The Place of Gemmed Citizens

[Weregortok]

Was directed to this little "gem" by a helper:

A gem gives a magicker permission to live in Allanak, without it they are killed.

Magickers are not the same level as your average commoner, they are set apart by their gem. They are marked in this way as citizens, servants an magickers of the state of Allanak.  The statement that gemmed are granted the right to live in Allanak is correct. It is only by the benevolence of the Highlord that they are tolerated to live. Every other person, be the dwarf, human or elf does not need to have this granted.

Are they slaves of the city state? No. They do not belong to the Templarate any more than any other person within Naks walls. But they are not the same as every other commoner. Legally they are not slaves, but as we all know, the law doesn't really apply in Zalanthas.

Once upon a time gemmed were considered Oash's domain, because near all of them worked for Oash, this was the playerbases assumptions based on what they saw IC.  People assumed if they played a gemmed, they'd be working for Oash.  If people are perceiving gemmed to be little more than Templars slaves in game it's more likely a reaction to what they are observing ICly.

To change that perception players of both the gemmed and the Templarate need to make an effort not to perpetuate that ICly. If you're a Templar walking around with a cadre of magickers, if you're a magicker who goes running to a Templar for work instead of working alone, going to an Oashi, finding some other employment, you're just reinforcing the belief.

I'm not sure if this was meant to be a recruitment post to get people to play gemmed, or to try and get gemmers to be something other than Templarate puppets. In the end most everyone is right. Gemmed are not slaves, they are different from your average commoner, they can have lives outside of being puppets of Templar/Noble House/Whatever.  

Thought it could serve as a friendly reminder that Gemmed aren't any more 'slaves' of the Templarate/nobles than other common citizen.
I would also think that this goes double for gemmed citizens who are aligned with other houses or powerful social groups.

PS: The whole old thread is a pretty good read on the subject as well.

[Gimfalisette]

Yes. Thank you. Good reminder.

While gemmed often do choose (emphasis on the choice there) to align themselves with the templarate, or to seek actual employment with House Oash, it is not required to do so. A gemmer should be perfectly free to live his/her life as an indie, free of entanglement in magickal or political plots. I believe that one of the big reasons many players who want to play magickers will choose to play rogues rather than playing gemmed is because there is often so much pressure from the templarate to bend to this idea that gemmed are slaves. This attitude only serves to drives players out of the city.

[Akoto]

I'm not certain of what provoked this post, but I'll add my own note to it ...

Gemmed may not be the legal slaves of the Templarate, but they can be called to His Templarate's service in time of need, just as with any other citizen. This is true. It's your patriotic duty, so get your butt over here, etc etc. As the Templars are the only ones who can invoke the power of the Gems, it can be implied that they do wield greater authority over the mages than they do other citizens. Point of view on the Templar's part.

Of course, where the law is concerned, it's as unreliable as you've said. Templars have the power to make up laws on the fly, sometimes to subvert other laws!

[Gimfalisette]

The problem here is that the templarate (and to a lesser extent, the militia) has the singular power within Allanak to make the city unpalatable to play in, for a large quantity of players. While the VNPC and NPC population of the city aren't going to be driven away by PC templars forcefully threatening and coercing PCs into service, PCs will. When I played in the AoD, we were highly conscious of balancing our power against individuals and organizations so that we did not drive players away.

Also, the foofaraw about "gemmed can be called to service in time of need just like any other citizen" is a smokescreen, IMO. Other citizens are never called into service the way gemmed are. I have never seen Amos the ranger threatened with his life if he doesn't immediately go to Red Storm to pick up spice for Lady Templar Gaga. But gemmed are threatened in this manner frequently.

A last point--overuse of the gemmed leads to underuse of mundane militia and other citizens. Magick should not be the magick solution to every problem the templarate has. It makes mundanes feel useless and hopeless. (Been there, done that, it sucks!) I would like to encourage every player to not look to magick first for solutions, as well as not making every plot center around acquiring leet magick equipment or completing some fancy ritual. There's lots of mundane stuff to be done and most of it should be accomplishable by mundane means.

[Marauder Moe]

I believe that realistically, most gemmed citizens are NOT Oashis or templar pets, even if most gemmed PCs are (but I don't believe that is often the case).

