Invisible 'look'.

[Salt Merchant]

I mean, I'm -always- going to look at PCs I run into in the wastes, especially if they want to try to raid me. If they're hooded and masked, I won't really look at the mdesc (and my characters don't have "miracle memory", either), but for fuck sakes, I want to see what I'm being threatened with. For example, if someone rolls up to my 'sid miner and they're blazing magickal effects and shit, he's -not- going to wait around to have a discussion. He's going to flip the fuck out, and he's going to flee at the first realistic opportunity. On the other hand, if the raider seems under-equipped and under-prepared, most of my characters would take the opportunity to turn the tables on them.

This got me thinking, why not implement a form of the look command that displays:

1. The sdesc.
2. Any visible magickal effects.
3. The visible equipment of the character being looked at.

Without any message to the character being looked at, since it represents indirect vision rather than a direct stare.

Raiders and muggers should have no objections.

[Dar]

Been discussed of so many times. I dont think anyone minds this or a variation of it. Personally right now, I sometimes do <look person's cloak/look person's patch/look person's ring/look person's gem> just to get the idea of their stature, etc. Without looking at them. That ... is "not" a solution, but still.

[mansa]

You could have look based on the watch skill people have.

[jmordetsky]

I mean, I'm -always- going to look at PCs I run into in the wastes, especially if they want to try to raid me. If they're hooded and masked, I won't really look at the mdesc (and my characters don't have "miracle memory", either), but for fuck sakes, I want to see what I'm being threatened with. For example, if someone rolls up to my 'sid miner and they're blazing magickal effects and shit, he's -not- going to wait around to have a discussion. He's going to flip the fuck out, and he's going to flee at the first realistic opportunity. On the other hand, if the raider seems under-equipped and under-prepared, most of my characters would take the opportunity to turn the tables on them.

This got me thinking, why not implement a form of the look command that displays:

1. The sdesc.
2. Any visible magickal effects.
3. The visible equipment of the character being looked at.

Without any message to the character being looked at, since it represents indirect vision rather than a direct stare.

Raiders and muggers should have no objections.

Could use Peek. Peek currently works for those with the skill - it doesn't show mdesc. It just shows equip but also "hidden" equip. Couldn't we make peek work for everyone but not show hidden stuffs or into containers?

*edit* and by could I mean if it were coded that way...not like you can now. I'm all for this.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I'm not. I can see your eye color. I can see your horns. Your tentacles. Your hair color. Your breasts (or lack therof) and much more. Or not. Depending on what's percieved from a LOOK. I don't like this. Without making it... almost impossibly more complicated, you won't be allowing for the full gamut of what would be observable. It would be a half-assed patch to a problem that is only a problem to people who wants to play people who break the law for a living without getting caught. It's bullshit. If you can't roll with someone giving you a LOOk, but you want to play a 'rp-intense' role like raider... well... whatever. I wish coded look was invisible or a hemote. You know why? Because as 'into roleplay' as you say you are, you're going to take:

emote Head inclined, @ looks up at ~raider, hair obstructing the shifting of her eyes.

And:

l raider (head inclined) [hair obstructing the shifting of her eyes] 

as if someone 'codedly' looked at your pc.

But there's a real good chance if I:

emote heaves and sobs, cowering from ~raider even as she looks up at !raider, averting her eyes immediately.

You would let them live. Because YOU the player KNOW they didn't use the look command.

Something which would be impossible to distinguish IC.

Sorry. Don't like it.

I know I'm snippy. Not meant to be snippy. I only mean to convey my strong vehemence in wishing they would make 'look' silent.

[BlackMagic0]

If they make 'look' silent.

Give us main description hiding gear.

Only way this should be ever implemented.

[Synthesis]

If they make 'look' silent.

Give us main description hiding gear.

Only way this should be ever implemented.

Did you even read the original post?

"Silent" look would only return equipment list, sdesc, and magickal effects (if present).  You don't need to hide your mdesc, because nobody would see it with the silent look, anyway.

[Reiteration]

Thought:

'GLANCE' should silently return immediate information only, such as wielded weapons, and some more noticeable information such as cloak, magickal auras and the likes.

'LOOK' should display an echo, showing detailed information including stuff like boots. As normally you aren't too occupied with feet. How often do you people look down at someone's shoes when you're 'GLANCING' at them?

[mansa]

I'm against any -new- kind of command, actually.  I'd rather have the current commands modified to suit the needs of everybody.


What's the real issue here?

There's two ways to look at characters right now:  Look and Assess

Look always displays an echo.
Assess doesn't always display an echo; whether to display an echo or not that someone is glancing at you is based on your characters "observational" watch skill.

Assess tells if people are armed.

• What if Assess also displayed observable magickal effects?
• What if Assess also displayed a value that tells if someone is well armed, or not well armed, or not well equiped?
• What if Look had the same "observational" characteristics that Assess has, whereas it will or will not echo to you based on your watch skill.

A new command, in my opinion, is not the correct code change.  I consider a new command like a new button to press on your keyboard.  I mean, how many times do you use the NUM LOCK button?   For some people, frequently.  For others, not at all.   A new command is like this, and you need to be careful when you create them and when you don't.  If you modify a current command to give more information, it will probably be used more often for everybody at hand.

