Re:Guidlines for Creating Mutants

[Nyr]

Actually, all of them give reference (in the sdesc) to the race they mutated from, too. 
You can safely say that we're not asking anything of PCs that the NPCs in-game and in use don't already have to adhere to.

[Qzzrbl]

It's not so bad, your sdescs just have to be in this form now:

The slimy, mutated dwarf.

Yeah.... But I dunno, maybe it's just me, sdescs like that just seem a little forced. That's fine for NPCs, because I'm not playing them.

That's making me write, "The hunched, mutated dwarf", instead of "The hunched, red-scaled mutant".

It greatly cuts back on the creativity in writing sdescs, because now I have to reserve 3-5 characters of a limited sdesc space to clarify race, which is usually covered in the mdesc anyway.

[Thistle]

"Unfortunately we are no longer allowing mutant applications that do
not include the race in the sdesc and main desc.  This is primarily
for fairness sake.  A pc from a distance should be able to tell if
that short or tall figure is most likely human, dwarven, half elven,
half-giant. . ect.  By not including the race, a player has to guess
on assess what they are looking at racially (including racial
abilities).  An official post about this is fourth coming."

And that little bit I've got bolded, that's another thing that kinda gets to me....

Racial abilities are generally total OOC knowledge. it's just silly that they require me to clearly state my character's race so other characters know what "racial abilities" to look out for.

Since I'm the staffer that wrote this, I will clarify here.

A dwarf has the racial ability of being STRONG AS FRIGGIN HECK!! that is not an ooc piece of information, this is ic, you see a dwarf, you see something really strong, regardless of if it states the level of strength in the desc.  So, if I see the short, ruddy skinned dwarf, I know that typing 'hit ruddy' might result in serious consequences.  Where as if I see the short ruddy skinned mutant, I don't know what it is right off.  It could be anything, a short human, a shortish half elf.. ect.  

What we were seeing is mutant applications that appeared to be specifically hiding the race, giving them the mad abilities of the base race, without the other people around them being able to tell -this is a dangerously strong race- like dwarf, half giant or mul.  This is unfair.  This is a large part of the reasoning for this clarification.

Maybe I don't share your view on racial abilities, my characters tend to judge other character's strengths and weaknesses from the other character's mdescs, and assess helps out alot too.

If I see a short, ruddy-skinned mutant, who is actually a dwarf, then that would generally be made clear by his size and weight, and I'm sure his mdesc would have it known he's a short, stocky, hairless chunk of muscle.

Short humans can't get as short as even the tallest of dwarves, and even still, dwarves tend to weigh more.

Does the staff cut back the strength stat of a dwarf that's described as frail and unhealthily thin, but has Exceptional strength? Because that's misdirection right there, and could also be considered unfair.

If I see the short, ruddy dwarf, and I type "hit ruddy", I know I'm about to hit a dwarf.

If I see the short, ruddy mutant, that's shorter and thicker than a human could manage, and is described as being hairless and stocky in the mdesc, then I still know I'm about to hit a dwarf.

Staff should lean more towards having players throwing in more racial features in their mutants, rather than forcing them to label their race right off the bat.

I'm not going to speak on this very much more, but to address some of this:

I agree it is an imperfect system, but it is what we have.  A short human is not as short as a short dwarf, and yet both human and dwarf can both have short in their sdesc.  If we allowed you to replace the race noun with the noun mutant, than there would be no way of telling at a glance how tall 'short' is.  By doing this you can get away with having a mutant human -or- a mutant dwarf and the only way to tell would be to look at the character and read their mdesc, or assess the character.  Now assume that the character in question is doing something that requires fast thinking and reaction.  Ie: attacking you, running through the room, ect.  .  There would be no way for a player to necessarily have time to get the information that should be available to them at a glance.  Therefore it is an unfair advantage.  

Are we altering stats to fit descriptions?  Of course not.  

While we have a system where a sdesc is supposed to give you some very important bits of information, from a glance, it is important we maintain certain keywords that have meaning.  Race has meaning.  It means relative dimensions and attributes of a creature.  This is important information that is used to determine the best course of action.  While you maybe able to cover your features with a hood, and thus your race, the hood forces your sdesc keywords to be relative to your race vs their race.  Perhaps if the code allowed us to do this with normal sdescs than we could have a different policy on mutations, but given our current limitations we feel it is very important that this information is available in the sdesc.

Also if cramped style bothers you so much, would you feel better or worse if instead of racial keywords we required your character to have relative height and build in your sdesc.  Personally I think it is the lesser of evils.

[Qzzrbl]

Eeks, accidental double-post.

[Qzzrbl]

I honestly didn't mind it so much when your race was revealed with the "Assess" command.

You guys made it to where half-elves could appear as elf, human, or straight-up half-elf.

Why not give the option to have your race be assessable if you're gonna play a mutant?

[Nyr]

It's not so bad, your sdescs just have to be in this form now:

The slimy, mutated dwarf.

Yeah.... But I dunno, maybe it's just me, sdescs like that just seem a little forced. That's fine for NPCs, because I'm not playing them.

