Me, Ginka, Karma, and Existentialism

Started by Kevo, November 09, 2009, 07:35:06 PM

....seriously, guys?


Wow, see, this is why I rarely post. There are some great, awesome points in here. Let me simplify my original post, and add a few points for clarification:


Sometimes, I worry people, staff, and players included, may think I'm not roleplaying my char the way I should. However, I know I am, because I know my char. So, I'm gonna stop worrying about it, and have more fun.

I, myself, do not generally make rash decisions, and my role-playing style is oriented towards the fantastical. This is why I enjoy playing chars who have some sort of fantasy bent, and sometimes make rash decisions.

Due to recent events IG, I've had an insight. I'm gonna stop worrying about it. If I play my chars the way I think I should play them, and someone, anyone, does not perceive I'm doing it 'correctly', staff will either tell me, or the player can get over it. I'm not upset that, after nine years, staff has less trust in me, than some who have played only three, (as evidenced by karma) because, as I said in my first post, this is due to losing old accounts.

In conclusion....so what. I like what I play, I have fun when I play, my chars may die, and that's pretty fun too. My post was a microcosm of my real life, as well as my IG life. I am wanting what I have, and not longer wanting what I don't. If I get karma, yay! If I don't, I've still yet to try and see how an autistic child, an idiot savant, a sociopathic lesbian dwarf, or an honest elf, so I've still got plenty of things to try, even the end of arm 1 may be coming sooner than the ability to play more classes will.

Oh well. Seriously guys, quit focusing on the karma part.

Now, I would like to add, thank you for your insightful advice, most of you. And thank for all of your perceptions about half-giants. I personally think some (keyword SOME) would talk like very young children, because even children know, people like you better when you're cute. :)

FuSoYa, you said it best when you said, 'Jump into the game world, and have a kick ass time.'

Gimf, I feel as if you're speaking to someone else. I have tons and tons of IC tics. In my younger days, I would actually do rash, OOC things, like steal something that was only reloaded after a crash, and players were waiting on staff to remove them. The one time I did this, though, I wished all, and pretty much explained what I did. I got a slap on the wrist, and a thank you for being honest. Just doing something that pointless and OOC driven ruined most of the game experience. I DO want karma, because that expands my options. I do NOT want to play my chars in a way that -I- think is unrealistic of them, and oocly driven just for the desire of karma. If I did that, and I got karma, it would just validate my fears that the only way to achieve trust with the staff, would be to roleplay badly, and have entirely ooc goals.

LOD My god, do you analyze your mother with that mouth? I spent like, maybe a good hour writing that post, because, more than anything, I wanted it to be amusing, with a dash of insight, and a hint of awww. But strangely, these qualities, rushed, angst-ridden, dramatic, hypersensitive, frenzied, and swift to action ARE most of my chars, but there is a big difference between my RP, and my Char. I put a shit ton of thought into what a girl with Pervasive Development Disorder would do if she were suddenly found completely alone, and weighed that against zalanthan culture, before I determined the correct approach to the situation, or what a young man with split personalities, a penchant for murder, and a cool ass half-mask would do if he had no friends, responsibilities, a shit ton of coin, and an apartment in the bardic circle would do, THEN I go out, and roleplay what those angst-ridden dramatic, hypersensitive people would do. It seems like all this confusion is led about by the assumption that I am roleplaying things, that my get my char killed, because I am rash. Quite the opposite, I play chars who are rash, and when I think 'Dammit, this chars started down a path that's gonna get him killed,' I do not use unrealistic excuses, and ooc motivation to drive them away from it. I once wanted nothing more to explore what all spells and abilities a special app would end up having if they lived long enough. However, SHE wanted to jump off the shield wall, and cry while trying to regain some semblance of her former nomadic life with her mother. I knew better, chances are, she'd die. She didn't know better, chances were to her, she'd end up the leader of a magickal mercenary guild, and finally win over that bastards heart. And it was fun, and I rp'ed it well, and she died, so 'screw it'.
(I backed up to add, THIS is my angst-ridden, hypersensitive writing style)

Gah, I apologize, LOD, thank you, I know you were trying to offer me help in my 'quest to get karma', but frankly, that's not my quest. I know you trying to offer sound advice based on your opinion of how I play, but you don't know how I play, you just know my GDB handle, and my posts. You do have some good advice, but it's not for me. I am upset that many of my chars die, but only because I'm attached to them, and it hurts, not because I feel I've been slighted. I am okay with people not realizing that I'm a badass roleplayer, who thinks out (usually to the detriment of my job, social, and sleep life) what my chars would realistically do next, because, even though some of those players get to decide what, or who I can play, if they were really, really interested, they'd stick around and watch, and if they don't, it's probably because something cooler is happening elsewhere, or some work needs to be done.

