Skill Idea

[Synthesis]

How about a 'conceal' skill that branches from 'hide' for sneaky/ranger types?

The skill would allow you to either sit or rest while maintaining a degree of hiddenness.

Couple of thoughts: 1) The skill obviously wouldn't hide you as well as a normal 'hide' would (vs. scan); 2) Perhaps the delay could be longer, or there could be a visible concealment message, to prevent people from 'concealing' themselves in a tavern or some other such unlikely place.

I think it's kind of silly that sneaky types can be stealthy when moving around, etc. then when it comes to being -stationary- (resting), all of a sudden they have to be wide out in the open.

Basically, the RP behind it would be say...a ranger lying down under a bush and relaxing for a few...or a burglar lying flat on a rooftop to rest a bit after a difficult climb.  The skill wouldn't be good enough to prevent an active, capable searcher from finding you (weak vs. scan), but it would allow you to remain unseen while resting.

In fact, if possible, it would be neat to have someone in a 'conceal'ed state only recover stamina and stun points.  Since when recovering hit points (at least from a drastic loss), you're realistically expected to be taking minor measures to promote healing (unless Zalanthans really are all trollkin and just regenerate...).  This little feature would also be useful to prevent ding-dongs from simply 'conceal'ing themselves, resting back to full health in complete safety from an NPC hunting them, and then resuming the fight.

Ah, another nifty thing a 'conceal' skill would do:  it would allow rangers to actually go out into the boonies without a kank.  Since they could recover stamina and stun while 'conceal'ed, they wouldn't have to worry about getting caught wide out in the open while completely exhausted.  Or in a burglar/spy type situation, it would allow the spy to maintain contact via the Way while staying relatively hidden and motionless.

Obviously, there would be places (especially in the city) where 'conceal'ing oneself would be silly...in a crowded tavern or in a small room, for example.  In fact, I'd consider it fair to go only with a wilderness version of the skill, since there really aren't too many wilderness places where a skilled ranger couldn't 'conceal' himself and rest.  All in all though, I think players of city-sneaky-types could be trusted not to abuse the skill.  And like I said earlier, if the skill was coded with a room echo..."The figure in a dark, hooded cloak attempts to conceal himself." Then other players in the room could simply wish up and/or report the abuse by e-mail.  (Obviously, this wouldn't work if some idiot concealed himself while no-one was in the tavern, and then waited around for people to show up.)

Ooh, which brings me to a solution for that problem, at least within taverns.  Bartender NPCs could be coded to 'smack' people attempting 'conceal' within the tavern's main room, in much the same way several shopkeepers will smack you if you try to attempt a steal in their shop.

[musashi]

I was having this idea today myself and did a search before making a post of my own. I just want to +1 this, except that I would argue that hiding while resting (ie not moving at all) should give you a bonus to your concealment, not a penalty.

My reasoning comes from the cover and concealment training I had to take while in the service. It was more difficult to spot people who were laying prone under cover than it was to spot people who were upright and moving around, I actually think it's common sense really, and I feel like the code in place already would represent it quite well.

For example, a ranger hiding while resting would be better concealed than if he were standing up, and less likely to be noticed, but the drawbacks are obvious. One, he can't move at all without standing up first (and breaking his hide obviously) so he isn't in a position to ambush anyone, and if someone did see him despite his concealment attempts, he's laying prone and at an obvious disadvantage.

I don't see this as something that would be abused, but rather ... as was said in the post above, give rangers who aren't d-elves a viable option for travelling on foot. I'm sure it would benefit city sneaks as well, just ... having never played one I couldn't really make an informed comment about them.

[SMuz]

I'd rather it be built into the existing hide code, using the same skill and skill checks, rather than as a different skill. Just simply sit/rest not breaking hide. Or you could have the conceal thing if you really want, but using the same 'hide' skill.

[musashi]

I'd rather it be built into the existing hide code, using the same skill and skill checks, rather than as a different skill. Just simply sit/rest not breaking hide. Or you could have the conceal thing if you really want, but using the same 'hide' skill.

