Economy Split - Dorm/Clanned Apartment idea

[Taven]

I think clans should have 'free apartments' in their compounds.  Have them accessible from outside the compound.  They are only free to those clanned for that GMH/noble.  This gives them better places to live than the communal barracks.  You KNOW one of the biggest reasons that clanned bitch about this is because of how much they have to work for an apartment, because they all have to have one.  Hell, maybe more than one, some of these people.  (I hate you people that get like a half dozen apartments with ONE character, by the way.  Oh, and, "I have too much stuff for one apartment," bullshit?  Yeah, you have all that stupid trash why?)  There, now that's a proper coin sink.

Actually, that would be an interesting notion. And making it so that the rooms (save perhaps those of PCs of sufficient rank) don't have locks, which would mean there'd be very little added adminstrative work for PC leaders and clan staff, and would permit PC leaders to gain access to said grunts apartments if need be (and before people cry out about privacy and so, no, you don't have any rights). These rooms, save for the ranking PC rooms, could be "nice", since there's a level of control over the tennants, though would certainly be tiny.

It makes sense, in a way. One thing I've always wondered about, when you have, say, Salarr, with say, 2,000 employees in a city. Are all of these 2,000 people expected to be living in the estate's single bunk room? Just how large are these estates? Does the GMH expect their employees to live elsewhere, when the very cheapest of apartments cost -more- then most of them make?

Call it a dorm. Smack a clanned guard on the door akin to the various estates and barracks already established (said barracks being upgraded into dorms themselves). And the burglars scream out about not being able to get in? Well, regular apartments are in such high demand, it sometimes being impossible to find one after weeks of looking, I doubt the burglars are going to find a drop in business. Since most House employees typically keep all their valuables in barracks lockers anyway.

I like the idea of the dorms, it seems like a good way to deal with both giving clanned people more coin to spend, and freeing up apartments. I think one thing that would have to be allowed for this to work would be having non-clannies into the apartments, however. Whether being used for musexx0ring or a fabulous party, the allure of an actual apartment as opposed to the current barracks system is that you can actually have people over. To keep having a "private apartment" in the terms of a dorm from being an unreasonable luxury, the rooms could be kept fairly small and grow in accordance to clanned rank or the rooms could be shared with one or more other people.

What does everyone else think?

[Kryos]

Yes.

[Lizzie]

If the dorm is within the clan compound, then I think it's pretty pointless. I mean, unless you're wanting to mudsex with a fellow clanmate. Otherwise, which clan on the list will allow visitors in to semi-private rooms within the estate compound? As far as I know, the only people allowed past the clan gate/door guard, are clanned people, and visitors escorted in by Officers/Higher Ranking Members, primarly for the purpose of Clan business.

If the dorm is outside the compound, then sure I can see the possibility. But then, why would a clan want to create a dorm room, complete with a guard, outside the clan compound, primarily so that its lower-ranking members can have sex with people of another clan?

Storage already exists, so they don't need that. Cots already exist, so they don't need that. What else would they use these for, if not sex? And why would the clan care enough to bother funding the creation of an entire building outside the confines of the clan property, to give private rooms for individual clan members, some of whom will be dead tomorrow?

If clan members really need it, you might be better off petitioning to just have a "cozy lounge with a curtain" added to the main bunkroom so that if people really have some burning need to get their rocks off with their clanmate, they can do so without the entire VNPC barracks population watching.

[Qzzrbl]

Do it in an alley like the dirty commoners you are. 

[Taven]

Storage already exists, so they don't need that. Cots already exist, so they don't need that. What else would they use these for, if not sex? And why would the clan care enough to bother funding the creation of an entire building outside the confines of the clan property, to give private rooms for individual clan members, some of whom will be dead tomorrow?

Apartments can be used for a variety of reasons that aren't sleeping or storage. Sometimes, it's to have a private meeting place to talk with people, or a place to have someone over to relax. Sometimes it's a place to host a private party that you don't want any Amos-the-breed wandering in on. Sometimes it's the perfect place for that communal game of strip kruth, or a game with dares you can't do in public. Sometimes, yes, it's for mudsex. It all depends on who your character is, and what they want out of it.

Right now if a clanned PC wants any of that, despite having a cot and storage space, they have to rent an apartment. This uses up their coin on apartments (discussed in the Economy thread), and also takes up limited apartment space. I don't think it would be completely far-fetched to have dorm rooms, particularly not if they were small and shared with people. Sure, you'd have to check with your roomie to make sure you could do whatever event you wanted to accomplish, but you'd have a semi-private place that was still clan-related.