The perception of (non-Oash) gemmed all being slaves is partly an IC one.  It's of great benefit for the templarate to perpetuate that idea.  It both placates the mundane population as well as helps keep the gemmed in line.

It is far from unreasonable for templars to treat gemmed more harshly than ungemmed.  Due to their rarity/usefulness, it seems logical that templars would be quicker to call upon their services over those of a mundane.  Due to their power/danger, it seems logical that they should be punished more quickly and severely than a mundane.

That said, gemmed are not true slaves.  A templar may call on them at any time to perform services, but they should expect to be compensated for it.  As said, the same is largely true for non-gemmed as well.  Likewise, it would be unreasonable for a templar to forbid a gemmed to travel or otherwise restrict their activities beyond the normal citizen, unless perhaps they were offered some continual compensation (read: employment).


I guess in short I disagree with:

Thought it could serve as a friendly reminder that Gemmed aren't any more 'slaves' of the Templarate/nobles than other common citizen.

I don't think that's what Adhira's post says.  They are more slaves than the common citizen, but they are less slaves than actual slaves.

[Marauder Moe]

Also, the foofaraw about "gemmed can be called to service in time of need just like any other citizen" is a smokescreen, IMO. Other citizens are never called into service the way gemmed are. I have never seen Amos the ranger threatened with his life if he doesn't immediately go to Red Storm to pick up spice for Lady Templar Gaga. But gemmed are threatened in this manner frequently.

I've seen it.  But, you're right, the gemmed have that happen much more.

[/quote]A last point--overuse of the gemmed leads to underuse of mundane militia and other citizens. Magick should not be the magick solution to every problem the templarate has. It makes mundanes feel useless and hopeless. (Been there, done that, it sucks!) I would like to encourage every player to not look to magick first for solutions, as well as not making every plot center around acquiring leet magick equipment or completing some fancy ritual. There's lots of mundane stuff to be done and most of it should be accomplishable by mundane means.
[/quote]
Agreed.  It's a balancing act, though.  Gemmers are PCs too!  I believe that every templar should have a gemmer pet, but never more than two (and calling on both at the same time should be rare).  While groups of gemmed can easily make mundanes redundant, just one will still leave gaps that the soldiers can fill.

[Gimfalisette]

Due to their rarity/usefulness, it seems logical that templars would be quicker to call upon their services over those of a mundane.

This, I just have to emphasize again, I utterly disagree with. When templars overuse magickers, they underuse mundanes. For the most part, when templars are calling on gemmed to do stuff, they are assigning tasks that can definitely be done by mundanes; but the templar is simply seeking what they consider to be an easier/faster solution. I cannot state how much I hated and resented, as an AoD Sergeant, always hearing, "Oh yeah there's this mission but I'm gonna have the gemmed do it." Meanwhile the very capable group of soldiers I had built sat on our asses and had little to do but train, drink at the Gaj, and chase the occasional criminal. We wanted to be the ones to go scouting, go kill something, go do anything, but we were rarely allowed to do so--because some gemmer could do it quicker/easier in the templar's mind.

The few thousand templars who work for Tek are not all calling on gemmed constantly to do their work. They are calling on soldiers, they are using their connections with the nobility, they are hiring the Byn, they are working under the table with the Guild, they are coordinating with the GMHs. They are using a full set of resources instead of narrowly focusing on the gemmed as the solution to every problem. I would strongly urge players of templars to be creative when thinking about how to get things done; when only the gemmed get used (and constantly), then one set of players is burned out while another grows resentful. Allanak is so much more fun when everyone gets something to do.

Playing ARM is not about winning, after all; especially as a leader, it's about spreading the fun around so everyone gets some. Yes, you might like to see Malik the elf dead, but relying on magick to do the job every time because it's a "winning" solution impoverishes the game.

Added: I don't think we really disagree, Moe. But I have to argue on the side of the mundanes, it's what I do Yes, gemmed need love too, but from what I see historically, they almost always get tasks to do. I want to see it balanced, is all.

[Marauder Moe]

When I said "mundane", I meant random unaffiliated Amos the ranger, not the militia.  You're right, the militia should be first and foremost.

EDIT: and it should be an appropriate task.  A templar shouldn't be grabbing a whiran just to retrieve spice for his buddy Lord Fale.

