You fall off your glossy, black-shelled inix...

[Morgenes]

Mail me a log (including timestamps please) of you moving about on your mounts where you are falling off your mount to the point of death.  Please try and include how many hands were free and what speed your mount was going and what the terrain was.

I'm more than willing to work on this, but I need to see the evidence that it's really bad for new riders.

[Synthesis]

You need to stop using made-up assumptions to back your own arguments. Dicussions do stay a lot more relevant when people stick to what is being said, rather than what would help their argument if it had been said and then pretending that it was.

I said it doesn't do much, and you still fall off plenty in any off-road terrain, whether it's these violently jagged rocks that people seem to think span the entire known world, or the flat dunes and plains that actually do make up the vast majority of Zalanthas.

Dude, you patently, obviously, prima facie have only the slightest clue about what you're talking about, or you're deliberately exaggerating to help plead your case.

When the code change went in, I was playing a non-ranger, non-mercenary with guild-maxed ride.  The day of, I fell off a lot.  I bug-repped it.  Morgenes changed the code.  After that, I fell off -once- while running through the most difficult terrain, while dual wielding (this is in 30 days' playing time after the code went in).

When that character died, I rolled another non-ranger, non-mercenary.  I paid someone to give me a single 'ride' lesson.  I don't know how much that helped, but after that I could walk down roads with my hands free and not fall off the mount.  Running down the road still caused the mount to swerve and resist.  So, I thought to myself, "I probably shouldn't try this in the desert, just yet."  So what did I do? I rode sprint laps around Allanak until I didn't fall off anymore.  It took me maybe 24-36 hours of play-time. 

Point me at any other mundane skill in the game that can go from n00b to usable in 24-36 hours.

[Lizzie]

Actually, I've seen one instance of someone else who was given -two- ride lessons by my character, who was a hands-free mount-taming rangerly uber-rider, fall off his mount more or less every 3rd room. With one empty hand, riding off-road, in the "walk" movement speed. He had plenty of riding experience, but either he was a special app and asked for his ride skill to max out at "total suck," or something was seriously wrong with his riding skill. He -should've- been able to at least 5-6 rooms on rough terrain by that point without falling off.

I, personally, haven't experienced much trouble since the change went into effect. However, I also have ensured that all my characters since then, had a guild/subguild that came with ride on the starting skills list. I can only attest to the fact that yes, some people really -do- fall off that often, under "normal" circumstances, even after two coded "teach" commands of the skill and several weeks worth of practical use of the skill.

[Synthesis]

Actually, I've seen one instance of someone else who was given -two- ride lessons by my character, who was a hands-free mount-taming rangerly uber-rider, fall off his mount more or less every 3rd room. With one empty hand, riding off-road, in the "walk" movement speed. He had plenty of riding experience, but either he was a special app and asked for his ride skill to max out at "total suck," or something was seriously wrong with his riding skill. He -should've- been able to at least 5-6 rooms on rough terrain by that point without falling off.

I, personally, haven't experienced much trouble since the change went into effect. However, I also have ensured that all my characters since then, had a guild/subguild that came with ride on the starting skills list. I can only attest to the fact that yes, some people really -do- fall off that often, under "normal" circumstances, even after two coded "teach" commands of the skill and several weeks worth of practical use of the skill.

Obviously he should've used two empty hands until he didn't fail at that anymore, then gone to riding with one empty hand.

[RogueGunslinger]

Hmmm.

MY opinion on this has changed. I like it ass is, but some little blurb in the docs about how riding can be dangerous in the wastes if you're unskilled would go a long way for newbies.

[Yam]

Riding is fucked up. I suck at riding horses but ride them a lot and I've only fallen off once.

[RogueGunslinger]

It'd be cool if there were a walk, run and trot for mounts. That would probably squash the problem. While walking it's impossible to fall off of a mount, but slower than walking for mounts is now. Trott would be between run and walk, Run would be as it is now. Add varying levels of success and failure to both for all sorts of things.

[Spoon]

There is already a run for mounts. I don't think there's any need for a slightly faster speed than walk, really.