If getting into clan compounds is an issue, the building could be made to have an entrance next to the main one, connecting to the main clan compound. That way people not of the clan could be let in to the dorm rooms, if accompanied by a guest. It would still be on clan property, but not provide access to the main section.

[netflix]

My idea was to have the "dorms" in the city centers, like the various noble guard barracks around the common quarter in Allanak. The buildings would have a clanned door guard. All but higher ranking PC apartments would be lockless. The rooms themselves would vary in size, perhaps recruits would share a central area, like current barracks. First rank would get a place big enough for a bed and locker. Second rank would get slightly larger, etc etc. The goal -wouldn't- be to give them a new means of uber storage, so room weight caps would be set accordingly. And that they would be allowed to bring non-clanned members in. But that they would, of course, be responsible for them.

[Sinna]

I love the idea of outside accessible free-rent to certain ranked clanned - once you achieve something above provisional status you might be alotted one on a "first come, first serve" basis.  Better quality locks also, then that which is available in a common apartment and perhaps an occasional passing clan guard.

Also, I would favor, in general (speaking of apartment security and someone who loves playing thieves) rentable NPC guards to station within your apartment.

[LauraMars]

I like the idea, but let me play the devil's advocate and say that perhaps staff are worried that their clan members will spend all their time mudsexxing/plotting/arranging furniture in their clan apartments instead of out interacting with the world.

[Sephiroto]

What's wrong with having sex in the barracks?

[BlackMagic0]

What's wrong with having sex in the barracks?

Nothing.

I think far better.. Then someone else can join in!

No one has morals in Zalanthas!

[Aaron Goulet]

I like the idea, but let me play the devil's advocate and say that perhaps staff are worried that their clan members will spend all their time mudsexxing/plotting/arranging furniture in their clan apartments instead of out interacting with the world.

Which they do anyway, just in their regular, rented apartments instead of their clan-hosted apartments.   

[netflix]

I like the idea, but let me play the devil's advocate and say that perhaps staff are worried that their clan members will spend all their time mudsexxing/plotting/arranging furniture in their clan apartments instead of out interacting with the world.

Which they do anyway, just in their regular, rented apartments instead of their clan-hosted apartments.   

Exactly. Between already having normal apartments, and already hanging out in clan estates or exiting barracks or whatever, I doubt this would take clannies out of the public anymore then they already are. If players wanna sex it up, they're -always- gonna find a spot to do it in, one way or the other.

They should also be as secure as a clan's formal guarded currently existing barracks whatever place. And this wouldn't be a "no fair for them to get that" thing, cause it'd be nothing more then they already have. Pretty much every clan gives lockers, and these lockers are in spots that all but the most brilliant thief will never get to (save inside jobs, which in dorms where all but the high end rooms are locked, is still a possibility).

[Lizzie]

I like the idea, but let me play the devil's advocate and say that perhaps staff are worried that their clan members will spend all their time mudsexxing/plotting/arranging furniture in their clan apartments instead of out interacting with the world.

Which they do anyway, just in their regular, rented apartments instead of their clan-hosted apartments.   

Exactly. Between already having normal apartments, and already hanging out in clan estates or exiting barracks or whatever, I doubt this would take clannies out of the public anymore then they already are. If players wanna sex it up, they're -always- gonna find a spot to do it in, one way or the other.

They should also be as secure as a clan's formal guarded currently existing barracks whatever place. And this wouldn't be a "no fair for them to get that" thing, cause it'd be nothing more then they already have. Pretty much every clan gives lockers, and these lockers are in spots that all but the most brilliant thief will never get to (save inside jobs, which in dorms where all but the high end rooms are locked, is still a possibility).

You're missing the part about how the reason those currently existing clan barracks have guards, is because they're behind the gates of the clan's estate, or compound. Some clans already have more than one building within the cities..I can think of two noble houses in Allanak, both of which have -three- different pieces of property exclusively for clanned characters.

Also, if they already have storage, and already have security, and already have normal apartments as you say, then what, exactly, would they need more personal private space, and storage for? They already HAVE this. And anyone complaining about lack of apartments is just plain not looking in the right place, or being picky. In Tuluk I know of two buildings which are almost always COMPLETELY vacant. Granted, they're also not the nicest or secure, but if you're a recruit who isn't trying to turn his apartment into a warehouse for stockpiling valueable shit that your recruit self has no business possessing anyway, then really you don't need anying more than a mat and a door.

