City-elf playability changes?

[creepyguy]

Instead of dragging up an old topic, I thought I'd start a new one to see if anything has been done or is about to be.

Elf love is coming, from what I understand.

and:

Thought has been given to city elves lately.

I just finished reading through this whole topic. http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,34139.0.html
Trying to play a city-elf not in the rinth is indeed quite difficult. Other's rp seems to try to drive a relatively law abiding elf into the rinth or out the gates. Since this seems to have been going on regularly for years, is there any thought to give city-elf some way to cope outdoors or a coded tribe to back them up?
I think several people's suggestion of giving c-elves the same or close to coded ability of d-elves to move outdoors while keeping their stamina at current levels would be a good compromise, allowing them to move further than 20 or so rooms from a city before collapsing and waiting to be eaten. Barring that, since this game is decidely NOT dark sun, why can't some city-elves who make their living outdoors overcome their pride and ride, or use mounts to save their own lives?
I just would like to hear a staff opinion on this since so far I only saw them make statements about their stats, which aren't even really the issue at hand.
Thank you, and discuss.

[Spoon]

As for the two quotes you've used, they refer to coded tribes with sponsored roles that were opened/created at the time.

It seems elves are never going to ride in Armageddon. As far as I see it, playing a city elf is an extremely challenging role, one which some people simply cannot deal with. These people sometimes post threads claiming how broken and useless city elves are. Personally, I think it's a matter of preferance.

[Armaddict]

City-elves are my favorite race to role-play.

[Is Friday]

I don't think celves need anything to be more awesome. They already have the means to be extremely powerful codedly and politically (in a way.)

Besides being a blast to play, they do have the most 'powerful' kinship of any race. (So long as they belong to a tribe.) That in itself lends the celf unparalleled advantages.

[creepyguy]

I don't think celves need anything to be more awesome. They already have the means to be extremely powerful codedly and politically (in a way.)

Besides being a blast to play, they do have the most 'powerful' kinship of any race. (So long as they belong to a tribe.) That in itself lends the celf unparalleled advantages.

Where are these tribes then in 3 out of the 4 major population centers?
What I'm saying is, with a lack of coded clans to belong to, c-elves are easy pickings for anyone bored and wanting to flex their racism rp. This forces them either to the rinth, or outside.

Related to this, since its been stated several times that c-elves and d-elves are genetically the same race, just with different habits and lifestyles, why can't c-elves at least have some fraction of a d-elves movement abilities outside? I'm just asking for some middle-ground so that c-elves can, when things get tough where they are, realistically be able to pack up and flee town for easier pickings.
If this isn't to be coded, I'd like to hear from staff member about if it would ever be possible for a c-elf to train or learn the d-elf running skills? Such as a few years of living with a d-elf tribe or running by themselves along the outside roads and sending in years of logs. I just want to know if the possibility exists, not that every elf who steps outside will automatically be granted it.

[Is Friday]

I think that's part of what makes the celf so appealing.

Besides which--you don't play a delf and get the coded benefits without playing in a clan. It's required to.

You don't get the roleplayed benefits of playing a celf without playing in a tribe. It's not required to.

If anything, celves are more flexible for roles than delves. If you find it too hard, don't play one. If you want to have an easy time codedly or otherwise, pick human, or even half-elf. Don't petition to reduce the variety we have available to us.

[netflix]

C-elf and D-elf may share a common gene pool from a few dozen generations back, but that doesn't mean they're the same. Just look at earth, all humans spring from the same gene pool, but generation after generation, various segments of humanity have adapted to their environment. Body hair, skin pigmentation, muscle and bone growth, etc. These are things that a person is born with, and cannot be learned/trained/adjusted to (at least not to the extent that the "native" population had adapted over time.)

I'd say you should think of D-elf and C-elf as the same species (Like Earth Human are) but different races (Asian, African, Latin, Anglo, etc).

[Semper]

To play a city-elf in Allanak, without being from the rinth, is certainly hard. Really the only way for one to live in the commons without ever setting foot in the rinth is having a wide network and playing it smart. It's doable though, as with any role.

Almost all elven deaths, or actions leading to their demise, is from them being stupidly prideful. Sure you'll get harassed in situations, but an elf (or any PC at that) will rarely ever be killed without having done something to give suspicion or a reason.

[Synthesis]

If you haven't found any members of the coded city-elf tribes in Tuluk or Allanak, you really haven't been trying very hard.

[X-D]

And remember, delves don't like celves any more then they like anybody else outside tribe.

The odds of a celf living in the wilderness for a long enough time to muscle up and be able to run like a delf is pretty much 0, though higher then a celf being able to live with a delf tribe as anything other then slave that cannot leave the camp.

[janeshephard]

I played one city elf in the rinth and stored. It was an experiment.

No. The situation is crap.

You're either on when the clan is or not. City elves ought to be able to go indie and be successful.

IMHO.

[Qzzrbl]

I played one city elf in the rinth and stored. It was an experiment.

