Discussion for Change to Storm/Darkness navigation

[brytta.leofa]

In my experience, elves are the greatest danger in Zalanthan sandstorms.

[Thunkkin]

In my experience, elves are the greatest danger in Zalanthan sandstorms.

It's actually the most accurate way to gauge the strength of a storm.  In common parlance, a heavy storm might be referred to as a "twelve-elver" while a lighter one might only be a "six elf."  The dreaded "Scores-o'-elves" storms, occurring only in the far reaches of the wilderness, have been known to rip boots right off a round-ear without him feeling it.

"Oh, had a bad storm on the way up then, eh?"
"Tha's th' feckin' truth!  'Twer a five score-o'-elves storm, at least.  Elves so thick it blocked out th'sun.  Took th'beetles right out from under us wit'out us even noticin' fer a few leagues."

[musashi]

A lot has ben said since I posted but I just wanted to tackle a few points in turn.

Hmmm. Not that I doubt you (I don't) but I'm thinking it probably depends on the force of the wind no? Like think  - katrina hurricane winds filled with sand and debri - I'd have to think that even holding hands it'd be possible for you to get the line broken and lose someone. Granted - it would be really hard for you to just wander off.  But the idea of someone getting hit with debris and losing the hand hold or falling and rolling in low visibility would be impossible to simulate with arm code. The idea of someone following you getting redirected a room is probably as close as we can get.

I think this is a misconception on your part, the bit about the code not being able to represent strong winds I mean. Not to give too much away about the game, but if you ever find your PC in a room with actual wind factor strong enough to uproot them from the ground, the code will SERIOUSLY let you know. This is already in game. So I'm forced to believe that since sandstorms don't do that ... it must mean we are getting lost in storms not from being blown away, but from a lack of visibility and being disoriented. Nyr went ahead and confirmed this after your post I believe ... sand storms are not rending flesh and bone ... if they were meant to, it would be coded that way. It has been coded that way in the areas that are supposed to have storms that terrible, as some of the more foolhardly explorers in the game likely know. So I don't buy that arguement.

Yeah, Ghost?  In the worst sandstorms out there, you have a lot more to worry about than getting turned around too, like flying sand that is abrasive enough to act like sandpaper to the point of taking all the flesh from your bones in less than a day.  You think those winds aren't as bad as the ones recorded in hurricane Katrina?

I think people should really consider how insane a real sandstorm is.  Most of us haven't been anywhere near a sandstorm like can develop in game.  They're super-scary, crazy-destructive forces of nature.  Having to take precautions and be skilled?  To all those that are complaining of this change, "Good," I say, "Deal with it and stop whining."

Again ... speaking as someone who spent over a year in the deserts of our world, dealing with the kinds of sandstorms we see in those really cool google pictures ... I feel pretty comfortable saying you're the one misinformed here. Sorry dude. Sandstorms don't disentegrate people, and if the Zalanthan sandstorms were supposed to, the code would be set up that way, because it's well within the code's ability to represent.

So for the above reasons, I'm still of the opinion that folks should follow the person they are following reguardless, and let the guide lead them where he will, for better ... or worse ... depending on how skilled an outdoorsman he is.

[Gagula]

I'm still of the opinion that folks should follow the person they are following reguardless, and let the guide lead them where he will, for better ... or worse ... depending on how skilled an outdoorsman he is.

The only reason I could see losing track of someone would be because of everyone being mounted.

[musashi]

I'm still of the opinion that folks should follow the person they are following reguardless, and let the guide lead them where he will, for better ... or worse ... depending on how skilled an outdoorsman he is.

The only reason I could see losing track of someone would be because of everyone being mounted.

Very valid counter point. And I would not mind in the slightest if folks had to dismount and trek through harsh storms on foot in order to not get spun around and lost. I'd prefer it, in fact.

That way only groups of badass rangers could move together mounted through storms.

[Majikal]

I'm still of the opinion that folks should follow the person they are following reguardless, and let the guide lead them where he will, for better ... or worse ... depending on how skilled an outdoorsman he is.

The only reason I could see losing track of someone would be because of everyone being mounted.

