Casual Game Play

[Thunkkin]

Great post, Musashi.

[Twilight]

For my suggestion, in my head at least, it went more like this:

Say someone wants to be a tailor.  They want to make enough sid doing tailoring to be able to meet some minimum needs, and spend the rest of the time socializing, mudsexing and getting involved in what is going on, to the extent that they can.  Lets say they have an hour a day, five to seven days a week to play.  Currently, it would take them some amount of time to where they could realistically play out the role they wanted, someone who meets the basic needs of life through tailoring.  Despite the fact that in their background, they've been tailoring for twenty years or whatever.  This amount of time would be based on their ability to work their craft and fund their craft.  Some would feel the time spent doing so was at the expense of the RP they could have been doing during this time.

I'm going to throw out that it might take a person a month or longer to get to where they wanted to be in the first place.  It might take another player three to four days to get to that same point.

Adding some mechanism to step into a role that is able to support a player is, IMHO, one of the things that could lessen some of the other issues casual players face.  Obviously, supporting them financially (beyond coded "jobs" which can be limiting), but supporting their chosen role in other ways as well (e.g. being able to steal as an elf, which can impact the esteem in which your elf is held).  By decreasing the time practicing a craft and time spent to financially support that...to get to a place you can financially support yourself in your chosen role, you free up time that can be used to address other issues brought up here, like getting involved.  Heck, having some skill in something, whether it be making clothes or knowing how to fight a little better, can help with getting involved.

I meant this to be concise, but I seem to be rambling on now.  I guess, to me, what is important is for casual players being able to step into the roles more quickly (in terms of hours played with the character), including the ones which may take a small amount of skill to pull off.

[Twilight]

When talking about the grind, keep in mind that 1 day of play on a character can easily take a RL month, or more, for the type of casual player that has been mentioned to rack up.

And the Byn used to have a board outside the compound, long ago.  There were very few messages on it.

[FantasyWriter]

I would like very much for players who are less able to play the game -not- be given advantage over those who are.

If you can only play one or two hours a day, choose a role that can be well played at one or two hours a day.
Especially where leadership roles are concerned... there is nothing more frustrating in the world then never being able to find leader PCs for your clan or other clans that you or your clan are involved with.

Don't app a noble if you can only play one day a week.
Don't app a GMH head if you are can't stay on long enough for a RL hour long meeting to discuss a plot.

There are sooooooooooooo many ways to enjoy this game.
If you play style doesn't fit the role you want, it's not the game's fault.  Choose another role.

[Synthesis]

I've just recently moved into the "casual game play" category.

I used to be able to spend 8-10 hours a day to the game because I could ace even upper-division undergraduate coursework without investing too much effort.  Now, I have two children and what amounts to a full-time job, and I can only log in maybe an hour or two a week.  Some observations and random thoughts:

1. IC time restrictions make sense, but they're hell on trying to get anything done.  If I log in and it's already high sun, I might as well log right back out, because high sun - dusk isn't enough time to get anything useful done, and if I wait until dawn, I'll only have until the next high sun to finish what I'm doing and log out.

2. Trying to network is impossible, outside of your clan.  Since the character turnover rate is so high, when I visit the bars, I only recognize a handful of old PCs who haven't bit the dust yet.  These PCs are already involved in whatever they're involved with, so I basically have no reason to talk to them.  The others come and go, but by the time I run into them, it seems like they've already chosen whatever path they're going to go down.

3. I suspect that skill progression will come to a grinding halt. While I can't say for certain what exactly the mechanics are, since they probably vary from skill to skill, having only 2 hours a week means only 100 or so hours a year.  That's about 5 days playtime in a YEAR.  It takes 5 days of playtime to break "utter newb" status even with dedicated powergaming,  unless your wisdom is off the charts. 

4.  Since magickers progress much more quickly than mundane guilds, and they have the benefit of being able to practice their spells pretty much whenever they want, my initial suspicion is that these guilds will be much more conducive to casual play.

5. Not being able to get anything done severely impacts the enjoyability of the game.  I'd say the vast majority of the enjoyment I get is from accomplishing short-term goals, whether that's buying a set of gear or branching a skill, or whatever.  So far, I haven't been able to do much more than log in and look around for a bit before logging back out.  Even interactions with my clan have been a bit unsatisfying, because I have to do everything hurriedly, given that I'm essentially "on the clock" and it's looming over my shoulder every moment.

6. I'm barely any use at all in any sort of leadership position, because I'm never around, and even though I'm probably near-maxed in my guild, I don't run into anyone frequently enough to make a difference in training or on missions and whatnot.

