Casual Game Play

[Gimfalisette]

staggerlee, I would probably be interested in playing a role like that. I don't think I'd want it designed to be restrictive to the point of having to stay in the clan area, though; because while the primary focus would be to enhance the clan, I can see a role like that enhancing other corners of the gameworld as there is opportunity, as well. What I mean is, I wouldn't want such a role to be effectively turned into yet another iso-clan role. (Been there, done that, it can be really really difficult to play and enjoy.)

But yeah, overall, roles of that kind and other tools to enhance/ease the basics of gameplay might make a real difference for casual players and the game overall.

LoD, I assume you're promoting the above roles as being ones where skill boosts have been given. Because there are a few of those on there that are not going to be valuable to other players, out of the box, without skill boosts.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how what you're suggesting differs from all the prior advice to "change your playstyle, not the game."

[staggerlee]

staggerlee, I would probably be interested in playing a role like that. I don't think I'd want it designed to be restrictive to the point of having to stay in the clan area, though; because while the primary focus would be to enhance the clan, I can see a role like that enhancing other corners of the gameworld as there is opportunity, as well. What I mean is, I wouldn't want such a role to be effectively turned into yet another iso-clan role. (Been there, done that, it can be really really difficult to play and enjoy.)

Sure well, the details are of course fairly irrelevant.

LoD, I assume you're promoting the above roles as being ones where skill boosts have been given. Because there are a few of those on there that are not going to be valuable to other players, out of the box, without skill boosts.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how what you're suggesting differs from all the prior advice to "change your playstyle, not the game."

I think LoD's ideas would be great if they were fit into the structure of staff sponsorship that I've described. The nice thing about being in a clan is that you have access to clan documentation, staff, forums and other ooc tools to add legitimacy to the role and ease communication with other players. But if the staff wanted those issues could be ironed out.

[LoD]

LoD, I assume you're promoting the above roles as being ones where skill boosts have been given. Because there are a few of those on there that are not going to be valuable to other players, out of the box, without skill boosts.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how what you're suggesting differs from all the prior advice to "change your playstyle, not the game."

Some of the roles I mentioned can provide a service immediately out of the box due to the nature of the skills involved, or at least begin working toward the service in a fairly quick fashion.  Knowing how long it -doesn't- take to master some of the skills involved, it would be something almost anyone could do, even playing only 1 hour/day.  Even the ones that require 'some' skill could be done at a reasonable level within a RL week's worth of 1-hour playing stints.

And, to stand behind my word, if you don't believe they are possible - I will personally choose one of the roles on my list and play it with only 1 hour per day and report the results when it's over.

-LoD

[staggerlee]

LoD, I assume you're promoting the above roles as being ones where skill boosts have been given. Because there are a few of those on there that are not going to be valuable to other players, out of the box, without skill boosts.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how what you're suggesting differs from all the prior advice to "change your playstyle, not the game."

Some of the roles I mentioned can provide a service immediately out of the box due to the nature of the skills involved, or at least begin working toward the service in a fairly quick fashion.  Knowing how long it -doesn't- take to master some of the skills involved, it would be something almost anyone could do, even playing only 1 hour/day.  Even the ones that require 'some' skill could be done at a reasonable level within a RL week's worth of 1-hour playing stints.

And, to stand behind my word, if you don't believe they are possible - I will personally choose one of the roles on my list and play it with only 1 hour per day and report the results when it's over.

-LoD

You're focusing on giving advanced players that are suddenly short on playtime roles to get into. That's fine on a personal level, and has probably worked great for you and a couple other people. But it's a personal solution and fairly difficult to actually pull off with ease, it requires advanced knowledge and skills of how to manipulate the game.

I'm looking for solutions that will encourage players with lower playtimes as a group to contribute to the game and have fun... on a structural level. Your solution is fine, but it's very individualized and not focused on appeal or accessibility to the average player.

[LoD]

You're focusing on giving advanced players that are suddenly short on playtime roles to get into. That's fine on a personal level, and has probably worked great for you and a couple other people. But it's a personal solution and fairly difficult to actually pull off with ease, it requires advanced knowledge and skills of how to manipulate the game.

