Discussion of the new stat policy

[Oleupata]

This is the thread for discussion and reactions to the new policy on stat bumps, as announced here.

Edited to add:

Or you could hop over to where people beat me to the punch here.

[Riev]

So as it was stated, the only ones looked at will be for HGs unable to pick things up, Rangers that can't use bows, and etc?


Because all my characters that live longer than 3hrs have poor wisdom. How I can be smart?

[Cavaticus]

How I can be smart?

Prioritize your wisdom.

[Riev]

How I can be smart?

Prioritize your wisdom.

Oh.

Well.

Stop trying to outsmart me. I rolled low.

[Oleupata]

So as it was stated, the only ones looked at will be for HGs unable to pick things up, Rangers that can't use bows, and etc?


Because all my characters that live longer than 3hrs have poor wisdom. How I can be smart?

Yes, this is correct.

If you'd like to play smart characters, I'd recommend prioritizing wisdom, or praying to Ginka for a good roll. (She likes blood sacrifices, the younger the better.)

[AmandaGreathouse]

Prioritize it first and don't make a 12-year-old. No offense, riev.

I seriously don't see the issue with the new change. Do I think it adds anything to the game? Not really. Do I think it takes away from the game? A little. That said, I can't recall having ever asked for a stat boost, so I'm fairly unaffected by this. I would like to see mansa's undo reroll option, though.

[Irulan]

I don't have a problem with the new policy. I've had a very long lived character that was modified through RP and got a strength stat boost. It didn't change the way I played my character, and it didn't make her 'better'. Pretty much the only thing it did was change the strength of bow that she used. She also lived long enough that the age code kicked in, and that didn't really change my rp anymore than it was already changing it due to her getting older. Stats are just really not THAT important to the way you play your character, unless you get some absolutely terrible roll that makes something unplayable, and the staff said they'd consider adjusting that. So, my opinion, this doesn't really change things. We're still an RPI mud, and thats what we should keep focusing on.

-Irulan

[Synthesis]

This wouldn't be a big deal if people could see their stats relative to their age, like I proposed last March.

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,34874.0.html

That way, if you roll extremely good for a youngster, you'll see "extremely good," and know that, even though you can't pull that giant-hair-string bow today, you'll be at risk for breaking it 10 years down the road.

[MarshallDFX]

This change reduces the incentive to lobby and will improve overall efficiency/be beneficial, though it may not seem that way to one given individual.

[X-D]

First, you and the game are assuming that a PC is at peak potential with whatever they roll? I'm sorry, that is just silly. And only serves to make things more static.

Still, whatever. If that is the case then what I am asking should be something you all should agree to.

First, the aging code is wonky as hell if you are playing something other then human. I once had a dwarf who had his stats go DOWN after hitting peak age for stats, why, because he was age 50, which on a human would have made his stats go down. Not to mention that stat changes happen too often for the longer lived races.

Second, like I said, even if the code/staff assume you rolled peak for the age  blah blah, that still does not account for lifestyle/RP. As it stand, 2 humans roll the exact same age and stats, guild and all. #1 becomes a bard and spends the next 10 years singing in bars and drinking. #2 spends the next 10 years digging clay, mining sid and fighting for a living, all the while walking because he was afraid of heights and unwilling to ride. When the age comes for a stat change they will Both get the exact same changes. If that means they get stronger, they both will, even though the bard should be getting weaker and if it made them get weaker, they both will and at the same amount.

This is unrealistic.

[janeshephard]

Stat boosts are a symptom of a larger issue. People not feeling their concept aligns with their stats. I think if you had someway to influence your stats beyond "ordering" you'll see this issue go away quickly. Instead of ordering, allocate ten points toward stats for everyone. These ten points are then weighed by race and after a low roll are added to the stats. Your one reroll doesn't impact the allocation. These points are essentially saying "this character is agile and somewhat strong" or "this character is smart and somewhat sturdy.

Just my suggestion.

[Durant]

I disagree, the issue is that everyone wants their stats to be "the best."

Guess what, someone will be stronger, smarter, faster, or more fit than you, regardless of how much you work out.

Suiciding is for sissys, play your stats and give your character a chance. prioritization has made nearly all concepts playable, and if you require all of your stats to be Exceptionals then you had better drop in a special app and take chance out of the equation.

[Delstro]

I do want my stats to be the best.

Sometimes the best is decent strength and poor agility.
Sometimes the best is decent strength and endurance.

Do not strawman me. I will burn them down.

I am also a sissy as I will freely suicide a character I do not care about that doesn't fit what I want to do.

[X-D]

Don't say "everyone" Everyone does not want stats to be the best.

I myself have a very broad range of what I like on any given concept.  And though I've never asked for a raise...well, other then a HG mage that could not cast anything. I do want the possibility of my stats to reflect my RP over a length of time. Hell...on reflection, I don't agree with the change from any standpoint. Any PC should be able to work hard over a length of time to get any stat at least to average or slightly above.

I think the stat bump policy should not be, "No stat bumps" But should instead have clearly stated rules. IE, If the stat is at average or better to start, no raises, and no stat will be raised past above ave unless said stat does make something impossible.
As mentioned, ranger who cannot use any bow or mage that cannot cast a spell.
I'd not even mind if the PC had to have a certain time played etc. So you don't get the ones that start, RP some logs and at 1.5 days played and 1 RL week are asking for a stat raise then of course die a hour later.

[Durant]

Everyone was a poor choice of word, replace it with "Some"

As to changing unplayable stats, I believe staff said they would fix them still, so what's the problem?

Nothing is stopping you from continuing to work out.

[Pheonix]

Just for clarification, does this also mean special applications for stat boosts will also be denied?

[Khorm]

THIS IS A FUCKING OUTRAGE.

I can't believe that I've never asked for a stat boost and now I can't. Fuck.

In several years of playing, I've never had a character that wasn't able to function due to some ridiculous stats. I've had maybe... five characters total during that time that had some sort of "poor" attribute. I didn't RP getting ripped because I never gave a fuck. Maybe two of those times I got it in my head to suicide because, holy shit, I had poor endurance.. and trying to get myself killed was actually way more fun than the following ten characters combined.