7. The knowledge that I probably won't get anything useful accomplished is a very large contributing factor in my decisions regarding whether or not to log in.

[musashi]

When talking about the grind, keep in mind that 1 day of play on a character can easily take a RL month, or more, for the type of casual player that has been mentioned to rack up.

And the Byn used to have a board outside the compound, long ago.  There were very few messages on it.

To your first point, it's been my experience that by about 6 hours played (a week or so in terms of people with just an hour a day) all of my characters have advanced at least enough to sustain themselves. By that, I mean that my rangers have had a little stretch of turf that they've learned how o hunt/greb in, and they have the basic tools and equipment needed to do their thing; while my crafters have figured out how to either greb for, or find the money to buy componenants for the things they're interested in making, and they usually have a little apartment in the crime ridden cheap section of town.

You mentioned in your post above as an example, a person who wanted to play a tailor who made enough money to live off tailoring and spent most of their time socializing. To me, that sounds a bit like a special application, because it seems to be saying: a person who parachutes into the game at a higher starting level of profeciency than other people, and is already set up with a sustainable lifestyle.

And please don't think that I'm trying to knock it. I'm honestly completely cool with that, I would hope that staff would be completely cool with it as well ... just use one of your 3 a year special applications to have yourself set up.

But part of being a normal character is starting out at the bottom of the wrung where all the other normal characters start out at, and I think people have to app their back stories accordingly. So if you know you aren't going to be a special app character with higher starting skills, then putting in your background that your PC has been doing something for 20 years, and then being upset that the skills don't reflect that once you get in game strikes me as setting yourself up for failure. How much time you have a day to play completely beside the point.

Some interesting stories I've heard from players who wanted to app older aged, non-special app characters, turned out to be things like: "I used to be in the Byn back in the day ... spent most of my 'sid on whores and booze. Too old now, so I'm learning to sew clothing."

Or: "I grebbed most of my life, just living hand to mouth. May have had a child or two somewhere along the line, but I never really saw the mothers again. Then the droughts came and the price of water went up, no one could afford to drink. I thought I was going to die, and then something inside me just, broke, and water started seeping out of my skin. I thought I was dieing but, it wasn't sweat it was, water ... pure, cool, drinking water. Why did this have to happen to me!? I'd rather be dead!

Stories like that explain why a character advanced in years is not advanced in skill-sets, and I feel like if you're making a non-special app character, the responsibility is on you to make the background fit the in game conditions that you already know are going to be applied to you when you're approved.

But again, if folks want to jump into the game ahead of where other normal characters would jump in at, I think they should be freely allowed to do so, via the special app process. I think that's why it's there.

To your second point, about the Byn board. I think that how many messages were left on it, is not really important. What strikes me as more important would be, of those messages, how many were replied to and aided the players who left them there? If the answer is, "at least one" then I think the board was adding something good to the game.

Boards and delivery services and the like would be good tools to tie together players who have different playing schedules; but for the vast majority of peak time high playtime players who make up the bulk of the player base ... of course they wouldn't need to use such tools. They can contact the Byn Sergeant directly because he's online when they are. Or they'll just walk the item over to its buyer because they're always online together.

For me, how many times said service gets used is not at all important compared to how much use the players who need said service get out of it. Quality over Quantity and what not. If a message/delivery service like that allows even just 1 or 2 off peak players to FINALLY place and get their order for armor/silks/spice from that great merchant house ... or allows the 1 low play time Bynner to take a contract clearing the Red Silt Road of some scrabs who've taken up residence ... then those services have done their job.

[vissa]

As an off-peak player with fluctuating playtimes, I've been wrestling with these issues for as long as I've been playing.  And I have to agree with those who've suggested that it all comes down to managing your expectations. 

This is not to say that some of the changes mentioned here won't alleviate matters somewhat, but there really is no substitute for being able to play often, consistently, and at peak times.  People are going to log in when you're not around, they're going to get together, things are going to happen spontaneously and you won't be a part of it. 

Your PC is never going to wield significant social power and have his or her finger in every plot – in fact, your PC will be out of the loop most of the time.  Your PC will never be the Known World's greatest warrior, or even get close.  You aren't going to have that 10,000 sid bank account and the three-room apartment full of silk outfits.  Well.  Maybe you will, but it's going to take a long, long time and be pretty damned frustrating.    If you have to have these things to have fun, you're probably not going to ever enjoy yourself.

I'm not trying to belittle anyone's complaints, but just offer the experience of someone who's "been there, done that" for many years, with results that have been sometimes satisfactory and sometimes very deeply not.