I'm looking for solutions that will encourage players with lower playtimes as a group to contribute to the game and have fun... on a structural level. Your solution is fine, but it's very individualized and not focused on appeal or accessibility to the average player.

The most vocal group behind casual game play, at least in these discussions and other previous threads, fall directly into the category of player for whom my suggestions would work.  There have been several other suggestions made, but it seems like the answer keeps coming back, "I wouldn't have fun doing that, or that wouldn't work for me."  I was trying to provide some examples that would work for you since there have been a wealth of suggestions made for more general improvements.

I fail to see why suggestions cannot be made for varied levels of experience in the game since not all casual players are going to be novices or newbies -- I would even wager that the bulk of our would-be casual players fall into the more experienced category than the less experienced category.

-LoD

[staggerlee]

You're focusing on giving advanced players that are suddenly short on playtime roles to get into. That's fine on a personal level, and has probably worked great for you and a couple other people. But it's a personal solution and fairly difficult to actually pull off with ease, it requires advanced knowledge and skills of how to manipulate the game.

I'm looking for solutions that will encourage players with lower playtimes as a group to contribute to the game and have fun... on a structural level. Your solution is fine, but it's very individualized and not focused on appeal or accessibility to the average player.

The most vocal group behind casual game play, at least in these discussions and other previous threads, fall directly into the category of player for whom my suggestions would work.  There have been several other suggestions made, but it seems like the answer keeps coming back, "I wouldn't have fun doing that, or that wouldn't work for me."  I was trying to provide some examples that would work for you since there have been a wealth of suggestions made for more general improvements.

I fail to see why suggestions cannot be made for varied levels of experience in the game since not all casual players are going to be novices or newbies -- in fact, I would likely wager that the bulk of our would-be casual players fall into the more experienced category than the less experienced category.

-LoD

The vocal group is the minority. Most casual players just vanish quietly away. A solution needs to address the majority, not the stubborn few that continue to read the gdb and post with some vehemence. (Myself, Gimf, etc.) We're hardly normal.

Again, I'm not saying that your ideas don't have merit, just that they're so individualized and advanced that they fail to address the root of the problem. They're all great ideas,  they just don't contribute much toward solving the underlying problem.

And actually, as I said earlier, I think that your ideas would work extremely well inside the structure I proposed. Our ideas ain't mutually exclusive.

[Gimfalisette]

The vocal group is the minority. Most casual players just vanish quietly away. A solution needs to address the majority, not the stubborn few that continue to read the gdb and post with some vehemence. (Myself, Gimf, etc.) We're hardly normal.

Exactly. ARM needs a systems approach to the ongoing issue of casual play, not more of the same "Here's how to make it work for you, the advanced player."

I mean--since I played a Dasari noble once upon a time and was able to extensively document available herbs and how to make various potions and poisons, and what they do and so on--I could play an apothecary very handily, from the knowledge perspective. But that's advanced stuff, and I needed staff support to achieve what I did.

And then, there are other roles on your list that I could not perform, as I'm not nearly advanced enough as a player to do so.

"Solutions" that rely primarily on the personal experience and expertise of the player are not solutions to this problem at all.

[aruna]

The vocal group is the minority. Most casual players just vanish quietly away. A solution needs to address the majority, not the stubborn few that continue to read the gdb and post with some vehemence.

I love the idea of specific, restrictive staff-sponsored roles for casual experienced players, but I'm curious to know how you think they'll benefit newbie casual players. Skill-boosted roles especially are much more likely to go to veterans than newbies. Drop the skill boosts, and you still have Arm's steep learning curve, the chargen process, and the karma system, which I can't help but feel make the "casual newbie" an oxymoron. We all know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn the ropes here.

[staggerlee]

The vocal group is the minority. Most casual players just vanish quietly away. A solution needs to address the majority, not the stubborn few that continue to read the gdb and post with some vehemence.

I love the idea of specific, restrictive staff-sponsored roles for casual experienced players, but I'm curious to know how you think they'll benefit newbie casual players. Skill-boosted roles especially are much more likely to go to veterans than newbies. Drop the skill boosts, and you still have Arm's steep learning curve, the chargen process, and the karma system, which I can't help but feel make the "casual newbie" an oxymoron. We all know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn the ropes here.