[Decameron]

Rather than pointing out the usefulness of one over the other, in terms of mechanics, or their social positions in the City: I'd just like to say that the two aren't mutually exclusive. Why not use both? A good Templar that has an abundance of resources at his/her hands, when faced with a problem, isn't going to say, "I should put about 10% of my effort into dealing with this. Drov, it's just trying to destroy the Noble Quarters, after all." He or She is going to put an all out approach, in cases of emergency, ultizing all those resources that Gimfalisette mentioned, rather than just picking and choosing. That isn't to say that certain classes don't handle the situations better than others, but Armageddon is supposed to be realistic, in a sense, and in the real world sometimes the odds aren't stacked to your strong-points. One might think that an advantage of these two categories of individuals working together towards a common goal might assist (never resolve) in aleivating some tension between them.*

Point being that it solves the whole crisis of who should get the RP and who shouldn't in such situations. I remember one of my first characters having to worked with a Gemmed, and having my fingers shaking at the keyboard, and not because I was afraid of the gith, either.

Now to comment on the social position, I agree with Moe that the Gemmed are worse off than slaves. However, to use an old expression, slaves are kanks, and gemmed are kanks that can do pretty tricks. The Gemmed should always be treated with disdain, and the Gemmed and Commoner gap should never be closed, but if a Templar is ordering you to work along side a Gemmed, I suppose it depends on your character mentality as to what the reaction might be. In favor of the mundane class, they heavily outnumber the Gemmed, yes, but in both cases I'm in favor of the "There's always more where that came from" approach when it comes to Noble/Templarate views on the Commoner/Gemmed.


*Note: I don't want to live in a world where mundanes and Gemmed get along.

[FantasyWriter]

Magick

Magick is a mysterious and very rare power on Zalanthas, about which the general public knows very little, and generally fears and hates a great deal. While magickers are tolerated in some places, they are generally feared and distrusted by the vast majority of the population of Zalanthas. In many places, magickers are killed upon discovery, and even the rumor that one is a magicker can lead to one's death.

In Allanak, magickers are required to register their presence with the Templarate immediately, and to wear a marker of their status for the rest of their lives. (This marker is supposedly a black gem worn at the neck.) As such, registered magickers in Allanak have the same rights as do the mundane citizens of the city.

In Tuluk, fear and hatred of magick among the populace are widespread, in no small part due to the destruction of Old Tuluk by a magickal cataclysm. Known magickers of any sort are killed on sight. Any magickers who do attempt to live out their lives in Tuluk do so in secrecy, with a never-ending fear of being discovered and put to death.

[Marauder Moe]

FW, what are you implying?

[Decameron]

Having the same rights doesn't mean equality. Haven't you learned anything from the sixties?

[Niamh]

Any templar has the right to persuade, coerce, or bully any commoner, with or without gem, within the walls do do anything they see fit.  Consequences may come from that, depending on who they do it to.

[Cavaticus]

As a more useful thought experiment, go ahead and list the rights that the average Allanaki citizen enjoys.

[Akoto]

As a more useful thought experiment, go ahead and list the rights that the average Allanaki citizen enjoys.

They have the right - indeed, the privilege - to serve the Highlord's Will, whatever that may be. 

[FantasyWriter]

FW, what are you implying?

That all citizens holds the same right, you know.. kinda like the documentation for the games says (don't fool yourself, there aren't any, but they do all have them same ones).

[Zoltan]

Any templar has the right to persuade, coerce, or bully any commoner, with or without gem, within the walls do do anything they see fit.  Consequences may come from that, depending on who they do it to.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

This thread is another example of one of those things that -can- and -should- be taken care of completely ICly rather than putting OOC pressure on players to fine tune their RP to whatever the apparent consensus may be. If someone seems totally out of line, just file a complaint or email the staff or something.

[Gimfalisette]

This thread is another example of one of those things that -can- and -should- be taken care of completely ICly rather than putting OOC pressure on players to fine tune their RP to whatever the apparent consensus may be. If someone seems totally out of line, just file a complaint or email the staff or something.

I learned a lot about effectively playing a Tuluki bard in a way that doesn't OOCly piss off the majority of the playerbase via discussion on the GDB. (I got kudos from dedicated Nakki-playing bard haters.)

I learned a lot about effectively playing an AoD officer in a way that doesn't OOCly piss off the majority of the playerbase via discussion on the GDB. (I got kudos from players whose PCs I harassed and abused.)