I'm all in favor of having semi-private lounges INSIDE clan compounds. But I don't think we need to add yet -another- set of isolation-providing buildings. Most of the clan compounds have offices and lounges, however only certain people with certain rank/privilege have access to them. If you feel that lower ranks should have access to them, or have access to their own offices and lounges, why not take it up IC with your clan superior, and e-mail to the clan staff to see if they'd entertain the idea?

If all you're looking for is MORE storage..well maybe you just have too much stuff.

[netflix]

In response ta Liz, since I'm to lazy to do all them quotes...

As I mentioned in I think the original post, the idea was for clans with existing "barracks" to have said barracks upgraded into dorms. Have all the training and meeting areas intact, add bedrooms.

As for storage, if a clan had said dorms, those clans where people had estate/compound barracks with lockers, said lockers and barracks would be removed. Perhaps just converted into some sort of social lounge area. As I've stated twice, the idea involves -no- additional storage. Simply an apartment-like environment that a clan member would get without having to pay for rented apartments.

[Sinna]

In reference to clans having more than one building for clannies, I think more than one building for a clan is a mistake because it does the same thing that two cities does to our population - and that's to spread it out too thin.

One building (with or without dorms, whatever) or estate for clannies should be enough. 

Then again, I think one city is enough too, but sadly Tek hasn't mashed Tuluk for good yet and things are looking a bit - tight - shall we say?

[Salt Merchant]

What's wrong with having sex in the barracks?

Having to ask for consent everytime someone arrives/leaves/logs in.

[Taven]

Also, if they already have storage, and already have security, and already have normal apartments as you say, then what, exactly, would they need more personal private space, and storage for?

I feel as if some reasons for this were already presented.

I'm all in favor of having semi-private lounges INSIDE clan compounds.

If clan members really need it, you might be better off petitioning to just have a "cozy lounge with a curtain" added to the main bunkroom so that if people really have some burning need to get their rocks off with their clanmate, they can do so without the entire VNPC barracks population watching.

The problem with this is that people would be restricted to having relationships with only clan members. That's very limiting.

[spawnloser]

Actually, my idea was envisioned more like this:  the clan would have another entrance to the compound, and going past this would be just like going into any other apartment using the script that we've all come to know and love.  You're handed your key, etc etc, you go to your apartment.  There is no access into the compound through this apartment building, because the security on this wouldn't be as tight as it is on the rest of the compound, but it would have the same security that we have now... a guard at the front door.  They would still be just as secure/vulnerable as other apartments.  They would BE an apartment.

The idea is to make it so that there is an apartment that clannies get so that they don't feel the need to go out and rent one, because they do.

I have known of characters that have an apartment in every building in town, and hopefully this would cut down on that a little bit.  If apartments got cleaned out when a new person rented them, that would be ideal too, cutting down on of the reasons people have so many apartments (playing apartment roulette to go profit off of someone that's rent has run out for whatever reason).

Fixing these two issues would start to equalize things between clannies and indies by first, getting rid of the old apartment roulette game that's been around since the apartment script went live a few years back and second, by creating a money sink for indies that doesn't exist for clannies.
thus causing a money sink for independents.

[Lizzie]

Not true Taven. They can get an apartment. Just like they can now. In Allanak, I've never visited/been there when there were -zero- vacancies. And yes I do check. There's always a room available somewhere in the city.

There are also back rooms of bars for 100 sids per visit.

In Tuluk, there are 2 entire buildings worth of apartments that are usually totally vacant, and dirt-cheap, and if all you're wanting is sex, it won't bother you that you can't store much in them or that they're mostly target practice for burglars.

There are rooftops and balconies and hidden nooks and crannies and abandoned buildings all over Allanak which wouldn't cost a single sid to use, if all you wanted to do in there was have sex or an occasional private talk with someone.

Clanned people need to have their clanned accommodations on their clan property. Now, having said that, I do think there's room for the general idea..

The merchant's quarter in Allanak is WAYYYYYYYYY over in east bum-fuck. But all the "action" and "customers" is WAYYYYY on the west side. What might be nice, is to see a building maybe down on Theyak's or Wall Road...a single building, with a dozen rooms for rent only to GMH underlings. The front door would have a guard, paid for by a collaboration of the GMHs. The rent could be minimized, but so could the duration of the lease. Say, 100 sids for 5 RL days.

This way, people who work for GMHs in Tuluk, who have need to be in Allanak temporarily, have a place near the stables and the Gaj and Red's where they can stow whatever they brought on their mounts without having to lug it around with them, maybe gather and cook the half dozen scrab heads for Chosen Lady Annalee... without having to dump their crap in the southern barracks since they're not there often enough to be assigned a locker. And they won't feel the need to take up one of the apartments for the full amount of time, spending the full amount of sids, just to be there a few days and then let the lease run out.