You may be right... it would be extremely hard to tailor roles toward people that haven't learned the game yet to some extent. I'd welcome any ideas that anyone else had on the subject though!

I guess newbie might be a poor choice of word, semi-experienced could be worked with though if the roles were designed right. Grabbing the continued interest of players before they drift off.

[Delstro]

I think one good option is to open up the gladiators again.
As for casual players being given some advantage to level up at the same rate as someone that plays 4-5 hours a day? I don't think so, it would make me jaded if my 4-5 hours were wasted time.

I am a casual player and LOD's suggestions work well for me, I have been doing some version of them for a while. As a casual player, you wont be able to be the star player. It is time you be a benchwarmer and provide the details to Armageddon that catch the attention of the NOOBs. The little roles are the roles that caught me and it is the little roles that will catch others. I think it is called "depth."

If I missed what this thread is about, then IDK. I am just seeing an arguement go in endless circles here with suggestions being put forth and stopped because they don't solve the problem. The problem is that the player doesn't play enough. Play more and all your problems will be solved, or don't play more and don't worry so much about progression in skills and world changing goals as you worry about how your character interacts with the various races, creeds, and environmental effects.

[staggerlee]

I think one good option is to open up the gladiators again.

This is precisely the sort of role that could be fit into the structure of staff sponsored roles a few of us have discussed!

[jcljules]

I think one good option is to open up the gladiators again.

This is precisely the sort of role that could be fit into the structure of staff sponsored roles a few of us have discussed!

This is a great idea.

[Synthesis]

Much of the problem with skill advancement could probably be taken care of if skill timers counted down while offline.

Then casual players wouldn't be stuck wasting (I use this solely with respect to skill advancement) every other hour they log in.

Or you could do some sort of login check vs. skill log system:  if it's been more than 3-5 (or whatever) days since your character's last login, you get a random chance (based on time since last login) to get a small boost to a skill you actually used during your last session.  In fact, if you coded the % chance to increase with time-since-last-login, you wouldn't have to put a "minimum-time-since-last-login" restriction on it:  just code it such that 24 hours yields a very small % chance to increase, with a steady rise up to the point where 5 or 7 days would be pretty much guaranteed.

The reasoning being: the skills you used during the last session are probably indicative of what your character's "daily routine" is, and since they would've been performing that "daily routine" during the week you didn't log in, they really ought to be marginally better at it.  Then you could set a cap such that this system would no longer award points to skills that are already at 75% of the maximum for that particular guild.

I think this could be adjusted such that someone who logs in only 5 times during a month is at least half as good as someone who logs in 25 times during a month, instead of incomparably worse.  A leveling of the playing field between high-timers and low-timers.

Could it be gamed? Sure:  you could log in and use exactly one skill during the time, and then log out for a week and guarantee that that skill was increased...but I think this would be a useful strategy for so few skills that it wouldn't really be a problem.  In fact, you could put restrictions on certain skills (trap, poisoning, backstab, sap, etc.) such that they wouldn't be "participants" in the system.

[brytta.leofa]

Gladiators were done as a second (but highly restricted?) character in the Old Days, weren't they?

I have to wonder if having that option wouldn't be a huge relief not only to casual players, but also to people in very long-lived roles. 

Another way to bill it would be as a good way for newbies to experience a little snapshot of the game: "If you want to get an idea for what Armageddon's all about, log on Saturday between 1-2 PM GMT-6.  Newbie helpers will be standing by, and you'll get to play a pre-made, short-lived role as a condemned criminal."

[Synthesis]

Gladiators were done as a second (but highly restricted?) character in the Old Days, weren't they?

I have to wonder if having that option wouldn't be a huge relief not only to casual players, but also to people in very long-lived roles. 

Another way to bill it would be as a good way for newbies to experience a little snapshot of the game: "If you want to get an idea for what Armageddon's all about, log on Saturday between 1-2 PM GMT-6.  Newbie helpers will be standing by, and you'll get to play a pre-made, short-lived role as a condemned criminal."

Nobody really wants to see newbs fumbling about with emotes in the middle of the Arena.

The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
     "emote looks aroul w"

The tall, muscular man looks arouooc did that look right 2 u?

