Discussion of the new stat policy

Gunnerblaster · January 24, 2010, 11:55:17 AM

Quote from: Nyr on January 24, 2010, 09:00:31 AM
You might recall that period of time--plenty of posts about how much stats blow, countered by people that say "well they aren't that important," complete with anecdotes, then eventual discussion and argument about how people that care about stats are just twinks and deserve whatever they get.

Quote from: Cutthroat on January 24, 2010, 11:11:19 AM
Reroll undo, logically, just gives you two choices of stat sets. It is advantageous to immediately reroll a new PC and then decide whether you should go back to the first set or keep the second.

I'm frankly saddened by this. Reroll Undo? Seriously? Now people are going to immediately reroll because they have nothing to lose. Expect a batch of chisel-abbed warriors and rangers.

Twinks.

RogueGunslinger · January 24, 2010, 12:01:32 PM

Aheh. you're assuming that a re-roll gives you good stats more often then bad. My experience claims the latter.

Gunnerblaster · January 24, 2010, 12:03:49 PM

Quote from: RogueGunslinger on January 24, 2010, 12:01:32 PM
Aheh. you're assuming that a re-roll gives you good stats more often then bad. My experience claims the latter.

And that's the chance we are willing to risk rerolling. I liked it when there was actual Risk involved. Now there are no consequences, whatsoever.

Synthesis · January 24, 2010, 12:09:43 PM

Quote from: Gunnerblaster on January 24, 2010, 12:03:49 PM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on January 24, 2010, 12:01:32 PM
Aheh. you're assuming that a re-roll gives you good stats more often then bad. My experience claims the latter.
And that's the chance we are willing to risk rerolling. I liked it when there was actual Risk involved. Now there are no consequences, whatsoever.

You want risk? Don't reroll: you risk the opportunity of having a better roll.

Rhyden · January 24, 2010, 12:14:03 PM

I've been wanting a reroll undo for a while. Awesome.

RogueGunslinger · January 24, 2010, 12:14:12 PM

Quote from: Gunnerblaster on January 24, 2010, 12:03:49 PM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on January 24, 2010, 12:01:32 PM
Aheh. you're assuming that a re-roll gives you good stats more often then bad. My experience claims the latter.
And that's the chance we are willing to risk rerolling. I liked it when there was actual Risk involved. Now there are no consequences, whatsoever.

My question is why should there be a measure of risk or gamble in how we create our own characters? Why detriment the player for making a choice of possibly having a set of stats that fits the character better?

Gunnerblaster · January 24, 2010, 12:20:10 PM

Arm was an RPI, not a H&S. That's my point. When stats become required for your "awesome roleplay", you lose.

RogueGunslinger · January 24, 2010, 12:23:54 PM

I know that's what you meant. I was using your argument against you.

mangler · January 24, 2010, 12:34:19 PM

Can't say I'm overly pleased at this.. like Gunnerblaster said literally -everyone- will reroll just for the hell of it in case they get better stats. I found the previous system fine, either put up with what you get or take a risk on the reroll. Apart from one char who I stored which would still be eligible for a stat boost according to the post, I don't think stats have ever made me want to suicide a character, in fact my longest lived character, 35 day warrior had very low stun/health, can't say it ever prevented him from schooling the majority of opponents he faced. Seems like realism has been replaced with randomness to me.

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Riev · January 24, 2010, 12:42:36 PM

Need for this post not necessary anymore.

Ghost · January 24, 2010, 12:43:58 PM

While not directly related, how does the aging code works?

When you make a young character and have average str for example, does it get a significant bump when your character becomes adult?

Or is the aging difference is small enough you do not notice?

Morgenes · January 24, 2010, 12:48:37 PM

Quote from: Ghost on January 24, 2010, 12:43:58 PM
While not directly related, how does the aging code works?

When you make a young character and have average str for example, does it get a significant bump when your character becomes adult?

Or is the aging difference is small enough you do not notice?

It can make a noticible difference. Now if you create a 13 year old, don't expect to see immediate jumps on every birthday, but as you age up through the age categories you will see an increase (and eventually decrease).

Ghost · January 24, 2010, 12:51:07 PM

Oh, so it does make a change every year?

Several years ago, I think it was posted on GDB that only when you jump through age categories would it make a difference.

Gunnerblaster · January 24, 2010, 12:53:12 PM

Quote from: Riev on January 24, 2010, 12:42:36 PM
Sorry, but this quote makes it appear as though this was Nyr's position and I don't believe that was the intention. I do not want people assuming it is staff opinion that only twinks care about stats.

Sorry, Nyr - I fixed it.

Cutthroat · January 24, 2010, 01:09:30 PM

To be clear, I don't see the problem with reroll undo essentially offering two stat set choices. I've liked the idea of being able to choose between two stat sets, but this change was probably easier to code.

