New mount code?

[Veges]

"You fall off an inix." What the hell is this? Some kind of new mount code? Apparently while traveling in any terrain that isn't a road, you have what appears to be a 50% chance to fall off your mount every time you move from one room to another, losing 5-10 health and becoming dismounted. This makes off-road movement utterly unplayable. I had to move ten rooms across flat desert and lost 30 health, not to mention the frustration of having to mount up again every other step. This was definitely not the case last time I played a character who left the city.

[X-D]

Your still at very low skill then.

At max normal skill (IE, not a class or sub or race that gets uber ride) I've never fallen off more then 1 time in 30 rough terrain rooms.

[Veges]

Then it might be bugged. My character is of a race known for their riding skills and doesn't get the "refuses to move" message at all. Whatever the case, I have to seriously question the idea of falling off one's mount every other room, and especially the fact that it costs a significant amount of health each time. It utterly destroys playability and isn't even remotely realistic.

[MarshallDFX]

It helps on large rides, where the newbie only has to get back on their mount, rather than have the whole party wait while they try to move a thousand times.

[brytta.leofa]

- "Refuses to move" has, afaik, been mostly replaced with these "more interesting" messages.
- Fallin' off your critter hurts.
- It might be unrealistic for your PC to be that much perseverant.
- Yeah, maybe your PC is bugged.
- Maybe yer critter ain't been broke proper. You buy him off an elf?
- Maybe 'gickers hexeded your critter.

[Morgenes]

Please re-read the helpfile on ride.  It details several percautions you can take (such as slowing your mount down and riding with both hands free) that can improve yourchances to the point that you should rarely get the falling off result.  If this continues to be an issue, mailmea log of a sample ride as well as your character's name and account.

[Aaron Goulet]

Please re-read the helpfile on ride.  It details several percautions you can take (such as slowing your mount down and riding with both hands free) that can improve yourchances to the point that you should rarely get the falling off result.  If this continues to be an issue, mailmea log of a sample ride as well as your character's name and account.

Riding with both hands on the reins, in particular, will save your rump a lot of unnecessary pain.  This makes sense, especially if you're a n00b rider.  And before someone goes comparing riding a sunback to Western-style, real-world horseback riding.... NO COMPARISON.

[Xagon]

Real riders ride kanks.

Too bad they're all dead. The riders, that is.

If it's still bad, solve it IG. Offer to pay for lessons, have someone teach you, etc.

[Synthesis]

The difficulty level of some terrains seems a little off.

There's a certain area of "flat, barren plains" that's actually more difficult to ride through than "the looming, steep-sided desert dunes" nearby.

Also:  the new mount code may have been intended to make it easier for large groups with newbies to move around, but all it does is make it several degrees more frustrating.  You can stop and wait for a newbie to catch up pretty easily.  Stopping and waiting for them to recover their HP (after falling repeatedly) or their stamina (after they give up and just start walking) is quite a bit more time-consuming than the old "refuses to move" thing.

[MeTekillot]

The difficulty level of some terrains seems a little off.

There's a certain area of "flat, barren plains" that's actually more difficult to ride through than "the looming, steep-sided desert dunes" nearby.

Also:  the new mount code may have been intended to make it easier for large groups with newbies to move around, but all it does is make it several degrees more frustrating.  You can stop and wait for a newbie to catch up pretty easily.  Stopping and waiting for them to recover their HP (after falling repeatedly) or their stamina (after they give up and just start walking) is quite a bit more time-consuming than the old "refuses to move" thing.

The "refuse to move" thing is still around, if you're saying that it's been replaced.

[jmordetsky]

Please re-read the helpfile on ride.  It details several percautions you can take (such as slowing your mount down and riding with both hands free) that can improve yourchances to the point that you should rarely get the falling off result.  If this continues to be an issue, mailmea log of a sample ride as well as your character's name and account.

Hey - I know this is an older thread, but it had been a bit since I've played and I recently logged in and was teaching a n00b to play. We're riding along and I'm like - why is my health and stam going down. Turns out I guess we were falling off our mounts and I just didn't notice.