[Gimfalisette]

The tall, muscular man exclaims, in sirihish:
     "u cant kill me the people will rise up against, you, u are tyrants!"

Yeah, though I love the idea of being able to throw newbs into exhiliarating, quick tastes of Crackageddon, a gladiator role doesn't seem like the place. Even there, a player needs a good sense of the docs and the system to be able to do it adequately.

[jcljules]

The tall, muscular man exclaims, in sirihish:
     "i am spartacus"

[brytta.leofa]

The short, muscular dwarf shouts, in northern-accented sirihish,
  "FREEEEEEEDOOOOOM!"

You guys. Yeah, I guess not.

[Morgenes]

Much of the problem with skill advancement could probably be taken care of if skill timers counted down while offline.

...

Note, this post makes an assumption that skill timers work this way in Armageddon.  We will not say how it specifically works, but suffice it to say that based on the fact that I am posting this, I might be implying that this may be a false assumption.

[staggerlee]

Much of the problem with skill advancement could probably be taken care of if skill timers counted down while offline.

...

Note, this post makes an assumption that skill timers work this way in Armageddon.  We will not say how it specifically works, but suffice it to say that based on the fact that I am posting this, I might be implying that this may be a false assumption.

To be totally honest, skill advancement is the least of my worries with casual characters.

[staggerlee]

   
I'm no Dasari, but I'm a pretty fungi
« on: Today at 09:07:22 AM »
   
We are going to open up another role in House Dasari.

House Dasari:  In Brief
Quote
Dasari enjoy experimenting with everything: they use their peculiar affinity for herbs and herbal lore, poisons and poison lore, and an arcane understanding of medicine to create bizarre concoctions and do interesting things to living matter. Their tactics are, more often than not, effective for healing and developing medicinal solutions, and they teach a large number of healers and apothecaries within Gol Krathu. Their knowledge of such things is considered to be second to none, as they have gone (and continue to go) to extensive lengths to collect, catalog, and experiment with most of the regional flora; but many in the house could be considered to be "warped."

Dasari has established a niche for itself and as its services grow in need, so do its influences. Dasari maintains relationships with both Orders of the Templarate who request the assistance of the House in many of their endeavors beyond the Scaien Walls.

Appearance - The women are notorious for being ample in chest and hip, and the men tend toward a portly build as well, both by nature and their luxurious lifestyles. Hair colors tend toward red or the middle ranges of brown and blonde, with almost all family members having a tint of red in their hair whatever its shade. Nearly all Dasari nobles, regardless of gender, use herbal-based perfumes and cosmetics to enhance their appearance. In short, they are one of the most civilized houses in Gol Krathu by outward appearance.

The philosophy of the house is always to find out new things. New experiments. New plants. New concoctions. New effects. New studies.

The role we're looking for:  a noble in the Medical Branch.  Specifically, we're looking for someone interested in starting out as an Archivist.
Archivist:  Someone that records the findings of both physicians and herbalists, heads research projects, collect notes, and maintains and updates the House library.

Send applications to tuluki_nobles@armageddon.org.

Include the following:

    * Account name
    * GDB account name
    * Name of your proposed character
    * Description of your proposed character
    * Background of your proposed character
          o If you are not very familiar with the House you are applying for, we can provide some guidance, but just keep it vague if you're unsure.  You can revise the background assuming you are approved and are given access to the documentation.

    * Your usual playtimes and your expectations of future playtimes
    * How familiar are you with Tuluk and Tuluki politics?  Pick a letter and explain.
          o A. Very Familiar (I make up a new Tuluki parting phrase every RL day that is some variation of "walk in/on/around His _____," and I know each House like the back of my hand--which, of course, has a seven-pronged star on it.)
          o B. Familiar (I can find my way around Tuluk and know, in general, what is going on with the Houses, but am not too familiar with the internal affairs of each one.)
          o C. Slightly Familiar (I know where the Sanctuary is and I know that there aren't any gemmers and that they hate magick, but who do I bow to?)
          o D.  Not Familiar (Striasiri?  I used to own a '98 Dodge Striasiri.)
          o E. Other (explain)

      Please get your applications in by 11:59 PM EST on Friday, August 21.