Fin.



And you know what, for all of you who actually ARE bitching about karma, and special apps, and using my post as a platform to do it. Get over, take LOD's or Gimf's advice, and mine, when I say, stop bitching on the GDB and email you're fucking volunteer staff, and ask them politely, What am I doing that is wrong, or untrustworthy?

remember, I said politely, which means you have to actually assume they know better than you do.
Quote from: Scarecrow on February 21, 2014, 04:45:46 PMIn Zalanthas, people don't dig graves with shovels, they dig them with their own tongues.

Asking politely works, that's how I got my karma #3 and karma #5  :)

Also, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to special app  all the character ideas that come through your mind and on the spot, aren't we still just allowed to three special apps per year, denied or not?

I'm obviously quite out of the loop, so maybe that has changed..
"When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse's feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back."

Quote from: Kevo on November 11, 2009, 04:24:29 PM
Gimf, I feel as if you're speaking to someone else. I have tons and tons of IC tics.

I was not talking about IC tics, I was talking about OOC ones--your tics, as a player. As LoD mentioned, you seem frenzied and angst-ridden and like your PCs don't live very long. If every one of your PCs is also frenzied and angst-ridden and doesn't live very long, then you probably are not developing the characteristics as a player that would lead to more trust from the imms, and thus more karma.

The discussion that has happened is part of your general topic of karma and wanting it. It's not really an occasion for "seriously, guys?"

Having more fun is great advice, but sometimes players also want karma, and as I said before...there's nothing wrong with that. And, there is nothing wrong with objectively evaluating one's play and figuring out where and how to improve...even if one of one's goals is to gain karma.
Quote from: Vanth on February 13, 2008, 05:27:50 PM
I'm gonna go all Gimfalisette on you guys and lay down some numbers.

November 11, 2009, 04:42:50 PM #53 Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 01:11:39 PM by RogueGunslinger
This post was a thinly veiled attack, and is now deleted.

Quote from: Rhyden on November 11, 2009, 04:07:59 PM
Meh.

Karma isn't all it's cracked up to be.

I've never submitted a special app that wasn't for a leader position.

Despite this, almost every one of my "karma" characters have either ended quickly or terribly.

Mundanes ftw.

Mine too, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to tinker with them.

Just like I know I would crash a Racecar, doesn't mean I still don't want one.

November 11, 2009, 04:55:32 PM #55 Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 04:57:05 PM by Aaron Goulet
Quote from: Malken on November 11, 2009, 04:33:17 PM
Asking politely works, that's how I got my karma #3 and karma #5  :)

Also, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to special app  all the character ideas that come through your mind and on the spot, aren't we still just allowed to three special apps per year, denied or not?

I'm obviously quite out of the loop, so maybe that has changed..

How does one go about asking?  Asking is new to me (we didn't do it that way back in the day), but I'm... Uh... Very close, karma-wise (unless I've lost some for whatever reason), to being able to play something I really want to play, and special applications scare me, unless it's for a leadership role.
Quote from: ZoltanWhen in doubt, play dangerous, awkward or intense situations to the hilt, every time.

The Official GDB Hate Cycle

Email your current or most recent clan staff and ask politely for a karma review, pointing out what you think you've done to show you're trustworthy enough for X karma. They will email you back and let you know what they think.
Quote from: Vanth on February 13, 2008, 05:27:50 PM
I'm gonna go all Gimfalisette on you guys and lay down some numbers.

Quote from: Gimfalisette on November 11, 2009, 04:42:17 PM
Quote from: Kevo on November 11, 2009, 04:24:29 PM
Gimf, I feel as if you're speaking to someone else. I have tons and tons of IC tics.

