the shops buy what they buy.  There is code that specifies what types of objects an NPC merchant buys (clothing, armor, weapons, for example), but there is nothing to distinguish between northern and southern styles.  It's a possibility that we may be able to work out some kind of change in code to determine further subcategories and whether or not the merchant will purchase them, but that is not a guarantee.  Until then, we rely on the playerbase to roleplay responsibly and within documentation.

Thanks Niamh for detailing your answer. Unfortunately, the playerbase isn't going to stop selling strapless polkadotted silk gowns for 400 sids each to the "commoner" shop, because that NPC is willing to actually pay 400 sids for it and that's probably the only way the PC is covering the cost of lengths of silk to make things that allow him to eat. Granted, if he sells a few of them, he'll be renting one of those luxury apartments in no time. Point being though, you can't really blame someone for selling something to an NPC who's willing to buy. If he's not supposed to be sellling it there, then there should at least be some kind of echo of disapproval so the *player* of the PC knows that it's inappropriate. New players don't know. How can they, when it's probably the first time they've even played in Allanak, let alone sold something to a Nakki shop.

I'd love to see things flagged correctly - and ALL items flagged, even if it gets a "generic" flag that says simplye "generic" so that the NPCs know that anyone can buy or sell them, anywhere. And then the NPCs toggled to reject things that their local extortionist/law enforcement would fine them for daring to sell.

[FantasyWriter]

I've seen northern and southern flags on things through the value command.
Could be a lot of work to add them to all the other appropriate/inappropriate things though and then code shopkeepers to give a feck.

[Drayab]

If the style affected the price in the same way as materials (e.g. - wood vs obsidian), then I think we'd see players driven by economic forces to produce the locally fashionable styles. However, we might also see clueless noobs buying the unfashionable styles because they're cheaper, and they don't know any better. Thus, I think the solution is two-fold:

1) Players need to be fashion conscious and insult/compliment each other accordingly.

2) Fashionable clothes should be expensive relative to unfashionable clothes of otherwise equal construction.

[Niamh]

New players don't know. How can they, when it's probably the first time they've even played in Allanak, let alone sold something to a Nakki shop.

So rather than sit back and watch them make newbie mistakes, more experienced players can very easily give them IC guidance, and show them the ropes in a constructive way.

[X-D]

I am simply going to have to go along with Niamh on this one, along with the now old GDB adage "Be the change". If you are playing a noble or templar, get huffy about the matter, if you are playing a commoner, make fun of or mug the silk wearing elf/commoner etc. This is something where it actually works.

[Niamh]

New players don't know. How can they, when it's probably the first time they've even played in Allanak, let alone sold something to a Nakki shop.

So rather than sit back and watch them make newbie mistakes, more experienced players can very easily give them IC guidance, and show them the ropes in a constructive way.

I just want to add that it is also the new players' responsibility to read up on the documentation.  The documentation is there to help, after all.