Stat Range Option

[Sephiroto]

There is a timeless debate about how stats do and don't affect a PC.  Over the years the staff has modified the code to allow for prioritization of stats and even for their adjustment due to age.  Dispite all the hard work gone into stats, we're still left with gripes about unplayable rolls.  Therefore I propose the following: Stat Ranges.

There are 3 ranges.  

Normal Range.  Stat rolls remain as they are now, random from Poor to AI.  
Medium Range: Stats roll from Average to Very Good.  
Tight Range: Stats roll from Above Average to Good.

These 3 ranges would give players the ability to ensure that their stats fit somewhat of a mold that allow them to be what they want them to be.  The available ranges would ensure that all players could have "playable" stats whenever they wanted them, but with proper sacrifice of higher teir stat rolls.

Discuss.

EDIT: I tightened the ranges a bit.

[Qzzrbl]

I'd fuck it.

+1

::EDIT:: Now wait.... Is this before, or after age and size and race and class modifiers?

[Cutthroat]

If such an idea were put into place, the ranges should definitely be tighter. A guaranteed average or above average stat should come at a higher cost.

Normal Range.  Stat rolls remain as they are now, random from Poor to AI.
Tight Range: Stats roll from Average to Good.

If a player absolutely doesn't want poor stats, then they should have to settle for fairly mediocre ones.

[Sephiroto]

Now wait.... Is this before, or after age and size and race and class modifiers?

My idea was that stat ranges would affect the final results you see in your score, not the pre-race/size/class modifiers.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I prefer the current system.

[Fnord]

Good bye low stats.

[roughneck]

wouldn't use it

[jstorrie]

I don't think the gripes about low stats need to be addressed.

[musashi]

I don't think the gripes about low stats need to be addressed.

If everyone could get average or better rolls all the time, then very good would just become the new poor, and we'd suicide anything that wasn't exceptional or above.

[Spice Spice Baby]

Personally I don't find this necessary and wouldn't use it.

[Sephiroto]

Personally, I would use normal stat rolls also because I'm a veteran and more than willing to work with a Poor stat, but there are people who might want "normal" stats across the board and would be very happy with it.  That's what I'm advocating for.

I don't see how Very Good would become the new poor.  Where do you get that idea?  Very Good or Good would be the new AI for some people and Average/AA respectively would be the new Poor.  And, under my proposal, the only way to get an Exceptional stat would be to use the normal roll set anyway.  If anything, there would be less storages and suicides because people who want to have moderate stats can now be guaranteed them.

[musashi]

I guess I'm just saying that people don't actually want moderate stats. They want awesome stats.

[Qzzrbl]

I would use this.

[Xagon]

I'm against this, but I still advocate the ability to rollback to your previous reroll. There is nothing more disappointing than having all your "below average" stats suddenly become poor.

[RogueGunslinger]

What about the option to get above average on every stat.

[brytta.leofa]

What about the option to get above average on every stat.

But then they wouldn't be--
...did I just get baited?

[Clearsighted]

I'm against this, but I still advocate the ability to rollback to your previous reroll. There is nothing more disappointing than having all your "below average" stats suddenly become poor.

Agreed.

[RogueGunslinger]

In a way I guess you did, brytta.

[Delstro]

I would use this for the characters that I designed that would require stats above poor.

[jhunter]

I think that the people that would consider a pc unplayable because of stats typically want awesome stats or nothing anyway. I don't think this would solve anything and I really don't think anything needs to be done for the most part.

[ianmartin]

Poor stats are all well and good for someone who wants to sit about a tavern all day and do that for years, more power to them.
However, when you're playing a fighter who, *gasp* fights, go figure, having all poor stats fucks your day. up but good

[spawnloser]

There are no unplayable stats.  Order them so that whatever stat you think you need isn't last.

[jhunter]

I rarely had a character that didn't have suitable enough stats to play them when we didn't have stat ordering. Now that we do, I pretty much always have a character optimized for how I envision them. Are they all gonna be perfect? Are they all gonna be "the best"? Nope...but hey, that's just like real life.

[X-D]

Since stat ordering went in, I think I've had...6 PCs...I've still never ordered my stats. I still get what I will play.

The rest of you that order stats should be even better off.

That being said, I would not mind if there was an option where you could choose to have nothing below above ave and nothing above good.

I don't see the need, but I'm not against it.

[ibusoe]

It's another option that would be easy to code, and would offer a safety net to (the sort of player) who would be likely to suicide a crappy character anyway.
People who didn't like it could just ignore it.


+1

[Aaron Goulet]

I love stat ordering, but has anyone else experienced an issue where your stats aren't ordered in the way you specify?  It kinda defeats the purpose of the system if it doesn't even work.

[Delstro]

The stat ordering takes effect before your race/age/guild modifiers take place. So you may well end up with four goods, but when those three things get added in, it could be three goods and a very good.

[Aaron Goulet]

The stat ordering takes effect before your race/age/guild modifiers take place. So you may well end up with four goods, but when those three things get added in, it could be three goods and a very good.

That makes more sense to me.  Thank you.

[Adiadochokinesis]

I think most peoples complaints would be alleviated if the staff were more agreeable to raising the stats of long-lived characters.

[musashi]

I think most peoples complaints would be alleviated if the staff were more agreeable to raising the stats of long-lived characters.