I was not talking about IC tics, I was talking about OOC ones--your tics, as a player. As LoD mentioned, you seem frenzied and angst-ridden and like your PCs don't live very long. If every one of your PCs is also frenzied and angst-ridden and doesn't live very long, then you probably are not developing the characteristics as a player that would lead to more trust from the imms, and thus more karma.

The discussion that has happened is part of your general topic of karma and wanting it. It's not really an occasion for "seriously, guys?"

Having more fun is great advice, but sometimes players also want karma, and as I said before...there's nothing wrong with that. And, there is nothing wrong with objectively evaluating one's play and figuring out where and how to improve...even if one of one's goals is to gain karma.

lol. Okay, I guess I can see your point. I may seem angst-ridden, and frenzied, and that my pc's don't live very long. They don't, and I'm not, in fact, the entire point of the post was to express my -lack- of angst, I am Not worried about it. I do care, but I'm just not worried.

The discussion seems to have taken a tangent, and run wildly with it. This is why I was wondering if you guys were serious. I don't see how I seemed angst-ridden, or frenzied, or hypersensitive, in my original post. Dramatic, maybe, but I was trying to be pointedly overdramatic, I mean, a Fountain reference, a comparison to my RL marriage, it was supposed to be funny. But, like I also pointed out in my post, no one really gets my sense of humor.

Anyhow, keep posting about how I need to change possible IC tics, and ways to get special apps approved, and how to better improve your play, this has to be helping -someone-, I appreciate the info, and advice, and I boldly disagree. Any investigation into my char history would reveal this is not true (my chars are vastly different, in concept, and personality, and decision-making process), so, it's not worth worrying about, huh? I hope there's no hard feelings, and I hope this doesn't seem angsty, dramatic.



And Aaron, honestly, I think asking for the app first, then asking for the karma to keep playing that 'something' afterward would be best. Then, they say, give a you chance, and evaluate you based on that. Just a guess though. Or what Gimf said.
Quote from: Scarecrow on February 21, 2014, 04:45:46 PMIn Zalanthas, people don't dig graves with shovels, they dig them with their own tongues.

Quote from: RogueGunslinger on November 11, 2009, 04:42:50 PM
Hmm, those were fun to waste. Maybe my next one I can learn some other bit of useful, obscure information to help get me through the app process, and then next year I'll get a whole three new tries to test my skills.  ::)

If it's any consolation, this happens to all of us. I've only had one successful special app, which I ended up relinquishing before even playing. Every other one has been turned down for policy reasons which often seem contradictory to me. Oh well! There are plenty of non-special-app roles to play.

You guys are misreading him... and he comes off horribly through text.

Quote from: Kevo on November 09, 2009, 07:35:06 PM
I have truly spent more than half my life playing this game,
Quote
For almost a decade, I've been wanting more karma, so I could play roles (classes, because, frankly, that's what they are) that I was interested in when others grew monotonous or tedious, and I always wondered what the problem was.
Quote
Was I not roleplaying well enough for the staff?
Quote
None of this was truly a really big matter until, Arm 2 was announced.
Quote
I have truly spent more than half my life playing this game...And now, she's going to be gone.
Quote
As far as Karma goes, ginka, if in the end, you still don't truly, fully trust me.....it's okay, I still trust you.
Quote
Arm 1, ginka......Zalanthas as I know it, even though you never fully trusted me, and we never did everything we could together, I will always hold you in my heart, and your world will continue on in my imagination. Since we only have a short time left, I vow to take risks with you I was afraid to before, I vow to make each second count as much as I can, and I promise, that I will never, ever forget the time we spent together.

His post wasn't about wanting karma. It was about feeling like he's spent more than half his life playing Arm (which is actually him playing 11 years, not 9), and it's going to end before he ever gets a chance to fully explore something he put so much time into. While he was previously in a position where he felt slighted and/or misunderstood or looked over even, due to his lack of acknowledged knowledge of the game world and adherence to it, especially after the Arm2 announcement, he's past that. He's realized that in the end it's not about getting to explore every avenue or having some outside faction believe that you know the gameworld well enough to melt brainz, it's about how much fun you have while playing.