I have "poor" strength. I can't damage scrabs. I can't wield two-handed swords. I can't pick up heavy bags. I can't do a variety of other things that essentially don't even matter. What's the problem with playing a wimp? A klutz? I understand the allure of creating warriors that are ultra-jacked and punch through glass astronaut helmets, but... if there's an issue with that dude rolling poor strength, it's possible that you could just stop adding lines like, "you notice that he has six-pack thighs and six-pack triceps and a delicious booty".

There's a lot of fuck-ups in Armageddon, and those fuck-ups make the game infinitely more interesting than Captain Insano Abs who pumps his volcano-forged iron barbells and fist-fucks mekillots with his chiseled physique.

[Pheonix]

And I think the point being made by the staff is that, if you really want strength to be that big of a matter to your character, you can prioritize strength over the other stats. I've found it very very rare (more like never when the age was reasonable) to have poor strength, or even close, when you have strength as the first priority.

[Potaje]

I'm just curious as to what brought the change around?

[Aaron Goulet]

I understand the allure of creating warriors that are ultra-jacked and punch through glass astronaut helmets, but... if there's an issue with that dude rolling poor strength, it's possible that you could just stop adding lines like, "you notice that he has six-pack thighs and six-pack triceps and a delicious booty".

There's a lot of fuck-ups in Armageddon, and those fuck-ups make the game infinitely more interesting than Captain Insano Abs who pumps his volcano-forged iron barbells and fist-fucks mekillots with his chiseled physique.

That was a pretty amazing couple of paragraphs.  Thank you for the laugh. 

I agree with the point you are trying to make, though.  Unfortunately, not everyone sees it this way.  Personally, I find it best to remember that the staff have probably thought this out for hours upon hours, and have a rational reason for instating this change that may not be immediately apparent to us players.  Then again, everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions on the matter, and perhaps some suggestions might be pushed through into code, if warranted.

[Morgenes]

Per your requests, 'reroll undo' will be live next reboot:

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,37698.msg507198.html#new

[Aaron Goulet]

Per your requests, 'reroll undo' will be live next reboot:

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,37698.msg507198.html#new

Awesome.  Thank you, Morgenes!

[musashi]

Per your requests, 'reroll undo' will be live next reboot:

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,37698.msg507198.html#new

Wow. I honestly never thought this would happen.

[Aaron Goulet]

Wow. I honestly never thought this would happen.

Christmas came early this year, it seems.

[janeshephard]

Per your requests, 'reroll undo' will be live next reboot:

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,37698.msg507198.html#new

Excellent. I think this system is even better than requesting stat boosts. You get a free chance to reroll and decide what to do.

[Manhattan]

Reroll undo. YESSSSSSS. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

[Symphony]

Per your requests, 'reroll undo' will be live next reboot:

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,37698.msg507198.html#new

Excellent. I think this system is even better than requesting stat boosts. You get a free chance to reroll and decide what to do.

This is the single most incredible feature ever implemented!

[Jingo]

I think it's just a measure of appeasement for a problem that was created aggravated. Random stats should be done away with imho.

But enough bitching. If staff actually think this is a good idea, then they should consider making the code less inflexible.

Let me weild a sword that a bit too heavy than me, just don't let me do as much damage with it. And down the road, I should be able to become an expert with that sword regardless of what my arbitrary strength score is.

Perhaps if we were allowed to lift heavier weights in clan settings, then organizing would be much less of a headache. We could after all just ask our vnpc clannies to help us out.

I also personally think that stats should matter less in combat.

[Kevo]

Say soldier, how long have you been in the militia?

Five years sarge, including a stint in the Byn?

really? And you still can't pick up that sword? Fucking pansy.

Hooray for realism. You know what, this isn't staff's problem, this is the players. Thank you to the assholes who abused this privilege that allowed one more way for our chars to grow and mature. Again, Assholes.

Actually, instead of erasing everything I just said, I'll let it be said, along with this. Forgive me, somewhere in what I think is a bad idea, good intentions were had, that, at least, I can assume. I swore an oath to be helpful, and give constructive criticism, so even though I think this is a bad idea, I sincerely hope it goes well. I'm disappointed because this char, that I'm playing now, was the FIrST char that I intended to use the stat boost feature on, and now I'm screwed. Oh well, I'm hoping the staff goes about invisibly observing others and doling out necessary stat adjustments, even though I logically think this won't happen.

Eventually, I foresee a time when twinks will stop trying to twink because it makes the game continuously more inflexible. I'd like to see stat boosts brought back, barring that, I'd like to see an insanely complex code adjustment that makes carrying weight add to a stat modifier that coupled with time, diet, other stats, and all the things in rl that modify stats etc be made just to make this game more like real life. Doubtful, but I can dream. Even if none of that happens, who am I kidding, I'm still gonna play. Krath, if staff required mandatory plasma donation per month of play as a new form of sadistic pay per play, I'd still come back to arm.

So, in conclusion (boost my str), good luck with the changes, and I dislike the reroll change. Gambling is gambling, and Las Vegas doesn't give you a undo risky bet. And reroll, unless your stats are abysmal, is a risky bet. Glad everyone else seems to enjoy it though, god knows I'm most likely gonna use it.

And once again, forgive me for losing my temper, I'm just disappointed, as I know others are too, but all jokes aside, I'm positive this was staff's well-meaning attempt at fixing a player made problem.

When I rerolled my current char, I got the same stats. Imagine logging in, and your compensation for not being able to change your stats through rp and hard work is.....essentially, not being able to change your stats, period. (I realize there must be -some- difference in my stat because it's random, they just fall in the same brackets, but how exactly, do I know which one is worse, and which one is better)

To avoid getting bitchy, and technical and jewish (as I am partial to doing), I'll cut this short. Boooo change, still hope it works out for the best.

[Cerelum]

I think it's just a measure of appeasement for a problem that was created aggravated. Random stats should be done away with imho.

But enough bitching. If staff actually think this is a good idea, then they should consider making the code less inflexible.

Let me weild a sword that a bit too heavy than me, just don't let me do as much damage with it. And down the road, I should be able to become an expert with that sword regardless of what my arbitrary strength score is.

Perhaps if we were allowed to lift heavier weights in clan settings, then organizing would be much less of a headache. We could after all just ask our vnpc clannies to help us out.

I also personally think that stats should matter less in combat.

Seems we can't be happy unless things stay the same as always.  First they take it away, then they give us a new feature that allows you to revert back to your prior awesome stats.  You are complaining because they didn't leave it so you can TYPE a few things every day or two, then create a large log and send it into turn your average strength to good.

