Suggestion on how to keep the harsh without going too harsh

[Mudder]

Best part of this game for me is picking yourself back up after you have been knocked down.

I've played my share of dickheads (But you know that Deviant Storm ;P) in game and  I have played some down to earth
good guys as well. Some people take this game way too seriously, and let it affect them on an OOC
level.

If something happens to my character that sucks, I am like damn, sucks to be this guy.
Armageddon is meant to be Harsh and Brutal, is that not the Slogan for Arm?

Everything that happens to your character is just part of the storyline and part
of the struggle you must endure to see them live.

Deviant Storm, you said yourself that you weren't instant-ganked, you were after everything
was said and done, still left with your pc. Could have been worse in my opinion.

I myself back when I first started used to get annoyed about some of the things that
happened to my PCs, but after years of playing, I have learned to take anything
that has happened to them with a grain of salt.

The backstabbing, the killing, the harassment is what keeps me coming back for
more and more, After all these years.

Revenge is bitter sweet sometimes, and sometimes when you are not able to get
revenge on this other PC because they are far more superior than you in social rank,
well that sucks balls, but once again. Its part of the world we play in. Just tread lightly
around them, fear them, be obident towards them, and most importantly, do not
fuck up around them.

Most people who are in sponsored roles turn to pkilling as a last resort when there
is no other option to be given. Atleast that is how I play mine. I've played
a few sponsored roles, from nobles to templars, and I could probably count on
one hand how many I have killed. Don't get me wrong, I am a seasoned pkiller,
I am damn good at it, but the bulk of my pkilling has come from unsponsored
run of the mill normal guy.

Im just running on at the mouth, so I think that is all I have to give about this topic.

Once again, Welcome to Armageddon

Editted to add: I tend to just harass people in my sponsored roles and just be down right rude.

[Thunkkin]

There's a key difference between "bad things" happening to you in game and a player/character that makes your game time so miserable and annoying that you just want to store or stop logging in.  Yes, sometimes these things can be handled ICly.  Often not, though.  If it starts to become a chore for a player to log in and deal with another player's never-ending power trips and harassment ... the result will only very rarely be something that enriches the game.

[Mudder]

There's a key difference between "bad things" happening to you in game and a player/character that makes your game time so miserable and annoying that you just want to store or stop logging in.  Yes, sometimes these things can be handled ICly.  Often not, though.  If it starts to become a chore for a player to log in and deal with another player's never-ending power trips and harassment ... the result will only very rarely be something that enriches the game.

Indeed, is why I spread the harassments out so that it doesn't feel like a never ending process.

[Jingo]

I've noticed in my case that it always seems to be a poorly played half-giant.

[Kankman]

Nothing like harshing up a good mellow for kicks...

If 5 of your characters were harassed or killed by the same PC all in a row, you have failed to sufficiently change up your characters locations and concepts.

If you get angry because bad things happen to your PC you should consider playing another game.

If you play a PC that constantly kills (almost) everyone they come across, you should reconsider your goals in life.

Recently I had a PC killed for outrageous reasons that had nothing to do with (in-game...) reality. Kind of sucked, but it was also awesome because after nearly 10 years of playing this game I can still get caught by surprise in some kind of crazy plot that I did not foresee in any way, and die. That is why I <3 Armageddon.

[Bogre]

The worst experience I had with this in game was making a really weak, kick able character that was sniveling, non-combative, and generally dogged. I mean, I was playing the character as a miserable piece of trash. I had poured a lot of thought and effort into said PC, and perhaps I put too much in, because I was continuously kicked and put down. To the point that I was frustrated OOCly because it felt that it was just other players going on a power trip. I spent a day of RPing with one character to eventually be killed on a whim, a day that I was going to spend doing other things. But to have the characters life I put that much effort in because of some player deciding thats how he's going to have fun really irked me.

I mean yes, I understand I was playing a really weak and whimpering PC, but really, did you have to show your IC and coded power that way? It couldn't be left alone that I was RPing that way to be fresh, instead of just being the next cookie-cutter badass? I mean, I'm capable of making bad asses, and having characters crushed like that makes me want to so that I can just PK people out of the way who are going to act like that.

Left a sour taste in my mouth.

