The Place of Gemmed Citizens

[WWYD]

I'd just like to reinforce what Gimf and Moe/Decameron were discussing earlier in the thread real quick: I could care less about the IC/OOC slave thing, but seriously, to whoever it may apply (and really, you know who you are, if this need be apply to you), just because you CAN do things with Awesome Magickal People doesn't mean you should. Not to say Awesome Magickal People shouldn't get bossed around, but please, for god's sakes, don't be afraid to use the mundane PCs.

I cannot state how much I hated and resented, as an AoD Sergeant, always hearing, "Oh yeah there's this mission but I'm gonna have the gemmed do it." Meanwhile the very capable group of soldiers I had built sat on our asses and had little to do but train, drink at the Gaj, and chase the occasional criminal.

This is a super lame situation to be a part of. Seriously.

[Durant]

I'm confused by this thread, this almost seems as though it would be better served using the player request tool.

As for being or not being a slave, tell that to the offending templar and see how they react.

This is an IC issue IMO

I do agree however, mundanes are where it's at!

[Durant]

I thought I should clarify, I'm assuming you're talking a figerative slave "telling someone what they should do" as opposed to a literal slave, (boxing the person up and not allowing them any freedom)

[prty.prty.prncss]

As the player of an Allanaki Templar, I can say that my only usage of gemmed has been for things I could not use soldiers for.

[Aaron Goulet]

As the player of an Allanaki Templar, I can say that my only usage of gemmed has been for things I could not use soldiers for.

Same.  And also, people tend to forget that "mundanes" tend to be better than magickers at quite a few things too, namely making useful social connections and gathering information.

[musashi]

As the player of an Allanaki Templar, I can say that my only usage of gemmed has been for things I could not use soldiers for.

Same.  And also, people tend to forget that "mundanes" tend to be better than magickers at quite a few things too, namely making useful social connections and gathering information.

And just about any mundane skill not covered with a high cap by a subguild.

[WWYD]

As the player of an Allanaki Templar, I can say that my only usage of gemmed has been for things I could not use soldiers for.

I'm sorry if you feel like my post was pointed at you (or any of the other templars in particular, for that matter). The last time I played a gemmer in Allanak that was dependent on the Templerate was several years ago, so I have no real experience with this,  but beside that, that post could apply to anyone, really, not just a templar.

A Templar doesn't necessarily need to use a soldier for X task, mundane, and just because a soldier normally couldn't do X... well, templars make the rules.

[Weregortok]

Wow. I just found an old staff quote that cleared some questions up for me, and I thought I'd share it.
I don't see how people get so bent out of shape when they disagree with others.

I get two things out of the discussion so far.
A. In Allanak, mundane citizens and gemmed citizens both have the same rights in and duties to the Highlord/City State.
B. These rights are about as transparent as a 100 day Whirran and the duties as absolute and as firm as a giant steel Dragon.



From previous discussions:
A. Templars are strongly discouraged by staff, for OOC reasons, from forcefully drafting mundanes or anyone else into service in the Militia.
B. There is little difference between a drafted militia PC and an gemmed citizen that is ordered on a petty/awesome mission by the templarate every time they are both logged in.

[Aaron Goulet]

Nice sharing, Weregortok.  I'd never seen that before.

[FantasyWriter]

Let gemmed who want to join the militia. Problem solved.

[Salt Merchant]

I cannot state how much I hated and resented, as an AoD Sergeant, always hearing, "Oh yeah there's this mission but I'm gonna have the gemmed do it." Meanwhile the very capable group of soldiers I had built sat on our asses and had little to do but train, drink at the Gaj, and chase the occasional criminal.

This is a super lame situation to be a part of. Seriously.

I think those days (the X-men days, some would say) are long over.

[Salt Merchant]

Let gemmed who want to join the militia. Problem solved.

Actually, I thought about this. The gemmed that join would never make private but would stay permanently recruits (i.e. they'd have no authority over commoners). They'd still train with the soldiers and be subject to orders.

