Merchants, and Why I Hate them.

[Synthesis]

For whatever reason, when I first made a subguild crafter, I was really disappointed with what I was able to do when compared to the Merchant guild... It felt like a wasted subguild, with what I had planned for the character. With was a warrior/weaponsmith type role. I don't remember what it was exactly, but it felt a whole lot like: "Oh... I can't even make the type of weapons my character uses? Lame."

My last warrior was a warrior/weaponcrafter, and he pretty much kicked ass.  Sure, you fail at crafting quite a bit, but it doesn't really matter when you're enough of a badass to basically keep yourself infinitely supplied with tarantula fangs or whatever else you're using to craft with.  I think he joined the Byn at something like 5 days and he already had an apartment in Tuluk, an apartment in Allanak, and three separate matched sets of armor.

Protip: if you want wooden poles for spears, find a merchant PC in Allanak or Red Storm and offer to haul logs in for him if he'll give you the poles for free (or at a nominal cost).  I guarantee he'll take you up on that offer for at least a RL week or two, just to get over the lumberjacking branch, because it's such a pain down south.

Also, I submitted a recipe for a spearmaking craft that's pretty cool and doesn't use any kind of wooden pole.  You'll have to figure that one out, though.

[Fredd]

Seems like most of the disagreements leveled at the Merchant guild will be cleared up by the introduction of the Arm2 guilds.  If I remember right, isn't the plan to split the class into "Merchant" which has the haggle, value, etc. type skills, and "Artisan" which has the crafting skills?

See that would be awesome if done right.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'd rather focus on the current game and making it better, than get my hopes up that "Everything will be right and awesome" in Arm 2.0. It irks me whenever someone says "Well ain't it great that all this stuff you want will be in this other game that doesn't exist?" I want it in a  game I can and do play. Not one that I might play.

[Marshmellow]

Yeah, RGS, that'd be great except that we KNOW they're going to do Arm2.0.  Why continue to develop this game when we KNOW that it'll end?  I'd rather they concentrate on finishing it so we can just find out if you're going to play or not.

[Thunkkin]

Yeah, RGS, that'd be great except that we KNOW they're going to do Arm2.0. 

It may be unfair, but many have doubts about this statement.

Either way, various coders have done some really important and valuable changes to THIS game in the last few years. I'm glad they did. Many builders have added new crafts (the leather armor push a while back was awesome). I'm glad they did. Staff have begun to allow changes and building projects again. I'm glad on that score, too. Arm 2.0 may be coming ... but that doesn't mean it will arrive before 2015 or 2016. Or ever.

That said, I don't think the staff will do a major overhaul to the entire guild system in Arm 1.0. Smaller changes, however, seem quite possible and potentially quite valuable.

[Malifaxis]

There's something going on that you don't know about here, Fredd, I guarantee it. 

I've played a long run merchant d-elf who fought -every day- I played him, because that's just how it tends to be with d-elf merchants.  Had decent stats, too.  I fought quirri, carru, tembo, and sometimes I'd do a take down, but most times I'd have to run for help.

Is it impossible for a merchant to take a carru?  No.  Is it improbable?  Yes? 

Do you pretty much have to be a twink to do it?  Absolutely.  Or you have to have a lot of time on the PC, and be an excellent player.

[Is Friday]

lol, badass merchants. Ahaha... ah... ha... ha.... Even pickpockets get more swoosh in combat than merchants, and if you think about it like that--there should be no doubt in your mind just how much merchants suck at combat operations.

[Thunkkin]

lol, badass merchants. Ahaha... ah... ha... ha.... Even pickpockets get more swoosh in combat than merchants, and if you think about it like that--there should be no doubt in your mind just how much merchants suck at combat operations.

We should have had our merchants spar.

[Armaddict]

lol, badass merchants. Ahaha... ah... ha... ha.... Even pickpockets get more swoosh in combat than merchants, and if you think about it like that--there should be no doubt in your mind just how much merchants suck at combat operations.

It's cute when people make pickpockets out to be horrible, when they're roughly the same as several others and gain skills for combat that others do not get.

[Twilight]

Half giant merchants could probably routinely take down a carru.

Otherwise, yes within the last few years merchants have gotten a boost to combat, as far as I can tell as a non-Staff.  I could see them taking down a carru, I just doubt routinely, and I doubt the strong ones vs the weak ones.

I kind of like that they get all the crafting.  If one was to balance them, I would leave them as is, just make it so more of a proportion of the "good" stuff had clan flags, so that you needed to be clanned to make it.

[Marshmellow]

Yeah, I'm with Armaddict.  Pick-pockets ain't nothing on warriors/rangers/assassins, or even on burglars, but they're still gods compared to merchants of equal combat experience.

[hyzhenhok]

I'm surprised all these veterans are talking about how impossible it is for a merchant to kill a carru. It's quite easy to see how that's possible.

Merchants have ride.

So it's not really the merchants that are overpowered; it's mounted combat.

[Cindy42]

i love being a merchant.  though i doubt one of my chars did something to you that would make you hate them.

i don't know why, in real life and thus in ARM, i love creating junk out of other junk.

if you're happening to be walking around columbus and see a handknit scarf on a homeless person there's A 20% chance i made it.

[Fredd]

if you're happening to be walking around columbus and see a handknit scarf on a homeless person there's A 20% chance i made it.

You just keep getting more awesome.

back on topic. Again, it's not there fighting ability really it's just that it doesn't make sense to me that they get to make EVERYTHING.

[Lizzie]

if you're happening to be walking around columbus and see a handknit scarf on a homeless person there's A 20% chance i made it.