I learned a lot about effectively playing a noble in a way that doesn't OOCly piss off the majority of the playerbase via discussion on the GDB. (Again, kudos involved.)

The GDB is an important vehicle for improving and adjusting our play. Players should always be willing to learn from what is talked about here, in order to make the game better for the entire playerbase. Just because a player has been granted a sponsored role doesn't mean that s/he should be unwilling to listen to and learn from criticism.

Also, many of the issues at hand are OOC issues.

[Ender]

I've also seen this issue arise as a more common and widespread IC misconception rather than anyone's specific roleplay so it's good to see reminders like this every so often.

[FantasyWriter]

This thread is another example of one of those things that -can- and -should- be taken care of completely ICly rather than putting OOC pressure on players to fine tune their RP to whatever the apparent consensus may be. If someone seems totally out of line, just file a complaint or email the staff or something.

Documentation and staff comments are not "common consensus."

[Zoltan]

"Playing effectively" isn't the point of any role in Armageddon. I know, I know, many disagree. Reminding players of the game world, staff views and documentation is good. Insinuating someone is not doing the game justice because of including or not including whoever or whatever just doesn't sit well with me.

FW you will note that I agreed with the documentation and staff comments. What -I- (likely just me) perceive as OOC criticism for things that can be handled completely ICly is what bugs me.

I too garnered a buttload of kudos, heart-warming thumbs ups and man-tear-inducing account notes for my play in a sponsored role and other roles as well. I'm glad other people had fun. But if I worried about what everyone else thought about my play besides what staff have said and what's in the docs, well, things would have sucked. Actually... come to think of it, I -am- worrying about it otherwise I wouldn't be posting! 

[FantasyWriter]

I agree with you for the most part as well, but I don't believe the OP bringing up the position of the Gemmed in Allanak is "fine tuning" anyone's roleplay.
I, for one, use to actually thing the Gemmed -were- slaves to the Templarate, and this wasn't too long ago.  I've seen many instances IG where those outside Allanak believed just that.

PS - Many times "common consensus" can move beyond the scope of the documented game world, and even contricictory to it.  Reminders and discussions like that keep "common consensus" from becoming "the way things are" despite documentation.

[Harmonic]

All Allanaki citizens, gemmed or not, are "slaves" to the will of the Highlord (read: PC templars).

Gemmers just get ordered around more often because they're useful in specific ways.

[X-D]

And, People -from- outside nak maybe should believe it. Or maybe they should believe that gemmed are really animated petoch fruit around only to amuse the templars.

And even if the docs state what something really is, that does not always mean that the masses, commoners, people who cannot read or write, who are kept down as much as possible would know these things. There is indeed nothing wrong with somebody who has lived in allanak since birth thinking that gemmers are templars slaves or that the gems are how the highlord stops gemmers from exploding if sunlight hits them. Only Templars and nobles need know the truth.
AND, if a templar states that all gemmers are his/her slave...guess what, they are.

Myself, I took offense at the OP.

Well, not really offense, but the quote is from another thread and out of context.
Another reason I prefer thread res over new ones on the same matter.

[Gimfalisette]

"Playing effectively" isn't the point of any role in Armageddon. I know, I know, many disagree. Reminding players of the game world, staff views and documentation is good. Insinuating someone is not doing the game justice because of including or not including whoever or whatever just doesn't sit well with me.

FW you will note that I agreed with the documentation and staff comments. What -I- (likely just me) perceive as OOC criticism for things that can be handled completely ICly is what bugs me.

I too garnered a buttload of kudos, heart-warming thumbs ups and man-tear-inducing account notes for my play in a sponsored role and other roles as well. I'm glad other people had fun. But if I worried about what everyone else thought about my play besides what staff have said and what's in the docs, well, things would have sucked. Actually... come to think of it, I -am- worrying about it otherwise I wouldn't be posting! 

I don't "worry" about what others think of my play--whether that means players or staff. (This is why I don't request my account notes.) I do, however, want to always be improving my play so that Armageddon is a better and better game.

