City-elf playability changes?

[Synthesis]

I always like to imagine the drastic shake-up in play the game would experience if PC elves were represented in the same proportion as they supposedly are in the population overall.

But I completely understand why folks don't care for playing them...I've ranted about it at length, elsewhere.

[Dar]

I love playing celves and delves. They are entirely different from each other, and yet the same. Their gameplay is compleyely different from playing humans though. There "are" clans that hire elves. Especially in the labyrinth. The problem and 'beauty' of it though, is that it is 'difficult'. Not a 'nuisance' difficult, but 'rp' difficult to be part of a clan for an elf. Mainly due to all the trust issues. Stuff just does not come easy for elves in terms of trust and that's a great thing.

Celves are very playable right now, but their gameplay "is" different and 'not' easy. I'm in full support of people who say Celves should be a karma race. Not because it is any particular way stronger then non karma races (I'd argue the opposite), but due to the complexity of the mindset.

[Timetwister]

. Barring that, since this game is decidely NOT dark sun, why can't some city-elves who make their living outdoors overcome their pride and ride, or use mounts to save their own lives?

Ironically in Dark Sun there are no city elves/desert elves. It's just Elf. They all have the "running mind state" that they can enter and start their olympic marathon across the wastes. Just pointing that out..

Oh. Also there was an elf in the Dark Sun books that did ride a kank. He was around 200 years old though and couldn't run for shit anymore, and had risen in rank to become the right-hand man of a sorcerer king which was pretty cool.

[Malifaxis]

. Barring that, since this game is decidely NOT dark sun, why can't some city-elves who make their living outdoors overcome their pride and ride, or use mounts to save their own lives?

Ironically in Dark Sun there are no city elves/desert elves. It's just Elf. They all have the "running mind state" that they can enter and start their olympic marathon across the wastes. Just pointing that out..

Oh. Also there was an elf in the Dark Sun books that did ride a kank. He was around 200 years old though and couldn't run for shit anymore, and had risen in rank to become the right-hand man of a sorcerer king which was pretty cool.

I don't see any irony here.

[Timetwister]

I don't see any irony here.

The fact that he said it's not Dark Sun. Yet in that setting the elves, regardless of where they live can enter their mental running state and take off. This isn't true on Arm, which obviously has DS influences.

[spawnloser]

In Dark Sun, it's not a 'running state' like some altered state of mind or anything.  It's like they're all d.elves as far as running ability goes, in Arm terms.  (In D&D2e terms this means they all have the 'running' proficiency.)  Others can get that proficiency too, though.

As far as Arm goes, though, I have long been a proponent of getting rid of the celf/delf distinction and only have an elf race.  Maybe make the elf running ability not as effective as delfs get it but better than celfs, whatever.  The specifics are malleable.

[Timetwister]

Ah I think you're right. I don't know why i thought they had to meditate or something. I guess I'm confusing it with something else. I found this though:
http://darkoftheday.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=dsraces&action=print&thread=1044

[Incognito]

C-elf playability has been discussed many times. In most cases, the issue stems from their not having as many movement points as d-elves added to the fact that they do not ride, thus rendering them difficult to play - in locations that require the PC to commute long distances. This issue is further emphasized when their desert-cousins contrarily have so many movement points, that they can almost run across the Known World without needing to rest much.

I think to make things equal for c-elves not being able to run outdoors (added to the fact that they don't ride), d-elves should get a massive negative modifier when they are within cities or using any man-made roads. Its unrealistic and unfair to see d-elves fit in and run around with all those movement points, inside cities, without even a hint of being out of their element!

In fact, it would be fair to c-elves and d-elves, if all the man-made roads (i.e. North Road and others), give c-elves a city-like positive movement modifier and d-elves a similar city-like negative modifier.

That'll allow city elves a relatively higher mobility than they currently have - which is desperately needed, while giving the desert elves a fair balancing negative modifier when they decide to use man-made roads instead of the natural ones, to which they are used to.

Mind you - I'm specifically not saying that c-elves should get more movement points, coz that'd just be a crude workaround to the real issue, which is the adaptability of c-elves and d-elves to different terrains, and, man-made roads anywhere in the Known World, being more akin to city terrain and less like natural terrain.

