Instrument/Music Code

Started by MarshallDFX, August 19, 2009, 02:46:01 PM

Desired Intrument Code

No coded instrument skills
Yes coded instrument skills
Don't forget to submit a request for a bump to your seduction resistance skill if you play a Tuluki noble.
Quote from: Gimfalisette
(10:00:49 PM) Gimf: Yes, you sentence? I sentence often.

Quote from: jcljules on August 25, 2009, 07:05:46 PM

The tall, muscular man sings, in sirihish,
"o i wish i was tektolnes,
so i had lots of food,
i wish i was tektolnes,
cause i am in the mood."

The tall, muscular man's playing is beautiful and enchanting.
You feel the need to tip the tall, muscular man.
Someone forces you to applaud for the tall, muscular man.
You give many coins to the tall, muscular man.

:-\

I would tip that guy so hard.
Rickey's Law: People don't want "A story". They want their story.

I disagree with your assessment of the problem, musashi.  Think about it this way, we are playing a MUD, like a D&D game, where performance skills are indeed 'coded'.  Your character has a skill, not you.  Performance skills don't have to be done like crafting skills, which plenty of people like myself wish wasn't an all or nothing thing as well.  There can be a grey-scale result instead of black and white like crafting is now.  As it stands, music is just one big grey area.  I'm fine with people writing their own prose and poetry for the purposes, but I'd like the ability to play instruments as coded in some fashion.  A long-term sort of thing with multiple echos giving indications of general competence and leaving the emoting up to the person playing the bard as far as style goes only.
Quote from: MalifaxisWe need to listen to spawnloser.
Quote from: Reiterationspawnloser knows all

Quote from: SpoonA magicker is kind of like a mousetrap, the fear is the cheese. But this cheese has an AK47.

Its not true that coded skills are all or nothing. Strikes have varring degress of success or failure. As does poisoning, lockpick, ect. Esp. Stealing. That said why not post an example of this music thought and then it would be easier to say why or why not it would work for those playing bards, or have played.
The funny little foreign man

I often hear the jingle to -Riunite on ice- when I read the estate name Reynolte, eve though there ain't no ice in Zalanthas.

August 27, 2009, 07:23:38 PM #54 Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 07:30:38 PM by musashi
For Potaje: For things like poisoning, lock picking, stealing, climbing ... are you sure those have varying degrees of success? From my own experience those skills all seem to do a success/failure/critical failure sort of thing; which to me ... seems like an all or nothing with an added risk of sucking extra hard if you're unlucky.

I have no where near enough knowldge about the combat code to confidently comment on that, but I would imagine that because combat draws upon a huge array of different skills all comming together, you can get quite a different array of results. Since strikes probably use many different skills to get their result, I wouldn't want to compare them to coded actions that use only 1 skill, like crafting, picking locks, sneaking, climbing, and our proposed music skill.

So I still feel like all the skills in game are "all or nothing" in a sense, and assuredly objective in result.

For Spawnloser: I don't believe that to say a MUD is like a D&D game is a correct assessment, because a D&D game has a storyteller always present to make the rest of the world respond according to the situation at hand. A MUD is up and running all the time, often without the support of a storyteller, thus the need for the results of skills and the like to be entirely objective.

In the case of our MUD in particular, do you know of any other performing arts skills that are presently coded into the game? If I should be thinking that a MUD and a D&D game are like one another, and a D&D game has social "skills" then, am I missing them? My character has never been able to get an acting skill ... or a song composition skill ... or a dancing skill ... why don't we have these kinds of things hard coded? And what kind of gain would you see for the game if there were?

One of the proposed benefits stated by the OP was that people are inclined to respect coded proficency in a skill so by having a coded music skill, people would respect a musician who had that skill at a high level.

I contest this. I believe that people respect another character's ability to affect their own character, not the fact of a high level skill itself. For example, Amos respects Malik, because Malik could kill Amos bare handed, even if Amos had a steel sword to defend himself with. Or Amos respects Malik because Malik could sneak into Amos' apartment and take away all of his cool stuff and there's little he could do to stop him. Or maybe Amos respects Malik because Malik can craft up really really nice items for Amos to purchase and then sport around.