This, I would definitely like to see. Cheap short-term rentals with *limited* storage for GMH hunters/recruits near the Gaj.

[Lizzie]

Also, Spawnloser, I also know people who will rent an apartment in every available building. I can tell you with some measure of accuracy, that adding another building to access won't cut down on the number of buildings they rent in. It -might- add to it though.

[Cutthroat]

I think it is a neat idea, I'd just like to throw in a few comments.

I have known of characters that have an apartment in every building in town, and hopefully this would cut down on that a little bit.  If apartments got cleaned out when a new person rented them, that would be ideal too, cutting down on of the reasons people have so many apartments (playing apartment roulette to go profit off of someone that's rent has run out for whatever reason).

I wish that PCs were only able to rent one apartment per city. ICly, Nenyuk could place such a restriction because it ensures they will have more repeat customers, people that hold onto one apartment for years, instead of a guy that rents lots of apartments for one renting session. Otherwise, clanned people that do this will take their free apartment entitled to them by this idea and continue to do what you mentioned. But with a restriction in place, this idea would actually make more vacancies in public apartments, giving unclanned people a place to stay.

I like the idea, but let me play the devil's advocate and say that perhaps staff are worried that their clan members will spend all their time mudsexxing/plotting/arranging furniture in their clan apartments instead of out interacting with the world.

Perhaps. Apartments already provide some amount of this risk. Clan members can already rent apartments, provided they can come up with the money to do so.

I'm all in favor of having semi-private lounges INSIDE clan compounds.

Maybe splitting up the inner barracks is a more effective idea - if that's done, these places would basically be oversized footlockers with a cot in them. Nothing terribly fancy. Maybe even shared. I wouldn't want to see it any better than that, although maybe only slightly better for people of higher rank in clans. Granted, maybe this is something clan leaders can put work into adding to their facilities ICly, and work on setting up rules about visitors, etc.


House Whatever Barracks [N, E, S, W]
People are all over the place, etc. The exits lead to different parts of
the barracks and a row of doors at either side of the room lead to small
dormitories that people sometimes come out of or go into.

key door
1.door - outside a red door
2.door - outside an orange door
3.door - outside a yellow door
4.door - outside a green door
5.door - outside a blue door
6.door - outside an indigo door
7.door - outside a violet door

get key belt
You get a blue bone key from your belt.

enter blue
You enter outside a blue door.

Outside a Blue Door [E Leave]
A blue door is here with a keyhole and the rest of the barracks is around you.

unlock door
open door
e

A Dingy Dormitory [W]
This is not a fancy place, really. Paint is peeling off the walls. There
is a bunk bed for two people here, and a trunk off to one side of the room.
A small table is in the center.

[Schrodingers Cat]

Maybe just offer discounts/free rent at apartments to merchant house employees?

[musashi]

Something like this is done already for the bardic circles. It would be nice to see it extended to some clan compounds as well.

[Twilight]

Lets look at it IC'ly:  Most employees are peons.  A barracks with some limited amount of storage, all very public and supervisable, is good enough for them and they should feel fortunate to even have that.  Why exactly should an organization go through all this for their peons?

Lets look at it OOC'ly:  People want mudsex.  People want more storage than one chest.  People want a place to plot that is hard to overhear.  People want more than a simple peon would have.  I use "People" because I am oftimes not sure if I am talking about PCs or their players.  OOC'ly, I think barracks are a good extension of the grittiness of the world.  You don't have privacy (and don't expect it).  You get a minimal amount of things and you like it, because it is more than you've ever had before.  Your mom and dad made your brothers and sisters lying a couple of feet away from you in a dark tenement room that you share with two other families (their kids were made six feet away from you).

Edited to Add:  Having played in the days before automatted apartments, when likely the only storage you would ever get would be as being part of a clan, I think it really did encourage joining clans.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

No.

Twilight said it best - you're asking for more than a simple Peon would or should have. It's Zalanthas. Your clan doesn't have a Union rep. The cost, effort, and materials required to make these lodgings is far too staggering in an undeveloped world (Zalanthas) to even be considered. Not to mention that the finite space behind the wall doesn't allow for further expansion of a city or compound, really.

Honestly, if you're worth a shit, a lot of clans will already provide this for you. (Ie, many agents, Lts, etc already have their own bedrooms and dorms.)

You're in a land that has no luxury.