Guild/Subguild skills

[Nyr]

You can just ask in the request if you're not sure about something.

[Rhyden]

I'm surprised players have gotten so heated up over this. To me, it feels like it isn't really an issue. I couldn't care less if there was a blurb of which skills subguilds get or not. It seems the subguild docs do a pretty good job at telling you which starting skills you'll get already. Besides, -not knowing- is half the fun! Isn't it? I cherished my newbie days solely because there was so much I didn't know. Now I'm a cranky old vet knowing more than I probably should, and the things I look most forwards to are those things that are unknown to me.

The reason I am personally heated is because everyone either thinks this isn't an issue, or doesn't care. Those of us who do think it's an issue, are constantly being condescended by others into believing that everything is fine, and we're the ones who are stupid/inexperienced/not playing right.

If this wasn't an issue people wouldn't take issue with it, for Christ sake.

Alright then I'm going to exchange my indifference with joining the camp that thinks subguilds should remain the way they are because leaving certain aspects and coded technicalities of the game unrevealed to players is beneficial to our enjoyment of the roleplaying required.

[Cerelum]

This feels like a non-issue, when you play for the roleplay.

This is an issue when your used to playing for the H&S action.

I fully believe that anyone trying to play a hack and slash game has left the MUD games and moved on to MMORPGs.  Those people who would mostly benefit from these things don't play our game anymore.
Our game doesn't attract those people.  Why should we make limitations in our game specifically to create a tone in our game to hamper the people who don't play.

Its like allowing "lives" in a game like Mario.  Not needed anymore.  Nobody plays with quarters anymore.

While you are entitled to your own beliefs I would say that from viewing the majority on the GDB, that you sir are the minority.

The problem and great thing about this game is that it is NOT up for vote and the staff doesn't have to do anything the staff doesn't want to do.

The problem, because some staff are set in their ways and think that "Because it's always been this way, it should be this way."  The good is that a good majority of people, myself included at times have requested stuff based mostly out of greed and want for the spoilers and so on.

This however I would have to agree with the side for more descriptive helpfiles and skill knowledge.

If I were to do it, I would make it like Clan Documentation, something that a player could request from staff and have a password protected page.  This way, the ones who are happy with stuff the way it is, they can look at the same old tired "hinty" documentation.

Those of us who want to know what that character we plan to spend 10 days played or more on is going to be able to do with a certainty, can get access to the docs.

So in the end, my hope is that staff will make some type of compromise on this issue, be it one suggested here or one of their own choice.  We are all guests here in the game, but sometimes it's good to heed your guests wishes from time to time you know.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm surprised players have gotten so heated up over this. To me, it feels like it isn't really an issue. I couldn't care less if there was a blurb of which skills subguilds get or not. It seems the subguild docs do a pretty good job at telling you which starting skills you'll get already. Besides, -not knowing- is half the fun! Isn't it? I cherished my newbie days solely because there was so much I didn't know. Now I'm a cranky old vet knowing more than I probably should, and the things I look most forwards to are those things that are unknown to me.

The reason I am personally heated is because everyone either thinks this isn't an issue, or doesn't care. Those of us who do think it's an issue, are constantly being condescended by others into believing that everything is fine, and we're the ones who are stupid/inexperienced/not playing right.

If this wasn't an issue people wouldn't take issue with it, for Christ sake.

Alright then I'm going to exchange my indifference with joining the camp that thinks subguilds should remain the way they are because leaving certain aspects and coded technicalities of the game unrevealed to players is beneficial to our enjoyment of the roleplaying required.

We aren't talking about "certain aspects" we are talking about this one single one. Can you point out how this instance of not letting people know their coded skills until they log into the game is more beneficial than not? I've expressed to you why the opposite is true, but no one has expressed why this would detriment anyone. You never express how it's benefitial to keep things as is, only how it's easy, or less work.

So please, is there anyone else?

[Cerelum]

I'm surprised players have gotten so heated up over this. To me, it feels like it isn't really an issue. I couldn't care less if there was a blurb of which skills subguilds get or not. It seems the subguild docs do a pretty good job at telling you which starting skills you'll get already. Besides, -not knowing- is half the fun! Isn't it? I cherished my newbie days solely because there was so much I didn't know. Now I'm a cranky old vet knowing more than I probably should, and the things I look most forwards to are those things that are unknown to me.

The reason I am personally heated is because everyone either thinks this isn't an issue, or doesn't care. Those of us who do think it's an issue, are constantly being condescended by others into believing that everything is fine, and we're the ones who are stupid/inexperienced/not playing right.

If this wasn't an issue people wouldn't take issue with it, for Christ sake.

Alright then I'm going to exchange my indifference with joining the camp that thinks subguilds should remain the way they are because leaving certain aspects and coded technicalities of the game unrevealed to players is beneficial to our enjoyment of the roleplaying required.

Rhyden,

I don't think you get what is being asked for here.  We aren't saying that we want to know that a thief gets steal which branches into OMFG PWNING YOU.

We would just like to know what coded startup skills we have rather than either having to:

A.  Write them down and save them from each different subguild/guild we pick, that way we have a reference.

B.  Picking something like General Crafter and finding out it blows for your current role and feeling like you screwed yourself over.

C.  Having to store your character because you picked something unplayable by your location, Forester in Red Storm who never intends to leave Red Storm.