One thing I would suggest is maybe a message with a check for both hands on the reins like: with only one hand on the reins you lose your grip and fall. I suggest this because - a) There is no way I would have went to read the docs and b) As obvious as it is to ride with 2 hands, I probably wouldn't have thought about that without reading this and c) There is no way my n00by little friend would have even realized he wasn't on his mount.

Edit: If it already says this then pls ignore.

Edit: I just thought about this - if you get thrown from your mount do you land on your feet? Wouldn't it stop you from moving? If so - what would have caused hp loss? Storms? I'll review it again later...sorry for the confusion. Need to pay more attention.

[Synthesis]

If you see your mount arrive after you, it means you fell off.

Of course, if you didn't 'hitch' it before heading off, it will remain in the room you moved from.

In either case, you won't continue to lose hitpoints unless you re-mount and fail again.

Unless there's some abject failure level that I've never encountered.

[Potaje]

I can understand the questioning on whether the ride code is a little wonki. I saw a 70+ warrior fall off their mount three or four times in a row, Riding both hands. Strange I thought then snickered.

[Synthesis]

I can understand the questioning on whether the ride code is a little wonki. I saw a 70+ warrior fall off their mount three or four times in a row, Riding both hands. Strange I thought then snickered.

If your mount is set to running, you're in mountainous or forested terrain, and you don't have maxed-ranger-level ride, this is only slightly on the unlikely side.  That being said, my current PC (a warrior) only fell off several times the day immediately following the change, then Morgenes re-balanced some things and I've never fallen off since, even running while dual-wielding through some fairly rough (not the roughest) terrain.

[Veges]

Could it be made to cost stun instead of hit points or something? At the frequency with which this happens for medium-skilled riders, the health loss is crippling. It also deals about as much damage as being struck lightly+ with a sword, about 5-8 or so. As we all know, trying to recover a third of your health outdoors on a very hot day can take an hour, and the idea itself is not even remotely realistic - only a person paralyzed from the neck down would fall off a walking mount every couple hundred feet.

[Adiadochokinesis]

Could it be made to cost stun instead of hit points or something? At the frequency with which this happens for medium-skilled riders, the health loss is crippling. It also deals about as much damage as being struck lightly+ with a sword, about 5-8 or so. As we all know, trying to recover a third of your health outdoors on a very hot day can take an hour, and the idea itself is not even remotely realistic - only a person paralyzed from the neck down would fall off a walking mount every couple hundred feet.

This is true. My first time riding a rather untrained gelding, I only fell off at an extremely fast gallop. At all other times, I faced no danger of falling.

In over 100 hours of riding, I've never fallen off. And I've ridden some very rough horses.

[Cerelum]

Your Gelding was never being chased by a lizard as big as a clydesdale or a seven foot tall elf with etheopian running talents in the middle of a sand dune strewn world while sand whipped around so fast and hard you could see more then a few feet in front of you.

[musashi]

Could it be made to cost stun instead of hit points or something? At the frequency with which this happens for medium-skilled riders, the health loss is crippling. It also deals about as much damage as being struck lightly+ with a sword, about 5-8 or so. As we all know, trying to recover a third of your health outdoors on a very hot day can take an hour, and the idea itself is not even remotely realistic - only a person paralyzed from the neck down would fall off a walking mount every couple hundred feet.

This is true. My first time riding a rather untrained gelding, I only fell off at an extremely fast gallop. At all other times, I faced no danger of falling.

In over 100 hours of riding, I've never fallen off. And I've ridden some very rough horses.

I was going to be slly and post a reply something the likes of:

INSERT "BUT THIS IS ZALANTHAS SO EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT AND SOMEHOW YOUR APPLICABALE EXPERIENCE DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE OF THIS CATCH-ALL EXCUSE.

Then I decided not to ... but it's kind of funny that that was the first reply you got anyway 

[brytta.leofa]

I have to say, even with the falling, I like the new mount code a heckuva lot better than the old.