To make this point even more clear, Amos is quite likely to respect His Faithful Lord Malik even in spite of the fact that Amos has much higher skills all around than His Faithful Lord Malik does. Why? Because that respect doesn't have so much to do with skills, as it does respect for Malik's ability to impose his will upon Amos, and Templar don't need much in the way of skills to do that if you're inside their city-state.

When talking about respect for coded ability, I feel like it has less to do with the coded ability itself, and way more to do with how the coded ability can affect the other PC's in the world. Having very high combat skills, or crafting skills could get you the respect of some PC's pretty quickly I would imagine. I would not however, say the same for folks with a high ... forage. Or hunting ... or even climb. Why? Because skills like that have considerably less ability to directly impact another PC, so they aren't "respected" quite as much.

A hard coded music skill would likely not "affect" other PC's in any direct, objective fashion, nor would anyone want it to I believe, so ... I don't foresee someone with a high level of the coded music "skill" being respected much for having put the time in to grind it up, so I don't think that the benefits the OP talked about would ever come to pass.
Quote from: Marauder Moe
Oh my god he's still rocking the sandwich.

Quote from: musashi on August 27, 2009, 07:23:38 PM
A hard coded music skill would likely not "affect" other PC's in any direct, objective fashion, nor would anyone want it to I believe, so ... I don't foresee someone with a high level of the coded music "skill" being respected much for having put the time in to grind it up, so I don't think that the benefits the OP talked about would ever come to pass.

In that post, I was primarily just trying to explain why I enjoy the idea of seemingly "pointless" coded skills.  I just like having a third party adjudicator for things.  It gives it validity.  I wasn't really listing that as a main benefit of an instrument code.  The main benefits that I see are listed in my original post.

Quote from: MarshallDFX on August 27, 2009, 07:32:01 PM
In that post, I was primarily just trying to explain why I enjoy the idea of seemingly "pointless" coded skills.  I just like having a third party adjudicator for things.  It gives it validity.  I wasn't really listing that as a main benefit of an instrument code.  The main benefits that I see are listed in my original post.

This ... became really, really REALLY long, and I'm sorry for that.

Would you really like a 3rd party adjudicator to tell you IG what kind of music your PC liked while you were listening to it? I mean ... would you really like a coded ability to send you an echo to let you know if your character thought that musician/actor/dancer's performance was good or bad?

You might, but I really wouldn't. I suppose we can just leave that as a difference of opinion and agree to disagree.

Quote from: MarshallDFX
Benefits:
Roleplaying practice enhanced
Gives another actual coded skill to bards
Prevents instant-master-musicians
Music-teacher profession

For the first benefit, I'm not entirely sure I agree with your premise. You said in your post that for whatever reason, people tend to RP better while they're training up a skill at the same time but ... I'm not sure I agree with that. From my experience PCs are more likely to throw out "just enough RP" to get by and focus mainly on typing in the right syntax as much as they can, when training coded skills because the RP comes second to trying to train the skill up. We have a lot of posts on the GDB about "how much should I emote while I forage" or "what's the right ratio of emote to skill usage for this skill" type threads you can search through. I think most of those threads arose because folks are more likely to emote less, syntax more when training is their primary focus. Not that that makes anyone a twink or a bad roleplayer or anything, I think it's just a human condition; something we're apt to do unless we catch ourselves. My point is I don't agree with the idea that training up a skill while you RP somehow makes the RP better than not. The best RP I've had was always simple human interaction. Like smoking up in your friend's apartment ... being raided ... playing izadri with a blood sucking defiler for your soul ... no skills were being trained during any of those situations and the RP quality was much higher than when I was sparring or doing guard drills or foraging in the woods with a hunting buddy.

Giving another actual coded skill to bards. I think that before you list that as a benefit, you should check with the people who regularly play bards and ask them if that's a skill they'd actually want. If this thread is any indication, most bard playing folks came back with a resounding no. So I don't think that giving a coded skill to a group that doesn't want is a very good benefit.

