Maiden

[Voular]

Well we don't have to talk about appearances either. We use words that describe characteristics in our sdesc, maiden could be like one of those no? We have seen "effeminate", "brutish" and "diminutive" amongst dozen others that describe your characteristics as well as your appearance. Maiden could be one of those mix words. I don't understand the problem here, if someone wants to describe their character as a regal looking virgin with submissive tendencies, I think we should be all for it.

[Xeran Van Houten]

You can tell people are virgins by looking at them?

Those arn't appearance traits - they're character traits.

[Delstro]

Well we don't have to talk about appearances either. We use words that describe characteristics in our sdesc, maiden could be like one of those no? We have seen "effeminate", "brutish" and "diminutive" amongst dozen others that describe your characteristics as well as your appearance. Maiden could be one of those mix words. I don't understand the problem here, if someone wants to describe their character as a regal looking virgin with submissive tendencies, I think we should be all for it.

Well, I see no problems with brutish, diminutive, or effeminate because those describe physical traits. Let me use Beauty and the Beast to facilitate my thoughts.
Brutish- Resembling a beast. (The Beast from Beauty and the Beast was brutish because he looked like a cruel person, and he was cruel initially. It turns out he was just jaded.)
Diminutive- Small in size (Such as the father from Beauty and the Beast.)
Effeminate- Have female characteristics as a male (Gaston from Beauty and the Beast, what were those cup sizes? HHH? He had some huge hooters.).
Maidenly/maidenlike- Resembling a virgin in appearance with clean, unscarred skin, young, no rashes of the mouth, etc... (Those triplets from Beauty and the Beast because they looked like maidens, but we know they were not.)

I do see problems with:
Brute- A cruel person (Gaston from the Beauty and the Beast was a brute.)
Maiden- A maid, or virgin (Belle from Beauty and the Beast because she was young, didn't do hard labor, clean, unblemished skin)

The distinction lies in the –ish, –ly, or -like. You can resemble a maiden or a brute, but someone can't know you are a brute/maiden without knowing your personality and had a few extensive experiences with you.

[Voular]

That's a fair point. But again, we have a bunch of NPC and PCs titled differently simply for ease and flavour. Like "street-urchin", "soldier" or "Templar".. I don't think it should make you cringe when you see "the huge brute" step in. In part because we can't have sdesc that run over a certain length so "the huge and tall man draped in a red silken robe perhaps akin to the the one of a templar" isn't possible while "the huge, tall templar" is easier in terms of the game. Just saying that when I see "maiden" I can understand the thought behind picking that word. And things like effeminate and diminutive is not at all up to physical traits - Gaston was effeminate because of his mannerism not because of his huge chest (though I'd describe Gaston as "pampered").

Edit: I retract that about Gaston. He's the epitome of manliness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhG9hKiplfQ

[Delstro]

Fair response. Gaston fits those both versions of the same word accurately.
Just because they are currently the hot topic. What about in the cases of a female being a brute, or a male being a maiden? Entirely possible, but the words themselves can't distinguish between the two. What we can do is:
The long-armed, brutish woman
The short-haired, maidenly man

[Voular]

I don't care - if you can pull it off then sure. Same as "humanoid" or "mutant" or "zombie" or whatever. Just because I am a male, I am going to primarely think of "mutant" as a maleish mutant foremost. Or half-elf or human, they are also gender neutral. I suppose "the bearded, maidenly human" is not likely to be female, if I give it some thought..

I don't know. We play a text medium and to limit your imagination is just silly.

[Delstro]

Exactly Voular. By having Maiden or Brute in an SDesc, it limits the imagination of the readers, much like how you think of most mutants as male and how I think of most brutes as a male and maidens as a female.

[Voular]

Well.. I was saying the opposite. Why not have brute or maiden? It evokes nice images and feelings. It's better than bland sdesc that tells us nothing about the character at all, except that he is tall and has big feet. An "over-all" describing word is better, I think.

[Delstro]

That is easily understandable, but use of brute and maiden doesn't exactly explain anything. There are just too many ways to define those words. What I used to see a lot when I first started playing was that the player would use Brute to describe the overall appearance, and then say the color of hair, color of skin, color of eyes, and that is it. I wouldn't understand what made the PC a brute. Banishing words like those, force the player to define brute instead of forcing other players to assume that the PC just -is-.