Some things that are on the table for Arm2 – namely player-owned shops and automated jobs – will really help alleviate issues of trade and money-making.  For other problems, like skill increases and getting involved socially, there's never going to be a quick and universally acceptable solution.

I really like the idea of an EVE-style gradual skill increase while logged off, though I've no idea if it would even be possible to implement something like this – and I really don't like the idea of starting skill increases, particularly if they're tied to karma, which is going to be pretty difficult to get as a low play-time newcomer.  In any case, a low play-time PC will almost always be less skilled than their high play-time counterparts; if you're obsessed with your PC's performance vs. other PCs, my suggestion is to try not to be.

I'd love to see an "odd jobs" board for those issues that don't really merit a gossip board post.  For those who are clanned, perhaps more use of IG clan gossip boards (which have seemed woefully underutilized in every clan I've ever been in – I don't know if the posting restrictions are particularly harsh, or what).  Many of my PCs would have loved the opportunity to contract a PC out on a very part-time basis and, as a player, I would be even more likely to try and find a task for someone who's off-peak and/or low play-time, as I know how frustrating it can be.

But there's no getting around the fact that if your PC isn't around very often, people typically won't remember you and are unlikely to involve you in much.  Over time, some long-lived PCs may start to take an interest, but you have to tough it out for a while first. 

Make friends with someone who has higher playing times than you, and get them to act as a messenger/courier. 

Do make your limitations explicit (yes, I mean the OOC command), to avoid frustration on the part of the people you're dealing with. 

And, frankly, if you really only have an hour or two per week to log in, unless you really like "flavor" characters who turn up occasionally to enliven a scene – the dung sweeper, the drunk, the spice addict, the beggar, the prostitute – you are probably not ever going to be able to get much out of the game, no matter what changes are made.

[LoD]

There's always a disconnect between people who have the time to devote to the game and those that do not, and it's a natural reaction to say that because I am not experiencing the same issues as you, that it is your problem rather than a problem.  However, Armageddon has always attracted a wide variety of players, each of which is governed by a unique equation for having fun.  We have a lot of different suggestions, opinions, wants, and hopes being thrown about this discussion, and no one should feel entitled to trample the other with definitive statements on how fun should be had.

That said, here are some of the suggestions and ideas that I like:

Special Request - Available Roles

I believe that Fathi's suggestion for having more frequently posted calls for "support" positions to be the suggestion that benefits the most people in question.  It benefits the staff because they can control areas of the game where they would like to see more support, action, or players.  It benefits casual players, because they can enter a role with a fairly clear understanding of where they stand and immediately become a useful part of an established chain.  And it can benefit hardcore players by providing them with potential support players to handle tasks or fill gaps they honestly don't want to have to do themselves.

I would likely provide these support roles with very niche and limited skill advancements, that allow them to accomplish their primary objective without making them a hands-down better choice than a newly created character.

Code Select Expand

Available: Journeyman Armor Crafter, Salarr
Location: Allanak
Minimum Karma Requirement: None.

Recently competing your Journeyman status with the arms and weapons dealing House Salarr, you have begun the task of supplying agent
orders for armors and weapons.  You will have a stipend of 300 coins a month, be supplied with appropriate clothing, and have access to
available storage and appropriate tools for your trade.

Benefit: This role comes with an enhanced armor crafting skill, and slightly enhanced haggle, value, and analyze skills.

Quests/Missions

While I don't like the idea of "random" quests being available, I do very much like the idea of staff and player leaders being able to set certain "quest" objectives with merchants and NPC's within a given city.  Quests might be an organization buying on a goodly amount of a certain foraged product (e.g. chunks of sandstone) for a period of time.  Players who cannot easily be part of major organizations could still potentially be useful and make a living by checking with these NPC's to see how they can help the House.

It would be especially good if these "quests/missions" were tied to major RPT's or HRPT's so that even casual players could recognize they were a cog in the wheel and contributed somehow to the success/failure of a certain event. (e.g. You know, I supplied most of the swords you now see used by the guards that remained after House Salarr took control of that bone yard from the gith.)

Couriers/Messengers

The ability to imperfectly pass items and messages would probably go a long way toward allowing casual players to keep in touch and player leaders to distribute orders to them.  If such a service would be too much trouble, then even IC replacements would work.  Having an NPC that lived somewhere within a clan home (i.e. GMH estate, Byn compound, AoD barracks) that could repeat IC orders left by a person of suitable rank could fill a similar void.

Code Select Expand

House Barracks [N]
A burly, black-eyed soldier sits behind a desk, issuing orders.