The problem in the past too, though, has been that the soldiers have also felt overshadowed when they've gone out together with the gemmed. Bang-zap-pow and the battle is over.

Maybe recruiting could be limited to Vivaduans (and Rukkians?), who can provide useful support but not dominate outcomes. Again, permanently recruits.

[WWYD]

I think those days (the X-men days, some would say) are long over.

One would hope. I'm not saying it's happening or it's likely to happen or anything of that nature, just that if it does you have one very bored group of players (the AoD of that paticular year, well, we were damn good at making our own fun), or players not getting enough love, or players that could easily be involved just not getting a chance. It doesn't have to be X-Men, necessarily.

Also, on magickers in the milita: that's fairly far-fetched, as awesome as it could be. Would your average Zalanthan mob of Zalanthan commoners like to see their guys and gals in the black and green actively working with the cursed scum of the Known World? And the average recruit/private probably wouldn't be too fond of the idea, either!

[Salt Merchant]

Would your average Zalanthan mob of Zalanthan commoners like to see their guys and gals in the black and green actively working with the cursed scum of the Known World?

Well, they do already. Everytime there's another invasion of fiery demons/big nasties/whatever. People must be aware that gemmed are commonly used in military situations. (Especially after the Copper War).

[Pale Horse]

Also, on magickers in the milita: that's fairly far-fetched, as awesome as it could be. Would your average Zalanthan mob of Zalanthan commoners like to see their guys and gals in the black and green actively working with the cursed scum of the Known World? And the average recruit/private probably wouldn't be too fond of the idea, either!

Depends on said recruit/private's Superiors.  If they want magickers, then they'll have them, and the recruit/private had better shut up and soldier, or end up being put on point during the next dangerous mission.

[MarshallDFX]

OOC criticism is a necessary and important part of becoming a more mature and more contributing player. And when the solution to IC issues of all kinds often is to kill the offending party--well, I'd rather we discuss it OOCly first before I get PKed, or you do (that's general you), or someone else does. IC consequences are not and should not be the only means to learning and improving one's play.

Indeed, but OOC criticism should be done via the player request tool.

[Gimfalisette]

Indeed, but OOC criticism should be done via the player request tool.

Wrong. Specific OOC complaints should be made via the player request tool. General OOC criticism should be done on the GDB. There is a big difference there.

I don't use the complaint form unless something is horrendously, egregiously wrongly done. Which means I've used it...twice, ever. (Versus sending 80+ kudos.)

[Rhyden]

It's one thing to preach, it's another thing to practice.

Personally, I don't think this thread serves much purpose other than discouraging templars' behavior. There have been threads like this one in the past, and trust me, they don't change the views of players, and they don't solve these problems which seem to crop up every couple months.

These issues are dependent on IC situations. Some Templars will use gemmed more than others - don't worry about it, there are IC consequences. Gemmed are allowed to exist in Allanak for the Highlord's use (templars), so it shouldn't be any big surprise if they're forced into doing some work.

Bottom line, if you want a templar who puts gemmed in their place, app one. Don't come to the GDB and tell people how to run a certain guild if you can't and won't do it yourself.

[MarshallDFX]

Indeed, but OOC criticism should be done via the player request tool.

Wrong. Specific OOC complaints should be made via the player request tool. General OOC criticism should be done on the GDB. There is a big difference there.

I don't use the complaint form unless something is horrendously, egregiously wrongly done. Which means I've used it...twice, ever. (Versus sending 80+ kudos.)

Yes, but it often degenerates into the "I'd like to discourage" threads.  All to often the comments were just thinly veiled attacks on certain players.  Perhaps I'm just paranoid.

I'd like an example of a general OOC criticism.  Is this one?

[musashi]

Please remember to use mundanes and not just the magickers ... even though magickers can usually get your typical "go to X and bring me back Y" style mini-quests done a lot faster 

[Twilight]

Perhaps there have been gemmed in the AoD.