Prevents instant-master-musicians. To be entirely honest ... I think that this is the meat and potatos of why most people would want a hard coded music skill in the game. This has been brought up several times since I've joined the community, and likely several more times before that. I get the sentiment, I really do. I'm trying to play a hunter and my PC has to suck at their job until they hit 10 days played, so why does this guy playing a bard get to be a really good bard right out of character creation, that's not fair. But keep in mind that the newbie bard who's RP'ing being an awesome drummer or a fantastic guitarist ... ... is still a shitty assassian/merchant/warrior/psion/whatever. I promise. In fact, that newbie bard even sucks at the skills he got from his bard subclass, or whatever other subclass he may have selected. He's going to have to go and grind his coded skills just like everyone else if he wants to later be a part of cool "higher level" storylines and what not. No one is getting a "free pass" by RP'ing the ability to play instruments well. You could walk into a tavern as a new PC and RP being able to read fortunes really well, or dance really well ... some PC's even seem to make a good living whoring. People don't get upset that they didn't RP being terrible at said performances when they first got approved; why do bards alone seem to draw that out of folks? Lastly, I think the whole "we need to prevent insta-master-musicians" thing is a bit of a red herring. I've never actually seen a bard PC try to RP being an insta-master-musician. Most, as has already been said in this thread, pick one instrument they want to be decent with to get the ball rolling ... then they actually RP out being inept at other instruments, and try to better themselves with those other instruments as part of their role-play. I've never seen a trend of people claiming to be able to play everything like a master musician simply because the code wasn't in place to tell them not to. Did this happen at some point in the past? Or is it recent and I'm missing it? Where has this ever occured beyond the rare, quickly discouraged, new player?

Music Teacher Profession. I'm not sure this would come to pass in the way you're thinking either. For example, take a look at the game in its present form. It has lots of coded skills and people with those skills at high levels could probably try to sell themselves off as teachers for folks wishing to learn; but how many PC's do you know who try to make a living as a teacher? How many PC's have you seen try to advertise their skills and bring in students to pay them? If we aren't seeing PC's trying to be professional teachers of skills we're pretty sure everyone is interested in already, like combat skills ... hunting skills ... sneaky skills ... what leads you to believe that a Music Teacher would be a viable profession? I agree that every now and then a student looking to learn an instrument might seek a teacher for lessons, but that happens already. I've done that as a PC who wanted to learn to play, and I've seen others do it as well. I would venture to guess it happens about as often as a student seeks out a teacher for a coded skill (and by seeks out I mean tries to find one independantly, not like, joining a clan you know will train said skill). So, I don't think that making music hard coded would really increase the opportunties for music teachers beyond what they already are.
Quote from: Marauder Moe
Oh my god he's still rocking the sandwich.

Quote from: musashi on August 27, 2009, 07:23:38 PM
For Spawnloser: I don't believe that to say a MUD is like a D&D game is a correct assessment, because a D&D game has a storyteller always present to make the rest of the world respond according to the situation at hand. A MUD is up and running all the time, often without the support of a storyteller, thus the need for the results of skills and the like to be entirely objective.
Where did I say something would be forced on the other players, like you seem to think?  I just want an objective indication of the competence, not how much the audience likes it.  That has everything to do with personal preference.
Quote from: MalifaxisWe need to listen to spawnloser.
Quote from: Reiterationspawnloser knows all

Quote from: SpoonA magicker is kind of like a mousetrap, the fear is the cheese. But this cheese has an AK47.

Quote from: spawnloser on September 02, 2009, 03:41:18 PM
Quote from: musashi on August 27, 2009, 07:23:38 PM
For Spawnloser: I don't believe that to say a MUD is like a D&D game is a correct assessment, because a D&D game has a storyteller always present to make the rest of the world respond according to the situation at hand. A MUD is up and running all the time, often without the support of a storyteller, thus the need for the results of skills and the like to be entirely objective.
Where did I say something would be forced on the other players, like you seem to think?  I just want an objective indication of the competence, not how much the audience likes it.  That has everything to do with personal preference.