What I meant to say about the kudos and all is--that prior to getting kudos for the roles I played, I also got some complaints for those roles and/or there was some critical discussion generated on the GDB. Upon receiving complaints and participating in discussion, I adjusted--after which I eventually got kudos. Ask jstorrie about my newbie crimes against barddom, I'm sure he'll be happy to recount

Yes, I believe that if those in sponsored leadership roles are not casting a wide net and involving a lot of players, then they are not using their roles to the full. The whole point of sponsored leadership roles is to involve other players--check it, that's in the docs.

OOC criticism is a necessary and important part of becoming a more mature and more contributing player. And when the solution to IC issues of all kinds often is to kill the offending party--well, I'd rather we discuss it OOCly first before I get PKed, or you do (that's general you), or someone else does. IC consequences are not and should not be the only means to learning and improving one's play.

[WWYD]

I'd just like to reinforce what Gimf and Moe/Decameron were discussing earlier in the thread real quick: I could care less about the IC/OOC slave thing, but seriously, to whoever it may apply (and really, you know who you are, if this need be apply to you), just because you CAN do things with Awesome Magickal People doesn't mean you should. Not to say Awesome Magickal People shouldn't get bossed around, but please, for god's sakes, don't be afraid to use the mundane PCs.

I cannot state how much I hated and resented, as an AoD Sergeant, always hearing, "Oh yeah there's this mission but I'm gonna have the gemmed do it." Meanwhile the very capable group of soldiers I had built sat on our asses and had little to do but train, drink at the Gaj, and chase the occasional criminal.

This is a super lame situation to be a part of. Seriously.

[Durant]

I'm confused by this thread, this almost seems as though it would be better served using the player request tool.

As for being or not being a slave, tell that to the offending templar and see how they react.

This is an IC issue IMO

I do agree however, mundanes are where it's at!

[Durant]

I thought I should clarify, I'm assuming you're talking a figerative slave "telling someone what they should do" as opposed to a literal slave, (boxing the person up and not allowing them any freedom)

[prty.prty.prncss]

As the player of an Allanaki Templar, I can say that my only usage of gemmed has been for things I could not use soldiers for.

[Aaron Goulet]

As the player of an Allanaki Templar, I can say that my only usage of gemmed has been for things I could not use soldiers for.

Same.  And also, people tend to forget that "mundanes" tend to be better than magickers at quite a few things too, namely making useful social connections and gathering information.

[musashi]

As the player of an Allanaki Templar, I can say that my only usage of gemmed has been for things I could not use soldiers for.

Same.  And also, people tend to forget that "mundanes" tend to be better than magickers at quite a few things too, namely making useful social connections and gathering information.

And just about any mundane skill not covered with a high cap by a subguild.

[WWYD]

As the player of an Allanaki Templar, I can say that my only usage of gemmed has been for things I could not use soldiers for.

I'm sorry if you feel like my post was pointed at you (or any of the other templars in particular, for that matter). The last time I played a gemmer in Allanak that was dependent on the Templerate was several years ago, so I have no real experience with this,  but beside that, that post could apply to anyone, really, not just a templar.

A Templar doesn't necessarily need to use a soldier for X task, mundane, and just because a soldier normally couldn't do X... well, templars make the rules.

[Weregortok]

Wow. I just found an old staff quote that cleared some questions up for me, and I thought I'd share it.
I don't see how people get so bent out of shape when they disagree with others.

I get two things out of the discussion so far.
A. In Allanak, mundane citizens and gemmed citizens both have the same rights in and duties to the Highlord/City State.
B. These rights are about as transparent as a 100 day Whirran and the duties as absolute and as firm as a giant steel Dragon.



From previous discussions:
A. Templars are strongly discouraged by staff, for OOC reasons, from forcefully drafting mundanes or anyone else into service in the Militia.
B. There is little difference between a drafted militia PC and an gemmed citizen that is ordered on a petty/awesome mission by the templarate every time they are both logged in.

[Aaron Goulet]

Nice sharing, Weregortok.  I'd never seen that before.

[FantasyWriter]

Let gemmed who want to join the militia. Problem solved.

[Salt Merchant]

I cannot state how much I hated and resented, as an AoD Sergeant, always hearing, "Oh yeah there's this mission but I'm gonna have the gemmed do it." Meanwhile the very capable group of soldiers I had built sat on our asses and had little to do but train, drink at the Gaj, and chase the occasional criminal.

This is a super lame situation to be a part of. Seriously.

I think those days (the X-men days, some would say) are long over.