>ask soldier orders
You ask a burly, black-eyed soldier if he has any orders.

Glancing up at you, a burly, black-eyed soldier says, in sirihish:
  "Orders?  Aye, I've a few orders."
Clearing his throat, a burly, black-eyed soldier says, in sirihish:
  "About a day ago, a lord templar said...we need ta patrol the northern 'rinth more heavily, make sure you pass by on your shift."

Accomplishments

I don't think that you have to change the fundamental game in order to provide what casual players seem to be craving the most -- some sense of accomplishment.  All there needs to be are rewards that can be obtained through casual game play; rewards not only at a skill-gaining level, but also at a level that help PC's feel useful, relevant, and involved.  This isn't as impossible as it seems, and could be managed with the introduction of a few scripted NPC's and well thought-out clan structures.

-LoD

[Halcyon]

Some games use a system where the first two, three or five hours of play in a week give double or triple skill growth.  I don't know if that'd be impossible to implement in this system, but it nicely smooths the curve for many casual players, especially when there is a limit of one character per player.  There is some pressure to log in and get things done, but I'm not sure its any more than an achiever personality would feel normally with low playtimes.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

You don't need a more skilled character to have fun.  You need to stop feeling like your character needs coded abilities for you to have fun with the character.

This just isn't completely true. Sometimes, you do need skills to have fun doing a particular thing. Sometimes you are correct. Sometimes you don't need skills, but sometimes you do.

Having a veteran option, whether it is at 20% or 50%, is a way to help meet the need for those casual players who decide that, yes, they do need skills.

Regarding the actual problem, though, of casual player achievement, I have to be honest and say that I think only flavor roles can actually fill this void. Examples of such a role would include a bartender, an old, grizzled Tor Silver, a stalwart Legion Soldier, a random, havoc-wreaking raider, a petty criminal, a dungsweeper, a cotton picker, a farmer, and so on and so forth. Some of these roles require mild skill. Some don't. They all can paint pictures.

Flavor roles can lead much RP, and though plots for such characters can be thin, such is the sacrifice for reduced play times. I do not think that there is a solution for the problem of plot involvement. If you are a casual player, role with it, and focus instead on being the background. If you consider works of art, such as Norman Rockwell paintings, you will discover that the background is crucial to the whole of the piece.

[spawnloser]

And now spawnloser implying that those who want casual play are just obsessed with high numbers and can't have fun without super-powered characters?

This isn't only dismissive, it's condescending. The game has NEVER been good for casual play, and it has been designed and driven by those who are able to play regularly and put serious amounts of time into their characters and staff roles.

That is NOT what I'm implying.  That's only your interpretation because of a bias you already have.  What I am stating, straight-out, is that I believe that increasing skills is NOT the answer for those that want to come up with a solution for the ennui/frustration that 'casual players' have.  If someone feels that increasing starting skills is the answer, I suggest that such a person has a skewed opinion on what it is to 'win' at Armageddon.  That is all.

[Gimfalisette]

I don't see any reason why ARM can't provide me, through my PC, with a sense of achievement and accomplishment, as a casual player. Lots of other games give me a sense of achievement and accomplishment when I can only play them an hour a day. And because I can feel like I'm getting something done in those games with that one hour, then those are the games I choose to play.

Example: I primarily use the Sims games to build immersive environments. Last night, I worked on a medieval townhouse in a village that I am crafting and I found several different ways that the architecture did NOT work. To an outsider, perhaps this looks like "no progress at all," but from my perspective I know that I took small steps toward a larger project--one that will likely take me at least two months RL to complete.

Another example: I play a browser game in which I can log on for twenty minutes and make some incremental progress in achieving my own goals. No one else who plays that game knows me or cares anything about me, and I'm never going to "win" it by being at the top top level; but none of that is the point. I play it simply because it gives me a little moment to use my strategy and wits and get a tiny little bit done. And I enjoy it, despite the fact that I will never "win" it.

And in both of those examples, I contribute something to the community, as well. I build houses and share them, I write tutorials on building techniques, I point people toward resources; or I quest and make money and provide a PvP target for other players. I am there, I interact through the game, and that's important and fun not just to me, but to other players as well.

[FantasyWriter]

I don't see any reason why ARM can't provide me, through my PC, with a sense of achievement and accomplishment, as a casual player.

It can.  What are the restrictions you see with particular role types?

[Gimfalisette]

I don't see any reason why ARM can't provide me, through my PC, with a sense of achievement and accomplishment, as a casual player.

It can.  What are the restrictions you see with particular role types?

