Subguild: Scavenger removal

[janeshephard]

I've already suggested that scavenger should get direction sense, since they're supposed to be "skilled at surviving in the wilds."

Same. Most of what I meant there was that if it would be considered 'overpowered' with that and search both, I'd gladly be rid of search. But then, that's just me personally.

Don't get rid of search. It's a really cool skill for a waste explorer.

[Vanth]

Guilds and subguilds are all about making choices, weighing costs and benefits, sacrificing one skill because another is more important for this character.  We could just make every character the same, or allow anyone to learn any skill, but then everyone would have food forage, and everyone would have backstab, and everyone would have pick, and everyone would have hunt, and so on.  But we don't do that.  You have to decide what your character's kryptonite is.

[Akoto]

I like it that way, personally. The fact that you have things you can do and can't do, differing entirely from the guy one seat over, makes for an interesting mix. Those limitations keep me coming back.

When I've played on games where characters can learn anything they want, it has pretty much been as Vanth describes. People develop 'templates' of the most effective skill combinations, and soon enough, everybody's a clone.

That said, I like scavenger a lot in its present form. It's my go-to subguild when nothing else fits, and more often on wilderness PCs.

[jhunter]

Guilds and subguilds are all about making choices, weighing costs and benefits, sacrificing one skill because another is more important for this character.  We could just make every character the same, or allow anyone to learn any skill, but then everyone would have food forage, and everyone would have backstab, and everyone would have pick, and everyone would have hunt, and so on.  But we don't do that.  You have to decide what your character's kryptonite is.

Exactly my primary reason why I like our class system or a class system in general. There are built in strengths and weaknesses to each guild and subguild choice.

[deviant storm]

I've found I've enjoyed scavenger just as it is. I'm not anxious to see any changes.

[Potaje]

Guilds and subguilds are all about making choices, weighing costs and benefits, sacrificing one skill because another is more important for this character.  We could just make every character the same, or allow anyone to learn any skill, but then everyone would have food forage, and everyone would have backstab, and everyone would have pick, and everyone would have hunt, and so on.  But we don't do that.  You have to decide what your character's kryptonite is.

Exactly my primary reason why I like our class system or a class system in general. There are built in strengths and weaknesses to each guild and subguild choice.

The above is such a goo point, by Vanth, also why would a pc need to build bonds in a harsh world if they could do everything. there would be little need of Rp with others. If there is a short coming in your pc's abilities then find a buddy or two that have the qualities your pc sorely lacks.
Sometimes it seems that we players can be so short sighted of this simple element to the game. The fact that we can interact so easly with others, at least when it comes to our own pc's skill tree and capabilities.

[janeshephard]

The above is such a goo point, by Vanth, also why would a pc need to build bonds in a harsh world if they could do everything. there would be little need of Rp with others. If there is a short coming in your pc's abilities then find a buddy or two that have the qualities your pc sorely lacks.
Sometimes it seems that we players can be so short sighted of this simple element to the game. The fact that we can interact so easly with others, at least when it comes to our own pc's skill tree and capabilities.

We can't interact easily with others. This is a world full of conflict. Interaction is its own challenge IMHO.

In any case, the "choice" with scavenger is: I'll pick scavenger and be able to search for hidden exits OR I can pick one of the other subguilds. Clearly, this choice isn't sensible. Search should be like forage. Everyone gets a bit of that skill. What's so special about tapping on a wall to hear if it's a fake wall?

[Dakota]

Yeah I think this whole thread was started to try and move Search and Forage Food to other classes/guilds, which as I've scoured through these forums, is a common plea.

As a n00b, I like the idea of the Scavenger class (read in an older post that it also gives bonuses to foraging artifacts.. dunno if that's true, but it's cool if it does).

The ONLY class I could see meriting the Search skill would be BURGLAR, as they inherently LOOK out for things that are out of place / other ways to get into things / strange hiding places.

Beyond that I think it's fine. Very tempted to make one just to explore this world even more.