I don't believe staff should have to deal with every little request of skill changes when honestly I would rather them focus on things like Special applications, New Character Apps and so on a hell of a lot more than having a round table about switching the skill of so and so to so and so.

So an easy way to alieviate that and make skill requests more rare is to just let folks know what they are getting from the get go.  Some guilds/subguilds tell you everything, some are horribly vague and suck.

[Rhyden]

We aren't talking about "certain aspects" we are talking about this one single one. Can you point out how this instance of not letting people know their coded skills until they log into the game is more beneficial than not? I've expressed to you why the opposite is true, but no one has expressed why this would detriment anyone. You never express how it's benefitial to keep things as is, only how it's easy, or less work.

True, we are speaking about one aspect, which is similar to other aspects of the game staff keep hidden from players.

My explanation on the subject is that in keeping hard code hidden from players, such as pinning 'skill_baloonmaking' to 'subguild_clown', we can focus more on the roleplaying aspect of the game. Also, subguilds already have little blurbs hinting at which starting skills you will get. With my example in mind, you would probably see something like 'clown subguilds are usually adept at making animals out of baloons.'

edit: Also, what LoD said. He summed up my thoughts perfectly.

[Cerelum]

We aren't talking about "certain aspects" we are talking about this one single one. Can you point out how this instance of not letting people know their coded skills until they log into the game is more beneficial than not? I've expressed to you why the opposite is true, but no one has expressed why this would detriment anyone. You never express how it's benefitial to keep things as is, only how it's easy, or less work.

True, we are speaking about one aspect, which is similar to other aspects of the game staff keep hidden from players.

My explanation on the subject is that in keeping hard code hidden from players, such as pinning 'skill_baloonmaking' to 'subguild_clown', we can focus more on the roleplaying aspect of the game. Also, subguilds already have little blurbs hinting at which starting skills you will get. With my example in mind, you would probably see something like 'clown subguilds are usually adept at making animals out of baloons.'

Sometimes people don't want to sort through all the verbal masturbation to find the hidden meanings.

We are expected to react realistically to the world within which we play in.  Some of us have Karma to play hugely dangerous guilds/races.

Yet we aren't trusted with a simple cause and effect type of information??  X gives you X Y and Z.  It just seems like much of the way things are held aren't even in the least by my eyes. 

This I think all falls down on that classic arguement from anyone who's been around longer than someone else, "I had to walk to school, so should you." when in reality that's not a reasonable or logical way to look at things.  Just because it always -has- been one way, doesn't doom it to always be that way.

To me the mechanics rules is fine and good, everyone shouldn't know that they have to branch underwater basketweaving into scuba diving, but I must stress what you folks I don't think are getting in big letters now.

We don't want to know anything beyond what we will gain by typing username,password,e,enter, point Allanak, skills!

[RogueGunslinger]

We aren't talking about "certain aspects" we are talking about this one single one. Can you point out how this instance of not letting people know their coded skills until they log into the game is more beneficial than not? I've expressed to you why the opposite is true, but no one has expressed why this would detriment anyone. You never express how it's benefitial to keep things as is, only how it's easy, or less work.

True, we are speaking about one aspect, which is similar to other aspects of the game staff keep hidden from players.

My explanation on the subject is that in keeping hard code hidden from players, such as pinning 'skill_baloonmaking' to 'subguild_clown', we can focus more on the roleplaying aspect of the game. Also, subguilds already have little blurbs hinting at which starting skills you will get. With my example in mind, you would probably see something like 'clown subguilds are usually adept at making animals out of baloons.'

edit: Also, what LoD said. He summed up my thoughts perfectly.

But you're treating this as information that we wouldn't have just by logging in. We already have access to this info. We just want it a little bit earlier. How could having information a bit sooner keep us from focusing on the roleplay? We still get the same info, we just get to flesh out are character better out before we submut it and have to go back and fix thing later.

That's my question to you. How could this information be detrimental when everyone already has access to it?


/fin

[Cerelum]

We aren't talking about "certain aspects" we are talking about this one single one. Can you point out how this instance of not letting people know their coded skills until they log into the game is more beneficial than not? I've expressed to you why the opposite is true, but no one has expressed why this would detriment anyone. You never express how it's benefitial to keep things as is, only how it's easy, or less work.

True, we are speaking about one aspect, which is similar to other aspects of the game staff keep hidden from players.

My explanation on the subject is that in keeping hard code hidden from players, such as pinning 'skill_baloonmaking' to 'subguild_clown', we can focus more on the roleplaying aspect of the game. Also, subguilds already have little blurbs hinting at which starting skills you will get. With my example in mind, you would probably see something like 'clown subguilds are usually adept at making animals out of baloons.'

edit: Also, what LoD said. He summed up my thoughts perfectly.

But you're treating this as information that we wouldn't have just by logging in. We already have access to this info. We just want it a little bit earlier. How could having information a bit sooner keep us from focusing on the roleplay? We still get the same info, we just get to flesh out are character better out before we submut it and have to go back and fix thing later.

That's my question to you. How could this information be detrimental when everyone already has access to it?


/fin

I think some of you aren't understanding this bolded point...it's not super sekret info, it's just inconvienient info.

[Nyr]

A solution has been proposed.  A couple of people have submitted requests towards it.  Not everyone is going to be happy with it.

Please follow the instructions for pursuing this solution, or it won't be done, period.  Pointless arguments like this just make it less likely anyone will want to do anything for it.