Very valid counter point. And I would not mind in the slightest if folks had to dismount and trek through harsh storms on foot in order to not get spun around and lost. I'd prefer it, in fact.

That way only groups of badass rangers could move together mounted through storms.

This does sound pretty awesome.

[jmordetsky]

I'm still of the opinion that folks should follow the person they are following reguardless, and let the guide lead them where he will, for better ... or worse ... depending on how skilled an outdoorsman he is.

The only reason I could see losing track of someone would be because of everyone being mounted.

Very valid counter point. And I would not mind in the slightest if folks had to dismount and trek through harsh storms on foot in order to not get spun around and lost. I'd prefer it, in fact.

That way only groups of badass rangers could move together mounted through storms.

This does sound pretty awesome.

That actually isn't a bad idea at all.

[X-D]

I don't mind that either...and use watch.

[jmordetsky]

Old man gets lost in Canadian [sand] storm
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2010/04/09/sk-wind-elderly-knocked-down.html?ref=rss

muhahahaa

[BlackMagic0]

Why can rangers no longer lead folks through storms? Its based off their desert nav skill?

So now rangers desert sense, means nothing to employers. Since they get lost?

Or need it mastered to lead folks?


Also I think you should be able to hitch a animal, and let someone mount it, to guide them through a storm. Since can't follow you anymore.

[netflix]

Why can rangers no longer lead folks through storms? Its based off their desert nav skill?

Rangers now give a "bonus" to storm nav for those following, that bonus being dependant on the actual skill level of the ranger in need. Those following will also really need those "special items" in those "special circumstances" or even the best of rangers with a maxed skill is still going to have a hard time leading a group through a storm without a few getting lost.

[BlackMagic0]

Why can rangers no longer lead folks through storms? Its based off their desert nav skill?

Rangers now give a "bonus" to storm nav for those following, that bonus being dependant on the actual skill level of the ranger in need. Those following will also really need those "special items" in those "special circumstances" or even the best of rangers with a maxed skill is still going to have a hard time leading a group through a storm without a few getting lost.

So ranger skill is checked, then a boost is given to all those following him.
So even with max skill, a ranger can most likely not lead a tregil through a storm. Unless got most 'special items' in game?

I dislike that. A lot.

Though if you could hitch your mount, and let someone else ride it. That would help- if guiding one person. Then could just guide creature- which follows automagicklly.

[Nyr]

Why can rangers no longer lead folks through storms? Its based off their desert nav skill?

Rangers now give a "bonus" to storm nav for those following, that bonus being dependant on the actual skill level of the ranger in need. Those following will also really need those "special items" in those "special circumstances" or even the best of rangers with a maxed skill is still going to have a hard time leading a group through a storm without a few getting lost.

So ranger skill is checked, then a boost is given to all those following him.
So even with max skill, a ranger can most likely not lead a tregil through a storm. Unless got most 'special items' in game?

I dislike that. A lot.

Though if you could hitch your mount, and let someone else ride it. That would help- if guiding one person. Then could just guide creature- which follows automagicklly.

I think you're misunderstanding the change.  Have you read the announcement and the things that Morgenes has written about it since the announcement, plus any changes?

[BlackMagic0]

Why can rangers no longer lead folks through storms? Its based off their desert nav skill?

Rangers now give a "bonus" to storm nav for those following, that bonus being dependant on the actual skill level of the ranger in need. Those following will also really need those "special items" in those "special circumstances" or even the best of rangers with a maxed skill is still going to have a hard time leading a group through a storm without a few getting lost.

So ranger skill is checked, then a boost is given to all those following him.
So even with max skill, a ranger can most likely not lead a tregil through a storm. Unless got most 'special items' in game?

I dislike that. A lot.

Though if you could hitch your mount, and let someone else ride it. That would help- if guiding one person. Then could just guide creature- which follows automagicklly.

I think you're misunderstanding the change.  Have you read the announcement and the things that Morgenes has written about it since the announcement, plus any changes?

I've been trying to catch up on all of it, as when was put in. Did not effect me. But, yes.
Though also talking about new personal experience too..