[lussien]

Ooooh, now I know why one of my PC always awoke feeling empty and bored in the barracks in the AoD.

True, there was one templar whom I started to love OOCly, he was an awesome person. Brought me around and did some sinister things, sadly my PC didn't get to be trained under him. I'm sure if my PC had stuck around with that templar PC, I would have a fun time. But right after that and the new Templar taking over, I found myself getting uber bored and tried to move my PC to another area and become an indie. Died most shamefully, with a soldier's heart.

I do realize that there's almost nothing to do in Allanak, except, salting, spicing, dunging or mining. During the times where I've played in Allanak, there's little to no plots where I could be sucked in, even if it was a minor confrontation. Yes, I agree in the few previous posts that those in the leadering role, should go out there and involve those who are directly underneath them.

Even if they state, the templarate, dont or rarely go out walking around in the common streets. That PC templar that I had RPed with didn't do that. He went out and was there, he interacted. I know it's the basis, but I do think it's okay to go against it, because hey, it's realism, everything is flexible and not fixed on stone. Spreading the fun will actually get more people to want more and so filling their fill of the game's already rich history and the way it was coded and made with every player's gaming pleasure in mind.

It's very difficult to find a game where the staff thinks about the player's gaming experience. <3 Armageddon.
By the way, I read about Arm 2.0. It's still in the making no? I hope it gets finished soon, I wanna try playing it

[Akoto]

Even if they state, the templarate, dont or rarely go out walking around in the common streets. That PC templar that I had RPed with didn't do that. He went out and was there, he interacted. I know it's the basis, but I do think it's okay to go against it, because hey, it's realism, everything is flexible and not fixed on stone. Spreading the fun will actually get more people to want more and so filling their fill of the game's already rich history and the way it was coded and made with every player's gaming pleasure in mind.

Hi,

Nothing in the documentation says that templars are unable to go out among the public. As the player of a templar for some time (and the one I suspect you were displeased with), I'm almost always out in the open. It's tough to do the job solely from within the Templar's Quarter.

I regularly run events which include other players. It's important for you to realize that, at least when you were with the faction, you were an off-peak player. Not all templars would be able to associate with you under those circumstances -- and of those who could, they may not want you in their company at all times. They have private things that they do, and to some extent, Sergeants are expected to lead in their absence. The AoD is not the Byn, in player population or leadership numbers, so there'll be times when you are admittedly on your own.

As for spreading the fun, leaders (and staff members, when applicable) generally aim to schedule events at times which are likely to include the most people. However, trying to schedule for all people is a futile task. You'll never do it, and you'll go nuts trying. It usually comes down to stating an hour and hoping that several folks can make it.

Allanak is hardly a dead location, particularly at this time. I'm aware of all manner of things going on, new figures in power, and several thriving factions. It's all in your pursuit of involvement. You, much like leaders, can't wait for it to come to you. Hope your experience improves in the future!

To address the ongoing discussion ...

There are times when using the Gemmed is necessary. It may be for reasons of efficiency, or because they can do something a soldier can't (a few such things do exist). This doesn't make them slaves, but rather, the same victims of His Templarate's demands as the next citizen. As well, I personally love to use the AoD whenever possible, and I have on both a regular basis and in several big RPTs. That said, we do so with care. Templars have superiors of their own, and they suffer serious consequences for screwing up in bad ways -- like getting a bunch of soldiers killed. As such, the safe method is sometimes the favored method.

[Ampere]

I agree with this thread's general sentiment.  It also acts as an excellent reminder to those it could prove useful.  Anyone in a position of power who relies too heavily on one crutch or another, is going to find themselves in a very precarious position.  Those who succeed, do so because they've diversified.  A lazy templar, is a dead templar.

[janeshephard]

Wait wait wait. How in the world are you supposed to buy a mercantile token if templars are supposed to be shut-ins? No wonder I never get around to getting the token. I never see a templar in Allanak when I play!