This is amazingly cool. I don't know what kind of playtime the staff are hoping for or if this is on topic here, but it's exactly the kind of role I'd like to see more of! Again, I don't know what the staff hope for but I could see it being a lower time commitment than many roles.

Reading that advert made me all weak in the knees.

*swoon*

[Synthesis]

Much of the problem with skill advancement could probably be taken care of if skill timers counted down while offline.

...

Note, this post makes an assumption that skill timers work this way in Armageddon.  We will not say how it specifically works, but suffice it to say that based on the fact that I am posting this, I might be implying that this may be a false assumption.

To be totally honest, skill advancement is the least of my worries with casual characters.

I brought it up because skill advancement is the most readily apparent achievement in terms of character development, especially since casual players won't have the time and ability to develop their character through numerous interpersonal relationships.  If a casual player is achievement-oriented at all, chances are that skills will be either the primary basis for a sense of accomplishment, or will be necessary to the achievement of other accomplishments (coins, gear, etc.).

[solera]

I was going to wait till I had time to read to the end of this thread, but its eating into my 1 hour so I will get this off now.
It is possible to survive in Arm on 1 hour a day if you are content to be a mediocrity ie to be poor, to never excel.  
Dreams are more important than goals and your occupation, if you have one, is a lesser strand in your weaving.  The bonds or friendship are more important to you who have few, than your friends who have many.  And you may miss out on enemies.
You play to a different rythmn, literally one day at a time.  Maybe you are more aware  of the turning weeks and months. And longevity is a bonus.
Thinking back to my life time bynner, she was always poor (and weak) because I couldn't go on many contracts. It was mainly a social role I guess.  But she was involved in heaps of plots that noone else was, because they were all in her head, well most of them. I found it a very satisfying years play, I think she had 20 days on her. Still plenty of time to make strong relationships.
But still , I have never known anything better.
I would endorse the idea of a "messenger". Yes please.
Gotta go, past time I was back under my rock.

PS There are some exciting suggestions in this thread!

[Synthesis]

I was going to wait till I had time to read to the end of this thread, but its eating into my 1 hour so I will get this off now.
It is possible to survive in Arm on 1 hour a day if you are content to be a mediocrity ie to be poor, to never exell. 
Dreams are more important than goals and your occupation, if you have one is a lesser strand in your weaving.  The bonds or friendship are more important to you who have few, than your friends who have many.  And you may miss out on enemies.
You play to a different rythmn, literally one day at a time.  Maybe you are more aware than of the turning weeks and months. And longevity is a bonus.
Thinking back to my life time bynner, she was always poor (and weak) because I couldn't go on many contracts. Iy was mainly a social role I guess.  But she was involved in heaps of plots that noone else was, because they were all in her head, well most of them. I found it a very satisfying years play, I think she had 20 hours on her. Still plenty of time to make strong relationships.
But still , I have never known anything better.
I would endorse the idea of a "messenger". Yes please.
Gotta go, past time I was back under my rock.

The point is to make casual play entertaining for a broader portion of the current and potential playerbase, not merely for those saints who can find inner enjoyment and tranquility in being perma-newbs.

[LoD]

In addition to exploring ways to provide viable roles to casual players, it makes sense to also investigate ways to make the skill grind less of an arduous and difficult task -- especially in certain areas.

I know one of those areas has always been in the area of sparring.  There are no communal sparring areas within either city-state that independents, off-peak players, or other such folks could go to learn their trade.  Most people have to choose between fighting critters outdoors, finding a secluded building, or choosing a remote area of the city.  I think a far better use of space and planning would be to create a communal fighting area that accepted annual or lifetime memberships from players and would simply provide space where players could train together should they wish.

> Members of different clans could still find training partners if their play-times don't seem to align with the other clan mates.
> Independents could train and practice with one another without resorting to strange or unrealistic choices.
> Some PC's might even take up roles as an instructor or teacher, and hang around nearby offering their services to aspiring fighters.
> Mercenaries could likely ply their trade and use the area as a way of recruiting new men or even finding potential work.
> Merchants and employers might benefit from being able to have a consolidated place where "good fighting men/women" were located.

Now, I intend for this to be perceived simply as a suggestion that could improve one small facet of the game for players with combat-oriented characters that have limited hours, off-peak schedules, or a dislike for clan life.

-LoD