That's making me write, "The hunched, mutated dwarf", instead of "The hunched, red-scaled mutant".

It greatly cuts back on the creativity in writing sdescs, because now I have to reserve 3-5 characters of a limited sdesc space to clarify race, which is usually covered in the mdesc anyway.

You actually have more space with all of the possible races except half-giant.  In that case you would be losing space in the sdesc.  With that example, you could still type the hunched, red-scaled half-giant and it would fit, and it would be obvious your character is a mutant since half-giants don't have scales normally.
Saying you have to reserve a certain amount for race/or gender is nothing new, since you generally do that already with any other application.

[Uruz]

The issue here was radical differentials, like where half-giants, dwarves, or halflings are concerned.

From a distance, are you properly afraid of "the tiny-eyed mutant"?

How about "the tiny-eyed half-giant"?

Would you like to wait until you're in the room with "the tiny-eyed mutant" to assess what it might be?

We aren't accusing anyone of doing anything wrong, or trying to cramp anyone's style, we're just trying to remove some potential ambiguity with the system that we work with so that nobody has to worry about it.

The ability for half-elves to potentially appear as either of their parent races was intentional and has nothing to do with mutants.  The blurry lines of sizes between human, half-elf, and elf are also not considered an issue.

[Qzzrbl]

Right, but say I've got a half-giant with one eye, and scaly, plated skin that's purple. Those are his most defining features, and are thusly best-suited to be put in his sdesc.

So I'd write up something like, "The scaly, plate-skinned cyclops.", and it's clear in his mdesc that he's a half-giant.

But now, I've got to pick and choose which of his most defining features to put up in the sdesc, to make room for "half-giant".

"The scaly, plate-skinned half-giant"
"The scaly, one-eyed half-giant"

Etc., etc., like I said, maybe it's just me who'd get annoyed by this when trying to write up a freak of nature.

I wouldn't be so miffed if it weren't for the sdesc change, as I'm sure everyone here is savvy enough with the english language to make their race clear enough in their mdesc.

I'm sure Thisle would at least -look- at that short, ruddy-skinned mutant before attacking, he'd know what he's up against.

[Qzzrbl]

From a distance, are you properly afraid of "the tiny-eyed mutant"?

I also wasn't afraid of "The large black beetle" at first, because when I thought "large beetle" I thought something maybe as big as my head.

And only war-beetles are talked about in the fauna docs, so I thought war-beetles were the really big bastards to be afraid of....

Boy was I wrong there.....  

I also wouldn't be afraid of "The frail, rail-thin half-giant" from a distance neither, but he could have AI strength and an elf's agility for all I know.

[number13]

the clawed, razor-toothed mutant
The height, weight and overall mass of a dwarf, this short reptilian mutant stands just a little over three and a half cords tall.  Blueish-gray serpentine scales cover his massive, sinewy body, showing hints of iridescence as they ripple with each breath.  Like strips of chitin armor, larger, thicker bony scales cover the more delicate areas of his body--the back of his hands, elbows, and lower back, around his neck, and across the front of his shins and chest.  Long daggeresque claws erupt from what would be the first joint of fingers, and from the ends of his wide, bootless feet, and grey, razor-sharp teeth jut up from the lower jaw and out over his upper lip forming a permanent, menacing grin.  His slanted black eyes are set halfway down the front of his flat face with a flared up nose sitting between them, and a single chitinous plate crests up from the base of his skull and extends out over his eyes, shielding them from the harsh rays of Suk-Krath.

That's a nice mdesc -- evocative and not too long. But, why wasn't that character wasn't killed on sight by city guards?  Anything looking like that wandering through any guarded gate (even Red Storm or Tuluk) would have to viewed as hostile -- same as a cloaked raptor. It's less of a mutant dwarf, more of a mutant  armadillo.

Starting to wonder if the PC/NPC/vNPC reactions to some of the more extreme mutants are being fully considered. I actually interacted with that dwarf, without an overtly hostile reaction.  In retrospect, that was a mistake. It would be like talking to a gurth. More likely a city-dweller would run and an experienced hunter would consider it a source of shell and meat.

[FantasyWriter]

Very good point. I never thought about that, to tell you the truth.

1. I can't see any Zalanthan being.... brave/stupid/reckless enough to attack something without knowing what it is.
2. I can only assume the guards would have "questioned" him when he started coming to any guarded civilization, a few times at least.
3. From the guards' point of view, "it" was walking along with the throngs of travelers entering the gates, not charging it and attacking people as cloaked raptors are prone to do.

[FuSoYa]

2. I can only assume the guards would have "questioned" him when he started coming to any guarded civilization, a few times at least.

I would think he would be killed on sight or at least imprisoned until further could be found.  That is a wicked creature you came up with but I would NOT understand seeing him walk around in polite society.

Brandon

[Myrdryn]

The race is the basis for the short description, it's the noun.  It tells a lot about the person (or creature).

Some examples:

Half-giant says: large, strong, has two arms and legs, has two eyes, etc...