[Salt Merchant]

Let gemmed who want to join the militia. Problem solved.

Actually, I thought about this. The gemmed that join would never make private but would stay permanently recruits (i.e. they'd have no authority over commoners). They'd still train with the soldiers and be subject to orders.

The problem in the past too, though, has been that the soldiers have also felt overshadowed when they've gone out together with the gemmed. Bang-zap-pow and the battle is over.

Maybe recruiting could be limited to Vivaduans (and Rukkians?), who can provide useful support but not dominate outcomes. Again, permanently recruits.

[WWYD]

I think those days (the X-men days, some would say) are long over.

One would hope. I'm not saying it's happening or it's likely to happen or anything of that nature, just that if it does you have one very bored group of players (the AoD of that paticular year, well, we were damn good at making our own fun), or players not getting enough love, or players that could easily be involved just not getting a chance. It doesn't have to be X-Men, necessarily.

Also, on magickers in the milita: that's fairly far-fetched, as awesome as it could be. Would your average Zalanthan mob of Zalanthan commoners like to see their guys and gals in the black and green actively working with the cursed scum of the Known World? And the average recruit/private probably wouldn't be too fond of the idea, either!

[Salt Merchant]

Would your average Zalanthan mob of Zalanthan commoners like to see their guys and gals in the black and green actively working with the cursed scum of the Known World?

Well, they do already. Everytime there's another invasion of fiery demons/big nasties/whatever. People must be aware that gemmed are commonly used in military situations. (Especially after the Copper War).

[Pale Horse]

Also, on magickers in the milita: that's fairly far-fetched, as awesome as it could be. Would your average Zalanthan mob of Zalanthan commoners like to see their guys and gals in the black and green actively working with the cursed scum of the Known World? And the average recruit/private probably wouldn't be too fond of the idea, either!

Depends on said recruit/private's Superiors.  If they want magickers, then they'll have them, and the recruit/private had better shut up and soldier, or end up being put on point during the next dangerous mission.

[MarshallDFX]

OOC criticism is a necessary and important part of becoming a more mature and more contributing player. And when the solution to IC issues of all kinds often is to kill the offending party--well, I'd rather we discuss it OOCly first before I get PKed, or you do (that's general you), or someone else does. IC consequences are not and should not be the only means to learning and improving one's play.

Indeed, but OOC criticism should be done via the player request tool.

[Gimfalisette]

Indeed, but OOC criticism should be done via the player request tool.

Wrong. Specific OOC complaints should be made via the player request tool. General OOC criticism should be done on the GDB. There is a big difference there.

I don't use the complaint form unless something is horrendously, egregiously wrongly done. Which means I've used it...twice, ever. (Versus sending 80+ kudos.)

[Rhyden]

It's one thing to preach, it's another thing to practice.

Personally, I don't think this thread serves much purpose other than discouraging templars' behavior. There have been threads like this one in the past, and trust me, they don't change the views of players, and they don't solve these problems which seem to crop up every couple months.

These issues are dependent on IC situations. Some Templars will use gemmed more than others - don't worry about it, there are IC consequences. Gemmed are allowed to exist in Allanak for the Highlord's use (templars), so it shouldn't be any big surprise if they're forced into doing some work.

Bottom line, if you want a templar who puts gemmed in their place, app one. Don't come to the GDB and tell people how to run a certain guild if you can't and won't do it yourself.

[MarshallDFX]

Indeed, but OOC criticism should be done via the player request tool.

Wrong. Specific OOC complaints should be made via the player request tool. General OOC criticism should be done on the GDB. There is a big difference there.

I don't use the complaint form unless something is horrendously, egregiously wrongly done. Which means I've used it...twice, ever. (Versus sending 80+ kudos.)

Yes, but it often degenerates into the "I'd like to discourage" threads.  All to often the comments were just thinly veiled attacks on certain players.  Perhaps I'm just paranoid.

I'd like an example of a general OOC criticism.  Is this one?

[musashi]

Please remember to use mundanes and not just the magickers ... even though magickers can usually get your typical "go to X and bring me back Y" style mini-quests done a lot faster 

[Twilight]

Perhaps there have been gemmed in the AoD.

[lussien]

Ooooh, now I know why one of my PC always awoke feeling empty and bored in the barracks in the AoD.

