You fall off your glossy, black-shelled inix...

[evil_erdlu]

When you fall, do not just hop back and proceed just to fall again. A single emote is enough time to regen the few HP lost because you're reclining when you fell and you're regenerating. Fall, emote "emote dazed, me struggles to regain his footing;feel stars". Then type stand and you'll have full health again.

That works fine if you fall once, twice a trip.  When nearly everyone in a large RPT party is taking a dozen tumbles each, it becomes cumbersome. And silly.

Then forgive me about my ranting without enough evidence.. I can see how bothersome it can be for clans that are forced inside the gates like Byn may face when they hit the road for the first time. I didn't think about it, but to my defence, I was sick yesterday night so my mind wasn't possibly very sharp.

[jmordetsky]

It's not that bad. If you are a ranger or a merchant you'll be past the cap in no time. Warriors etc, it is a bit harder for.

What would fix it all is to raise the riding cap a bit for non-ranger so that once you are pretty good at riding it doesn't happen anymore. Right now I have a pretty old warrior and it seems my riding is set (as in not going to get any better - though I could be wrong) and I still fall off every so often. I didn't mind the falling when I was first learning but it's a little irritating now. Adjusting the tops would remove this.

[Clearsighted]

find some riding gloves

[FantasyWriter]

And the little horse whippy thing.. can't remember what it's called.

[musashi]

A riding crop?

[Cutthroat]

A riding crop?

Code Select Expand

ass crop
A riding crop looks useful for mudsex.

But no, really, there are some items that could help with riding and those are definitely good too.

[FantasyWriter]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  Seen them IG, never used them.

[Riev]

I can honestly say that with my last longer-lived warrior, riding was absolutely not a problem. On occassion I would have to "urge" it forward, or it might refuse to move, but that was during a sandstorm on a non-road area.

Though, I never did get the hang of riding with two weapons out.

[Clearsighted]

I only wish spurs were available to more than just *cough cough spice jockeys cough cough*

[Salt Merchant]

...really? Shouldn't there be some point at which this doesn't happen? Shouldn't every guild every get a high enough ride to overcome this, at least while at a walking pace?
I've got a rather long lived character who spent nearly every waking moment atop a mount for at least 20 days play time...and yet it seems I can't navigate through the scrubs without flat out falling off my mount, while at a walking pace. Does anyone else find this to be a bit ridiculous?
Is ride a skill that can be bumped with some logs? Do I even need the logs at this point, given how many days play time my character has, and what his profession is? It would seem very strange for him to suddenly start "practicing his riding" after nearly 20 years in game.
Nevermind the fact that I've seen other people I know are the same guild as my character ride around with a weapon in each hand...that's probably another post.  

I think, like many things, it's influenced by wisdom.

Dumbasses don't make good riders.

[jmordetsky]

find some riding gloves

While I like the idea that in game items to boosts riding exist, one shouldn't need the magically, sparkly, riding gloves to avoid falling on a regular basis after years of training. Not sure what the coded solution, but eventually even warriors should stop falling off their mounts (regularly, under regular circumstances).

[jhunter]

Yeah, and regular circumstances for most Zalanthans is with at least one weapon, or shield in hand.

[Kryos]

I put a hearty agreement in for a much less frequent fall for characters of all guilds.  Running on your mount, trying to double wield and ride, that should cause you woe.  But moving at an steady(easy) pace should only cause you to fail in extremely rare circumstances.  After a lot of time riding, it just shouldn't happen unless you're dumb enough to ride up a steep slope or jagged terrain.

[Synthesis]

find some riding gloves

While I like the idea that in game items to boosts riding exist, one shouldn't need the magically, sparkly, riding gloves to avoid falling on a regular basis after years of training. Not sure what the coded solution, but eventually even warriors should stop falling off their mounts (regularly, under regular circumstances).

Warriors can ride just fine, once they get the skill up.  Hell, with riding gloves, I had a warrior who could ride just fine dual wielding, with no special race or subclass bonuses.

[Gunnerblaster]

Instead of losing the large amount of health we lose now - Why not swap the loss between health and stun?

"Oh, but what if I want to Way that special someone while riding, Gunner?"

Well, if you suck at riding - You should be concentrating on riding and not Waying that sexy [-insert sdesc here-] from the Bar.

Even while mounted, stun comes back at a reasonable rate while health, unfortunately, does not. Either way, if you are forced to stop and let the rider rest, you'll have to sit there through half the sun-baked day if he's trying to regain a moderate amount of health. If it's stun, despite the weather, he'll still get it back after a few moments. If someone is -bent- on riding past their limits, despite the outcome, then they'll suffer being knocked out.

It's depressing to lose 8-10 health per fall, so if you fall half a dozen times, your practically half-dead. That just doesn't seem realistic. Half-conscious seems more plausible then half-dead, to a few falls.