If you've ever listened to "edge" or even "12-tone music" of the early 19th century, you might have noticed just how far you can stretch the term "competence" when it comes to appreciating music. I feel that music is something that's just entirely too subjective to have objectivity at all. 12 tone music to me, doesn't even sound like music, it sounds like random notes being struck in a random order ... which I feel any child could do just fine. In fact, if you look at the definition of the 12 tone technique it says: The technique is a means of ensuring that all 12 notes of the chromatic scale are sounded as often as one another in a piece of music while preventing the emphasis of any Since the chromatic scale includes every single note in music as we know it ... you could argue that it is in fact, nothing more than random notes being hit in a random order. To some foks in the early 19th century that was brillant music. To me, it's something a four year old with one hand could manage on a tonka toy keyboard with no practice or experience before hand. I don't even view it as competent music composition, and yet it's an appreciated part of music history. That's how subjective music can be.

But that aside even, given the apparent structure of skill-checks currently, how would you propose such a system could be implemented without being just as bad as crafting?

And by the current apparent structure, I mean that when you try to use a skill, your proficiency is checked ... and you get one of four possible results.

You can't even try to do it.
You critically fail.
You fail.
You succeed.

How could a system like that adequately express how competent a musician is?

I would be really disappointed if a master bard with a maxed out music skill just happened to fail his check and the room was treated to an echo that he was a terrible, terrible musician botching every note in the piece he just tried to play. I've never heard of a professional musician standing up on stage and completely failing at delivering a song he was about to play for his fans; a wrong note or three during the song ... that most fans didn't even really notice, or quickly forgot ... sure, but an entire three minutes of torture to the ear drums by absolutely anyone's standard? When has that happened? And yet I can't see the structure for skills as it currently stands allowing anything but.

I feel like to do music justice, the code supporting it would have to be complex indeed, perhaps more so than the complexity of the combat code ... and for what little gain would be had for doing that, the work that would need to go into it seems to be more trouble than its worth, when just emoting the music has done a fine job thus far.
Quote from: Marauder Moe
Oh my god he's still rocking the sandwich.

I think people are loosing perspective here.  This isn't about forcing PCs to like or dislike someone's music.

Rather, the code would simply reflect the dozens of NPCs and PCs listening. 

I may not pay much attention to the local musicians group that plays at the coffee shop -- but I will take notice if they start to have more and more people listening to their music.  I might start to assume that they're good (even if it's not exactly my favorite)
"The Highlord casts a shadow because he does not want to see skin!" -- Boog

<this space for rent>

I'm not too fond of the idea of coded music skill. I think it's a matter of results that bothers me about it.

With the combat skill, the result is, an injured/dead/incapacitated target. The target is -also- coded to be the beneficiary of the skill.

With the crafting skills, the result is a finished object, or a ruined object (which can end up being losing the item you were working with). The object in question is -also- coded to change, or not change, depending on your level of skill with the craft.

With the riding skill, the result is that you get to point B, or if you fail, you stand still, or get thrown off. The mount is -also- coded to bear the brunt of your skill with riding.

With music, there is no target. Nothing is happening _to_ anything. There is no recipient of the skill, other than the *subjective* ear of the listener. The listener will either enjoy it, not enjoy it, be neutral to it, or run away from it before they have to deal with it at all. They won't *benefit* from it, they won't be *hurt* by it. Nothing will happen to the listener as a result of the music's existence. Nothing new is created, nothing old is harmed.

I'd prefer to leave it up to emotes, because of the subjectivity involved. It isn't up to the musician to decide whether or not the music was any good, it's up to the listener. So there really isn't any way to create a skill that would allow the listener to make that decision, that I can think of.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Quote from: Lizzie on September 04, 2009, 09:15:53 AM
With music, there is no target. Nothing is happening _to_ anything. There is no recipient of the skill, other than the *subjective* ear of the listener. The listener will either enjoy it, not enjoy it, be neutral to it, or run away from it before they have to deal with it at all. They won't *benefit* from it, they won't be *hurt* by it. Nothing will happen to the listener as a result of the music's existence. Nothing new is created, nothing old is harmed.

I'd prefer to leave it up to emotes, because of the subjectivity involved. It isn't up to the musician to decide whether or not the music was any good, it's up to the listener. So there really isn't any way to create a skill that would allow the listener to make that decision, that I can think of.



You're now dangerously talking about is having an issue with creating a rich atmosphere for the game rather than focus on just building up skills.