[spawnloser]

If search and forage food are both given to any one single subguild, scavenger subguild becomes obsolete.  Period.  I'm not saying this should or shouldn't happen, but understand that this is true.

[Reiteration]

I think forage food should remain where it is, if food was easy enough to obtain that anybody could pick it up, you'd be typing 'get <food>'.

[Potaje]

In any case, the "choice" with scavenger is: I'll pick scavenger and be able to search for hidden exits OR I can pick one of the other subguilds. Clearly, this choice isn't sensible. Search should be like forage. Everyone gets a bit of that skill. What's so special about tapping on a wall to hear if it's a fake wall?


[/quote]

There is a point, taping on a wall may find a hollow behind it, however search is more than I just look around, search is the ability to understand what your looking at, to know the nuances in how to look for that which is concealed, much like every class does not scan. Not only this but what does one look for once one realizes that there may be more to the wall than just stone, where to find the level, button, key hole, pressure plate. Perhaps even an understanding that the draft of air one feels comes from a crack, or this tapestry seems out of place. Not everyone, even if they search actively, is aware enough to discover these understandings. And so gives purpose to those that can.

[Saellyn]

Speak for yourselvs. I'm a psionisorcewarranglarpocket with armoweaposcaventailonomalinguiacroarcher as a subguild (:

Idn' that right Nyr?

However on a serious note the one time(or maybe more???) that I played scavenger I didn't exercise all of its abilities because I didn't pick it for those. But I agree with keeping it the same mainly because it has the skills it needs to fit its class type.

Although climbing might make sense to be given to that subclass, it already gets a -lot- of nice stuff as it is. It really does.

DSense just OP's it a lot. You might as well give it hunt, sneak, hide, brew and poison, bandaging, archery and make it a Ranger at that point.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Uh... scavenger already HAS climb.

From subguild scavenger helpfile:

Subguild Scavenger     (Character)

Scavengers, skilled in surviving the wilds, particularly ruins such as those of Tuluk, are able to find food where others might not. They are quick to find items and have a shrewd eye towards their possible worth. In order to find objects out of reach of others they have learned to find paths that aren't apparent to the casual observer, and go into caves, windows, and holes in the wall which require a short climb.

ALTHOUGH: I do wish that the first part of the helpfile was true as well. :| Might be lovely to have wilderness quit or storm nav, even if it meant forsaking other things in there. I would personally love to see a sub with:

Subguild Grebber     (Character)

Grebbers, skilled in surviving the wilds (desert nav), and are able to find food where others might not (food foraging). They are quick to find items (boosted forage) and have a in order to find objects out of reach of others they have  been known to poke around through ruins, salt flats, and go into caves, windows, and holes in the wall which require a short climb.

/subguild grebber.

Storm nav
food foraging
boost to overall forage
and climb.

[spawnloser]

Nah, better:

Subguild Survivalist     (Character)

Survivalists aren't any better at much than most people, but what they are pretty decent at is getting from one place to the next through the wastes.  They have a good sense of where they're going (direction sense) and can get past many obstacles (climb).  They can keep themselves fed too, having a knack for finding edible roots (food forage) and cleaning their kills (skinning).

[AmandaGreathouse]

Nah, better:

Subguild Survivalist     (Character)

Survivalists aren't any better at much than most people, but what they are pretty decent at is getting from one place to the next through the wastes.  They have a good sense of where they're going (direction sense) and can get past many obstacles (climb).  They can keep themselves fed too, having a knack for finding edible roots (food forage) and cleaning their kills (skinning).

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

I would, literally, almost always play this sub when I wasn't looking for a side of crafting.

Nothing, IMO, fits in better with the harsh, extremely survival of the fittest setting, as much as... having the basic skills to survive.

[spawnloser]

Sometimes I can knock one out of the park, there, huh?

[FantasyWriter]

Sometimes I can knock one out of the park, there, huh?

This time for sho!