True, there was one templar whom I started to love OOCly, he was an awesome person. Brought me around and did some sinister things, sadly my PC didn't get to be trained under him. I'm sure if my PC had stuck around with that templar PC, I would have a fun time. But right after that and the new Templar taking over, I found myself getting uber bored and tried to move my PC to another area and become an indie. Died most shamefully, with a soldier's heart.

I do realize that there's almost nothing to do in Allanak, except, salting, spicing, dunging or mining. During the times where I've played in Allanak, there's little to no plots where I could be sucked in, even if it was a minor confrontation. Yes, I agree in the few previous posts that those in the leadering role, should go out there and involve those who are directly underneath them.

Even if they state, the templarate, dont or rarely go out walking around in the common streets. That PC templar that I had RPed with didn't do that. He went out and was there, he interacted. I know it's the basis, but I do think it's okay to go against it, because hey, it's realism, everything is flexible and not fixed on stone. Spreading the fun will actually get more people to want more and so filling their fill of the game's already rich history and the way it was coded and made with every player's gaming pleasure in mind.

It's very difficult to find a game where the staff thinks about the player's gaming experience. <3 Armageddon.
By the way, I read about Arm 2.0. It's still in the making no? I hope it gets finished soon, I wanna try playing it

[Akoto]

Even if they state, the templarate, dont or rarely go out walking around in the common streets. That PC templar that I had RPed with didn't do that. He went out and was there, he interacted. I know it's the basis, but I do think it's okay to go against it, because hey, it's realism, everything is flexible and not fixed on stone. Spreading the fun will actually get more people to want more and so filling their fill of the game's already rich history and the way it was coded and made with every player's gaming pleasure in mind.

Hi,

Nothing in the documentation says that templars are unable to go out among the public. As the player of a templar for some time (and the one I suspect you were displeased with), I'm almost always out in the open. It's tough to do the job solely from within the Templar's Quarter.

I regularly run events which include other players. It's important for you to realize that, at least when you were with the faction, you were an off-peak player. Not all templars would be able to associate with you under those circumstances -- and of those who could, they may not want you in their company at all times. They have private things that they do, and to some extent, Sergeants are expected to lead in their absence. The AoD is not the Byn, in player population or leadership numbers, so there'll be times when you are admittedly on your own.

As for spreading the fun, leaders (and staff members, when applicable) generally aim to schedule events at times which are likely to include the most people. However, trying to schedule for all people is a futile task. You'll never do it, and you'll go nuts trying. It usually comes down to stating an hour and hoping that several folks can make it.

Allanak is hardly a dead location, particularly at this time. I'm aware of all manner of things going on, new figures in power, and several thriving factions. It's all in your pursuit of involvement. You, much like leaders, can't wait for it to come to you. Hope your experience improves in the future!

To address the ongoing discussion ...

There are times when using the Gemmed is necessary. It may be for reasons of efficiency, or because they can do something a soldier can't (a few such things do exist). This doesn't make them slaves, but rather, the same victims of His Templarate's demands as the next citizen. As well, I personally love to use the AoD whenever possible, and I have on both a regular basis and in several big RPTs. That said, we do so with care. Templars have superiors of their own, and they suffer serious consequences for screwing up in bad ways -- like getting a bunch of soldiers killed. As such, the safe method is sometimes the favored method.

[Ampere]

I agree with this thread's general sentiment.  It also acts as an excellent reminder to those it could prove useful.  Anyone in a position of power who relies too heavily on one crutch or another, is going to find themselves in a very precarious position.  Those who succeed, do so because they've diversified.  A lazy templar, is a dead templar.

[janeshephard]

Wait wait wait. How in the world are you supposed to buy a mercantile token if templars are supposed to be shut-ins? No wonder I never get around to getting the token. I never see a templar in Allanak when I play!

[lussien]

Oh no no, please don't feel like I was aiming at anyone specific but I think I remember, I think it was OOC that I was told templars don't go out into the streets or something, so that's what I kept for a very long time. But yes, I do agree the Sargeants and whoever that's of a higher ranking should take the initiative to lead, where I can say, in my own experience is none. My PC have never seen or been with or even done things with a high ranking official. Most highest were Privates, still because, I was an off-peaker. Woes of the off-peakers.

Don't worry though, I got through much experience being outside the confined stone walls, even if I had to go through many characters to explore the layout of the place and experience the dangers on my own, at the various different cities.