Your mount refuses to move.
Your mount refuses to move.
Your mount refuses to move.
Your mount refuses to move.
Your mount refuses to move.
Your mount refuses to move.
Your mount refuses to move.
Your mount refuses to move.
Your mount refuses to move.
Your mount refuses to move.
Your mount refuses to move.
Your mount refuses to move.
Your mount refuses to move.
Your mount refuses to move.
...
Your mount refuses to move.
To the north, a male voice shouts, in sirihish,
  "Get a horse!"

[Zoltan]

I have to say, even with the falling, I like the new mount code a heckuva lot better than the old.

Agreed. The falling damage may be a touch too extreme, but otherwise I love the change.

[Fredd]

its no prob if you take certain precautions when riding.

i've had noob warriors that get on a mount for the first time, and go for a long ride, and never fall. now people have moved to fast a few times, but not fallen

[Gunnerblaster]

I think the damage incurred from "falling" from your mount should be semi-similiar to what type of damage you would receive if someone codedly "hit" you (Barehanded). Only 1-2 loss of health while losing maybe 5-10 stun. Stun recovers MUCH faster then health, no matter where you are, and I'd rather have to use a vial to wake someone up then to have to bandage their suddenly "critical condition" wounds (if they were dumb enough to keep riding).

[RogueGunslinger]

Errr. Okay, as a recent victim of moving three rooms and losing a quarter of my hitpoints; I'd just like to say this is fucking stupid.


I'll come roleplay with you all in a few hours, when my hp replenishes.

[Morgenes]

While you're sitting around, why don't you mail me a log of what you did, and include any extra information like how many hands you had free and what speed you were travelling at and I'll examine your case.

[RogueGunslinger]

Sorry, got a bit upset there.

The case is with newbie ride, one handed, fell off three times in a row at walking speed just outside allanak before I even realized that the damage was so great each time.

I'm not upset that I fell off three times in a row, I'm upset that it takes 10 hp per drop. Health is incredibly hard to Regen most of the time in the desert, and since the desert is the only place you seem to fall off... Yeah the levels of HP drop just seem too great, especially for those races and people who don't roll good endurance.

[Synthesis]

Sorry, got a bit upset there.

The case is with newbie ride, one handed, fell off three times in a row at walking speed just outside allanak before I even realized that the damage was so great each time.

I'm not upset that I fell off three times in a row, I'm upset that it takes 10 hp per drop. Health is incredibly hard to Regen most of the time in the desert, and since the desert is the only place you seem to fall off... Yeah the levels of HP drop just seem too great, especially for those races and people who don't roll good endurance.

It's not that bad once you realize that you have to practice before you go out.  Just one more little newbie hurdle.

On the other hand, you could always roll up a half-elf ranger/mercenary and start out with ride high enough to juggle flaming torches at a dead sprint through the mountains.

[Zoltan]

Zoltan's newbie riding advice: Your mad skillz at anything are never as mad as they seem. Ride with both hands free at all times until you stop getting warning messages that you aren't that great. "But I -need- a weapon out!" Then do two things that every warrior-type character should do: alias dismount and alias your "draw swords of doom" action. That way when combat happens, you just go >dm >dw >ds or whatever you use and you're all good to go without falling off your mount every two rooms before hand!

[RogueGunslinger]

Once again. My issue isn't with the frequency of the falls. Or that there is falling. Or with the progression of the skill in any way. I understand why my character fell three times in a row.

I don't understand why he's now mangled both of his arms, and dislocated his hip. PErhaps the echo's could indicate that the mount is trampling over you too, when you fall. Then it would make sense. Not as much as lowering the hp damage done would though.



I even propose a counterbalance: Raise the stun-loss.

[X-D]

Blink.

Most the Zalanthus mount animals are pretty tall.

