Political Derail

[Agent_137]

hm. I've never enjoyed the political aspects of armageddon because it allows someone to just app in with a bunch of power. And even if they use it for good, as in, to build plots, they inevitably crush some folks with this power and that always irked the hell out of me. And it's 10x worse if a bad player slips into one of these power positions.

Yes, i know they're necessary in this games current incarnation. So I'm looking forward to the flatter political structure of armageddon 2, when it finally arrives in 20 years. Because honestly, all my favorite roles in the past 6 years have been completely isolated from big city politics.

[Armaddict]

I've never enjoyed the political aspects of armageddon because it allows someone to just app in with a bunch of power.

Not true.  They all come in with certain things they can (kind of) control, and a name, but that does not equate to power.  At all.  None.

Edited to add:

You see a noble point at a commoner and demand their death, and a templar doing it, and you see power.
I see a noble point at a commoner and demand their death, and a templar doing it, and I see a favor being performed that will be repaid later, or else nothing will work out until said favor is completed.

Have you...played a noble, at all?

[Marauder Moe]

 

It's not like just anyone can get a noble role.

It's not like a noble using their power to randomly kill a lot of commoners doesn't have OOC and IC consequences.

Also, plenty of non-nobles (and even non-GMH family) have accumulated more real power than a fresh noble or templar starts with.

[deviant storm]

It's not like just anyone can get a noble role.

It's not like a noble using their power to randomly kill a lot of commoners doesn't have OOC and IC consequences.

Also, plenty of non-nobles (and even non-GMH family) have accumulated more real power than a fresh noble or templar starts with.

This is true, but that is something they've done with time. Not straight out of the box. And I've had both good and bad experiences with all manner of powerful characters, sponsored and independent. For the most part I have enjoyed those.  I just think in my own case there was some things that I the player wasn't able to handle at that time. It doesn't mean the person with the powerr sucked, as staff did look into it.

I think the powerful non-House people have become harder to build and thus less common due to recent changes to the game. They make being independent harder, and one of my problems has been because I don't spam whatever makes money, it has made some roles much less playable.

[a strange shadow]

Money matters some, but what matters more is value. Value is not always in the form of money.

IMO.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Money matters some, but what matters more is value. Value is not always in the form of money.

IMO.

Outside the extremely HIGH cost in money of keeping such characters alive (food and water alone).

[Agent_137]

I've never enjoyed the political aspects of armageddon because it allows someone to just app in with a bunch of power.

Not true.  They all come in with certain things they can (kind of) control, and a name, but that does not equate to power.  At all.  None.

Edited to add:

You see a noble point at a commoner and demand their death, and a templar doing it, and you see power.
I see a noble point at a commoner and demand their death, and a templar doing it, and I see a favor being performed that will be repaid later, or else nothing will work out until said favor is completed.

Have you...played a noble, at all?

You make a good point that they don't come out of the Hall of Kings with as much power as I thought, but they still app in with far more power (inherent value) than a commoner with the same days played, yea?

I like the mundane gritty characters and roles in armageddon. I've never enjoyed the high social/political play. Maybe it's because i've always entered it on the fringes with middling-level commoners, maybe my H&K roots are too strong, but i've just never enjoyed the bowing and groveling that comes with interacting with nobility - with folks who basically just do a bunch of talking and coin passing.

I'd play in tuluk but I hate green things. Maybe the rinth is for me? I won't special app a noble because i'm afraid i'd get bored and quit playing and just be wasting the role and the IMMs time.

[deviant storm]

Money matters some, but what matters more is value. Value is not always in the form of money.

IMO.

This is true, however as Amanda pointed out, staying alive is harder of late. Much harder, and I'm talking about just getting enough sid to keep fed and watered. I think part of my frustration over having a hard time with keeping fed and watered is what bled over into the situation that nearly made me walk away from the game when someone with power made things harder yet.

[Armaddict]

Well.

Refusing to get involved in the politics/social game, is likely what keeps you getting you screwed by it.  By not being a player, you are only a piece, or a part of collateral damage.  There's no weight behind you.

That's not a rule or anything, or a certainty, but kind of food for thought.  You can be just as vulnerable in the game by not 'practicing' the 'politics' skill.

[Barzalene]

This discussion is interesting enough to warrant its own thread, I think.

[deviant storm]

This discussion is interesting enough to warrant its own thread, I think.

By all means. Just link so people know where to reply.

[Barzalene]

Referencing the derail here:
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,39032.msg539482.html#new

[Barzalene]

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,39110.new.html#new

[deviant storm]

You know what I wish? I'd love for someone to drag LoD out of retirement. Have him work up one of those long-term characters of his that wind up making the big moves, like Kahn.

See if he could bring his character to some kind of power in Arm as it is now, independent of any organization. And see whether he's had to change his game plan.

[Vanth]

Behold the power of topic splitting and merging.

[Vanth]

Money matters some, but what matters more is value. Value is not always in the form of money.

IMO.

This is true, however as Amanda pointed out, staying alive is harder of late. Much harder, and I'm talking about just getting enough sid to keep fed and watered. I think part of my frustration over having a hard time with keeping fed and watered is what bled over into the situation that nearly made me walk away from the game when someone with power made things harder yet.

This is true, it has gotten harder to stay fed and watered as an independent who doesn't just automatically do whatever they've found to be the most profitable, whether salt grebbing, glasshacking, clay digging, whatever.  Part of that is OOC, because there are commoners with 25k or 50k in the bank - and as staff, we find out how they did that and see if it needs nerfing.  Part of it is IC, with food prices going up due to IC events, etc.  Sometimes it's hard to get into playing real poverty, especially if it's not what you foresaw for your character.

I have never had a successful independent.  I always end up joining a clan because my PCs go broke and hungry.  For what it's worth.

Moving back to the original derail point, playing a templar is the most demanding role in the game, followed by nobles, followed by commoner leadership.  It's a lot of pressure to have so many other players dependent on how you play your role, and to have staff members questioning your moves.  You're responsible not only for the development of your own character, but those around you, making sure they are interested and involved enough to keep logging in, etc.  That's why so few people are able to stick it out for more than a handful of weeks. 

So yeah, some of them do things that not everyone agrees with, but at least they're doing something other than logging in an hour a day that they spend idling on their estate.

[Fredd]

my current pc Does both. He makes plots (generally for newer players i hire as an assistant) And does big city polotics. While not even close to a noble I like to think I influence some things. The only thing I dislike is when a noble player decides he doesnt like playing a noble anymore.

[Jingo]

One thing that really peeves in Armageddon politics is the over reliance on psionics.

I notice this especially in Tuluk, where the social niceties occur in real time but most or all of the real plotting takes place via telepathy.

It makes me feel like so much of the game is now redundant. And any character who makes an attempt to escape this reliance is at an extremely stark disadvantage.

[spacewars]

politics suck

[Erythil]

Hmn.  I found it pretty easy to make my own way with minimal clanned assistance on my very first character.

But I wasn't playing in the land of volcanic death.