Also, post +1. Heh.
Quote from: Wug
No one on staff is just waiting for the opportunity to get revenge on someone who killed one of their characters years ago.

Except me. I remember every death. And I am coming for you bastards.

Quote from: Aaron Goulet on November 11, 2009, 04:55:32 PM
How does one go about asking?  Asking is new to me (we didn't do it that way back in the day), but I'm... Uh... Very close, karma-wise (unless I've lost some for whatever reason), to being able to play something I really want to play, and special applications scare me, unless it's for a leadership role.

Well, after I played Chaska the Jul Tavan, I asked nicely in an email if I could have a karma bump, because it had been a long while since I last received karma, and I felt that I put everything I was capable of, roleplay-wise, in that character,
so in my mind, if that wasn't improvement over my last years on Arm, then I don't know what I could do better.. And they agreed, so I got karma #3..

For karma #4, I special app'ed a whiran, and I played him for a while, and I think Staff instead of taking away the option to play a Whiran, they just gave me karma #4 (I think the reason was something like ..Did well with Chaska and show
that he can be trusted with karma 4 classes.. Bump to karma 4)

Karma #5, I special app'ed for a shadow cleric (meh, I already forgot how they are called..) and I played him for a few months, then I sent in an email and I told them that I really enjoyed the class and since it had been a while and I hadn't
received any bad notes in a long while, if they could let me have karma #5, since I was planning on playing those classes again, but I wanted to also be able to save my special applications for higher karma-required classes, before the end, and
again, they were nice enough to bump me to #5.

The end.
"When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse's feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back."

You pretty much got the meat and potatoes of it, baby. Thank you for understanding me. For this, I promise not to reveal your alternate GDB ego.
Quote from: Scarecrow on February 21, 2014, 04:45:46 PMIn Zalanthas, people don't dig graves with shovels, they dig them with their own tongues.

Quote from: Kevo on November 11, 2009, 11:55:39 PM
You pretty much got the meat and potatoes of it, baby. Thank you for understanding me. For this, I promise not to reveal your alternate GDB ego.

sorry that you feel that we don't get you.  If you post more often, i'll work harder to understand your posts.

I didn't want to take your post and use it as a soapbox, but I couldn't resist doing so because your post was so awesome.

Quote from: LoD on November 10, 2009, 04:06:59 PM
Issues abound with a solution to this "problem".


  • Not all players want/require Immteraction.
  • Some players want/require more Immteraction than others to feel "included".
  • Some players, due to a string of high-profile characters, get used to heavy Immteraction and come to expect it, and can sometimes feel purposefully ignored when the level of interaction decreases.
  • Some players view Immteraction as "interference", where others view it as "attention".
  • Some players are reactive, and more likely to feed off Immteraction compared to the more pro-active players.
  • Some players receive Immteraction with results they might view as negative (i.e. they are executed, refused a promotion, demoted, ordered to perform an action they dislike, not provided with the answer they wanted, etc...) and feel that they are being unfairly targeted, or that Imms are "out to get them".

Creating a system that touches all of these players in the way and manner in which they wish to be treated and touched is likely an impossible task, especially with the Storyteller (most likely staff member to be interacting with you) and Player ratio.

What suggestions do people have for how to solve these many issues in a way that isn't currently being attempted?

-LoD

Thank you for asking.  Obviously, we want to make the most-effective use of existing staff to better distribute attention that individual players receive. 

In the past, I've proposed an expansion of the helper system.  I would rather than people who are playing as helpers take on an expanded role, moving from being more than a "reference desk" similar to what you'd find in a library to a "senior player."  I'd like to see helpers take on a large role in player advocacy.  So many times I've seen players get a raw deal when they deserved much better, but I've seen them slip through the cracks because staff do not have the resources to serve as the ultimate arbiters of justice on every little issue. 

Being realistic, staff do not have twenty minutes to spend on every player request.  Average time per request is probably something like nine minutes.  That means, for many requests they have to make a snap decision whether or not to help, and in most cases this will be the result of a gut level decision.

Unfortunately, gut decisions do not really encourage any sort of quality control, with the result that important players with genuine needs get short changed, not as a result of anyone being insensitive or a dickhead, but for the reason that staff is really busy.