I don't know how agreeable staff may or may not be for raising the stats of long-lived characters, but overall, I agree that a sense of feeling like your hanging in there and sticking with it will be rewarded goes a long way.

[Adiadochokinesis]

I think most peoples complaints would be alleviated if the staff were more agreeable to raising the stats of long-lived characters.

I don't know how agreeable staff may or may not be for raising the stats of long-lived characters, but overall, I agree that a sense of feeling like your hanging in there and sticking with it will be rewarded goes a long way.

Indeed, sir. I think a lot of long-lived characters can get boring because you end up losing a sense of accomplishment. Once skills stop branching and you stop seeing gains, things might get boring. Not everyone plays this way, but it's a universal draw. People like to advance.

[Aaron Goulet]

Indeed, sir. I think a lot of long-lived characters can get boring because you end up losing a sense of accomplishment. Once skills stop branching and you stop seeing gains, things might get boring. Not everyone plays this way, but it's a universal draw. People like to advance.

I think World of Warcraft proves this point very well: Blizzard Entertainment has the psychology of achievement down to a fine science, and look at their subscriber numbers!

On-topic, I would like to say that I agree with you and musashi, so long as there is an in-character reason for the gain;  I do not think that statistics should be raised solely because of a character's tenure, but then again, I do not think that is what you guys are suggesting, either.

[Morrolan]

I guess I'm just saying that people don't actually want moderate stats. They want awesome stats.

I'd use the for some character concepts.  Probably more than half, actually.  I had considered proposing something like this, except that all rolls could be set straight to the 50% mark.

Maybe it's a quirk of my personality, Musashi, but I fear low stats much more than I want good ones.  Then again, maybe I'm not as alone as I think...

[Aaron Goulet]

Maybe it's a quirk of my personality, Musashi, but I fear low stats much more than I want good ones.  Then again, maybe I'm not as alone as I think...

You're not alone at all.  There's no way I'm gonna type 'reroll self' if all of my stats are at least 'average' or better.

[musashi]

I usually play young characters so I'm kind of accustomed to seeIng at least two stats at poor no matter what priority, race or guild combo I shoot for. I typically think I'm lucky if my PC has a below average stat in those cases.

Anyway I agree that sometimes stats can be so low as to be unplayable ... like say ... your city elf burgular who ended up with poor strength and can not even "hold" a drink mug because it's too heavy for him. Or your half-giant merchant who doesn't have enough space in his inventory to hold the items he needs to craft because his agility is so terrible (I think maybe staff fixed this one), or your half giant/mul/dwarf who might .... maybe ... have wisdom so poor he doesn't have the  mana required to cast anything (I know staff already fixed this one).

My point is ... I think that unplayable stats do exist, but typically only in the context of getting screwed by the racial modifiers on top of a crappy roll. So I think all that really needs to be done is to have staff maybe raise the "minimum" of how low a stat can be so that it can at least be functional. Beyond that I think they're all playable and can be off set by skill with time. Be even better if folks thought staff might even let those crappy stats be improved with time. 

[hyzhenhok]

I usually play young characters so I'm kind of accustomed to seeIng at least two stats at poor no matter what priority, race or guild combo I shoot for. I typically think I'm lucky if my PC has a below average stat in those cases.

Anyway I agree that sometimes stats can be so low as to be unplayable ... like say ... your city elf burgular who ended up with poor strength and can not even "hold" a drink mug because it's too heavy for him. Or your half-giant merchant who doesn't have enough space in his inventory to hold the items he needs to craft because his agility is so terrible (I think maybe staff fixed this one), or your half giant/mul/dwarf who might .... maybe ... have wisdom so poor he doesn't have the  mana required to cast anything (I know staff already fixed this one).

My point is ... I think that unplayable stats do exist, but typically only in the context of getting screwed by the racial modifiers on top of a crappy roll. So I think all that really needs to be done is to have staff maybe raise the "minimum" of how low a stat can be so that it can at least be functional. Beyond that I think they're all playable and can be off set by skill with time. Be even better if folks thought staff might even let those crappy stats be improved with time. 

Morgenes has said that he'll look into anything utterly unplayable, as well as situations when you get stats completely counter to what your character needs. If your elf can't lift a mug, or your 30 year old human warrior who prioritized strength still only has below average strength and poor, poor and poor for everything else, I bet you can get the staff to look at it.

[musashi]

Agreed.

[Morgenes]

Morgenes has said that he'll look into anything utterly unplayable, as well as situations when you get stats completely counter to what your character needs. If your elf can't lift a mug, or your 30 year old human warrior who prioritized strength still only has below average strength and poor, poor and poor for everything else, I bet you can get the staff to look at it.

And, FYI, I have yet to receive a single request for review.

[Fathi]

Morgenes has said that he'll look into anything utterly unplayable, as well as situations when you get stats completely counter to what your character needs. If your elf can't lift a mug, or your 30 year old human warrior who prioritized strength still only has below average strength and poor, poor and poor for everything else, I bet you can get the staff to look at it.

And, FYI, I have yet to receive a single request for review.

I sent something to Morgenes a few months back regarding stats and the issue in question has since been fixed.

So, just chiming in to say that yes, Arm's staff are quite serious about offering help if you run into a situation where your stats are preventing certain skills or code functions from working correctly.

[ianmartin]

I believe they worked on stats to help weak players craft items that require multiple ingredients.  I had a char that was wear previously and could only hold about 4 things or so.  Now items can be crafted from the room, sterling example