I personally am happy with the Reroll Undo.

[number13]

Reroll undo is somewhat silly, for reasons that were outlined in the original reroll undo thread.  I'm a little surprised that so many people are cheering for it, but whatever.  Hopefully new players will recognize that they need to reroll, in order to stay average.

Across years of playing, I think I've asked for stat adjustment twice.  Apparently, there's people who have never asked for stat adjustment, ever. I think a better solution might of been to place a lock on the number stat adjustments a player can ask for in a year's time, rather than do away with the concept.  Like once or twice a year.

I can't remember ever asking for upward stat adjustment in special app; I'm almost certain I didn't receive an upward stat adjustment in my one spec-app that was approved. Out of curiosity, I wonder if upward stat adjustment is still special app-able.  (not planning on that sort of app myself; just curious)

[Good Gortok]

I disagree, the issue is that everyone wants their stats to be "the best."

No, but few want their character to be compromised purely because their potential adversary or counterpart rolled the hard six. It is not so much a matter of players wanting to be the best but rather a problem with the fact that certain stats have a gigantic influence on your character's prowess in certain areas, and the fact that it is often quite random how stats turn out. You can decide the order of the rolls and somewhat influence them with age and physical size and such, but in the end, one PC could come out good-average-poor-good and another exceptional-good-verygood-extremelygood. This is why a lot of players have trouble coping with poor or even mediocre stats - somewhere down the line, their favorite PC might be attacked by someone who rolled He-man stats, and their favorite PC might die solely because of said stats. This is in stark contrast with every notion of game-related fairness ever conceived of, and we do play a game after all.

Guess what, someone will be stronger, smarter, faster, or more fit than you, regardless of how much you work out.

In a game where we design our characters down to the color of their eyes and the profession of their long dead parents, choose their precise age and height and weight, and decide on a largely unchangeable skill template, it is not reasonable to expect us to then accept a simple dice roll to determine the actual coded qualities of these characters. Yes, someone will be stronger, smarter, faster, or more fit than you, but leaving random chance to decide who that is goes against the concept of everything the game otherwise stands for. We do not roll dice for our age or guild, or which skills we will be able to branch, and trust me, the difference between above-average and extremely-good strength is so great that you can both feel and see it throughout the entire life of your character.

[Kryos]

I was always a fan of the old three-roll system.  But, I've no problem with no further stat changes or undo reroll.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I'm in favor, in a general way, of a point buy system. Barring that, however, while I don't think that the nixing of stat boosts was a particularly good thing, and I don't think reroll undo 'makes up' for it, I do think that having reroll undo is a nice addition to the code, and one I'll most likely use, certainly

[musashi]

I was one of those people who never used the stat boosting request, and while I agree that minimizing allowed stat boosts would have probably been better than laying out a flat absolute no ... I do feel like with the addition of an undo reroll option we as players now have a lot of control over how our stats turn out, and the idea of stats being unplayable by a terrible stroke of bad luck is more or less a thing of the past.

[Spice Spice Baby]

I used the request-a-stat-bump thing on exactly one character. I'd been playing that PC for around eight RL months and got her strength bumped a small amount. If I'd rolled that PC after the new aging code, I probably wouldn't have needed to apply for a stat bump. As long as the aging code is functioning correctly, I don't think this change will have too much of an impact.

It would be cool to get some data on the exact affect that the aging code is having on PCs, but I dunno if that's compiled anywhere or if it's considered too much of a code mechanics secret.

It'll be interesting to see the effect that 'reroll undo' has.

[number13]

^^ It's still random.  While unlikely, it's still possible to get two truly awful sets of rolls in a row.

That's not the big problem with reroll undo.  The real problem is it creates a new average, and eventually new expectations. Meaning, the common perception of what shitty stats and good stats are will probably shift upward.   It's also somewhat unfair, since a newbie is less likely to be aware of the advantage of reroll undo. There may be something of a placebo effect to reroll undo -- the illusion of an extra choice might placate someone who would otherwise be unhappy with their stats (that's a good thing).

I'd rather see a real solution. For example, the stat descriptors could encompass wider ranges, with the stat order always providing the same descriptor for an attribute slotted into a particular place in the stat order.

So, let's say the new stat descriptors are "Excellent", "Good", "Average", "Below Average".  The first attribute in the stat order is always "Excellent", the second is always "Good", and so on.  But -- the descriptors actually have a very wide range of variance, maybe even crossing into each other's ranges.   Excellent might include what is now "Good", as would the new Good.  A character would have a perception of his ability, which only approximates the randomized reality of the numbers.  Effects that modify attributes would place a little + or - sign next to the descriptor.  So you smoke some beetle dung, and now your Average agility is Average+.

A system like that would preserve the variance among individuals (a good thing?) and kill the ability of stat conscious individuals to game the system.

[Nyr]

Per your requests, 'reroll undo' will be live next reboot:

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,37698.msg507198.html#new

Wow. I honestly never thought this would happen.

I had it on an IDB list in September when I originally proposed the latest round of stat changes.  You might recall that period of time--plenty of posts about how much stats blow, countered by people that say "well they aren't that important," complete with anecdotes, then eventual discussion and argument about how people that care about stats are just twinks and deserve whatever they get.

I'm pleased it got put in as the alternative option.  No, it's not the best solution, but it is an alternative.  Doing something more complex is Armageddon Reborn territory--we've already put it on the table.  Staff have been discussing this for months.  Even some of the people discussing the more complex options liked them better, but they aren't feasible for Armageddon as it is right now.  Area of improvement:  You now have a choice and more control over your character, as a nod towards the kind of things you'll be able to do in Reborn.

[Lizzie]

Reroll undo would've made a -huge- difference in a couple of characters I had. As I said previously, for some reason with my characters, it's all about the stun points. Average strength, average agility, average wisdom...hasn't really mattered too much. But low stun points sucks and blows, at the same time. Every time I'd roll my character, whether I prioritize or not, I'll get something like:

st: av. agi: below av. wis: above av. end: above av. hps: 105 stam: 114 stun: 105

I'd reroll, hoping for at least the below av to bump up, if nothing else. I'd end up with the same stats, except the endurance would drop to below average, and my numbers would drop to hps: 99. stam: 114 stun: 95. I'd usually either store after sheer frustration after a couple of weeks, or let my character piss someone off bad enough to kill them.