IMHO, this is where the helpers come in.  I think that helpers should be willing to spend the time with troubled players, and help players to prioritize their requests for staff help.  Some players expect too much personalized attention from staff, and should be brought around to the fact that they should not, under any circumstances, expect much more than about 40 minutes of staff interaction per month.

In other cases, you see a player being unfairly punished, or struggling with basic communication problems, or not receiving the rewards and recognition they deserve.  In any bureaucracy, the squeaky wheel gets the grease but we have few people on hand to stick up for the quietest, hardest-working, most consistent workers. 

I'd like to see helpers work as advocates to assist with players when they're having a hard time.  I think that staff should "train the trainers" to make sure that players are able to get the most out of helpers. 

I think that's asking an awful lot of helpers.
You give your towering mound of dung to the inordinately young-spirited Shalooonsh.
the inordinately young-spirited Shalooonsh sends:
     "dude, how'd you know I was hungry and horny?"

I'd have to agree, while it sounds promising, and profitable, I can imagine it'd be a lot of extra work.

Every time I've ever met a inept newbie, I've given them a little tour of the game. When I met an obvious newbie, I'll sometime OOC to ask if they need any help. If not, well, good for them, if they do, then I try and help out.

I think that's really all that helpers can do, and if everyone could do this, (I believe there's a good quantity of players that do) then this kind of attention wouldn't even be necessary.
Quote from: Scarecrow on February 21, 2014, 04:45:46 PMIn Zalanthas, people don't dig graves with shovels, they dig them with their own tongues.

Quote from: ibusoeSome players expect too much personalized attention from staff, and should be brought around to the fact that they should not, under any circumstances, expect much more than about 40 minutes of staff interaction per month.
That seems to be a lot of immteraction. If you require that much minutes of staff's time per month, you either -really- want immteraction or you're probably in some sort of fancy high up role.

Quote from: ibuesoeIn other cases, you see a player being unfairly punished, or struggling with basic communication problems, or not receiving the rewards and recognition they deserve.  In any bureaucracy, the squeaky wheel gets the grease but we have few people on hand to stick up for the quietest, hardest-working, most consistent workers.  

Agreed. It would be nice to have some sort of formal helper method to help out players who obviously don't know the code, or are struggling with english, or capitalization, spelling, etc. The problem is, you can't really do this with a player account as it would seem "elitist". I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure staff help out newer players already. If not, it would be nice to have some sort of helper channel or way to have anonymous senior players ig to offer a helping hand. Olgaris is right though, it is asking much. I could see it being somewhat hectic for helpers, but honestly, if it takes any load off the staff, I'm all for it.

Quote from: Olgaris on November 18, 2009, 12:51:33 PM
I think that's asking an awful lot of helpers.

True, but the staff are already burdened.  Some issues are slipping through the cracks.  Who better to tackle the problem?  Helpers are chosen because they are knowledgeable and responsible. 

Helpers are already helpful. They're already doing their job, which isn't even a job. Putting more on their plate means that much less time they're available to roleplay. Personally I'd rather see all these awesome helpers in the game, playing their characters, rather than burning out from having to spend yet another four hours helping some dumb noob who couldn't be bothered reading the basic docs.

Yes there are lots of new players who read the docs, jump into the game, don't need much help, and don't become a burden to anyone, and contribute a lot to the game and the enjoyment of everyone else. But even -one- new player who becomes a burden, is one waste of time for a helper who could otherwise be playing and enjoying the game.

I say absolutely positively no to adding more "responsibility" to helpers. The game has a steep learning curve. It says so right in the docs. As for that 40 minute immteraction expectation, I don't know where you're pulling that from. I played a high-profile sponsored role for almost a year, and after the first few months, I think I had -maybe- an hour's worth of in-game interaction with a clan NPC. In six MONTHS.

No one should have any expectation of any "immteraction" at all, period. Getting to roleplay with an IMM's NPC is a privilege, and not something anyone should ever expect. If you're expecting it -at all- then you're expecting too much.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Quote from: Lizzie on November 19, 2009, 11:24:33 AM
As for that 40 minute immteraction expectation, I don't know where you're pulling that from. I played a high-profile sponsored role for almost a year, and after the first few months, I think I had -maybe- an hour's worth of in-game interaction with a clan NPC. In six MONTHS.