You just keep getting more awesome.

back on topic. Again, it's not there fighting ability really it's just that it doesn't make sense to me that they get to make EVERYTHING.

Put it this way:

Merchant gets to make everything except [redacted.]
Warrior gets every combat skill except [redacted.]
Burglar gets every criminal skill except [redacted.]
Assassin gets every murder skill -and- many warrior skills, but doesn't get [redacted.]
Ranger gets all outdoorsy skills except [redacted.]

On the other hand, if all you want is some random dune-hopper who can make armor and trade it in the different centers of commerce, you can do a ranger/armorsmith. You'll never be a "master armorsmith" to the point where you can make custom items for individuals. But you'll still be pretty damned awesome. PLUS - you'll be able to defend yourself, hunt down the hides and chitin, skin it yourself, find your own food and water, live outside the cities, find your way around the deserts with ease even in a sandstorm, be able to maneuver yourself at night with no moons, and stay just that one step ahead of your prey at all times.

[Fredd]

if you're happening to be walking around columbus and see a handknit scarf on a homeless person there's A 20% chance i made it.

You just keep getting more awesome.

back on topic. Again, it's not there fighting ability really it's just that it doesn't make sense to me that they get to make EVERYTHING.

Put it this way:

Merchant gets to make everything except [redacted.]
Warrior gets every combat skill except [redacted.]
Burglar gets every criminal skill except [redacted.]
Assassin gets every murder skill -and- many warrior skills, but doesn't get [redacted.]
Ranger gets all outdoorsy skills except [redacted.]

On the other hand, if all you want is some random dune-hopper who can make armor and trade it in the different centers of commerce, you can do a ranger/armorsmith. You'll never be a "master armorsmith" to the point where you can make custom items for individuals. But you'll still be pretty damned awesome. PLUS - you'll be able to defend yourself, hunt down the hides and chitin, skin it yourself, find your own food and water, live outside the cities, find your way around the deserts with ease even in a sandstorm, be able to maneuver yourself at night with no moons, and stay just that one step ahead of your prey at all times.

Damnit Lizzie. Why do you have to make sense...

[Marshmellow]

Because this is a class-based game, and she's only telling you the truth: that you have to make choices about in which way you will be awesome.

[Is Friday]

What the hell--I said pickpockets were awesome in combat compared to merchants.

Do people even read posts anymore?

[Marshmellow]

You made it sound like Merchants were so bad that even Pick Pockets could beat them up... which is kinda like saying that Pick Pockets are useless, just not quite as useless.

[Is Friday]

You made it sound like Merchants were so bad that even Pick Pockets could beat them up... which is kinda like saying that Pick Pockets are useless, just not quite as useless.

Pickpockets have a zillion more PK-useful skills than Merchants have. I'm talking about straight A-to-B conflict as though this were a hack-n-slash. Merchants are probably one of the most dangerous guilds to make an opponent of in game for a variety of reasons.

[Aruven]

Merchant to me, is hit or miss. You give your character and outline it, and stick to it. Sure you can branch a bazillion things, but I played a sixty day plus and branched very little, actually, because of the way RP went their entire life. I highly enjoyed mine, but I've seen some that randomly fit every single want and need in the known, and thats not realistic to me. I suppose (without honestly having read through this entire thing), the point of merchants isn't to branch a gazillion things, but to stick to their concept, and be damn good at it. I always had mine be frustrated with their actual combat abilities, even though they started getting decent, I always made them look like ass in a sparring match or what not. it comes down to the player in the end, not the code, for any class, especially a merchant.

[Synthesis]

If the only skills the staff see fit to give you are a bunch of crafts, I see absolutely no reason to be embarrassed about using them.  Every merchant in the world being able to craft arrows makes just as much sense as every warrior in the world having some skill with axes.  I honestly don't understand why some people have this aversion to using skills, or pursuing skill advancement.  As far as it not being realistic is concerned:  sure, it's not strictly realistic that you can learn to craft EVERYTHING...but neither is it realistic that you will never successfully sneak, hide, or disarm an opponent.

If you don't feel like skilling up, fine.  But don't take what amounts to your personal preference to be some sort of standard of play, then bemoan the situation while not-so-subtly attempting to maintain an air of superiority over folks who have reasonable disagreements over what is or isn't good play.

[Cindy42]

Since I'm assuming everything starts at "novice", it'd make sense to me for every merchant to be able to attempt to learn how to make arrows, just not for everyone to try long enough to do it right (journeyman). I personally hate fletchery. To me, novice is the ability to learn to do it properly. I'm assuming the number of merchants that can actually make arrows at journeyman is small or medium and concentrated solely up north unless making arrows in large numbers for a clan.

Is it IC-sensitive to ask how merchants branch? Do you have to become master in a crafting skill to get a random other crafting skill?

I love merchants. I wish there was more around in the PC population.

[Lizzie]

Since I'm assuming everything starts at "novice", it'd make sense to me for every merchant to be able to attempt to learn how to make arrows, just not for everyone to try long enough to do it right (journeyman). I personally hate fletchery. To me, novice is the ability to learn to do it properly. I'm assuming the number of merchants that can actually make arrows at journeyman is small or medium and concentrated solely up north unless making arrows in large numbers for a clan.

Is it IC-sensitive to ask how merchants branch? Do you have to become master in a crafting skill to get a random other crafting skill?

I love merchants. I wish there was more around in the PC population.

No, it's not IC sensitive. It's discussion of the code, which is not allowed. Suffice it to say, the branching occurs somewhat like branching of most other skills in the game.

[Marshmellow]

You branch from a skill when approaching getting as good at that skill as your guild allows.  What that means can change from skill to skill and guild to guild.  That's probably the most that can be said.