Am still reading all through this discussion, and such.

[jhunter]

Though if you could hitch your mount, and let someone else ride it. That would help- if guiding one person. Then could just guide creature- which follows automagicklly.

I think this is an awesome idea btw. All that would have to be changed is to make it so that anyone can mount the animal regardless of who it's hitched to but it can only be controlled by whomever has the reins. That would be a realistic and useful addition.

[jmordetsky]

Though if you could hitch your mount, and let someone else ride it. That would help- if guiding one person. Then could just guide creature- which follows automagicklly.

I think this is an awesome idea btw. All that would have to be changed is to make it so that anyone can mount the animal regardless of who it's hitched to but it can only be controlled by whomever has the reins. That would be a realistic and useful addition.

+1

[tortall]

Speaking from experience of a ranger with advanced storm navigation and plus what I believe are the items specified... We were suck in a storm where the people who were following me simply could NOT stay with me. They moved all over the place, with the exception of the ONE other who was a ranger. We were stuck out there for over 2 IG days, unable to get everyone out of the storm.


And before anyone freaks out on me mentioning sekrit IG stuff, only clannies were with me, and they already know my GBD name thanks to the clan boards.

Getting lost as a ranger is fine. Your followers scattering in numerous directions is NOT. If the leading ranger gets lost, all followers should STILL go the same direction as the ranger. Add to that other classes poor riding ability, made even worse in a storm... Nightmare.

[Morgenes]

Send me a log with what people were wearing and the weather command interspersed and I can investigate, but it sounds like they weren't properly equiped

[X-D]

Code Select Expand

The crusty byn sarge says to his troops, " Alright, today because it is storming, Trooper Malik will be leading us."

Trooper malik says, "Oh how many are there sarge?"

Crusty byn sarge says, "Gonna be six of us total."

Trooper malik says, "Oh, then I have to get supplies, you all meet me at the gates with your mounts in two hours."

Time passes, everybody is at the gates, trooper malik arrives.

Trooper malik begins passing out pink sunbonnets.

Trooper malik says, "Alright, you all have to wear these otherwise you will not be able to follow me."

The entire group looks at malik like he is crazy of course.

Crusty byn sarge holds up a pink sunbonnet and says, "Your kidding, I'm not wearing this, why anyway."

Trooper malik says, "I don't know...it is proper equipment, for some unknown reason your feet will not go in the direction you want without it."

Crusty byn sarge says, "Then what do we need you for...forget it, everybody to latrine cleaning!"



[Cutthroat]

Well, everyone going out, even with a guide, should be prepared for the weather, whether that means wearing pink sunbonnets or anything that actually makes sense to wear.

Ideally:
- Following a person with a higher direction sense than you should give you a boost based on their direction sense. Not 100% of what their skill is, but some hefty fraction of it.
- Followers should be equipped for desert travel. I don't think it's a lot to ask to wear desert gear before you go to the desert.

[jmordetsky]

Well, everyone going out, even with a guide, should be prepared for the weather, whether that means wearing pink sunbonnets or anything that actually makes sense to wear.

Ideally:
- Following a person with a higher direction sense than you should give you a boost based on their direction sense. Not 100% of what their skill is, but some hefty fraction of it.
- Followers should be equipped for desert travel. I don't think it's a lot to ask to wear desert gear before you go to the desert.

I've thought about this more since my last post - I think from a playability point of view - we should assume Musashi's suggestion that people are tethered, holding hands etc. Ie, the ranger can get lost but the followers cannot. Man - otherwise - byn trips etc are going to suck really badly due to the availability of said item(s).

[Nyr]

due to the availability of said item(s)

Availability (as of this morning) should be much less of a problem; inquire at likely locations in either city-state or Red Storm.

[Kryos]

Without getting too ic, and reinforcing the points made by staff so far, I  have to say the code is probably on the money.

[spawnloser]

I was playing someone that had perfect navigation.  I am now playing someone with subguild direction sense.  I have no idea what you guys are doing wrong.  I've had no problems, but then I've been wearing desert gear when going out in the desert and the same for those going with me.