No one should have any expectation of any "immteraction" at all, period. Getting to roleplay with an IMM's NPC is a privilege, and not something anyone should ever expect. If you're expecting it -at all- then you're expecting too much.

I heartily agree. I would, in fact, recommend that players who are going into sponsored roles for the most part hold the mindset that they will be on their own just about completely; then, if they do get immteraction, or email responses, or plot help, it will feel like extra trimmings. Because sometimes you won't get any interaction or support at all in sponsored roles, and if you've designed your role around needing anything from the staff, it can be a major disappointment and feel ruinous--when it doesn't need to really be either of those things.

The way I see it anymore, the players are the main meal and the staff are an optional (yet delightful) condiment.
Quote from: Vanth on February 13, 2008, 05:27:50 PM
I'm gonna go all Gimfalisette on you guys and lay down some numbers.

Quote from: ibusoe on November 12, 2009, 11:30:58 AM
IMHO, this is where the helpers come in.  I think that helpers should be willing to spend the time with troubled players, and help players to prioritize their requests for staff help.  Some players expect too much personalized attention from staff, and should be brought around to the fact that they should not, under any circumstances, expect much more than about 40 minutes of staff interaction per month.

In other cases, you see a player being unfairly punished, or struggling with basic communication problems, or not receiving the rewards and recognition they deserve.  In any bureaucracy, the squeaky wheel gets the grease but we have few people on hand to stick up for the quietest, hardest-working, most consistent workers. 

There are two problems here that jump out at me. 

First, if a player is expecting more staff attention and we refer them to the helpers that probably isn't going to help.  The person is going to reject being referenced to the helpers and probably give the helper quite an earful in the process.  It kind of makes me think of my dealings with comcast.  If the first person who answers the phone is a the helper, I'd say a company whose policy is to make someone who isn' t involved in the decision making process the person who is supposed to deal with my complaint than that company is just trying to get rid of their customers.  We're not a company, we're a game, and we don't hate our players or our helpers.  I think it is fair for a player to expect a staff member to give them the respect to hear from us why we're responding to one of their requests one way or another.

On another note, requests arn't a run and gun process that this thread seems to assume.  We can, and do, put notes on requests and allow multiple staff members to spend a fair bit of time trying to decide the best resolution for it. 

Tiernan: I think it's someone playing a game
Thistle: Is that game called 'armageddon'?
Nyr swings a steel greatsword named 'Immortal Slayer' at Thistle, a thorny potted plant.
Tiernan the Timelord leans backward and boots you right in your head.
/* T

Quote from: Lizzie on November 19, 2009, 11:24:33 AM

Yes there are lots of new players who read the docs, jump into the game, don't need much help, and don't become a burden to anyone, and contribute a lot to the game and the enjoyment of everyone else. But even -one- new player who becomes a burden, is one waste of time for a helper who could otherwise be playing and enjoying the game.


As I read this I can not help but think that if there is a helper that finds helping a burden, then perhaps they should not be a helper. It seems this is an option for one to take on and not a prerequisite. Yes there are players out there that need some extra tender care.. outside the game we are not expected to maintain the cut throat piss on you if you are not on fire and not piss on you if you are attitude. I believe that being a helper one should demonstrate above normal patience and willingness to -Help-.   
The funny little foreign man

I often hear the jingle to -Riunite on ice- when I read the estate name Reynolte, eve though there ain't no ice in Zalanthas.

Quote from: Thistle on November 19, 2009, 01:11:09 PM
There are two problems here that jump out at me. 

First, if a player is expecting more staff attention and we refer them to the helpers that probably isn't going to help.  The person is going to reject being referenced to the helpers and probably give the helper quite an earful in the process.  It kind of makes me think of my dealings with comcast.  If the first person who answers the phone is a the helper, I'd say a company whose policy is to make someone who isn' t involved in the decision making process the person who is supposed to deal with my complaint than that company is just trying to get rid of their customers.  We're not a company, we're a game, and we don't hate our players or our helpers.  I think it is fair for a player to expect a staff member to give them the respect to hear from us why we're responding to one of their requests one way or another.