It's not about restrictions of particular role types. It's about the fact that getting anything done in ARM is an extremely time-consuming process not just in terms of sheer number of hours, but in number of contiguous hours that are necessary. It's all been said in detail in this thread previously, please read back.

[FantasyWriter]

Fantasy Writer's List of Recommended "Casual" Roles

Inside/Social:
Town drunk      - works a couple IC hours/IC day just enough to make the coin for that night's drink and food
A whore           - male or female
Casual spy         - barsitter, pick a guild with scan/listen and evesdrop in bars, selling information to interesting parties
A beggar          - seriously, you can make a fortune as a beggar in this game
Greeber/hunter - spends most of his time peddling his materials to PCs and exchanging gossip
Warrior/bard      - tells old war stories for food and drink (bonus points if he's missing a major body part)

Outdoors:  (best with rangers and certain elemental guilds)
Explorer              - explores for his own reasons
Scout                 - finds/see cool things and sells the information to city clans
Raider                - Ranger/thug ftw with ranger/rebel coming a close second (recommended quarries: lone sid minders, salters, loggers)
Rounge magicker - skill up and develop you character alone for a while and choose an alignment later on
                         a) vigilante who seeks to protect others even though they hate him/don't want his help
                         b) raider/scary thing that goes bump in the night

[Lizzie]

It's not about restrictions of particular role types. It's about the fact that getting anything done in ARM is an extremely time-consuming process not just in terms of sheer number of hours, but in number of contiguous hours that are necessary. It's all been said in detail in this thread previously, please read back.

Incorrect, incorrect, incorrect. The more hours per day I play, the less my character accomplishes. The more plotlines I get involved in, the less interested I am in being involved in any of them.

Codewise and RPwise, my experience is that you can enjoy Arm with a dozen hours weekly, if you can devote -some- of those dozen hours to consistent times and days of the week. So, 4 hours every saturday with at least two of them spent between 8-10PM. Plus at least two hours weekly between 7+9, on either a wednesday or a thursday.

That's just a for instance. 3 hours on saturday, 3 every wednesday, both within a 6pm-midnite EST window.. is another example. That's what I mean by consistency. If you can do that much, then you can enjoy Armageddon as a casual player. If you can't do that much, then I feel you are asking for too much from the game, to accommodate an unrealistic player expectation.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I don't see any reason why ARM can't provide me, through my PC, with a sense of achievement and accomplishment, as a casual player.

It can.  What are the restrictions you see with particular role types?

It's not about restrictions of particular role types. It's about the fact that getting anything done in ARM is an extremely time-consuming process not just in terms of sheer number of hours, but in number of contiguous hours that are necessary. It's all been said in detail in this thread previously, please read back.

Gimf, what you are forgetting, though, is that every game you play where you feel you achieve something in minor time is not geared towards RP. Even if they are nominally, they are not primarily geared towards RP. Because this game is, it must be kept in mind while devising manners in which to create a sense of casual time achievement. In many cases, RP and casual time achievement may not be placid partners.

[Nyr]

I'm in a different situation, but I think there are some similarities.  Anecdote!

Currently, I can't play sponsored roles.  (This is a staff policy.)
I also don't have the time or the inclination to really play a leadership role.  (This is Nyr honesty.)
I think this puts me in the "casual gamer" camp.

Sometimes, I do get a hankering to play.  When I do, I aim for short-term goals that will satisfy me.  None of these goals include being x sponsored role or y leadership role, but as mentioned above, I am not interested in that anyway and would do those roles a disservice.  Do I enjoy them as much as goals that involve aspirations to take over the world?  Well, not exactly, but these are realistic goals within the framework of the game, and I tend to enjoy it.  I did have to change my expectations, and this also changed the concepts of the characters I created, sending me down paths that I never thought I'd be pursuing:  flavor roles and PCs with minor involvement in the world.

I don't have any insight for players that have always played casually, and I don't know if this post will help those players that went from high playtimes to restricted playtimes.  Each person looks at a problem in a different way.  I just found a way to work within the limits I had, and learned to enjoy it.