I even had a magicker desert elf who started out with low strength, and given the environment and her need to be able to carry things, I -knew- that was gonna be another 1-week character. So I rerolled. Got below average strength and took a dive in wisdom, and a dive in mana points.

I totally would've undone a couple of rerolls, had I the opportunity. I don't really even care all that much about the "word stats" so much as I care about the "number stats." I could live with average across the board, in exchange for like, 140 hps, 160 stun, and 130 naked stamina, for a human

[DustMight]

I find all these changes more than fair.
Oddly, I find nothing to bitch about.  =)

[racurtne]

While I am aware that this is a game, and it's meant for you to role-play out the character you want to play. I believe that it is possible to have lots of interesting role-play opportunities for those with a few mediocre or even poor stats. If it doesn't quite fit with the concept you had in mind, you can always transfer this conflict onto your character.

Lets say your character ends up having stats that limit that character's potential. You have the option to either fret over how your character can not reach your OOC goals for that character (or IC goals for that matter), or you can transfer this disappointment onto your character. Your character has to live with the fact that they will never be better than their friends or clan-mates at whatever it is that they do.

This can, for some characters, potentially result in a lot of opportunity for character development. Does your character find their lack of ability depressing, driving them to drink to excess or lash out at friends because of their own lack of self-confidence? Do they just enjoy being a part of a group, despite their ability to rise above their peers?
Do they pretend that they are this way when in fact they envy their friends' success? Do they push themselves harder in a desperate but futile attempt to be the best?

I also realize that not every player wants to play this kind of role, but hey, it's likely that their characters don't either.

This will probably be much better when the reroll-undo feature goes in, but you're still going to have some plain horrible stats come up.

[Synthesis]

Since the stat prioritization system went in, I've rolled all adult characters.

I haven't had a single character that didn't have 'very good' or better for the stat I prioritized.

I haven't had a single character that didn't have 'above average' or better for the second stat (and that only happened once, when I deliberately put 2nd priority on a stat that the class doesn't receive a bonus to).

I've gotten numerous exceptionals, several exceptionally goods, and a single absolutely incredible.

And now you basically get best of 2!

The stat priority system works beautifully.  I guarantee that 99% of the complaints of shitty stats are because people rolled their character too young or too old.  If people could see their stat descriptors as relative to their age group, they probably wouldn't be complaining so much.  That way, if you roll a 13-y.o.:  his strength might be 'poor' compared to a 30-y.o., but it might be exceptional compared to other 13-y.o.'s.  Sure, he might not be able to lift a shortsword properly, but I don't think the player will complain about it, because he/she knows that if they survive 17 years, he'll be a hardass pterodactyl.

[Cutthroat]

Getting stats that don't fit your character shouldn't even be possible, if you're considering age, race, and the way you organize your stats. If you want a high-strength character, pick a reasonable age, race, and put strength first.

Getting a couple of bad stats will still be possible.

Reroll undo, logically, just gives you two choices of stat sets. It is advantageous to immediately reroll a new PC and then decide whether you should go back to the first set or keep the second.

[Khorm]

I see that what I should have been doing all this time was to roll warriors with the priority on wisdom and agility, and then just do strength and endurance exercises to get AI stats across the board.

Maybe that's what people were doing.. I wouldn't be surprised.

Someone mentioned that they hadn't received shitty stats since the prioritizing system went in. I can identify with that.. if I priority agility, I get good agility.. if I prioritize strength, I get get good strength. If I secondary wisdom, I get good wisdom.

I have a feeling people abused the hell out of this, and that might be a large portion of the reason behind the change. It certainly doesn't seem like a necessary part of the game.

[Lizzie]

I only sometimes reroll, because often I'm satisfied with what I have (except those damnable number stats, the bane of my existence). However, for my next character, even if I roll 4 AI's I might reroll anyway just to see what the next set would've been had I not chosen to weep with joy over having 4 AIs. And who knows..maybe I'll end up with 4 exceptionals instead of 4 AIs, but..more stun points! And then I'll keep the lower roll with the better stun! And then I WILL WAY YOU ALL. While standing up. And walking. In a sandstorm.

C'mon how awesome is that.

[RogueGunslinger]

I like the totality of this change. I think people's problems with the change, are people's problems with the system in general. All of the people vying for the option to change stats are coming up with situations that I've never seen in game.

The equal stated people, one goes into the militia, one goes into the bardic circle. They still have the same inherent stats, sure, but I promise you, their skills will be massively different, and that skill change will probably portray what you want as good as any stat change would.

The soldier who trains for ten years and still can't use that sword... Staff have already said playability issues will be addressed.

[Riev]

Similar to my feelings during the last round of "I hate Stats Quarterly", people that say stats don't matter are the people that don't often USE those stats. I had a warrior with such low strength, that even two-handing a weapon didn't do more than a minor amount of damage. I did some arduous solo RP, running with heavy weights and logs, so that I could get bumped up enough to use a -shield- because most were too heavy. I don't think every character needs "Good" level stats, but if you're playing a ranger, and you prioritize agility and wisdom, and get above average agility and below average wisdom (when even a reroll could be just as bad) it just sucks.


I -do- however, believe that stats are most important for combat type characters. NOT TWINKS. If you are going to be a hunter, or in a hunting party, but you can't even damage a bahamet with a 2h axe, you are -useless- as a hunter and your concept is likely shattered. A Merchant with below average strength cares less than a ranger with below average strength.

[AmandaGreathouse]

And then I WILL WAY YOU ALL. While standing up. And walking. In a sandstorm.

*wet dream*

Seriously. Stun points has been about the largest thing I've had issues with myself. Of course, for some (probably most) it's likely not a problem. But for me... I am ubersocial. Arm is most of my social life. And I've knocked out a good handful of my ~25 pcs using the Way. Almost always before 3 days played.

[Synthesis]

I don't think every character needs "Good" level stats, but if you're playing a ranger, and you prioritize agility and wisdom, and get above average agility and below average wisdom (when even a reroll could be just as bad) it just sucks.

From my experience, this will only happen if you roll a 'young' character.  Like I said, I've never gotten worse than 'very good' for my primary stat on an adult character.

[valeria]

I don't really think the actual change will affect me, since I didn't even know that you could request stat bumps... much less ever actually requested one.