Halfling says: very small, has two arms and legs, has two eyes, etc...

Mantis says: insectiod, compound eyes, mandibles, six limbs, exoskeleton, etc.

Elf says: pointy ears, skinny compared to humans, tall, etc

Mutant doesn't have defined characteristics like these.  Mutant while not as ambiguous as 'being', doesn't imply much information other than this being is mutated from something else.

[FantasyWriter]

I would NOT understand seeing him walk around in polite society.

Brandon

He didn't, the only time I recall him entering a city was at the request of (and escorted by) a templar.
I think he traded occasionally in Luir's, but was always facewrapped and cloaked before entering the gates for that very reason.

[Twilight]

Having played with a character that was a mutant where it took me a long time to figure out if he was a mul or a dwarf (lets see, both hairless, both muscular, both have pointy ears)....I have to applaud the change.

[FantasyWriter]

The race is the basis for the short description, it's the noun.  It tells a lot about the person (or creature).

Some examples:

Half-giant says: large, strong, has two arms and legs, has two eyes, etc...

Halfling says: very small, has two arms and legs, has two eyes, etc...

Mantis says: insectiod, compound eyes, mandibles, six limbs, exoskeleton, etc.

Elf says: pointy ears, skinny compared to humans, tall, etc

Mutant doesn't have defined characteristics like these.  Mutant while not as ambiguous as 'being', doesn't imply much information other than this being is mutated from something else.

After reading that, I have to say I understand the change and agree with it.

[Naida]

How about allowing 'mutant' in sdesc, as long as its in conjunction with a recognizable race label?  Its not how I would write one, and I've played a few mutants so far... but it sounds like some people like having it in the sdesc.   If you were 'the tentacled, blue halfling mutant' it would still be clear what you were.  I think being blue and tentacled would be enough for people to know he was a mutant though. 

But suppose then someone had a character that was only subtly mutated, and wanted to have mutant in the sdesc as an indicator that, from a distance, something seemed slightly off - even if you couldn't tell exactly what until you took a closer look (mdesc) and saw their hands and feet were revered from normal (left hand on right side, etc) and they had a third eye in their forehead?  If its just a figure running around a couple rooms away or that walks past too fast for you to take a look at, you might not notice what the details were.. just that something seemed a bit strange.  Then having a label like 'the dark-skinned mutant woman' would tell people they see something strange, without what it was til they take a closer look...

[Thunkkin]

Very good point. I never thought about that, to tell you the truth.

1. I can't see any Zalanthan being.... brave/stupid/reckless enough to attack something without knowing what it is.
2. I can only assume the guards would have "questioned" him when he started coming to any guarded civilization, a few times at least.
3. From the guards' point of view, "it" was walking along with the throngs of travelers entering the gates, not charging it and attacking people as cloaked raptors are prone to do.

Besides, there's one district in this one city somewhere that has lots of "saurian" mutants ambling around.  People with tentacles surrounding their mouths.  Etc.  Don't see why they'd make a big deal of your dwarf for just walking in the street.  Lounging at a bar, however ...

[Qzzrbl]

What about youth?

Or other commonly used keywords?

Can we no longer make, "The short, bright-eyed youth"?

Or "The tall, black-eyed amputee"?

Or any other words on the noun list that doesn't specify race?

[Nyr]

Don't be silly. Stop baiting players and staffers into an argument over such a small issue, please. You know staff position; you know staff policy on it now. You don't have to like it, but we will be adhering to the policy regardless.

[Qzzrbl]

That was actually a legitimate question so that I myself will know.

If mutants have to clarify their race in their sdesc, won't everyone else? Including ones that end with "youth" or any of those others that don't really list their race outright.... I'm seriously curious about this.

I'm really not big on trolling here in the GDB.

[Thunkkin]

For Niamh ---

From the sketch inspired by Torgo's knees:

Joel: ...really huge forearms.
Tom:  ...one big droopy pinky, and I'd drag it behind me.
Crow: ...one buttcheek that was WAY bigger than the other...
Tom:  My head a canker, a big, giant canker, nothing but.
Joel: ...one really big flared nostril and inside would be lots of red matted
hairs.
Crow: An ear that would cover me like a shroud and a thumb the size of a
juggling pin, but not on my hand.
Tom:  Nipples, many sizes, many shapes, some on my back.
Crow: A tongue the size of a sleeping bag and my fingers would fold the other
way...
Tom:  My intestines on top of my head, where I would have to keep them
greased.
Crow: I'd remove my skin, restitch it and wear it as a cardigan.

[Myrdryn]

I think where race is implied, things like 'youth' and 'amputee' are fine.  That is assuming these are humans.

[Qzzrbl]

I think where race is implied, things like 'youth' and 'amputee' are fine.  That is assuming these are humans.

But if they're anything other than human, or breeds, they need to be clarified?

[mansa]

I think where race is implied, things like 'youth' and 'amputee' are fine.  That is assuming these are humans.

But if they're anything other than human, or breeds, they need to be clarified?

Yup.