[Nyr]

Three of the four GMHs do not hire elves, because they are slippery thieving scum.  Only one of them puts that kind of slippery thieving scum to use.

Errrr.  I think NPCs were mentioned.  And while this is correct on a PC level, I am not sure it is on an NPC level.  Trying to think of an example off the top of my head...the Salarri shops in Tuluk, I think?

*waves his hand*  This elf has always been a half-elf.  Also, these are not the droids you are looking for.

[Armaddict]

*Becomes a zombie*

No way dude, that salarri is a half-elf.  Everyone knows that.

[creepyguy]

In fact, it would be fair to c-elves and d-elves, if all the man-made roads (i.e. North Road and others), give c-elves a city-like positive movement modifier and d-elves a similar city-like negative modifier.

Thank you for this. I think this is pretty much what I had in mind to help balance c-elves and allow them some chance of getting to a "safe" city within a day.

[X-D]

There already is balance.

Here, let me give the syntax.

Code Select Expand

drop tent

make tent

enter tent

[jhunter]

There already is balance.

Here, let me give the syntax.

Code Select Expand

drop tent

make tent

enter tent

Hahahah..

[Spider]

City Elves can navigate the world just fine. Probably in a more realistic sense, as far as time frame, than most of the travel going on.

City Elves have a slew of tribes to choose from these days in every city state, both coded and uncoded, you just have to find them.

City Elf stats are fine, if not great, for any guild you choose upon creation.

Socialization for City Elves match the documentation quite well.

What's the playability problem here?

[brytta.leofa]

City Elves have a slew of tribes to choose from these days in every city state, both coded and uncoded, you just have to find them.

..."find them?"  I want to (hypothetically) play a city elf, not scalp one.

[creepyguy]

City Elves have a slew of tribes to choose from these days in every city state, both coded and uncoded, you just have to find them.

What's the playability problem here?

The problem with city-elf tribes is, that there is only 1 listed as being open in the clan docs. I know you say to find out IC for others, but how is a player supposed to apply to create a family member already in one of these tribes if they are not listed publicly anywhere? This should be an option since joining one through play could take IG years to become trusted and fully part of one. And with none being listed as being open in the clan docs, it makes players planning on playing a city-elf assume that there are no tribes for them to join and so they create characters with backgrounds of being loners since they do not know there are other options.

[Nyr]

There are two tribes open.  I thought there was an entry on this already, but there was not.  I added one and will flesh it out later.
Akai Sjir
Jaxa Pah

[brytta.leofa]

Jaxa Pah

Awesome.  I was totally unaware of this.

[HavokBlue]

Nice to see the Jaxa get added to the list. They're fun people. 

[Intrepid]

I've definitely been happy to see city elves with clans again.  It seems that Rinthi elves in particular have been lost since the previous city clans had been closed.

[a strange shadow]

There already is balance.

Here, let me give the syntax.

Code Select Expand

drop tent

make tent

enter tent

kill tent

[AI Fashion and Swag]

There already is balance.

Here, let me give the syntax.

Code Select Expand

drop tent

make tent

enter tent

kill tent

guard tent

[racurtne]

There already is balance.

Here, let me give the syntax.

Code Select Expand

drop tent

make tent

enter tent

kill tent

guard tent

Lol, at this point I think "rescue tent" is necessary.

On topic: The city-elf clans have been revealed, they have opportunities, you just have to be an elf about it. You know, sneaky sneaky.

[Incognito]

There already is balance.

Here, let me give the syntax.

Code Select Expand

drop tent

make tent

enter tent

X-D, gonna have to disagree with you on this one - it would be a rare c-elf PC, who would be able to carry around personal belongings AND an extra tent, and still have a low enough encumberance to allow for city-to-city mobility.

Edited to add:
Besides, what is the justification in d-elves having zero movement penalties inside cities and on man-made terrain, when their city cousins get a distinctive negative modifier when they are outdoors?

[Spoon]

Add 'hitch kank'

But yes, just like city/wilderness sneak and hide, desert-elves should have a lot of difficulty running through crowds. The problem at present is, as has already been mentioned, that even with their modifiers desert-elves could outrun city-elves. If that's a problem, though. City-elf running could be what's left over of their running ability, so rather it's a bonus for city elves compared to other city-dwellers because they have retained some running ability -and- adapted to the city.