I do like the reroll undo coming about because of it, though.  Like Lizzie, one of my main concerns with rerolling isn't getting better stats, but getting more stun.  Anything under 100 stun is just a pain in the butt, and I might totally go back to my old stats if a reroll resulted in me having less stun. 

I've usually only rerolled before though if I had two stats below average or lower... so I've only once got worse stats from a reroll.  But one time I got worse stun points and nearly cried.

[Gunnerblaster]

You might recall that period of time--plenty of posts about how much stats blow, countered by people that say "well they aren't that important," complete with anecdotes, then eventual discussion and argument about how people that care about stats are just twinks and deserve whatever they get.

Reroll undo, logically, just gives you two choices of stat sets. It is advantageous to immediately reroll a new PC and then decide whether you should go back to the first set or keep the second.

I'm frankly saddened by this. Reroll Undo? Seriously? Now people are going to immediately reroll because they have nothing to lose. Expect a batch of chisel-abbed warriors and rangers.

Twinks.

[RogueGunslinger]

Aheh. you're assuming that a re-roll gives you good stats more often then bad. My experience claims the latter.

[Gunnerblaster]

Aheh. you're assuming that a re-roll gives you good stats more often then bad. My experience claims the latter.

And that's the chance we are willing to risk rerolling. I liked it when there was actual Risk involved. Now there are no consequences, whatsoever.

[Synthesis]

Aheh. you're assuming that a re-roll gives you good stats more often then bad. My experience claims the latter.

And that's the chance we are willing to risk rerolling. I liked it when there was actual Risk involved. Now there are no consequences, whatsoever.

You want risk? Don't reroll:  you risk the opportunity of having a better roll.

[Rhyden]

I've been wanting a reroll undo for a while. Awesome.

[RogueGunslinger]

Aheh. you're assuming that a re-roll gives you good stats more often then bad. My experience claims the latter.

And that's the chance we are willing to risk rerolling. I liked it when there was actual Risk involved. Now there are no consequences, whatsoever.

My question is why should there be a measure of risk or gamble in how we create our own characters? Why detriment the player for making a choice of possibly having a set of stats that fits the character better?

[Gunnerblaster]

Arm was an RPI, not a H&S. That's my point. When stats become required for your "awesome roleplay", you lose.

[RogueGunslinger]

I know that's what you meant. I was using your argument against you.

[mangler]

Can't say I'm overly pleased at this.. like Gunnerblaster said literally -everyone- will reroll just for the hell of it in case they get better stats. I found the previous system fine, either put up with what you get or take a risk on the reroll. Apart from one char who I stored which would still be eligible for a stat boost according to the post, I don't think stats have ever made me want to suicide a character, in fact my longest lived character, 35 day warrior had very low stun/health, can't say it ever prevented him from schooling the majority of opponents he faced. Seems like realism has been replaced with randomness to me.

[mansa]

Omgomgomgomgomgomgomg!
Omgomgomgomgomgomgomg!
Omgomgomgomgomgomgomg!
Omgomgomgomgomgomgomg!
Omgomgomgomgomgomgomg!
Omgomgomgomgomgomgomg!
Omgomgomgomgomgomgomg!
Omgomgomgomgomgomgomg!
Omgomgomgomgomgomgomg!
Omgomgomgomgomgomgomg!

[Riev]

Need for this post not necessary anymore.

[Ghost]

While not directly related, how does the aging code works?

When you make a young character and have average str for example, does it get a significant bump when your character becomes adult?

Or is the aging difference is small enough you do not notice?

[Morgenes]

While not directly related, how does the aging code works?

When you make a young character and have average str for example, does it get a significant bump when your character becomes adult?

Or is the aging difference is small enough you do not notice?

It can make a noticible difference.  Now if you create a 13 year old, don't expect to see immediate jumps on every birthday, but as you age up through the age categories you will see an increase (and eventually decrease).

[Ghost]

Oh, so it does make a change every year?

Several years ago, I think it was posted on GDB that only when you jump through age categories would it make a difference.

[Gunnerblaster]

Sorry, but this quote makes it appear as though this was Nyr's position and I don't believe that was the intention. I do not want people assuming it is staff opinion that only twinks care about stats.

Sorry, Nyr - I fixed it.

[Cutthroat]

To be clear, I don't see the problem with reroll undo essentially offering two stat set choices. I've liked the idea of being able to choose between two stat sets, but this change was probably easier to code.

Anything that gives more power to the player in character creation is a good thing, IMO. Wanting control over who you're playing isn't twinkery, it's attention to roleplay. If you want to get lucky, don't order your stats, forbid yourself from using the reroll command, and so on.

[RogueGunslinger]

Can't say I'm overly pleased at this.. like Gunnerblaster said literally -everyone- will reroll just for the hell of it in case they get better stats. I found the previous system fine, either put up with what you get or take a risk on the reroll. Apart from one char who I stored which would still be eligible for a stat boost according to the post, I don't think stats have ever made me want to suicide a character, in fact my longest lived character, 35 day warrior had very low stun/health, can't say it ever prevented him from schooling the majority of opponents he faced. Seems like realism has been replaced with randomness to me.

You are looking at it wrong. You should look at it as if now you have two options to choose from, when determining your characters stats.  It's random, but it's still based on your prioritization and age.

[jhunter]

I suppose I don't really care one way or another about reroll undo except that it helps with those occasions when your initial roll makes your concept barely playable so you go for the reroll and the reroll makes it completely unplayable. That is only in certain circumstances and not consistantly a problem. Low/average stats does not equal unplayable for the most part.

I'm glad of the policy change. Honestly I think that people who needed stat boosts in any of the other situations were pretty much were veiling powergaming with"But it was something my pc would realistically do and shouldn't they realistically get an increase because of it?" When we all know that they likely wouldn't have had the pc act that way if they had a higher stat to begin with.

[Ampere]

While unfortunate, it is as I often say, not my game.  However, it would have been nice had there been a grace period offered for those of us who've been storing our logs prior to the announcement.

Ah well.

[Twilight]

Will reroll undo only undo the roll on your four main stats?  Or will it take you back to exactly the same hp/stun/move levels as your first roll as well?