On another note, requests arn't a run and gun process that this thread seems to assume.  We can, and do, put notes on requests and allow multiple staff members to spend a fair bit of time trying to decide the best resolution for it. 



No, you've got a point.  We don't want to turn the Helpers into the Comcast Helpdesk. 

But in what I propose, I don't want to be a zone where Staff punt cases that they don't feel like dealing wither.  Rather, I'd like for the Helpers to be a place where players can go if they feel like they're not getting a fair shake from staff.

What do I envision would happen most of the time?  I think most of the time would be that the Helpers would assist the troubled player to understand that yes, there are perfectly valid reasons why the staff are not giving you your magic-metal sword, your stat boost, your multi-shot crossbow and your pet bahamet all in the same week and that no, they're not being unfair.  Really, most of the time a player is upset I just think it would help if someone were available to listen.  Staff have too much to do to sit around listening to players griping. 

Of course, every now and then it could be the case that a player really hasn't gotten a fair shake because it's a complex case and staff are not able to make full consideration of an individual's problems.  What then?  I'd like helpers to have the authority to ask for a second review.

Quote from: Potaje on November 19, 2009, 01:25:38 PM
As I read this I can not help but think that if there is a helper that finds helping a burden, then perhaps they should not be a helper. It seems this is an option for one to take on and not a prerequisite. Yes there are players out there that need some extra tender care.. outside the game we are not expected to maintain the cut throat piss on you if you are not on fire and not piss on you if you are attitude. I believe that being a helper one should demonstrate above normal patience and willingness to -Help-.   

Yes, thank you.  I did not want to say it in as many words, but this is what I'm getting at.  Helpers should, as a general rule, be willing to help.

Quote from: Lizzie on November 19, 2009, 11:24:33 AM

No one should have any expectation of any "immteraction" at all, period. Getting to roleplay with an IMM's NPC is a privilege, and not something anyone should ever expect. If you're expecting it -at all- then you're expecting too much.


I disagree with this Lizzie.

I think that immteraction is what separates an RPI MUD from a hack + slash MMORPG.

With a table-top game, 100% of your actions are interpretted through the imagination of a storyteller, but this doesn't scale well.  In an RPI MUD, a codebase is handling a lot of the grind of routine tasks like hunting, crafting, eating and sleeping and wandering monsters.  Storytellers only come in to handle complexities that can't be addressed by the code.

Most successful players strive to be as independent as possible and not to be too dependent on having immteraction.  But let's not forget that there is a commitment in place here:

  Players have a commitment to the game to try to treat the world as a real, living, breathing environment and to play their characters realistically, not like video game characters.

  Staff --should-- have a commitment to the game to try to interface complex actions for characters when players want or need to do something for which the codebase is inadequate.

This isn't a videogame.  The code can't possibly anticipate everything we want to do in a realistic manner.

I think you misunderstand me ibusoe. I'll reiterate:
By "immteraction" I am assuming people mean interaction with staff-animated NPCs.

That whole "change" in staff policy, I only saw the ugly side of it. I saw a lot of people getting to experience fun moments with staff-animated NPCs and critters, while my character -needed- her NPC boss and was told all communication had to be done via e-mail. When some recruit in the clan got a visit from the clan's NPC gossip, I got to hear about it third-hand, while my character was scrambling to deal with issues that I was only allowed to communicate about via e-mail. When another clannie got the excitement of a "critter" doing something interesting, I got to hear about it third-hand, while I was typing off yet another report to the clan staff to tell them about a "situation", because I wasn't allowed to get that conversation in-game. If I had even half the time the staff spent in e-mails with me, roleplaying with their animated NPC bosses, I would've been overwhelmed with joy. It would've been the highlight of my arm-playing existence. It also would've cut down dramatically on e-mails in both directions.

Even now, with my most recent character, I had a completely un-scheduled, unremarkable, moment of imm-animated fun, for absolutely no reason, and I didn't wish up for it, and my character is a complete and total nobody. Yet my sponsored character of almost a year, had to pull REALLY STUPID SHIT in order to get any interaction at all. And even then I had to e-mail about it in advance to schedule it.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.