[RogueGunslinger]

Assess man: reveals mdesc, age, height/weight, clothing, sdesc, items carried, items worn and echoes always

Look man: reveals sdesc, height/weight, and has the chance to be seen via 'Watch' skill

[BlackMagic0]

I did Synthesis. And would under equipment list be tattoos or scars? Or simply show the gear you are wearing (like I think peek? been a long time since I played a character with peek)?  And this silent look should echo based on if the raider/mugger is watching you, as I'll say if I was staring someone down about ready to murder them the minute they look at me so I can get away freely, and they even glanced at me. I'd assume they seen something that would give me away, noticeable clothing, marks, tattoos, or scars. Then dispose of them right then and there.


"Oh mister law man that guy had a blank scar, tattoo, or a very strange rare piece of clothing from the north. Maybe he is a northern guy, and had some bright pink pj bottoms too!"
EQ list is as easy a stamp as Mdesc to find someone. I'd live with the 'silent' 'peek' if it would echo when being watched, and it'd be understood its the same thing as looking at someone in RP. If caught its your own hide.

[Salt Merchant]

EQ list is as easy a stamp as Mdesc to find someone.

Then let the raider be smart enough to cover his scars with something and not wear the fluffy snugly scarf of ultra-redness to identify himself. Or maybe that can be his trademark and he takes it off before going into a city.

Changing garments and not having any distinguishing gear should be obvious procedure for aspiring raiders.

[BlackMagic0]

EQ list is as easy a stamp as Mdesc to find someone.

Then let the raider be smart enough to cover his scars with something and not wear the fluffy snugly scarf of ultra-redness to identify himself. Or maybe that can be his trademark and he takes it off before going into a city.

Changing garments and not having any distinguishing gear should be obvious procedure for aspiring raiders.

Those are all valid points.  Though the silent look needs to echo on being watched or echo chance based on watch skill.  Either way.

I actually laughed: And am hearing rumors of "The red racing scarfed bandit strikes again!"

[Kryos]

I brought up a thread like this a few months ago.  My purposing that people looking at every PC they see walk by, as they'd either need eyes in the back of their head or be constantly *staring* at everyone that walks by them,  was not well received.  The thoughts of 'no output' looks hit a mixed fence. 

I personally like emoted looks, but wish players didn't use macros to auto look at people moving about the crowded areas or the world, etc.

[RogueGunslinger]

In all my time playing I don't think I've seen someone use a macro to auto look at people...

[AmandaGreathouse]

In all my time playing I don't think I've seen someone use a macro to auto look at people...

Me either.

Then again... I know pretty much nothing about macros.

[janeshephard]

I brought up a thread like this a few months ago.  My purposing that people looking at every PC they see walk by, as they'd either need eyes in the back of their head or be constantly *staring* at everyone that walks by them,  was not well received.  The thoughts of 'no output' looks hit a mixed fence. 

I personally like emoted looks, but wish players didn't use macros to auto look at people moving about the crowded areas or the world, etc.

I always look at people while or before I talk to them even if I've seen them before. I want to be aware of any changes to the character.

Also, my hope is, look gives you a temporary "watch" for a few minutes. Just in case.

[jcarter]

I brought up a thread like this a few months ago.  My purposing that people looking at every PC they see walk by, as they'd either need eyes in the back of their head or be constantly *staring* at everyone that walks by them,  was not well received.  The thoughts of 'no output' looks hit a mixed fence.

The thing about look is that it's not just about retrieving the description. It's about seeing the equipment of the other person as well. Is this guy trying to rob you in the desert decked out in armor? Is it just some yokel wearing sandcloth clothes and waving a femur around? What about the tdesc? Are they covered in dirt, all beaten up looking, unusually clean for the area, or what? Maybe they've got a magickal effect on them that should be drawing attention to them from the VNPCs about them and cluing you in that there's a reason to attract your attention and they just forgot to toss out an emote about it as they passed you. There's a million and one what-ifs.

Look is just one of those things that yeah, it's not necessarily 100% realistic and does more than what it describes, but needs to be in the game and used for playability's sake.

You could have look based on the watch skill people have.

I really like this idea, but at the same time it seems like it's removing look emotes from a lot of people. You could have it report the look normally if there's an emote attached, but this just kind of comes off as a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

[Reiloth]

I'm against any -new- kind of command, actually.  I'd rather have the current commands modified to suit the needs of everybody.


What's the real issue here?

There's two ways to look at characters right now:  Look and Assess

Look always displays an echo.
Assess doesn't always display an echo; whether to display an echo or not that someone is glancing at you is based on your characters "observational" watch skill.

Assess tells if people are armed.

• What if Assess also displayed observable magickal effects?
• What if Assess also displayed a value that tells if someone is well armed, or not well armed, or not well equiped?
• What if Look had the same "observational" characteristics that Assess has, whereas it will or will not echo to you based on your watch skill.

A new command, in my opinion, is not the correct code change.  I consider a new command like a new button to press on your keyboard.  I mean, how many times do you use the NUM LOCK button?   For some people, frequently.  For others, not at all.   A new command is like this, and you need to be careful when you create them and when you don't.  If you modify a current command to give more information, it will probably be used more often for everybody at hand.

I agree with Mansa here. I think if Assess showed a few more things, and was treated more like an hemote that could be noticed when compared to watch, it'd be great.

[Synthesis]

Assess is treated like an hemote and compared to watch.

[jalden]

An invisible look would make sense.  Both adding to the assess command and adding a glance command would be good ways to do it.

If you are in a crowded bar, crowded street, or far away from someone in the desert looking at someone should only send an emote to people who are watching you.

How about?

assess/glance: What's in the person's hands, cloak or shirt/pants, magical effects, severely wounded -- only rings to people who are watching you

look: mdesc, equipment list, etc. -- everyone sees it because you are taking time to look the person over

Could also switch look and assess.