[mangler]

Can't say I'm overly pleased at this.. like Gunnerblaster said literally -everyone- will reroll just for the hell of it in case they get better stats. I found the previous system fine, either put up with what you get or take a risk on the reroll. Apart from one char who I stored which would still be eligible for a stat boost according to the post, I don't think stats have ever made me want to suicide a character, in fact my longest lived character, 35 day warrior had very low stun/health, can't say it ever prevented him from schooling the majority of opponents he faced. Seems like realism has been replaced with randomness to me.

You are looking at it wrong. You should look at it as if now you have two options to choose from, when determining your characters stats.  It's random, but it's still based on your prioritization and age.

Are you sure that a reroll is still stat prioritized? I seem to remember rerolling once and my stats changing order. I was also imagining people would reroll just for the sake of it, then choose whichever set of stats was purely better code wise rather than which would suit their character the best, based on my previous assumption that rerolling doesn't keep your stats in the order they were previously.

[Morgenes]

As currently implemented, you will get a new hp/stun roll, so going back to a higher endurance will get you closer to your original hp/stun, but it won't be guaranteed to be exactly the old values.

[Morgenes]

Are you sure that a reroll is still stat prioritized? I seem to remember rerolling once and my stats changing order. I was also imagining people would reroll just for the sake of it, then choose whichever set of stats was purely better code wise rather than which would suit their character the best, based on my previous assumption that rerolling doesn't keep your stats in the order they were previously.

Rerolls are still stat prioritized.  Prioritization guarantees that your attributes will be in the order you requested before guild and age modifications.  Also not all attributes have the same range, so you could end up with the same number for two attributes, but the text behind them could change.

[Kol]

I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT!  I LOVE IT! 

Awsomes.

[Potaje]

I think its nice to have the undo option, simply because staff is not obligated to have offered anything, and every right to remove the options of logged boosts. Perhaps those that find they fall into the categories of wimpy characters could take the opportunity to role play that aspect and find partners with the stats and abilities they wished they had to make up for it. Sure there might be that thought of well I will not be that rockem sockem loner, boss that none can kick the ass of and all have to respect. However maybe you now need to use your RL wits to manipulate, charm and convince others that they need you, want to follow you, protect you, or what ever it is. Hence stats do not matter.

Just a Thought, not an accusation or implication.

[jstorrie]

I'm much more in favour of reroll undo than stat boosts. They both serve the same purpose. Yes, stats across the board may become slightly inflated, since now everyone has the equivalent of '4d6 drop lowest', but this isn't really going to make anyone sad. People spending time grinding out logs for stat boosts, on the other hand, are often doing solo play which they wouldn't without the encouragement of the possibility of a boost, and this will get them out into the Gaj so I can steal their boots.

Staff, jstorrie approves. You can lock the thread now.

[janeshephard]

Arm was an RPI, not a H&S. That's my point. When stats become required for your "awesome roleplay", you lose.

This change doesn't give "awesome" stats or even increase the chances of it. I think you would realize this if you understand that a reroll does not guarantee better stats. All this change does is give you two sets to choose from.

[FantasyWriter]

I never asked for a stat change that I recall, but I have always advocated re-reroll.

*STAMP*

[waroth]

Kudos to the staff for this new change.  I have on several occasions wished to take a reroll back and am excited about this change.  This coupled with the stat prioritization should satisfy most anyone.

[Synthesis]

Arm was an RPI, not a H&S. That's my point. When stats become required for your "awesome roleplay", you lose.

This change doesn't give "awesome" stats or even increase the chances of it. I think you would realize this if you understand that a reroll does not guarantee better stats. All this change does is give you two sets to choose from.

Actually, yeah, it does increase the probability that you will get good stats.  How much it increases the probability is a rather complicated question, but with any random generator, the number of rolls is directly proportional to the probability of achieving maximum values.  (Unless the coders nefariously coded a probability distribution that declines or narrows with the number of attempted rolls, bwahahaha.)

[Lizzie]

How can it increase the probability of you getting good stats? You still get the same number of rolls, and more options for those rolls than I can count on my fingers, because of prioritization.

Originally, there was no reroll. You got what you got, and you were stuck with it unless you appealed to the staff to change it and they agreed with the appeal.

THEN - they allowed you to prioritize, and set the dice so that it would favor specific attributes over others, however you are also allowed to make it random, which -still- favored specific attributes but only as applicable to the guild/race/starting age template.

They ALSO allowed you to reroll, if you didn't like that first roll.

So you got prioritization, plus a reroll option.

NOW - you can do all that, but if you don't like how it ended up, you can return to the initial roll. And you -still- risk losing out on stun points if you pick that option to return.

I don't see how this is any increase in probability that you'll get good stats. It is the exact same probability as it was before.

[Synthesis]

How can it increase the probability of you getting good stats? You still get the same number of rolls, and more options for those rolls than I can count on my fingers, because of prioritization.

Originally, there was no reroll. You got what you got, and you were stuck with it unless you appealed to the staff to change it and they agreed with the appeal.

THEN - they allowed you to prioritize, and set the dice so that it would favor specific attributes over others, however you are also allowed to make it random, which -still- favored specific attributes but only as applicable to the guild/race/starting age template.

They ALSO allowed you to reroll, if you didn't like that first roll.

So you got prioritization, plus a reroll option.

NOW - you can do all that, but if you don't like how it ended up, you can return to the initial roll. And you -still- risk losing out on stun points if you pick that option to return.

I don't see how this is any increase in probability that you'll get good stats. It is the exact same probability as it was before.

No it isn't.  Go read a book on probability.

Edit:  let's see if I can do a hash job here to demonstrate.

Let's say you have 1 stat.  The probability of rolling "shitty" on this stat is .3333.  The probability of rolling "okay" on this stat is .3333.  The probability of rolling "awesome" on this stat is .3333.

Previously, you rolled once.  If you rolled "awesome," then you were good.  No need to reroll.  If you rolled "okay," you were faced with a choice:  you have a 33% chance to improve, but a 33% chance to decline.

Now, if you roll "okay," there is no choice involved, because the reroll is penalty-less.  Since you can go back to your "okay" roll if your second roll declines, you now have a .3333 probability to roll awesome, but a .6666 probability to end up with "okay."

I'm not going to describe this for multiple stats, because the math starts getting hairy with all the possible scenarios, but the principle remains the same.  This is why I didn't say how much the probability improves, only that it will.  It may be very slight, or it may not, depending on the underlying probability distributions, which obviously I don't know.

[musashi]

Wow Synth ... you sound rational 

[X-D]

I think Synth is explaining it wrong.