[Pale Horse]

   Gimf, Staggerlee, et all, low timees.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but from reading over this thread, it seems to me that you are all experiencing what feels like a lack of ability to accomplish anything in the game and there for have fun, due to the length of time needed to do so in the current Arm. environment, and your lack of available time to give,
  It's my understanding that "accomplishing" anything and having "fun" has much to do with a person's personal goals.  With this in mind, what sorts of things, specifically, are you all trying to accomplish when you're logged in with your characters?  Are you looking to make a killing selling vestric feather hats to the fine citizens of Tuluk?  Is your outdoorsie character looking to just enjoy a few drinks at the bar while in the city, catching up on specific gossip so as to better make his/her move when they decide to settle down in the walls?  Are you looking to become a member of the Allanaki Militia, serve your Highlord and establish His laws with an Iron Fist and an open, bribe-accepting purse?
  I admit to not being a low timee player, so I do not fully understand your difficulties, having no experience with them.  I'm trying to understand, though, so as to better think of ways to alleviate your frustrations and facilitate enjoyment.

 Some thoughts of my own towards this are:

1.  An IG Town Crier/Message boy/girl system.
  Sure, we have the message boards, but that's more for city-wide gossip and events that would easily reach your ears.  With this system, I'm looking at a collection of individual NPCs put in public, high traffic places (outside popular taverns, in the town square, etc) that can be approached and, for the price of say, 5 'sid, told a specific message to be given to a specific person, should they come up and ask.  All messages this way are kept for two RL days, unless payed extra for extra time, before being automatically deleted, and they hold a maximum of say 5 to 10 messages.  Example:
   Amos (the tall, muscular man) needs to get in touch with Talia (the tressy-tressed, buxom woman) about delivering some materials she ordered from him, some weeks ago.  Talia's player is a low timee, so she isn't on often enough to get the many Way attempts that Amos has tried, but she's good for the interaction and money.  So!  Amos goes to the local town square and hits up one of the criers, which goes something like this:

Code Select Expand

A broad-shouldered town crier is here, taking and giving out messages.

>talk crier

A broad-shouldered town crier says, "Whatcha need?"
1) Any messages for me?
2) Keep a message for someone.
3) What's the latest word?

>1

A broad-shouldered town crier asks, "What's yer name?"

>Amos

A broad-shouldered town crier squints dubiously, looking you over.

A broad-shouldered town crier says "Nope, n'one's got anything to say to someone looking like you with yer name.  Migh' try some of the other runners, near the Gaj or over by the Traders."

>Talk crier

A broad-shouldered town crier says, "Whatcha need?"
1) Any messages for me?
2) Keep a message for someone.
3) What's the latest word?

>3

A broad-shouldered town crier smiles cheerfully, saying "Lord Fancypants Fale's holding a party for the whole feckin' city in the Azure Dragon, in a few weeks time! Don' miss out!  OOC: June 1st, at 8pm, EST."


  Option 3, here, brought up one of a few messages that fill the parts of either general rumor (as barkeeps and other NPCs attempt to do, now) or specific ones they've been hired to shout out loud.

  Should options 2 be picked, you'll be asked "Sure!  Who ya want to pass it on to, an' what do they look like?".  You can then enter an editor where you can input the name/nickname of the person you want to receive the message, then the message it's self.  When done, you name the length of time you want the crier to keep the message, then pass over the needed amount of coin.  All messages are geared towards the specific combination of short description and name, so if anyone asks for someone else's messages, they'll be turned away, and the message is echoed only to the one it's been left for.  No eves dropping, sorry.
  This way, if Talia logs in when Amos isn't around, or has a barrier up because he's Mud Sexxing that latest PC F-me (who's not her), she can stroll down town to check out the criers/runners and see if any message has been dropped off for her.  She'll then find that Amos is looking for her, and she can either contact him personally, or leave another message, telling him where to drop the stuff off and an expect time to meet up with her for payment/mud sexxing/backstabbing for sleeping with that other F-me behind her back.
   I envision that there would be say, three different Crier/Runners in a given spot.  Say a town-crier, a grubby looking girl runner and a tired looking old man.  Each is connected to their specific counter parts around the city, so that messages can be picked up from any number of locations.  Maybe there's a wondering Crier that moves up and down Caravan's during specific times of the day, or a runner that switches between that bar in the 'rinth and just outside the Gaj, or another that hangs out outside some of the apartment complexes.

[Lizzie]

And what happens if there are TWO Talias in the game? What happens if you leave a message for the tall dark handsome man, and there are three of them. What if both Talias are the tressy-tressed woman? What happens if Talia the tressy-tressed woman is wearing a mask? What makes you think the NPC would recognize her to give her the message, if the NPC has never met her?

I think the best way to appreciate the notion of playing a casual gamer in Arm, is to not expect the same things as people with more time to play. This -also- means you have less of a chance that Joe Assassin will catch up to you and kill you...so you get benefits that you don't otherwise get too. The longer you're logged on for, the easier a target you become. AND, the more likely you are to -be- someone's target, because you've had more time to develop hostilities with people.