From what I've seen if you're going over easy terrain there isn't much likelihood of falling off. There is a hell of a lot of rough terrain in this game, and this will most likely be where your PCs are falling off. By easy terrain I mean road, flats and plains. Anything with any rocks or dunes would be considered tricky.

[Malifaxis]

Riding is fucked up. I suck at riding horses but ride them a lot and I've only fallen off once.

Horses have traction-granting fur when ridden bareback, and the barrel-shape of the chest allows for an easy grip for the knees/legs.

Inix have huge fucking armored shells that's about the size of the roof of a volkswagen bug, and provides relatively little in the way of traction.

It would be nice to see saddles of a sort that grant a bonus to not falling off and breaking your hip.  This is the reason saddles were invented.

That, and, I suppose, not breaking your damn nuts on horse spine.

[Qzzrbl]

...Or you could just ride with empty hands and some riding gloves or something?

I've had a few characters since the changes to ride, and I've never had any one of them fall off more than five times until they got good enough to not fall off.

[HavokBlue]

I don't really understand the frequency by which new characters fall of mounts  at all. I took riding lessons when I was about 9 years old. By my third hour long lesson, I was jumping hurdles taller than I was. I've never once fallen off a horse.

When you consider that our characters probably rode mounts prior to us actually playing them, this just seems silly.

[Armaddict]

You have stirrups, which is kind of a big deal.

Then there's this whole thread.  Which is not a big deal.

[X-D]

I'm going to have to argue against mali on these points.

First, truly large animals, if ridden without any type of gear, would not be ridden using a part of the animal that is plainly silly.

You don't ride an elephant trying to straddle the barrel, you ride on the back of the neck. I'm betting an inix would work the same way, in fact, all of the drawings on the matter agree.

Same for giant bugs, your not going to straddle the thickest portion of the animal.

Also,  a horses hair actually makes it slicker. Most people in Zalanthas wear leather, go ahead and see what slides easier, leather on skin or leather on hair.

Oh, and when riding a horse bareback, the barrel shape actually makes it harder to hold on with your legs, which is why the best way to ride bareback is barefoot, so you can hook your feet behind the front legs at low speeds or at higher speeds actually pull them up into a more crouched position.

I agree with any posters that say falling off your mount after a few game hours of riding is stupid. It is. Also, as far as I know, the style mount has nothing to do with if you fall or not, so how does your arguement fit when your falling off something like a slow moving, barrel shaped and hairy ox? Or how about the two legged mounts?

BTW, I first started riding when I was about 6, it was 4 years before I used a saddle and stirrups and I never fell off. And believe me, a 6 year old on a draft horse is equal to an adult on an inix.

[Qzzrbl]

And believe me, a 6 year old on a draft horse is equal to an adult on an inix.

...Because a draft horse totally has a bigass shell on its back.

Not to mention, I don't imagine most pack animals of Zalanthas being very graceful.

Big clumsy beasts of burden ftw!

[X-D]

Of course you ignored the rest of the post.

And when was the last time you saw a clumsy animal that was not ill?

IRL all beasts of burden are agile, many are used for certain things just because they are agile and sure footed, one of the reasons oxen are used on the plow is that they are actually less likely to break a leg in a hole then some other animals, ever watched bull riding...yup, them some clumsy animals there...oh wait...maybe I'm getting the definition wrong, twirling and bucking and spinning 3,000+ lbs is not clumsy. Of course we can assume that on zalanthus the rules of evolution do not apply right?  Somehow clumsy animals manage to wurvive and flourish on rocky ground with holes all over...and all without having the ability to fight off predators.

[Qzzrbl]

For whatever god-awful reason, the GDB isn't letting me quote people. x-X

Erm, anyhow. Yeah....

I guess you got me there, X-D.

[Armaddict]

I'm glad you're such a good rider, X-D.  Your character isn't.

[X-D]

True enough...but not for the reasons you think.