I think, it's just my opinion that new recruit PC should be allowed to go out, having them know all the risks by going outside than just staying in the walls just to train is really short changing the new PC. This mud is not like other muds, so I think we need to introduce the PC full force, rather than introduce and everything gets so slow that the new PC gets bored and goes on a suicide mission alone or never come back.

Maybe it's just the type of player I am. ^_^

[Cerelum]

Maybe recruiting could be limited to Vivaduans (and Rukkians?), who can provide useful support but not dominate outcomes. Again, permanently recruits.

I think you haven't seen a powerful viv or ruk.  I personally was omfg pwned by a viv one time on a very old ranger... Let's just say I never made any sprinkler jokes again.

[Akoto]

Wait wait wait. How in the world are you supposed to buy a mercantile token if templars are supposed to be shut-ins?

Templars aren't supposed to be shut-ins. They aren't. I'm not certain of where this idea came from, or how it entered into a discussion about the rights of the Gemmed. 

Mind that, at least in Allanak, two templars only recently came into play. If there's a time difference, catching the older third may have proven difficult. Use the Way, and look about! When a Templar settles down to hang out, there's a fair chance it won't be in a place like the Gaj.

[WWYD]

stuff

Can we keep how badass certain coded guilds may or may not become shhh, please? Leave some wonder for the newbies.

[janeshephard]

Wait wait wait. How in the world are you supposed to buy a mercantile token if templars are supposed to be shut-ins?

Templars aren't supposed to be shut-ins. They aren't. I'm not certain of where this idea came from, or how it entered into a discussion about the rights of the Gemmed. 

Mind that, at least in Allanak, two templars only recently came into play. If there's a time difference, catching the older third may have proven difficult. Use the Way, and look about! When a Templar settles down to hang out, there's a fair chance it won't be in a place like the Gaj.

The way appears to contact NPCs as well as PCs unless I'm mistaken. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

I'd much rather things like licenses and tokens are bought from NPCs but whatever. I'm sure this is in the game so we're somehow forced to interact.

[Akoto]

The way appears to contact NPCs as well as PCs unless I'm mistaken. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

I'd much rather things like licenses and tokens are bought from NPCs but whatever. I'm sure this is in the game so we're somehow forced to interact.

It's true that you can contact NPCs, but the PC is usually favored first when they're online (unless you're using the wrong name/sdesc). The most accurate method of reaching someone over the Way is to use their name. When you're looking to identify a leader for contacting purposes, try asking around among other players and/or reading through rumors on the IC boards.

[janeshephard]

The way appears to contact NPCs as well as PCs unless I'm mistaken. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

I'd much rather things like licenses and tokens are bought from NPCs but whatever. I'm sure this is in the game so we're somehow forced to interact.

It's true that you can contact NPCs, but the PC is usually favored first when they're online (unless you're using the wrong name/sdesc). The best method of reaching someone over the Way is to use their name. When you're looking to contact a leader, try asking around among other players and/or reading through rumors on the IC boards.

I understand and thanks. I just always felt randomly reaching out to a templar with your mind is poor RP. In fact I'm fairly certain it would be. These are the most feared on Zalanthas. I'd rather catch them at a good time

[Cerelum]

stuff

Can we keep how badass certain coded guilds may or may not become shhh, please? Leave some wonder for the newbies.

Fair enough, I just want to say that EVERY magicker guild is extremely dangerous, some just quicker than others, refer to the karma outline to see what I mean.

[Pale Horse]

stuff

Can we keep how badass certain coded guilds may or may not become shhh, please? Leave some wonder for the newbies.

Fair enough, I just want to say that EVERY magicker guild is extremely dangerous, some just quicker than others, refer to the karma outline to see what I mean.

They're gickers..what do you expect?  They eat babies and dance naked in the sand, covered in the entrails of their latest kills and sacrifices, to shrivel the manhood of your brother's wife's bestfriend's uncle.

..or was that Red Fangs?

[Salt Merchant]

-turned into a PM-

[Niamh]

If you have a problem OOCly with the way someone is playing a character, submit a complaint via the request tool.  Do not use the GDB as a passive aggressive method to critique people's roleplay.

With that being said, this thread has served its purpose, and is now locked.  Thank you, drive through.