[Lizzie]

Nothing like harshing up a good mellow for kicks...

If 5 of your characters were harassed or killed by the same PC all in a row, you have failed to sufficiently change up your characters locations and concepts.

If you get angry because bad things happen to your PC you should consider playing another game.

If you play a PC that constantly kills (almost) everyone they come across, you should reconsider your goals in life.

Recently I had a PC killed for outrageous reasons that had nothing to do with (in-game...) reality. Kind of sucked, but it was also awesome because after nearly 10 years of playing this game I can still get caught by surprise in some kind of crazy plot that I did not foresee in any way, and die. That is why I <3 Armageddon.

If you make assumptions about my characters' locations and concepts, you would be wrong.

[deviant storm]

The worst experience I had with this in game was making a really weak, kick able character that was sniveling, non-combative, and generally dogged. I mean, I was playing the character as a miserable piece of trash. I had poured a lot of thought and effort into said PC, and perhaps I put too much in, because I was continuously kicked and put down. To the point that I was frustrated OOCly because it felt that it was just other players going on a power trip. I spent a day of RPing with one character to eventually be killed on a whim, a day that I was going to spend doing other things. But to have the characters life I put that much effort in because of some player deciding thats how he's going to have fun really irked me.

You know, I've been thinking about this. I think I was too good at this kind of role and thus did sort of bring this sort of situation on myself. I'm going to stay away certain concepts from now on, ones that scream 'victim' and invite being preyed upon. It will probably make the game much more palatable to me.

Not that yours was that kind of character.

[jhunter]

I think there are a lot of IC things that people with power can do, that they should restrain themselves from doing for IC reasons. vNPC templars and nobles can murder people on a whim or take valuable things from people, sure, and while a PC will get away with this ICly, they won't necessarily get away with it OOCly, where they are accountable to staff and, indirectly, to the player they're victimizing through griefing. Players with power are supposed to know that their powers have OOC limits that end when OOCly, it makes no sense for playability reasons.

I've had 3 characters in a row killed by the same PC. Prior to those three, I had one that was harrassed by the same PC. After that, I had another one that was threatened by the same PC.

Although it was all IC, and all legit, it still stinks. As a result of this sour taste in my mouth, I'm pretty much avoiding playing certain roles, in certain locations. All so I don't have to deal with that one PC.

• I don't play in Tuluk any more because of 1 character that I assume is still alive in that city.

Although it's probably tempting to get away from troublemaker PCs/players like this, I would suggest using the request tool to fire off a player complaint (provided you haven't done this already) instead of avoiding a location or situation you otherwise like, so that staff know about it and handle it appropriately. It might be too late now, and I doubt you two are the only ones who feel that way, but at least let staff know (and let staff let the player know, or else how can they improve?).

Although I don't know anything about these situations mentioned, one shouldn't jump to the conclusion that one is acting OOCly, griefing, or being "a troublemaker". Perhaps these players just ended up making pcs that had enough similarity that it put them in the line of fire of the same pc in power because that pc is playing their character consistantly and there are certain aspects of pcs that will make them a target for this pc.

[Lizzie]

I don't know why my post keeps being brought up and quoted, but the main point of what I said is being ignored.

Although it was all IC, and all legit, it still stinks.

For emphasis:

Although it was all IC, and all legit, it still stinks.

No, I didn't play five similar characters, unless by similar, you mean female. Each spoke differently, three of them weren't even from that place, one rarely went to that place, one loathed having to go to that place but went anyway because it was part of the job. Three were mundane. Two were leadership roles. One was sponsored. One had never even met the person who harrassed her.

[jhunter]

There's a key difference between "bad things" happening to you in game and a player/character that makes your game time so miserable and annoying that you just want to store or stop logging in.  Yes, sometimes these things can be handled ICly.  Often not, though.  If it starts to become a chore for a player to log in and deal with another player's never-ending power trips and harassment ... the result will only very rarely be something that enriches the game.