[Good Gortok]

This whole feature makes no sense to me.

Before: terrible riders would have a hard time riding because the mount would refuse to move. This was mostly a nuisance if trying to ride with a group, but the only thing lost was a bit of time, and really it was quite easy to get to the point where refuses-to-move virtually never happened.

Now: terrible riders will literally die if they try to ride any kind of distance off-road. Bringing a poor rider along with your group is no longer a time-consuming nuisance, it is now flat out impossible as they will lose 10 health every step of the way. The only positive thing about it is that you can now ride on roads without ever failing, though this of course means that the rider will never get better in this way.

This feature does nothing but remove the ability for newer non-ranger characters to go anywhere off the few roads in the game world. The health loss is crippling. You cannot just nip three rooms off to the side and kill that tregil, because that's 5-10 health each step of the way and back. It doesn't help groups because the unskilled riders still can't come along as they will now die instead of merely slowing down the progression. It isn't realistic and it isn't good for playability.


A few details:

- Unless a new character is of the right guild or subguild, no amount of having free hands or slowing down will prevent you from falling off your mount literally every single room without exception in any kind of non-road terrain. The starting ride skill of such guilds as pickpockets, assassins and warriors is that low.

- Moderately skilled riders still fall off their mounts with some regularity. Highly skilled riders are not wholly exempt from this phenomenon either, and it may take literally maxed ride to avoid it altogether.

- The damage taken from falling off your mount is often equivalent to being solidly slashed on the head.

- Practicing riding is now a hundred times more troublesome as a) you do not fail on roads or in cities and b) instead of just stalling, you get injured and can't practice for very long or with any degree of safety.


Facts:

- Riding anything with a horizontal back and a saddle on reasonably level terrain is not difficult. People learn the basics in real life in a matter of days, and falling off a horse, camel or elephant is seriously uncommon unless riding at high speed.

- Falling off a walking animal is borderline impossible. Doing so every few steps is unheard of in the history of riding. Dunes and flat rock are not inherently more difficult to ride on than grass and soil.

- Falling off a horse/rhino/ostrich-sized animal would not consistently cause serious injury every time it happens.


Suggested changes:

- Inflict stun damage rather than health damage, and preferably less of it.

- Allow the code to discern between types of mounts/terrain. Falling off a war beetle onto sand would not be the same as falling off an inix onto jagged rocks.

- Do away with the feature and just give characters a bonus to ride if they are following a skilled rider. This is a common practice in real-life riding training. An animal will be more comfortable following another member of its own species that is being ridden by a skilled rider than if it is being ridden alone by an unskilled one.

- Do away with the feature.

[Synthesis]

Dude, it's not that bad.

You don't have to have "near maxed" ride to stop falling.  In fact, you can have a pretty lousy ride skill and not fall anymore at all, even in the roughest terrain, if you ride with both hands free.

Stop overreacting and practice the damn skill already.  Or hire a -real- rider (rangers only need apply) to teach your n00bz how to do it right.

[Cerelum]

Dude, it's not that bad.

You don't have to have "near maxed" ride to stop falling.  In fact, you can have a pretty lousy ride skill and not fall anymore at all, even in the roughest terrain, if you ride with both hands free.

Stop overreacting and practice the damn skill already.  Or hire a -real- rider (rangers only need apply) to teach your n00bz how to do it right.

Seconded, I've had guilds/races that don't even have the ride skill able to ride pretty safely after a few days played with normal trips out.

Just don't bitch if you're going across Rocky Barrens, which is just that, lots of rocks and shit you have to climb, and you fall off your inix.

[Good Gortok]

It is disproportionate to the old system when it comes to the general difficulty, so unless increased difficulty was part of the intended package then yeah, dude, it's that bad. At the time of the transition, I had a character whose ride skill was high enough to virtually never have their mount refuse to move. It would happen very rarely while riding armed in a sandstorm. After the change went in, that same character started falling off at least once in every trip of any considerable length. It happened twice in a row a couple of times. It wasn't a huge deal because it was fairly rare and because the character was capable enough that a loss of 10-20 health wouldn't leave him fucked.

My next character was a half-elf assassin out of Red Storm. The first ride up to Allanak left him at does-not-look-well after the seven-room ride from the RS gate to the pillar. After some eight days played with moderately frequent riding, he would still fall off enough that off-road riding was generally not viable unless I did it on my way home where I could recover safely.

A more recent character was a ranger. Rangers' starting ride skill is high enough that they used to not get refused at all. After the code that took into account weather and speed went in, they would only get refused in sandstorms or while running off-road. Starting out, this ranger was not able to consistently ride 10-20 rooms without falling off.