No. The situation is crap.

You're either on when the clan is or not. City elves ought to be able to go indie and be successful.

IMHO.

Make your own tribe?

And C-elves -can- be indie and successful..... Ever tried a c-elf burglar?

[Jingo]

The staff have given the c-elves some love in the last year or so.

The only thing I really really want to see is openings for elves in the other two merchant clans.

[Armaddict]

I played one city elf in the rinth and stored. It was an experiment.

No. The situation is crap.

You're either on when the clan is or not. City elves ought to be able to go indie and be successful.

IMHO.

The situation is crap because you played one experimental city elf, didn't like it, and stored?

You know this game just way too well.

[titansfan]

I personally love city elves and everything about them. There are plenty of ways to make one successful without having to kiss everyone's ass. Quite some time ago I played a rather well off city elf who had gained quite a bit of power in multiple areas of the game world. I have also witnessed quite a few other rather well off and very well roleplayed city elves in my time, it takes some work, yes....but that makes it well worth it. They have their own positives that d-elves just don't have....coded tribes have been opened and made available for anyone wishing to find them IG. That being said, look just a weeeeeeeee bit harder in-game and you will be successful.

Just my two sids...

[Spice Spice Baby]

I've met clanned city elves in Tuluk and Allanak recently. If you aren't encountering any, you either aren't looking in the right places or it might be a playtimes issue.

[Cutthroat]

There are clanned elven NPCs in all the merchant clans, I think. Don't really get why PCs aren't hired outside of a particular employer's preference.

That said, it is very possible to play a city elf in any city, clanned or unclanned, and do so successfully. It takes a far greater effort to do so than with a human... and as well it should, just like all the other non-human races.

[Barzalene]

I played one city elf in the rinth and stored. It was an experiment.

No. The situation is crap.

You're either on when the clan is or not. City elves ought to be able to go indie and be successful.

IMHO.

I have to disagree with this. I think that if you want to go indie that you should play a human or half-elf (or hg or mul or dwarf) because it is psychologically consistent with what those races are. Elves however, whether delf celf are tribal creatures. Being part of the tribe is what they are.

I don't know for sure that is impossible, but I think it's difficult to play an elf, as an elf without a tribe. I believe one may be intregal to the other.

[Barzalene]

If however instead of changing city elves one argued that there should be more coded tribes to belong to, that might resonate more for me.

[Niamh]

There are clanned elven NPCs in all the merchant clans, I think. Don't really get why PCs aren't hired outside of a particular employer's preference.

Three of the four GMHs do not hire elves, because they are slippery thieving scum.  Only one of them puts that kind of slippery thieving scum to use.


Regarding enjoyment or lack thereof of playing any particular race/guild/clan, it could be for a few reasons.

• You haven't fully explored all the possibilities of that role and given it sufficient chance to prove itself to be enjoyable.
• You're too focused on the limitations rather than the advantages.
• Or, that type of role simply isn't for you.

Elves are more challenging because of their reputation and limitations.  The only race that truly has no limitations are humans.

[janeshephard]

I've met clanned city elves in Tuluk and Allanak recently. If you aren't encountering any, you either aren't looking in the right places or it might be a playtimes issue.

It was playtimes I think. Either way I found I don't have a high tolerance for "challenging" roles so I don't go for them anymore

[Twilight]

Three of the four GMHs do not hire elves, because they are slippery thieving scum.  Only one of them puts that kind of slippery thieving scum to use.

Errrr.  I think NPCs were mentioned.  And while this is correct on a PC level, I am not sure it is on an NPC level.  Trying to think of an example off the top of my head...the Salarri shops in Tuluk, I think?

[Jingo]

Three of the four GMHs do not hire elves, because they are slippery thieving scum.  Only one of them puts that kind of slippery thieving scum to use.

Errrr.  I think NPCs were mentioned.  And while this is correct on a PC level, I am not sure it is on an NPC level.  Trying to think of an example off the top of my head...the Salarri shops in Tuluk, I think?

There are or were elven militia in Redstorm. There were also elven PCs in Salarr in the past.

I find it frusterating that players and even staff think that only one facet of of the documentation is true. Elves are not always 'slippery thieving scum'. Potentially, elves can be the most loyal employee a merchant house has ever had.

[Is Friday]

Red Storm is a different case. They have muls as militia, too.

[Durant]

Three of the four GMHs do not hire elves, because they are slippery thieving scum.  Only one of them puts that kind of slippery thieving scum to use.

Errrr.  I think NPCs were mentioned.  And while this is correct on a PC level, I am not sure it is on an NPC level.  Trying to think of an example off the top of my head...the Salarri shops in Tuluk, I think?

There are or were elven militia in Redstorm. There were also elven PCs in Salarr in the past.

I find it frusterating that players and even staff think that only one facet of of the documentation is true. Elves are not always 'slippery thieving scum'. Potentially, elves can be the most loyal employee a merchant house has ever had.

I love the "Long Con"!