One of the ideals which sets apart Arm from any ol' hack-n-slash game is that we players value a coded, kick-ass arena match the same as an emoted, well scripted conversation.   Yet you appear to be saying if nothing physical (coded) happens -- than it somehow doesn't/ shouldn't count.   If some player is enjoying role-playing a dream or a roach-race in the Gaj -- so what?   Good for that player!   They certainly shouldn't be  chastised simply because they didn't add anything to _your_ gaming experience.

Further, the _musician_ wouldn't be deciding, the population would.  You know, we players rely on NPC and VNPCs to enhance the game.  That part of the population buys our crafts,  calls out thieves and magickers, etc.   Why the heck can't they appreciate music?


Finally, least I remind everyone that great effort was just made to code POOP.  My guess is that coded poop only really enhances the game for a small portion of the player base --  yet we now have it in game for them to enjoy.  Isn't this really about the same?  A portion of players saying, "Hey, I'd enjoy playing this type of PC if we could do this?
"The Highlord casts a shadow because he does not want to see skin!" -- Boog

<this space for rent>

Quote from: My 2 sids on September 04, 2009, 11:06:56 AM
Finally, least I remind everyone that great effort was just made to code POOP.  My guess is that coded poop only really enhances the game for a small portion of the player base --  yet we now have it in game for them to enjoy.  Isn't this really about the same?  A portion of players saying, "Hey, I'd enjoy playing this type of PC if we could do this?

The difference is that the only opposition to coded poop came from people who thought it was a waste of time. It doesn't really hurt anyone. It adds something, even if nobody appreciates it, to the game. It shouldn't really bother anyone. Instrument code, however, would bother a lot of people.

Some people were saying that it would encourage those who aren't artistically inclined to play a bard. That way even if their songs were lousy, boring or irritating -- the code would say it was good if they trained for long enough or played for enough hours. But honestly, who wants to see lousy, code-generated performances from people who aren't, by their own admission, creative enough to play a bard without this sort of crutch? People have enough of a problem with bards already, and I mean the ones who actually put a lot into it! Imagine how they'd react to boring 'instrument code bards!' With torches and pitchforks, I imagine.

Not to mention I suspect bard PCs would hate this addition. Its basically an insult -- you refuse to roleplay being a lousy musician for as long as we'd like, so we'll force you to. Also, a lot of people play bards and other 'flavor' PCs because they don't have enough time to play to practice skills!

Instrument code would do the following:

  • Scare away those who like playing bards the way they are currently.
  • Annoy people who already find bards boring and jarring with even more boring bards.
  • Stifle creativity and make the subjective objective.
  • Waste time.
  • I would stab people with a rusty knife.
Quote from: Gimfalisette
(10:00:49 PM) Gimf: Yes, you sentence? I sentence often.

Poop bothers me every time it breaks immersion with the "large piles of NPC shit", and "your warbeetle takes a shit during a tense, emote-heavy scene!" occurrences, among many others...

I would far rather it have been forageable and the piles merely added to stableyards & appropriate.

Just sayin'.

Some things are better left uncoded.

Quote from: My 2 sids on September 04, 2009, 12:23:34 AM
I think people are loosing perspective here.  This isn't about forcing PCs to like or dislike someone's music.

Rather, the code would simply reflect the dozens of NPCs and PCs listening. 

Ok, how would it affect them, do you suppose? In what way would you envision the skill working?
Quote from: Marauder Moe
Oh my god he's still rocking the sandwich.

I envision it working the same way any other skill does!!   Players put in their time and effort into creating a dynamic PC for them and others to enjoy!!   


Not every player who plays a combat PC knows much about weapons or fighting,  Not ever player who plays a merchant has a business/marketing degree, not every player who plays a jeweler in game could put together a "My first necklace" kit from Crayola.   And you know what happens?  they watch and learn from the code, attempt to make some good emotes, and they have fun -- and the other players have fun too.


I just see this conversation being directed more and more down a "judge the player's quality".  You know, I've never held a real weapon in my life... but, I sure don't like the implication that if I want to make a Byn or Milita PC that's somehow "insulting" to any Military players?!  Just because I don't have enough expertise to put on some grand emote-feast for your eyes???