Anything that gives more power to the player in character creation is a good thing, IMO. Wanting control over who you're playing isn't twinkery, it's attention to roleplay. If you want to get lucky, don't order your stats, forbid yourself from using the reroll command, and so on.

RogueGunslinger · January 24, 2010, 01:20:33 PM

Quote from: mangler on January 24, 2010, 12:34:19 PM
Can't say I'm overly pleased at this.. like Gunnerblaster said literally -everyone- will reroll just for the hell of it in case they get better stats. I found the previous system fine, either put up with what you get or take a risk on the reroll. Apart from one char who I stored which would still be eligible for a stat boost according to the post, I don't think stats have ever made me want to suicide a character, in fact my longest lived character, 35 day warrior had very low stun/health, can't say it ever prevented him from schooling the majority of opponents he faced. Seems like realism has been replaced with randomness to me.

You are looking at it wrong. You should look at it as if now you have two options to choose from, when determining your characters stats. It's random, but it's still based on your prioritization and age.

jhunter · January 24, 2010, 01:35:47 PM

I suppose I don't really care one way or another about reroll undo except that it helps with those occasions when your initial roll makes your concept barely playable so you go for the reroll and the reroll makes it completely unplayable. That is only in certain circumstances and not consistantly a problem. Low/average stats does not equal unplayable for the most part.

I'm glad of the policy change. Honestly I think that people who needed stat boosts in any of the other situations were pretty much were veiling powergaming with"But it was something my pc would realistically do and shouldn't they realistically get an increase because of it?" When we all know that they likely wouldn't have had the pc act that way if they had a higher stat to begin with.

Ampere · January 24, 2010, 02:41:10 PM

While unfortunate, it is as I often say, not my game. However, it would have been nice had there been a grace period offered for those of us who've been storing our logs prior to the announcement.

Ah well.

Twilight · January 24, 2010, 03:50:22 PM

Will reroll undo only undo the roll on your four main stats? Or will it take you back to exactly the same hp/stun/move levels as your first roll as well?

mangler · January 24, 2010, 03:51:31 PM

Quote from: RogueGunslinger on January 24, 2010, 01:20:33 PM
Quote from: mangler on January 24, 2010, 12:34:19 PM
Can't say I'm overly pleased at this.. like Gunnerblaster said literally -everyone- will reroll just for the hell of it in case they get better stats. I found the previous system fine, either put up with what you get or take a risk on the reroll. Apart from one char who I stored which would still be eligible for a stat boost according to the post, I don't think stats have ever made me want to suicide a character, in fact my longest lived character, 35 day warrior had very low stun/health, can't say it ever prevented him from schooling the majority of opponents he faced. Seems like realism has been replaced with randomness to me.

You are looking at it wrong. You should look at it as if now you have two options to choose from, when determining your characters stats. It's random, but it's still based on your prioritization and age.

Are you sure that a reroll is still stat prioritized? I seem to remember rerolling once and my stats changing order. I was also imagining people would reroll just for the sake of it, then choose whichever set of stats was purely better code wise rather than which would suit their character the best, based on my previous assumption that rerolling doesn't keep your stats in the order they were previously.

Morgenes · January 24, 2010, 03:54:21 PM

As currently implemented, you will get a new hp/stun roll, so going back to a higher endurance will get you closer to your original hp/stun, but it won't be guaranteed to be exactly the old values.

Morgenes · January 24, 2010, 03:57:17 PM

Quote from: mangler on January 24, 2010, 03:51:31 PM
Are you sure that a reroll is still stat prioritized? I seem to remember rerolling once and my stats changing order. I was also imagining people would reroll just for the sake of it, then choose whichever set of stats was purely better code wise rather than which would suit their character the best, based on my previous assumption that rerolling doesn't keep your stats in the order they were previously.

Rerolls are still stat prioritized. Prioritization guarantees that your attributes will be in the order you requested before guild and age modifications. Also not all attributes have the same range, so you could end up with the same number for two attributes, but the text behind them could change.

Kol · January 24, 2010, 04:11:06 PM

I LOVE IT!

Awsomes.

Potaje · January 24, 2010, 09:39:11 PM

I think its nice to have the undo option, simply because staff is not obligated to have offered anything, and every right to remove the options of logged boosts. Perhaps those that find they fall into the categories of wimpy characters could take the opportunity to role play that aspect and find partners with the stats and abilities they wished they had to make up for it. Sure there might be that thought of well I will not be that rockem sockem loner, boss that none can kick the ass of and all have to respect. However maybe you now need to use your RL wits to manipulate, charm and convince others that they need you, want to follow you, protect you, or what ever it is. Hence stats do not matter.

Just a Thought, not an accusation or implication.

Discussion of the new stat policy

January 24, 2010, 11:55:17 AM #50 Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 12:52:34 PM by Gunnerblaster

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