Better bards

[Gimfalisette]

Circle bard does not equal not-girtty, only-singing, not-warrior, not-traveling, etc. In fact, travel is required for Circle bards, as is combat, as are performance modes other than singing/playing.

[Akaramu]

It would be nice to see more bards that are just bards and not related to the circle, though. And maybe I've been around at the wrong times, but I've seen very few active bards outside of Tuluk. Especially not in Allanak. And every single one I've seen was upper-class well-spoken and well-mannered.

My next PC will soooooo be a half-giant bard.

[Akaramu]

Darn double post.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I guess what I mean is: I've had about 1/5 of my pcs perform in different ways. And publicly. I don't think that I could make a pc who was mainly a performer, though. Largely due to erratic and offpeak playing times. I've had luck with some who had an equal focus on that in conjunction with other things, but mainly, it's really a lot of work to come up with dozens of unique performances which I, as a player, can see as being worth the cost, especially considering the way the world is 'supposed' to work. I know, I should be turning it out for nobles/templars and suchlike, but I tend not to share playtimes with most of them, and most of my pcs would feel so intimidated by them, they'd tend to avoid them anyhow.


OOOOH, you must. I've seen this done... and when it's done well... I can think of nothing more entertaining than an HG bard.

[tortall]

Well, thing about non-Circle bards in Tuluk... The Circle kinda pressures them into joining a Circle. That's just how it works.


As for Nak, I've attempted to play bard-like characters there. It was never taken well, and most people threw food at me.


That's just my experience though. I know there have been several successful bards in Nak, but for the most part, they do NOT work. At all.

[Synthesis]

Well, thing about non-Circle bards in Tuluk... The Circle kinda pressures them into joining a Circle. That's just how it works.


As for Nak, I've attempted to play bard-like characters there. It was never taken well, and most people threw food at me.


That's just my experience though. I know there have been several successful bards in Nak, but for the most part, they do NOT work. At all.

Throwing of food is considered a compliment in 'nak, isn't it?

I mean, they are all starving to death down there.

[Gimfalisette]

It would be nice to see more bards that are just bards and not related to the circle, though. And maybe I've been around at the wrong times, but I've seen very few active bards outside of Tuluk. Especially not in Allanak. And every single one I've seen was upper-class well-spoken and well-mannered.

My next PC will soooooo be a half-giant bard.

In Tuluk, "bards" should all be of the Circle or in the process of being pressed into the Circle, or they should be laughed at and considered not to be good enough for the Circle. That's the culture there. Tuluki bards (of the Circle) aren't upper-class and shouldn't be thought of that way, because they are just commoners and most have no higher rank than the nearest aide. They don't mostly wear silks, they usually talk just like any other Tuluki does, and usually they're well-mannered because if they're not then some noble or templar (their patron, or someone else's patron) is going to come down on them. Also, bards rely at least in part on tips for their living (or should), and it's hard to get tips if you're not pleasing people.

I've seen half-giant bards of the Circle. (Medena played a good one.) I've seen sneaky elf bards of the Circle. There was a noted, badass Lyksaen-slave warrior bard not long ago. I myself have played bards of the Circle who world-traveled, drank people under the table, swore, got into brawls and fights, and did crime. Of course, it's possible that other players thought my bards were "upper-class well-spoken and well-mannered," but most players don't try to get to know bard PCs, either; so I don't think that's really a fair assessment. Even if those bard PCs are "silky," they may still be fascinating, deep PCs who deserve another look.

Allanak could always use a good bard or two.

[Pheonix]

Next challenge. Play a successful 'Nakki bard.

My two 'sids. Acting is also a thing bards can do. Diplomacy, etiquette, etc, etc. There's a Circle for pretty much everything.

[Akaramu]

Well. When I meant more not-circle bards, I was mainly thinking of active bards in Luir's and Allanak. 

Haven't played in Luir's much though, so I might have missed them.

[Gimfalisette]

I know, I should be turning it out for nobles/templars and suchlike, but I tend not to share playtimes with most of them, and most of my pcs would feel so intimidated by them, they'd tend to avoid them anyhow.

It is an unfortunate misconception that the primary role of bards is to perform for nobles and templars. In Tuluk, bards of the Circle should be used by nobles and templars (their patrons) to entertain, pacify, educate, and politicize the common masses. Bards aren't toys for the upper castes, they are weapons. While a bard may be called on to do a command performance for a noble or templar, or to perform at an event or competition, the bread-and-butter of a bard's existence should be engaging with commoners, talking about current events, gathering information, sowing rumors, telling jokes and stories, educating and guiding, and throwing in the occasional performance which caters to topics commoners enjoy (sex, booze, spice, and murder).

Tuluki bard is, in fact, the ultimate tavern-sitting role if you want to play it that way.

[Niamh]

Well, thing about non-Circle bards in Tuluk... The Circle kinda pressures them into joining a Circle. That's just how it works.


As for Nak, I've attempted to play bard-like characters there. It was never taken well, and most people threw food at me.


That's just my experience though. I know there have been several successful bards in Nak, but for the most part, they do NOT work. At all.

The Circle does not pressure people into joining.  There is social pressure from other sources to join the Circle if the bard wants to gain any sort of respect or status.  Otherwise they're not taken nearly as seriously.

This subject has been brought up before, so I'll reiterate what I said previously.  Bards do work in Allanak, and are totally playable there...provided the bard's entertainment style fits Allanaki social norms for entertainment.  House Fale is well known for their stock of bards and other entertainer types.