Better yet, let's make Barding a high-level Karma-based role!   I mean, that's what you all are really worrying about, right?   Having some "unworthy" player create a PC?  Players come to Arm, play Arm, and crate Arm-based work because _they_ enjoy it.   If someone is coming to Arm just for real-life afformation that they can do something other people cannot --- one change in MUD code isn't going to help that situation.
"The Highlord casts a shadow because he does not want to see skin!" -- Boog

<this space for rent>

Quote from: My 2 sids on September 04, 2009, 12:29:52 PM
Better yet, let's make Barding a high-level Karma-based role!   I mean, that's what you all are really worrying about, right?   Having some "unworthy" player create a PC?  Players come to Arm, play Arm, and crate Arm-based work because _they_ enjoy it.   If someone is coming to Arm just for real-life afformation that they can do something other people cannot --- one change in MUD code isn't going to help that situation.

That's a terrible idea. I'm sure there are players who are excellent leaders, have a bajillion karma and roleplay realistically all the time, who would make terrible bards. By the same token, there are probably newbies who have some skill with rhyme and meter who could make great bards.
Quote from: Gimfalisette
(10:00:49 PM) Gimf: Yes, you sentence? I sentence often.

Quote from: My 2 sids on September 04, 2009, 12:29:52 PM
I just see this conversation being directed more and more down a "judge the player's quality".  You know, I've never held a real weapon in my life... but, I sure don't like the implication that if I want to make a Byn or Milita PC that's somehow "insulting" to any Military players?!  Just because I don't have enough expertise to put on some grand emote-feast for your eyes???

It's not really about player quality, it's about how much work the player puts in. I believe that any ARM player could play a decent, non-boring bard, if s/he was willing to put the work into it. And no, I don't think that grinding coded instrument skill is the right kind of work for a player to put in. Rather, players should be researching bards here on the GDB; reading all the relevant docs; looking through the player submissions for material; asking more experienced players how to play a bard; thinking about what the playerbase has previously expressed they do/don't like about bards; writing and practicing emotes, songs, poems, and stories; and so on. Do all of that, and any of you can play a decent bard, truly.

When I play a bard, I put in many, MANY long hours of work offline simply in order to prepare a good presentation for when I get back in game. I am not willing to trade that offline work for simply more hours of coded skill grinding, which adds absolutely nothing to the world.
Quote from: Vanth on February 13, 2008, 05:27:50 PM
I'm gonna go all Gimfalisette on you guys and lay down some numbers.

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 04, 2009, 01:39:50 PM
When I play a bard, I put in many, MANY long hours of work offline simply in order to prepare a good presentation for when I get back in game. I am not willing to trade that offline work for simply more hours of coded skill grinding, which adds absolutely nothing to the world.

Yep. Same for me.   I even put in lots of work offline for bards who really aren't very good -- who flub up their instrument, forget words of their piece, etc.  Though they may not be perfect bards, my presentation of their work is still good and entertaining.
Quote from: J S BachIf it ain't baroque, don't fix it.

Exactly my point though.   You all want to put in extra long time offline to write poetry and songs great.  Wonderful even.   But, you don't get any gold stars for that -- I certainly don't see why you all should covet a specific career all to yourselves.

We're not talking about all bardic activities anyways -- we're talking about instrument play.
"The Highlord casts a shadow because he does not want to see skin!" -- Boog

<this space for rent>

Quote from: My 2 sids on September 05, 2009, 06:35:21 AM
I certainly don't see why you all should covet a specific career all to yourselves.

::) Yes, that's exactly what we're trying to do.
Quote from: Vanth on February 13, 2008, 05:27:50 PM
I'm gonna go all Gimfalisette on you guys and lay down some numbers.

It appears to me that people are confusing a coded skill for instrument play with overall performance ability and how other characters percieve the performance based upon it.
Skill with an instrument is more a tangible thing than an outsider's perception. You can hear someone play an instrument and tell whether or not they are skilled with it. Just because the code says that someone plays their instrument well, it does not mean you are required to like their overall performance. You may not like their lyrics, their singing as a whole or the specific instrument they are playing.