[Pale Horse]

Edited some of my original post to include some things I hadn't added, at the start.

As for Lizzie's point about there being several "Talias" or "the tressy-tressed women" IG, well..I'm pretty sure there's an established code in the game that allows for something like this.  How else does Nenyuk keep track of your account, when there's plenty of others out there who look like you and have your same name?  If it's an aspect of the specific room the banks in, that looks at the player's account and character to get the specifics, well, why not have that same code, with the Criers/Runners?

And if not, well..Perhaps have the message taker refuse to take a message, if they've got one for someone that matches your name and short-desc, so as to not suffer this confusion.  Maybe with a replay to "try one of the other runners", who would keep different messages.  If this isn't feasible, hey, these guys deal with hundreds of people per week.  Mistakes happen, when they meet so many that look alike.

Perhaps you could have a second call-name, for things like this?  As I said, you leave a name or nickname to pass the message on to.  Lots of PCs end up adding extra Keywords, to facilitate what people call them, that aren't their "true-names" from chara. gen.  Pick one for messages.  Say Talia has the nick of "Sexy" in her list of keywords, or it's a code word that's needed to be passed on, one worked out between her and Amos, in times past, in conjunction with her specific short-desc that let's the NPC dole out the saved message.  That way, if a second, look alike Talia tries for the other Talia's messages, she'll be out of luck, since they're actually keyed towards someone with the password or name of "Sexy".

If you manage to have the same short-desc and get the information of what exactly is that other woman's "password", or what Amos told the crier to respond to, then kudos, you've taken a step forward in becoming a spy.

[LoD]

And what happens if there are TWO Talias in the game? What happens if you leave a message for the tall dark handsome man, and there are three of them. What if both Talias are the tressy-tressed woman? What happens if Talia the tressy-tressed woman is wearing a mask? What makes you think the NPC would recognize her to give her the message, if the NPC has never met her?

I don't think that anyone is suggesting a fully-developed method for handling IC message-passing; instead, they seem to be tossing around loose models for how the concept might look in game.  As such, I don't know that makes a lot of sense to spend time poking holes in swiss cheese.  Are you against the idea of an improved IC message-passing system?  If so, why?

I think the best way to appreciate the notion of playing a casual gamer in Arm, is to not expect the same things as people with more time to play. This -also- means you have less of a chance that Joe Assassin will catch up to you and kill you...so you get benefits that you don't otherwise get too. The longer you're logged on for, the easier a target you become. AND, the more likely you are to -be- someone's target, because you've had more time to develop hostilities with people.

I don't think people are saying they want the same experience as people with more time, but that they feel there are ways they could enjoy this game more if certain changes were made.  Granted, some of what needs to change is people's perception, but I think it's a bit short-sighted to write this off completely as their burden to bear.  There's room to grow in these areas that won't trivialize players who have more time to play, and I certainly think they can be worthwhile.

-LoD

[Gimfalisette]

It's my understanding that "accomplishing" anything and having "fun" has much to do with a person's personal goals.  With this in mind, what sorts of things, specifically, are you all trying to accomplish when you're logged in with your characters?  Are you looking to make a killing selling vestric feather hats to the fine citizens of Tuluk?  Is your outdoorsie character looking to just enjoy a few drinks at the bar while in the city, catching up on specific gossip so as to better make his/her move when they decide to settle down in the walls?  Are you looking to become a member of the Allanaki Militia, serve your Highlord and establish His laws with an Iron Fist and an open, bribe-accepting purse?

I play a variety of character types with a variety of different goals. Often I choose a role because I want to learn or experience some new aspect of the game; I take that OOC goal and turn it into one or more IC goals. So I have played a variety of non-sponsored PCs including bards, warriors, magickers, and crafters. What all roles have in common--not just my roles, but everyone's roles--are some core tasks that are central to any kind of achievement in the game. And it as the level of accomplishing these tasks that casual players feel pain.

As I mentioned in my first post on this thread, tasks include stuff like: Sending messages, completing transactions, skilling up, making money, meeting new people, and clan recruiting. Other people have mentioned other stuff. All of these tasks are very difficult to pursue effectively on one hour per day, due to a lot of different coded effects in the current game environment.

[musashi]

As I mentioned in my first post on this thread, tasks include stuff like: Sending messages, completing transactions, skilling up, making money, meeting new people, and clan recruiting. Other people have mentioned other stuff. All of these tasks are very difficult to pursue effectively on one hour per day, due to a lot of different coded effects in the current game environment.