The stat probability per roll remains the same, but the overall PC average will go up.

He is right about the huge amount of hairy math to figure out the exact % of how much it will go up. But near as I can figure, the overall looks something like 30-50% higher. Because, before you got your roll, say you got all goods, but you decided to gamble. As he said, 3 possible outcomes, Higher, lower, the same. Before , nobody could return to the first roll if the reroll was lower so the PC stat average stayed the same, as if there was no reroll. Now you will almost always return to the higher stat set if your next roll is lower. Thereby throwing out what would have been a certain % of low stat sets and increasing the overall average by the same amount. That by itself would probly improve the ave by around 30%. But then there is a number which I do not have, so cannot do the math on. And that is the number of people that used to NOT gamble on the reroll compared to the number now, the number now will be near 100% since it is not a gamble. So the people that used to go, Hey, these stats are fine, I'm not gonna risk it will no longer do that. Instead they will check the second roll, again, if it is higher they will take it, if it is the same, they will take it, if it is lower they will go back to the first.

I figured, using my own PC count, which is too low to do much good, that my reroll would go from 30% of the time to 100% of the time. Given the above formula, the 30%(12pcs) 4 of them got lower stats on the reroll, 4 higher and 4 the same. So, the 4 that got lower get switched to the same, the other 24, again, 30% are gonna go higher then they had but nobody will go lower....
If the ave stats was ave with the old method then with the new one the ave would go up to good with this method.

Make sense?

Now apply that to the entire game.

[Synthesis]

I think Synth is explaining it wrong.

The stat probability per roll remains the same, but the overall PC average will go up.

Sure, probability per roll doesn't change, because the underlying distribution is presumably constant.  But since you get 2 rolls and the pick, it will tend to increase stats across the game.

I suspect this holds most true for primary/secondary prioritizations, but it doesn't preclude someone from say, rejecting exceptional/good/below/poor in favor of very good/good/average/average.

(And to be fair:  the old reroll system tended to inflate stats as well, since after several characters it was pretty easy to guess when your roll was actually "bad," and thus had a high probability of improving on reroll.  The new system actually levels the playing field for newbies, because they don't have to go through numerous roll/reroll cycles to develop a dataset from which to guesstimate the relative probability of improving vs. declining.)

[evil_erdlu]

How may probability remain the same?

Let's say there are X stat quantifications and Y of them are considered good. With the new change, I don't think anyone would decide not to reroll anyway, as you can take it back with barely a penalty - only stun/hp reroll? -

So in past, you had y/x chance to have a good stat for each individual stat. Now you have y/x + y/x = 2y/x, for every individual stat, but not cumulatively. (You reroll, two stats get better and two get much worse. The reroll hasn't overally increased your character's uberness, you reroll back or not.)

Of course, I won't bother to expand it to four stats. I'm lazy and it will require extensive checks about reroll failures. But it is clear that there is going to be a higher chance of having better stats.

Back to the topic? I never asked for stat increases, but it is because I am always incredibly lucky when it comes to stat rolls. I always had at least one 'exceptional' in my stats and I only had one 'below average' in an unimportant stat, never had anything below. Still I believe, there must be a chance given to very very long living characters.

Say, your warrior became a PC at the age of 13. He had warriorly training till the age of 30 and you had your character reach to that age actively - always doing warriorly stuff and logging in regularly - not logging in on and off like I'm forced to do. There should be a raise in your strength, agility and maybe endurance in addition to the normal raises on birthdays.

Just a thought...

[MarshallDFX]

As somebody who just finished a course in statistical probability:

I'm not going to bother.

Like I didn't bother with most of the course.  Thus I got 60%.

[spawnloser]

Having the chance to reroll and undo it gives you a choice and thus better chances to have better stats.  This obviates the need for stat boosts.  I'm fine with this for the future.

However... I do see the undo as a fix for future characters, but what about characters made without the option to undo the reroll?  These people/characters either suffered through a bad reroll or didn't take a risk that is now risk-free to take.  These people don't get stat boosts and didn't get the increased chances at better/more-appropriate stats.  This I'm not so kosher about.

[path]

I remember back in the day sometimes wishing up to get another reroll. Sometimes I would tell them it was my birthday. Sometimes that would work.

I've never apped for a stat change, but I always liked the idea that I could. I don't feel like the same players apping for stat increases again and again over time is unfair, any more than Gim playing really sexy lady characters who tend to get their way is unfair. Takes all sorts. We need the players who like to play highly motivated PCs just like we need the players that really only ever want to socialize.

So, my disappointment is two fold. One, I regret the loss of opportunity, one more chip in the idea that our characters, should we invest the time and effort, could become nearly anything. Two, the slight crush of equalization across the board.

I don't like reroll undo as a fix. Don't get me wrong here, I'll use it. But it does raise the bar. PCs across the board will now all have slightly better stats.

[Cavaticus]

The point of this is that the combination of rerolling + reroll undo + stat prioritization is that it should be EXTREMELY unlikely that you will ever roll a character who is not in line with your concept. As long as your concept is reasonable. If your concept is, "the extremely buff, extremely fast and also really really smart guy," then that may not happen. If your concept is "the absolutely incredibly strong guy," and you can't play your PC without an AI strength, you may be disappointed.

If your concept is to have a guy who is very strong and reasonably smart, then you should be able to do that. Just about every single time.

[RogueGunslinger]

I remember back in the day sometimes wishing up to get another reroll. Sometimes I would tell them it was my birthday. Sometimes that would work.

... lol wtf. That would never happen for me.  

Nesaliin: Hey guys, it's Path's B-day again!!

Sanaevn: Oh sweet! let's get ready for her surprise guyz!

Salhoonsh: So excited!

Nesaliin: Alright, I'm teleporting her to the room, lets all meet her there.

...