Have you ever fallen off a horse IRL? I mean, People are often killed or maimed from that. And I'm talking a surprise fall, not rodeo where people do it for a living on specialy groomed dirt. When you fall off a mount your head is 95% of the time what is heading for the ground and the ground is rarely friendly. Both the times I've come off my horse by surprise, I was Injured. If I was to put the injuries into game terms, both times would have been 30-40hp and double that in stun. Both times I could have easily broken my neck or crushed my skull, but I managed to get twisted around the first time so I only dislocated my shoulder and lost some scalp. And the second time I grabbed the horses tail on the way down, stopping a drop on the head but earning myself a bruised lung and 3 cracked ribs when the horse kicked me. And that is just an animal around 5' tall at the shoulder. Not a 12' tall giant lizard or what have you.
10hp per fall, your getting off lightly.

If anything damage should be drasticly increased and frequency dropped to something VERY low.

[RogueGunslinger]

At a brisk run or full gallop, hell maybe even a quick trot I agree with you. However I'm willing to bet a fit man falling off his horse would only sustain significant injury(while the beast was walking, not running) maybe one of a hundred times. The issue with pulling any sort of facts out of my ass about this is pretty hard though, because I don't think anyone's ever fallen off an animal that was walking.

[X-D]

You don't fall off when the animal is walking.

You fall off because they jumped to the right/left/forward/backwards, kick up and turn suddenly, surge forward etc etc etc etc etc. And though the code does not say "Your mount bucks and spins to the right throwing you on your head" Does not mean that is not what is happening. And then your numbers are more like 1 in 2 for taking injury. Fit, unfit, does not matter. If you are not a VERY experianced rider, the horse rearing up like they always show in the movies WILL land you on the ground and odds are you will be landing head and shoulders first. Then you have to take into account the ground itself, how many ruts, boulders, sharp rocks, roots, stumps, thorny bushes, hell, concrete hard salt.

And that is a horse, a rather small mount by zalanthus standards, well behaved with saddle and all. Not some 8 foot tall smooth shelled pissed off bug. Or 10 foot tall armored lizard. Osha says that a worker cannot be in a position to free fall more then 6' without fall protection, Why, because falls from that height or greater, by fit men USUALLY result in injury or death.

[RogueGunslinger]

Erhmmm.. Let me try a new approach then.

The Hp loss is significant enough to make it not fun, instead of adding a little realistic flavor to the game. I believe around 3-5 hp would be a much more sufficient number from a playability standpoint for hp loss due to falling off of a mount.

[RogueGunslinger]

Another note: When was the last time you've seen a domesticated riding animal throw a new rider in real life? I can't imagine it happening too often.

I have ridden a camel and a horse, one down the grand canyon and another in desert dunes. Both were my first time on such an animal, the horse was my first time riding anything. In neither instance was the animal so wild that, even when I couldn't guide it properly, it held little to no chance of bucking me off, or of me losing my grip on the animal.

The code is unrealistic in this sense.

[X-D]

Ah yes, the Hey, I rode an animal that has been carrying newb riders down the same trails every day for the last twenty years...and I had no problems!!!

Of course you had no problems, You might not be an experienced rider...the horse/camel were experienced mounts. Lets see you take a 6 year old stallion that has never been on that trail and has only ever had one other rider. Please have the EMT chopper standing by.

I mean, comparing Zalanthas landscape and mounts to earth landscape and mounts is already comparing apples and monkeys, but now you have moved on to apples and Dark matter.

And of course new riders IRL getting thrown and injured does not happen often, why, because you don't let them start out on animals that are a risk.

And as I said earlier, I do not agree that the damage should be less, it should be far more. But the odds of it happening should be reduced like 50 times. Down to where a maxed out rider should never have it happen, even galloping through the mountains juggling flaming torches. (assuming correct guild/sub or race choices.)

[RogueGunslinger]

Ah. Well Then in this case experience beats anecdote. I concede that the mount code, while not perfect, may be as good as it can possibly get in this incarnation of the game world and really is pretty awesome as stands. The dissatisfaction I taste seems to be from personal misconceptions.