There are two sides to this coin, IMO. Some people get upset and blame those in power -every- time something bad happens to their pcs instead of looking to place the blame where it belongs. Some people think that their pcs -never- deserve it and the other guy/girl is always at fault, picking on them unrealistically, and acting like a dick OOC. Some people you can give every out in the world only to have them continue digging their grave steadily. Honestly, I don't take much stock in these sort of complaints. I'm not gonna be a dick and say that I don't think they are always false and that the player with the pc in the position of power is never wrong, but I think most of the time it's a misperception on the part of people playing the victims and their own attitudes.

[BlackMagic0]

To agree with Jhunter.

Say my character is racist against elves, southerns (or notherners), and half-elves.
So I am always racist to all of these. If you make half-elf after half-elf. I am going be racist to you repeatedly.

Though sometimes it does get a bit to much. I've seen times when it seems like things are going to OOC harassment.

I think this is a fine line... since we play in a game full of murder, deception, sex, violence, racism, and people who are 'by birth better then you'.

[jhunter]

I don't know why my post keeps being brought up and quoted, but the main point of what I said is being ignored.

Although it was all IC, and all legit, it still stinks.

For emphasis:

Although it was all IC, and all legit, it still stinks.

No, I didn't play five similar characters, unless by similar, you mean female. Each spoke differently, three of them weren't even from that place, one rarely went to that place, one loathed having to go to that place but went anyway because it was part of the job. Three were mundane. Two were leadership roles. One was sponsored. One had never even met the person who harrassed her.

I'm not responding only to the original post. There are many others in the thread besides the original post. Just because I am speaking in a general sense after taking in all of the thread it doesn't mean that I am ignoring the original post. I'm talking about things about your personality that maybe were bleeding through into the characters and were rubbing them the wrong way. Perhaps there is the possibility you weren't even aware of it. *shrugs* It was just a suggestion.

[Cutthroat]

Although I don't know anything about these situations mentioned, one shouldn't jump to the conclusion that one is acting OOCly, griefing, or being "a troublemaker". Perhaps these players just ended up making pcs that had enough similarity that it put them in the line of fire of the same pc in power because that pc is playing their character consistantly and there are certain aspects of pcs that will make them a target for this pc.

Right, and that is my point. Sometimes actions are completely justified, but it's really up to the staff to figure it out if something's possibly in conflict. It is possible to act completely ICly (obviously, that's the point of the game ) but it is also possible to grief.

[Bogre]

The worst experience I had with this in game was making a really weak, kick able character that was sniveling, non-combative, and generally dogged. I mean, I was playing the character as a miserable piece of trash. I had poured a lot of thought and effort into said PC, and perhaps I put too much in, because I was continuously kicked and put down. To the point that I was frustrated OOCly because it felt that it was just other players going on a power trip. I spent a day of RPing with one character to eventually be killed on a whim, a day that I was going to spend doing other things. But to have the characters life I put that much effort in because of some player deciding thats how he's going to have fun really irked me.

You know, I've been thinking about this. I think I was too good at this kind of role and thus did sort of bring this sort of situation on myself. I'm going to stay away certain concepts from now on, ones that scream 'victim' and invite being preyed upon. It will probably make the game much more palatable to me.

Not that yours was that kind of character.

That's sorta what I was thinking too.

[Delstro]

Another part of the problem with harshness is that when your PC becomes a target of someone else's hatred, you feel like the target. I have felt, on several occasions, that Templar B or Red Fang #3 is harassing me as a player more than they are harassing my PC. When I step back and figure out how they were harassing me vice my PC, I finally understand that it isn't personal. It is a game. You win some, you lose some, and then you die.

[jriley]

It's not IC for your characters to avoid a whole area of the game because of something that happened to a previous, deceased character.  If the problem was bad enough that it has these OOC consequences, then it can also deserve an OOC report.

I think that what you meant to say is that it's not "appropriate" to avoid a whole area, etc for OOC motivations. 
Also, it sounds like you're not taking the human factor into account with your role-playing.  Please remember that even though Arm is a highly-awesome, cutting-edge MMORPG, all of the PC that you are playing with are not figments of your imagination that you are free to abuse wily-niley but that these PC are played by volunteers who enjoy entertaining you and being victimised by you if/when you do so in a manor that brings mirth and amusement to them.  While some purists do play this game, most of the players are not purists and we're playing for fun and entertainment.  If you're going to harm/abuse our characters, please do so in a way that advances a storyline or provides us with some measure of amusement as well.