Code Select Expand

A Highly Festive-Looking Gladiator and the Gaj Tavern -- Main Room [NES Quit]
  This common room composes the bulk of the Gladiator and the Gaj
Tavern, a bustling establishment founded in the Year of Suk-Krath's
Defiance of the 19th age.  A cacophony of sounds fills the inn, from the
busy murmur of the many merchants that frequent the location to the
howling of the crowd, greeting the arriving news of the latest arena
fight, to the drunken whine of the hundreds of commonfolk that have made
the place famous.  Stout wooden beams support the panelled roof of the
room, each bearing many drawings carved by the patrons of the tavern.
An agafari-wood bar dominates the western side of the room, the shelves
behind it supporting the weight of many alcoholic beverages.  Wood and
stone tables with matching chairs are strewn all over the chamber in
clusters as to allow waiters and waitresses to circulate with ease.  A
raised platform has been erected in the northeastern corner for the
messengers and hawkers hired by the establishment that relay the latest
news from the arena.  
  Every inch of wall and floor is covered in colorful confetti. A large banner
exclaiming; "Happy Birthday Path!" hangs over the length of the entire room.
Most of the population is wearing some form of party-hat or blowing on some
sort of annoying noise-makers. Basically everyone having a rocking good time.
A wall here is designated as a message board.
Many large casks are here, tapped and ready to go.
The Highlord Tektolnes is sitting at a long, scarred bar of agafari wood.
The Sandlord is sitting at a long, scarred bar of agafari wood.
The Sun-King Muk Utep is sitting at a long, scarred bar of agafari wood.
A dark-skinned human barkeep stands behind the bar, looking exhausted.
The lean, sun-reddened woman weassr a funny-looking party hat in style here.
The hairy, dark-skinned woman decorates the room with streamers here.
The towering, golden-haired half-giant is here singing happy-birthday to herself.

The tall, muscular man appears in a wisp of smoke.
The tall, muscular man says, tracing a hand down your soft skin with his hand, in sirihish:
      "Ah, but Malik. I do love you! I have always loved you and always will."

The Sun-King Muk Utep looks up at the tall muscular man.

The Sandlord looks up at the tall muscular man.

The Highlord Tektolnes looks up at the tall muscular man.

The tall, muscular man blinks.

The tall, muscular man OOC's:
                  "Oh... You guys realize my birthdays -tomorrow- right?"

Nesaliin sends the tall, muscular man:
       "Were you just using "yours" and "his" in an emote? So not cool."


*Staff names were obscured to protect their identity.
**Yes I know Path is a girl.

[mansa]

I remember the wishing up for a reroll.

I swear I still am scared each time I wish up.

[Aaron Goulet]

I remember the wishing up for a reroll.

I swear I still am scared each time I wish up.

No matter what I wish up for, I always feel like I'm inconveniencing someone, which I probably am.

[path]

I remember back in the day sometimes wishing up to get another reroll. Sometimes I would tell them it was my birthday. Sometimes that would work.

... lol wtf. That would never happen for me.  

Nesaliin: Hey guys, it's Path's B-day again!!

Sanaevn: Oh sweet! let's get ready for her surprise guyz!

Salhoonsh: So excited!

Nesaliin: Alright, I'm teleporting her to the room, lets all meet her there.

...

Code Select Expand

A Highly Festive-Looking Gladiator and the Gaj Tavern -- Main Room [NES Quit]
  This common room composes the bulk of the Gladiator and the Gaj
Tavern, a bustling establishment founded in the Year of Suk-Krath's
Defiance of the 19th age.  A cacophony of sounds fills the inn, from the
busy murmur of the many merchants that frequent the location to the
howling of the crowd, greeting the arriving news of the latest arena
fight, to the drunken whine of the hundreds of commonfolk that have made
the place famous.  Stout wooden beams support the panelled roof of the
room, each bearing many drawings carved by the patrons of the tavern.
An agafari-wood bar dominates the western side of the room, the shelves
behind it supporting the weight of many alcoholic beverages.  Wood and
stone tables with matching chairs are strewn all over the chamber in
clusters as to allow waiters and waitresses to circulate with ease.  A
raised platform has been erected in the northeastern corner for the
messengers and hawkers hired by the establishment that relay the latest
news from the arena.  
  Every inch of wall and floor is covered in colorful confetti. A large banner
exclaiming; "Happy Birthday Path!" hangs over the length of the entire room.
Most of the population is wearing some form of party-hat or blowing on some
sort of annoying noise-makers. Basically everyone having a rocking good time.
A wall here is designated as a message board.
Many large casks are here, tapped and ready to go.
The Highlord Tektolnes is sitting at a long, scarred bar of agafari wood.
The Sandlord is sitting at a long, scarred bar of agafari wood.
The Sun-King Muk Utep is sitting at a long, scarred bar of agafari wood.
A dark-skinned human barkeep stands behind the bar, looking exhausted.
The lean, sun-reddened woman weassr a funny-looking party hat in style here.
The hairy, dark-skinned woman decorates the room with streamers here.
The towering, golden-haired half-giant is here singing happy-birthday to herself.

The tall, muscular man appears in a wisp of smoke.
The tall, muscular man says, tracing a hand down your soft skin with his hand, in sirihish:
      "Ah, but Malik. I do love you! I have always loved you and always will."

The Sun-King Muk Utep looks up at the tall muscular man.

The Sandlord looks up at the tall muscular man.

The Highlord Tektolnes looks up at the tall muscular man.

The tall, muscular man blinks.

The tall, muscular man OOC's:
                  "Oh... You guys realize my birthdays -tomorrow- right?"

Nesaliin sends the tall, muscular man:
       "Were you just using "yours" and "his" in an emote? So not cool."


*Staff names were obscured to protect their identity.
**Yes I know Path is a girl.

Favorite... post... ever. That was like the best birthday I ever had, and you made it up in your head.

[Morrolan]

I remember the wishing up for a reroll.

I swear I still am scared each time I wish up.

No matter what I wish up for, I always feel like I'm inconveniencing someone, which I probably am.

When we wish up, we are asking for someone's attention.  The staff have agreed to be there to respond, within limits and guidelines.

BEST PRACTICE: Be Scrupulously Polite.  They're volunteers.

Staff are Semi-professional GM's.  They are "the referees of this sport."  Yes, you can kick sand on their shoes.  And they can kick you out of the game.

But we're all here for the love of the game.

Morrolan

[Niamh]

It's a little disenheartening that people will blow up and complain about how staff keeps doing everything in their power to take things away, or make things more difficult, claiming that players never have any say-so in anything.  It seems as though some of the biggest complainers are hard pressed to show any gratitude or appreciation for the things that staff does to improve things, help out people (and that includes our regular duties as staff such as reimbursements or getting clanned people set up accordingly) even when player feedback is specifically requested for those changes.

Having said that, I am locking this thread.  It has served its purpose.