For me, ideally, I would like to have it use the hide skill as well without a new skill, but I think that sitting/resting/standing should break your hide. So if you want your ranger to rest up under some concealment. Just type rest first, before you type hide, and understand that standing up is going to break it.

[Majikal]

I would like to have it use the hide skill as well without a new skill, but I think that sitting/resting/standing should break your hide. So if you want your ranger to rest up under some concealment. Just type rest first, before you type hide, and understand that standing up is going to break it.

This, 100%

[Thunkkin]

I like.

[Ampere]

[Agent_137]

Ah, another nifty thing a 'conceal' skill would do:  it would allow rangers to actually go out into the boonies without a kank.  Since they could recover stamina and stun while 'conceal'ed, they wouldn't have to worry about getting caught wide out in the open while completely exhausted.

this is key. rangers want to range. mounts should be required for fast travel, not absolfuckinglutely required for any trip like they are now.

[Synthesis]

The way hide currently works in the game, you might as well just give all rogues and rangers the invisibility spell while you're at it.  A change like this would increase the relative value of the hide skill enormously, without any balancing factor. The only way I'd support it is if sit+hide and rest+hide were so shitty that -anyone- who bothered to scan could spot you, regardless of their scan skill. 

No stamina recovery while standing or riding, unless it were so low as to be negligible...in which case, what's the point of adding it?

I've since amended my opinion.

P.S. Nice necro!

[brytta.leofa]

Well, I agree more with the old you.

[Sephiroto]

Major props for proposing the idea.  I'm getting ideas of a hunter laying on the ground in a Zalanthan-style ghillie suit or laying low in a ditch to avoid detection while watching a tandu or catching his breath.  Perhaps we can have cloaks or spreads in the game that assist or are a requirement in the use of this skill.

As for the skill itself, I agree with what is being proposed on the grounds that you sit/rest first then hide.  You know...to prep to rest then situate yourself perfectly as not to be seen.  Othewise, any transition from a regular hide to a "concealed" or resting hide should require a sneak skill check to see if anyone notices the movement from the standing/crouching position of a normal hide to the sitting/prone position of the concealed version.    Persons with no sneak or low sneaking skill might be seen or heard, as opposed to those who have a high sneak skill.  I also think it would be cool to sip from containers and taste food, but not eat or drink normally, while in this position without room echoes.

To offset the awesomeness of being in such a well-hidden position with the ability to rest I think we should consider severely limiting the ability to scan (even more than normal resting) and put a major negative on defense while in this position to reflect the drop of guard in the attempt to remain unseen and quiet.  Any action besides sipping from a waterskin or tasting a travel cake, for example,  should break the concealment with the exception of palming items and, of course other sneaky actions.  Also, we might consider stamina regeneration to be only a fraction of, variable depending on level of skill and the use of tools to assit with the concealiment, what one would expect to recover while resting normally due to the strain on remaining hiden.

[Synthesis]

Well, I agree more with the old you.

The only thing I amended was a negative modifier to hide in the resting state, which I don't think is entirely  unreasonable.

Well, that, and the observation that it would make hide much more useful, which I think is perfectly reasonable as well.

[Dalmeth]

Here's a new twist to the idea :

Instead of just making it a generic skill, let's expand on it.  The city version is called disguise and the wilderness version is conceal.  Using it like Synthesis first mentioned works much as he imagined.  However, you get options on how you want to conceal yourself based on what items and equipment your character has.  For instance, a ranger using it in the desert with camo and nothing else would get two options : one, hide in a trench, or two, sprawl out on the ground.   Instead of seeing a, "strange shadow," you would see, "X is crouched in a small ditch," and on the second option, the one I would call the, "ghillie suit option," would require higher skill and would take some bonuses from your equipment.  Eventually, you'd be able to construct things like blinds in vegetated areas and small, hiding tents that would grant you some shelter if you bring the equipment, which would constitute a burden.  Disguise would have a similar system, with people disguising themselves as diseased beggars, a pile of rags, lying flat against the wall, or just crouching in the shadows.

As for the small details, eating and drinking should be just fine in most modes, but getting should be something that would rely on skill and the level of concealment.  Naturally, a little bit of crafting would be involved.