Another part of the problem with harshness is that when your PC becomes a target of someone else's hatred, you feel like the target. I have felt, on several occasions, that Templar B or Red Fang #3 is harassing me as a player more than they are harassing my PC. When I step back and figure out how they were harassing me vice my PC, I finally understand that it isn't personal. It is a game. You win some, you lose some, and then you die.

True and I feel the same way.  However for newer and junior players it's important to help them to adapt to the game by abusing their characters in a way that they will find amusing/entertaining. 

Has everyone who is playing this game seen the classic film "Cool Hand Luke?"  In part this movie is famous because all of the suffering that the title character goes through at the hands of his jailers is entertaining on some level.  We emphathise with Luke but we empathise with his jailors as well.  By contrast, few players want to have their characters locked in a dark jail cell for three game days because we wore the wrong color silk or forgot to emote bowing to an insignificant noble.  Keep it harsh, but keep it fun.  Don't forget the human element.

[Jingo]

I've seen some players take it much too far. And I would avoid playing with them in game because of it.

This includes karma players that kill off my entire clan, players who harass every member of the opposite sex that they meet, players that use borderline ooc info to attack other players etc.

[a strange shadow]

If you're going to harm/abuse our characters, please do so in a way that advances a storyline or provides us with some measure of amusement as well.

I think this is the most important part.

[jhunter]

If you're going to harm/abuse our characters, please do so in a way that advances a storyline or provides us with some measure of amusement as well.

I think this is the most important part.

Sure, but as I said earlier there are some people who will never be pleased with anything negative happening to their pcs at the hands of another pc, no matter what lengths you go through to make it entertaining for all involved. Also, for better or worse, it almost always advances a storyline, whether you like it or not.

[a strange shadow]

I agree with you for the most part. Not taking things personally goes a long way. That said.. without going into details, I can think of a few cases where story lines have been steamrolled over in what seemed like thoughtless whimsy rather than a consideration as to "what would make the most sense, what would further the ongoing plot, and what would make the most interesting story".

The truth of the matter is that a large segment of the playerbase would rather destroy things that others have worked hard to create. It's also much easier, since creation requires going through a labyrinth of hurdles regarding playtimes, staff assistance, and more.

[jhunter]

The truth of the matter is that a large segment of the playerbase would rather destroy things that others have worked hard to create. It's also much easier, since creation requires going through a labyrinth of hurdles regarding playtimes, staff assistance, and more.

Also true. Some people give up on creating things themselves for one reason or another and focus on destroying things instead.

[Reiloth]

A problem I run into is being in a position of power to hire assassins.

In a world like Zalanthas, I always figure that life is cheap. However, the time players OOCly invest in their characters is not. Those are hours, and hours, and hours of time devoted to a character, to a life, to virtual friends, lovers, and enemies, and when the lights go out, the show is over.

So -- How does a PC that has pretty much 'coded power' to hire assassins deal with this OOC consideration?

Personally, I hire the assassin if killing that PC will further some sort of plot that otherwise would be IMPOSSIBLE to pursue otherwise. This may be due to knowledge, to coded power, to alliances or emnity. I can't cookie cutter the situation, but when I have that kind of IG power, I totally weigh the pro's and con's. I like keeping the people my PC hates around for as long as possible.

[Reiloth]

If you're going to harm/abuse our characters, please do so in a way that advances a storyline or provides us with some measure of amusement as well.

I think this is the most important part.

Sure, but as I said earlier there are some people who will never be pleased with anything negative happening to their pcs at the hands of another pc, no matter what lengths you go through to make it entertaining for all involved. Also, for better or worse, it almost always advances a storyline, whether you like it or not.

Alas, I disagree. When someone dies, half or more of whatever storyline they're involved with is gone as well. It's hard for a storyline of a character to continue after they die, even if they are one of the most popular, connected, successful PC's of their era. However, if the character in question's death brings about long-lasting change...(Perhaps a Noble being assassinated, leading to an uproar and lynching party that brings a group of criminals to justice.)...Well, that's cool, but not to be expected.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I like keeping the people my PC hates around for as long as possible.

Same. It's always good fun and something to scheme on when your pc has a true archnemesis.