[shadeoux]

Personally, one of my LONG lived clan mates, that regularly rides, uses several tools to assist in riding, but still falls off quite often compared to what I think he should be. He rides one handed, and can navigate easily upon roads, and usually doesn't have problems normally, until you reach harder terrain with bad weather conditions, then he does fall off, at least once, if not more at a walking pace. I would hate to be his class counting on his ability to ride to navigate properly as a leader position in bad weather and If it isn't paved or at least flat with no obstructions they are screwed I would think, at running speed.

[Armaddict]

Sounds to me like they should hire some help.

[Synthesis]

I can pretty much guarantee the PC described in that anecdote has shitty agility, and is not a ranger.  With good enough agility (easily within the human range, if you prioritize agility), you can ride with no hands using a certain item, and you'll almost never fall off, even running through very rough terrain.  This is without any ride-boosting class or subclass.

If you have shitty agility, you're going to suck at things that require agility...like riding.  Get over it.

[drunkendwarf]

I can pretty much guarantee the PC described in that anecdote has shitty agility, and is not a ranger.  With good enough agility (easily within the human range, if you prioritize agility), you can ride with no hands using a certain item, and you'll almost never fall off, even running through very rough terrain.  This is without any ride-boosting class or subclass.

If you have shitty agility, you're going to suck at things that require agility...like riding.  Get over it.

Yup, it's crap like this that made me realize how utterly and absolutely worthless the GDB is for anything other than checking staff announcements, which is what I'll go back to doing now.

Oh, and this gem:

Sounds to me like they should hire some help.

And you've completely missed the point of this entire post. Thank you for your insight.

The point they're trying to make is that it should not require this level of agility. When I think of high agility I think of Bruce Lee in a fight. When I think of high agility I think of Ashitaka slicing arrows from the sky. What I don't think of is the inability to ride a mount with nothing in either hand and still managing to fall off the thing, at a walking pace, when you lack "high" agility. It's completely ridiculous in a world where traveling atop a mount is, for the vast majority of people that do any traveling at all, the only way they can do it.

[Armaddict]

I can pretty much guarantee the PC described in that anecdote has shitty agility, and is not a ranger.  With good enough agility (easily within the human range, if you prioritize agility), you can ride with no hands using a certain item, and you'll almost never fall off, even running through very rough terrain.  This is without any ride-boosting class or subclass.

If you have shitty agility, you're going to suck at things that require agility...like riding.  Get over it.

Yup, it's crap like this that made me realize how utterly and absolutely worthless the GDB is for anything other than checking staff announcements, which is what I'll go back to doing now.

Oh, and this gem:

Sounds to me like they should hire some help.

And you've completely missed the point of this entire post. Thank you for your insight.

The point they're trying to make is that it should not require this level of agility. When I think of high agility I think of Bruce Lee in a fight. When I think of high agility I think of Ashitaka slicing arrows from the sky. What I don't think of is the inability to ride a mount with nothing in either hand and still managing to fall off the thing, at a walking pace, when you lack "high" agility. It's completely ridiculous in a world where traveling atop a mount is, for the vast majority of people that do any traveling at all, the only way they can do it.

When I think of flawless riding through a sandstorm on rough terrain, leading a group of other people through it, I think of Bruce Lee.  I mean Madmartigan.  I mean a ranger.  That's the one.

[drunkendwarf]

I never said anything about flawless and I never said anything about a sandstorm.
There's a huge difference between struggling to get your mount to move and flat out falling off of it.

[Synthesis]

How many times, and how many different ways do I have to say it?

If you are falling off your mount, you either suck at riding or your agility is crap (or possibly one other factor that I've never paid close enough attention to to speak about with authority).

The way the skill is coded right now is FINE.  I've had a warrior (with no ride-boosting subclass) who could ride everywhere dual wielding and only had maybe a 0.1% chance of falling off while running through rough terrain.  I've had a ranger who could ride perfectly.  I've had a magicker who could ride just FINE.

If you got a shitty roll, used agility as a dump-stat on your dwarf, or rolled a half-giant, it's not the code's fault.  The code is reflecting the fact that you're a clumsy (or skill-less) bastard who should stick to paved thoroughfares.   Perfect riding skill is not an inalienable right of all sentient humanoids.