Just to recap, it seems that in answer to these problems, the following ideas have been suggested in the thread:

Sending messages, completing transactions (which can tie into making money): Having some kind of in game message/delivery service.

Skilling up: Letting people start with higher starting level skills, or gain skills slowly while off-line, or other variation.

Meeting new people: No real new ideas I think ... this one is basically impossible I think without being online to socialize.

Clan recruiting: Having a kind of message board for hiring outside large clan compounds, coupled with the message delivery service.

I think that the ideas offered in regards to the first and fourth problems would be welcome additions to the game, without making anyone feel slighted or cheated. But as for skilling up, I feel like letting people opt to have better than starting skills would just raise the bar across the game for what constituted "new" and "old" characters, and in the end, probably wouldn't solve a lot.

[Pale Horse]

As I mentioned in my first post on this thread, tasks include stuff like: Sending messages, completing transactions, skilling up, making money, meeting new people, and clan recruiting. Other people have mentioned other stuff. All of these tasks are very difficult to pursue effectively on one hour per day, due to a lot of different coded effects in the current game environment.

  Thank you for responding to my question, and restating the specific difficulties you face.


Messages
  Addressing the first issue, messages, I just completed a suggestion, above, with the town crier idea.
Transactions
  Perhaps taking that a bit further, and saying that this service is provided by Nenyuk.  They have their main bank for large and regular banking purposes, but let's say they have a large tent/stand set up in the middle of the city, where the "main" runners and criers hang out.  Inside, they've got shelves and chests and what not set up behind a counter, with an NPC clerk.  This NPC will accept small amounts of coin and several small items or a couple largish ones, to be stored for a number of RL days, in expectation of their intended recipient coming by and asking if anything has been dropped off for them.  Same code for the messages used, for PC recognition, that the criers use.  Leaving an item or amount of coin requires a certain extra payment (very affordable) for the initial storing, then a small amount for withdrawal and pick up.
Skilling up
  Personally,  I'm a proponent of actually being IG to increase your skills.  Work in, benefits out.  I'll point towards the previous suggested "veteran" idea, though, as a viable and likable (for me) solution.  I also wouldn't have any problems with those of higher karma being able to automatically create a some-what higher skilled new character..provided it was several levels lower than their highest karma options.  No magickers with spells of doom from the get go, please.

  As for making money, meeting new people and clan recruitment, I've few ideas or suggestions.  Making money is feasible with the number of odd jobs IG, like 'sid hacking or cotton picking, etc.  Having more is always a plus, but I'll leave specific ideas for other jobs, to others and another thread.  Meeting new people, sadly, is one of those things where time put in=benefits, unless you happen to catch some consistent people who bar sit or log on during the same times you do, consistently, as I'm sure you've thought of already.  Joining a clan would be my biggest suggestion, and then lobbying for your fellow players to assist you, if they are willing, in keeping in touch with things, despite being a member of low-visibility.  Posts on the clan rumor thread about what's going on, or maybe some private messages back and forth between those players who's PCs are close with your own, describing what they might be doing together, when both are virtual.  Life doesn't stop, when our characters aren't logged in.  If this is done, please, please, please send a copy of all correspondences of such a nature to your clan Staff, for review, to keep them in the loop, and for them to either point out problems that might arise from this idea, or to put a polite stop to it, if it's against game policy at the moment.
  Clan recruitment..well, that's one of those where you'll either have to compromise your personal goals, if you just don't have the time to interact with the clan of your desire, or other, small clans that allow "auto-joining" and some soloing tasks could be implemented.  A "Weavers Guild", where you can join with an NPC for 150 'sid, and be informed of the benefits of being part of this small organization.  There's no guild hall or barracks, but there is an NPC that provides a few pieces of free or cheap linen and another who will take said linen and add it to a clan vault for use of the other PCs or for sale in the markets, and give back some coins by way of profit for a job done for the guild...kinda like how the tailoring and other small crafts thing is set up, in Red Storm.  PCs can go to the guild NPC that stores things and buy the products of their guild mates for their own use.  If no one buys, then the items eventually get sold virtually, through the code that's already in place for shop inventories.  No buyers, no coin and no one in the guild profits.  Guild leaders (sponsored low-timee roll or otherwise) can add more coin to the "paymaster" when they're logged in, or move some of the inventory themselves...
   ...looking over this idea, I just realized that I've described, basically, the clan system for Arm.2....Guess that shows just how much I like the idea, eh?  Something as..facile..as described above (easy as I view it, anyway), I could see being in Arm.1, and maybe could alleviate some of the low timees woes, as well as add something for the high timees.