I don't know where you get your information, but a "pretty lousy ride skill" does not make you immune to falling off. Also, the starting ride skill of guilds not specifically known for riding is so low that they will fall off every room until the skill has been trained. You can be exhausted and dying of thirst 10 rooms out in the desert and have a mount dropped on you, and you won't be able to ride back because the 10x health loss might kill you. I'm not exaggerating - an out of the box human pickpocket cannot ride off-road without falling off. I tested it. 15 rooms, fell off 15 times.

Seconded, I've had guilds/races that don't even have the ride skill able to ride pretty safely after a few days played with normal trips out.

And I've had the opposite - a character of a race specifically documented as being good riders who after a reasonable amount of time would still fall off with some regularity.

Just don't bitch if you're going across Rocky Barrens, which is just that, lots of rocks and shit you have to climb, and you fall off your inix.

I never mentioned any specific terrain, nor does the code do much to discern between it. You fall off plenty on gentle dunes or salt flats, and you take the same amount of damage regardless of where you are. I do appreciate your WoW-forum-esque manner of discussion, though.

[X-D]

I FAR prefer this system.

Yes, there are some things I find slightly annoying, but I usually play races with lower wis scores. And on the old system you could have a low wis PC who, after20 days play and at least 1.5 hours ride training for each day played, Yes, 30 hours riding STILL would get "refuses to move" 40% of the time. I had a HG with good wis and after 23 days played the fact that he would still fail 25% of the time was about 25% of the reason I stored him.

And the old way was FAR more then a miner annoyance in groups if you played a leader PC, which I have many times...twitch.

Stop ordering your Wis last or pick the right guild or sub.

[Good Gortok]

I FAR prefer this system.

You said the exact opposite on page 2.

[Cerelum]

It is disproportionate to the old system when it comes to the general difficulty, so unless increased difficulty was part of the intended package then yeah, dude, it's that bad. At the time of the transition, I had a character whose ride skill was high enough to virtually never have their mount refuse to move. It would happen very rarely while riding armed in a sandstorm. After the change went in, that same character started falling off at least once in every trip of any considerable length. It happened twice in a row a couple of times. It wasn't a huge deal because it was fairly rare and because the character was capable enough that a loss of 10-20 health wouldn't leave him fucked.

My next character was a half-elf assassin out of Red Storm. The first ride up to Allanak left him at does-not-look-well after the seven-room ride from the RS gate to the pillar. After some eight days played with moderately frequent riding, he would still fall off enough that off-road riding was generally not viable unless I did it on my way home where I could recover safely.

A more recent character was a ranger. Rangers' starting ride skill is high enough that they used to not get refused at all. After the code that took into account weather and speed went in, they would only get refused in sandstorms or while running off-road. Starting out, this ranger was not able to consistently ride 10-20 rooms without falling off.

I don't know where you get your information, but a "pretty lousy ride skill" does not make you immune to falling off. Also, the starting ride skill of guilds not specifically known for riding is so low that they will fall off every room until the skill has been trained. You can be exhausted and dying of thirst 10 rooms out in the desert and have a mount dropped on you, and you won't be able to ride back because the 10x health loss might kill you. I'm not exaggerating - an out of the box human pickpocket cannot ride off-road without falling off. I tested it. 15 rooms, fell off 15 times.

Seconded, I've had guilds/races that don't even have the ride skill able to ride pretty safely after a few days played with normal trips out.

And I've had the opposite - a character of a race specifically documented as being good riders who after a reasonable amount of time would still fall off with some regularity.

Just don't bitch if you're going across Rocky Barrens, which is just that, lots of rocks and shit you have to climb, and you fall off your inix.

I never mentioned any specific terrain, nor does the code do much to discern between it. You fall off plenty on gentle dunes or salt flats. I do appreciate your WoW-forum-esque manner of discussion, though.

I think you're relatively unexperienced in this area of code, because where you ride definately DOES have a HUGE effect on how good you ride.  I'm sorry if you don't like the blunt way I answered you.

[Good Gortok]

You need to stop using made-up assumptions to back your own arguments. Dicussions do stay a lot more relevant when people stick to what is being said, rather than what would help their argument if it had been said and then pretending that it was.

I said it doesn't do much, and you still fall off plenty in any off-road terrain, whether it's these violently jagged rocks that people seem to think span the entire known world, or the flat dunes and plains that actually do make up the vast majority of Zalanthas.

[X-D]

Quote
I FAR prefer this system.

You said the exact opposite on page 2.

Actually, No, I was agreeing with the sentiment of things being added for annoyance purposes instead of actual game improvement.

In the case of the ride change, I do think the falling off mount needs massive tweeking, as I have stated before. drastically reduced chances of it happening even at low levels and a large increase to damage.

[Good Gortok]

In my opinion, this one qualifies as that kind of thing. There's even two threads about it on the front page. I'm still waiting for anyone to justify the feature, both from a realism and playability point of view. The early game hindrance is too big, and the late game factor is barely there anyway as long-lived riders have never been affected much by riding failure.