[Voular]

Well, that's why we have an app process. Our imms look and approve these words. If "maiden" or "brute" isn't warranted, then they should deny the app?

[Ampere]

We've a 75%+ majority among those who actually care enough to vote.  That's pretty definitive.

[Spoon]

This thread was started four months ago and it hasn't been changed yet - That's pretty definitive. Tell'm, Mick:

the sinewy, hyperactive old man sings "You can't always get what you want!"

[Aaron Goulet]

Well, that's why we have an app process. Our imms look and approve these words. If "maiden" or "brute" isn't warranted, then they should deny the app?

That's what is up for debate.  I think the original purpose of this thread is to demonstrate that most of the playerbase finds the word "maiden" jarring, and to propose that it be removed from the approved sdesc words list.

Four pages later, whether it accomplishes that aim or not, it's hard to say.

[Ampere]

This thread was started four months ago and it hasn't been changed yet - That's pretty definitive. Tell'm, Mick:

the sinewy, hyperactive old man sings "You can't always get what you want!"

Well, this democracy is restricted to those who actually do the work.   Even then, I'm sure it's more a matter of consultation, as opposed to something resembling an actual democratic process.  Beyond all that, I'd bet issues are examined from a perspective of triage. When it comes down to it, who really cares if someone feels the need to use such a narrow noun.  Personally I think the restrictions should be loosened, rather than tightened.  But more than that, I just don't care.

While concessions are occasionally made to the playerbase, this is the imm--administration's game.  They do what they want with it regardless of popular demand.  Sometimes I feel at odds with some of their decisions, but the game is awesome, they've invested the sweat equity, and this gives them right.

[Rhyden]

What Ampere said. Wish I could fit that into my sig

[Aaron Goulet]

While concessions are occasionally made to the playerbase, this is the imm--administration's game.  They do what they want with it regardless of popular demand.  Sometimes I feel at odds with some of their decisions, but the game is awesome, they've invested the sweat equity, and this gives them right.

Having known in the past some of the people who had poured countless hours into the improvement of this game?  Without a doubt.

I still think that the overall purpose of this thread was to somehow demonstrate that this change was desired by most of us, in order to influence a similar discussion among the people who actually do have a say in the matter.  However, after reading the various arguments and counter-arguments, it really all boils down to it being a matter of perception and taste; hardly something worth possibly alienating 25.3% of the voting GDB population.

[Spoon]

From what I see maiden specifies a unmarried woman, pretty much only on the grounds of age (hence the virgin thing). The problem I see is when that description contradicts or masks the PCs nature (like mutant dwarves). So after a certain age maiden should be substituted for another word. I'd like to see a PC go from maiden to woman to old hag.

[path]

I just don't think maiden fits with the gritty style and direction of the game. Maiden makes me think of SOI-style muds. It just doesn't feel right and this is speaking from experience, I've certainly played characters with maiden in the sdesc since 'girl' was taken out. I think chicks in particular get the short end with 'youth'. 

Maiden just feels out of sync with the game world.

[Lizzie]

When I see the word "maiden" I automatically attach it to the word "maidenhead." Which is another word for hymen, which is the thing that virgins have until they're ripped by whoever (or whatever) makes them no longer a maiden.

[FantasyWriter]

When I see the word "maiden" I automatically attach it to the word "maidenhead." Which is another word for hymen, which is the thing that virgins have until they're ripped by whoever (or whatever) makes them no longer a maiden.

Have I told you lately that I love you?

[musashi]

When I see the word maiden I think of an f-me pc. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Reiloth]

When I see the word maiden I think of an f-me pc. Nothing more, nothing less.

mai immerzon ._. Seriously though...I don't have a problem with it. I think if you have a problem with the word maiden in a sdesc...You should just chop the motherfucker up with a bone sword.

[Zoltan]

Whoa, this thread's still alive?

[Potaje]

maiden italy... err... made in Allanak... errr I mean Maiden Tuluk.

[Adhira]

Don't use this forum to bitch about allowed sdesc words.

If you have a real issue mail mud and we'll consider it. Continuing to bitch is bad form and will be considered against the forum intentions.