Noone is suggesting that -everything- for rp'ing performances be coded. Just instrument skill. You would still be just as free to rp your performing character in every other way purely how you choose. You would just have a bit more framework in regards to playing instruments.

I think I said it before and I'm gonna say it again. The whole turnoff about performance pcs is that -every- bit of it is up to the player, how well they play an instrument, how well they sing, etc. I feel this way about them when others play them, and when I play them as well. I don't think there's anything unfair about wanting to have just this one part become a coded skill. If this were done, I would be more inclined to play a pc that played an instrument. I would feel less...cheated I suppose, when I see performance pcs going about their business.

It would also stop instrument-playing pcs from being good at whatever instrument they pick up without having earned it.
Quote from: Fnord on November 27, 2010, 01:55:19 PM
May the fap be with you, always. ;D

I just don't see what benefit there is, to coded instrument skill. What will it -give- to the game? What echo will the observer see? So far I haven't seen a single example of anyone explaining how they intend for this to work. In my mind, this is what I would see, if I was watching as an audience member:

>The tressy-tressed bard begins to play a lute.
>The tressy-tressed bard sings, in sirihish,
"Oh, I'm playin a lute, yeah yeah
it's resting between my leggins
I'm doin a great job, yeah yeah,
so don't be givin me no eggins"

>The tressy-tressed bard fails miserably, breaking the strings of her lute and taking several rotten pieces of fruit to the face.

>The tressy-tressed bard begins to play a lute.
>The tressy-tressed bard sings some more.
>Without breaking any strings, the tressy-tressed bard manages to play the lute.

>The tressy-tressed bard begins to play a lute.
>The tressy-tressed bard doesn't emote this time because she's just practicing in front of a couple of close friends who are busy spam-crafting while their players read the GDB.
>Without breaking any strings, the tressy-tressed bard manages to play the lute.

>The tressy-tressed bard begins to play a lute.
>The tressy-tressed bard's player IMs a few people while she waits for the success message.
>The tressy-tressed bard fails miserably, breaking the strings of her lute and taking several rotten pieces of fruit to the face.

>The tressy-tressed bard puts a lute in a large agafari chest.

That's what I see, in my head. And that is why I object vehemently to coding it. I can't see ANY benefit at all to coding instrument skill and can see lots of wasted effort on something that can only promote spammage and twinkery, with no actual benefit to the game.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

>play lute

The prissy, flaxen-haired woman begins playing the lute, plucking the strings awkwardly.

(ldesc is changed to reflect this to those who were not present when she started)

The prissy, flaxen-haired woman is here, playing a lute awkwardly.

(the player, can then sing however they choose, can rp around the coded feedback that their pc simply isn't that skilled with the instrument yet)

It would be more than just a pass or fail, there could be five to six differing echoes to display several different levels of skill at playing the instrument. The trick is to keep the echoes so that they display a more loose definition of the skill level than saying things too specifically so that there is still plenty of room for the player to roleplay within that framework.
How awkwardly in this example would still be left up to the player to roleplay. Is it awkward because she keeps missing notes, or because her timing is off? Is it awkward sounding because she's still learning to get the lute in tune? What specifically makes it awkward sounding would be up to the player.
Quote from: Fnord on November 27, 2010, 01:55:19 PM
May the fap be with you, always. ;D

Not that I have ever enjoyed text-based musical performances in the past..since I haven't..but if this were implemented, I would make a very decisive effort to not attend any, ever again.

The prissy, flaxen-haired woman begins playing the lute, plucking the strings awkwardly.

The prissy, flaxen-haired woman emotes a bunch of times, they all look however they look, but her -player- is more concerned with the coded benefit than the actual performance. And so, as soon as she receives an echo back letting her know that the code is finished with her "beginning to play the lute," everyone sees:

The prissy, flaxen-haired woman begins playing the lute, plucking the strings awkwardly.

The prissy, flaxen-haired woman emotes some more. And she's still more concerned with the code than impressing anyone with her creativity. And so..

The prissy, flaxen-haired woman begins playing the lute, plucking the strings awkwardly.

A dozen people leave the performance.

The prissy, flaxen-haired woman begins playing the lute, plucking the strings awkwardly.

No thanks.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.