[Gimfalisette]

Well. When I meant more not-circle bards, I was mainly thinking of active bards in Luir's and Allanak. 

Yeah, I haven't seen another bard in Nak since yours. So sad. There was a Byn guy who also kind of barded, and he was excellent as well. I do love bards in Allanak. Someone make one that lives and is awesome!

[Zoltan]

The closest I came to barding was with my last combat character. Singing terrible songs and weaving tales of adventure... it made me really interested in going all out on a bard concept someday.

[palomar]

The Circle does not pressure people into joining.  There is social pressure from other sources to join the Circle if the bard wants to gain any sort of respect or status.  Otherwise they're not taken nearly as seriously.

There is also the matter of bardic hotspots and income. In my experience, the Circle will put some pressure (of a social kind mostly) on performers who think they are bards, compete with Circle bards and seem to actually get money off of it. It's not necessarily a pressure to join the Circle, especially if the performers aren't citizens. I suppose it can sometimes be quite a grey area.

[Schrodingers Cat]

Can't bards do other things than sing and play songs?  To me, this becomes tedious quickly.

My favorite bard was an sculptor/painter, storyteller and a historian.  Maybe he was my favorite because he wasn't a performance bard and spent much of his time kicking ass .

[Gimfalisette]

Can't bards do other things than sing and play songs?  To me, this becomes tedious quickly.

My favorite bard was an sculptor/painter, storyteller and a historian.  Maybe he was my favorite because he wasn't a performance bard and spent much of his time kicking ass .

This has already been explicated over and over in this thread. Yes, bards can do all kinds of things. In fact, bards of Poets' Circle must do many kinds of things skillfully in order to advance.

However, the ongoing implication that performance bards necessarily suck and are the worst kinds of bards is starting to make me very, very cranky.

[Gimfalisette]

There is also the matter of bardic hotspots and income. In my experience, the Circle will put some pressure (of a social kind mostly) on performers who think they are bards, compete with Circle bards and seem to actually get money off of it. It's not necessarily a pressure to join the Circle, especially if the performers aren't citizens. I suppose it can sometimes be quite a grey area.

Yeah, what palomar said. No one cares if you're hanging out at the non-tavern-of-the-moment and performing for no tips, but if you're putting yourself in the public eye and taking income and notice away from the recognized bards, then there will be trouble. In Tuluk, conforming to tradition is everything; threatening the traditional social structure will get you disappeared.

This whole thread is making me want to play another Circle bard. My sole complaint about doing so is that there are rarely enough other Circle bards or other competition around for me to PvP against.

[jhunter]

The closest I came was a non-circle street performer that was alot of fun except for Circle bards harrassing me. I was out in the streets and had people gathering around me to watch my various acts. Circle bards in Tuluk openly harrassing me (nothing subtle or Tuluki there) was what ruined the character for me. I would've thought they would have tried to get me into the Circle rather than treat me like dirt because I wasn't part already. Obviously, my pc was a decent performer because several times I would just pick a spot and start performing and pcs would end up gathering. Left a bad taste in my mouth regarding Circle bards though.

Edit: I made an incorrect statement because I misread another post.

[Schrodingers Cat]

Can't bards do other things than sing and play songs?  To me, this becomes tedious quickly.

My favorite bard was an sculptor/painter, storyteller and a historian.  Maybe he was my favorite because he wasn't a performance bard and spent much of his time kicking ass .

This has already been explicated over and over in this thread. Yes, bards can do all kinds of things. In fact, bards of Poets' Circle must do many kinds of things skillfully in order to advance.

However, the ongoing implication that performance bards necessarily suck and are the worst kinds of bards is starting to make me very, very cranky.

Maybe not so much "suck", as unappreciated.  IC performances just don't fit well.  There isn't much interaction to be had in watching someone 'perform' in a series of emotes.  Sure there's a place in Zalanthas for performances, I just think they should be short and sweet, people can acknowledge that they are good/bad/mediocore (which opens up a can of worms when it comes to personal asthetics), and then people can swiftly move along to the murder, corruption, betrayal and other things that people play for.

My point is I wish bards wouldn't highlight this part of being a bard so much, as other aspects of being a bard.

[Gimfalisette]

Then I have to say that I wish players would pay/tip Circle bards for doing things other than performing. Making a living as a dedicated bard can be very, very difficult (especially if you don't know what the hell you're doing in Tuluk)--and everything that a good bard can do for other PCs usually goes unappreciated and unrewarded.

[tortall]

However, the ongoing implication that performance bards necessarily suck and are the worst kinds of bards is starting to make me very, very cranky.

This whole thread is making me want to play another Circle bard. My sole complaint about doing so is that there are rarely enough other Circle bards or other competition around for me to PvP against.

This. I've noticed the hatred of people towards performance bards has caused over half of the bards I've seen in last year to almost NEVER perform. Granted, there may be other reasons, but.... I, personally, enjoy performances.


Note: anyone who has played/is playing one of the non-performance bards, this is NOT an attack at you. This is me stating what -I- think is a reason there have been such a large number of you.

[spawnloser]

Circle bards are less gritty than other bards.  Just because they've got some grit doesn't mean they're as gritty as the rest of the game.  You want to play a gritty, pushed down, spit on bard?  Play a gemmer bard.

[musashi]

A gemmer breed bard.

[Reiloth]

A gemmer breed bard.

A nilazi breed bard.

[Reiloth]

A gemmer breed bard.

A nilazi breed bard.

A nilazi breed bard that smells like persimmons.