Seeya!

[Jdr]

I, like all people who have played (usually sponsored) leadership roles doubtless feel that there's simply not enough rewarding from one's superiors, the 'invisible person' as Dacameron put it. I don't mean to sound like a worrier, but it's like playing Call of Cthulu where the DM enjoys inflicting misery pertaining one's actions and withholding the gains.

If I am playing a role which staff chose me to play, as a favor for the enrichment of their clan/game, and I stick by it and pull out all the stops to achieve things, it'd be really nice to see some rewards from the invisible bosses, be it gifts, promotions or other good favors that show you're appreciated and doing fine work.

On promotions, I can't see the problem with rising. You'll always have bosses. If you're a Red Robe you're gonna have a Black Robe boss. If you're a Black Robe you're gonna have Tek as your boss. You'll never have superior power, if that's what the game's administrators worry about.

[Jia]

Edited, content no longer viable.

P.S.  Arm is fun.

[musashi]

I just ... don't feel it. I don't feel any of the experiences espoused by DustMight or Lord of Charas. Maybe it's because I play independants mostly and thus don't ever try to take an IG clan and move them in a hugely different direction than they were going before, but every interaction I've ever had with the staff seemed more in line with just making the game world come alive (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse) rather than actively picking a side and poking at the person on the other team. Even when the staff were helping to kill one of my PC's, it still didn't feel like anything personal, and the follow-up emails afterwards confirmed that for me.

From following this thread, I feel like the main gripe seems to be that things are less hack and slash now. For me that isn't a gripe though, it's a pro.

Also, and I don't mean to sound offensive but: When you decide to leave the game (or depart from anything really), trying to throw some blame and guilt around on your way out the door by offering up who's fault you think it is and what said other people did that was wrong ... is in bad taste, 100% of the time. Imagine leaving a job or sports group and shit talking people who are still in it (and still by and large liked/respected by the other members) on your way out. It's not usually going to endear your memory to the folks who are staying behind.

[Jengal]

I'm getting really tired of people constantly going on about how the mud isn't how it used to be. I only began playing arm a year ago, so I'm not really sure how 'EPIC' it used to be, but the arm we have now is pretty great! and all the bitching going on will not make arm magically revert back to how it used to be, and at the end of the day, it's not the player's game, no matter how much you want it to be. So really, the staff can do whatever they want, you just have to roll with the punches.

[Spice Spice Baby]

at the end of the day, it's not the player's game, no matter how much you want it to be.

My only contribution to this thread is that this is kind of a dumb thing to say. What would a game be without players?

[Jengal]

at the end of the day, it's not the player's game, no matter how much you want it to be.

My only contribution to this thread is that this is kind of a dumb thing to say. What would a game be without players?

I meant that the players don't own the game, the play it.

They can make contributions, but they have no place in complaining moaning about it when it's rejected.

[Rhyden]

Bynners don't even die for no good reason anymore! If you fight NPCs in an RPT, the imms put MERCY on those fuckers so that everyone makes it home safely.

Not true - some of my last few characters (some clanned, some not) died to some big nasty stuff (tm).

Why has no one suicide bombed the Gaj lately?

Good question. Probably because the assassin's skillset was switched up a year or so back.

Why is there not a Kadian walking up Caravan Road with a spice pipe hanging out of their mouth? Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's illegal!

More bribes.

The answer? WAR! Lets see Nak and Tuluk duke it out again soon! If I have to fly to an imm's house and force him, at gun point, to log in as Tek and do a:

Careful what you ask for.

[Lizzie]

Sounds like sour grapes to me. Maybe it was a perfectly awesome plotline Charas was stirring up, but he as doing it in such an ass-awful way, that the staff told him his -method- sucked and he had to change it, so he's having himself a hearty temper tantrum because mommy took away his Choo Choo.

At least that's how it sounds to me. I know if some major kick-ass world-changing "prepare for Armageddon.2" plotlines going on, and I don't see any of them being stopped. I just see things shifting around a bit as some PCs die and new PCs crop up and learn about them, and take an interest and get involved.

Like I said..things shift. People go on vacation. Charas throws a temper tantrum and takes his ball home. Staff rotates. Add all that up and you've got plotlines that sometimes have to simply sit until it can get moving again. That is the nature of muds that run 24/7 with players who are awake, and asleep, at varying hours of the day.

[Nyr]

I moderated a post describing IC information in detail (very recent stuff, too).  Feel free to complain, but if it's about something recent, you should probably talk to your staff instead of venting on the GDB about it specifically.

[Zoltan]

I can't really go into much detail for IC reasons, but I'd like to throw my two 'sids in.

The metagame glass ceiling that Decameron mentioned and which I've heard many other players complain about is something that I've never really bumped up against. I've never played an uber-powerful character. I've had many a character's aspirations utterly squashed, though, but it was all clearly IC, whether by the staff's or other players' hands. I can recognize that some players of more powerful characters could feel stymmied by this glass ceiling of virtual authority, I guess. It just doesn't bug me as much, but I've never really had a pet plot, so I don't know. I do know that I'd never want to see a black robe templar PC, or a head-of-a-noble house PC. I know the structure probably feels stale to some of our veteran players, but I -thoroughly- enjoy playing in the system and to me, it's part of Arm's appeal.

Someone brought up the staff experimenting or whatever with giving PC leaders more reign in their clans, in preparation for the way 2.Arm will be. I am -definitely- seeing this in the clan I'm playing in. It feels -wide- open, almost too much so! Heh, it could be that my staffers are just good at hiding the puppet strings from me, or maybe we're just on the same wave-length and I'll be totally screwed during the next staff rotation.  Either way, from my point of view, the "big end of the world" plots may be slowing down, but the little stuff is fucking rocking. I'm having a great time. Then again, my eyes still hold the glimmer of a newblet, and I have yet to feel the inevitable jaded-ness whatsoever, so take it all as you will.

Oh, someone mentioned not getting enough reward-like things for playing a sponsored role well. Maybe you should just ask for something? Who knows what might happen if you ask politely? I don't think anyone on the staff wants you to be bored and unhappy, especially with a role you're playing to fill out the game world.

Hrm, I'm certainly sounding cheery and preachy right now. But who knows, maybe in six months it'll be -me- griping and wishing things would be how they were "back in the day"?

[Cutthroat]

Bynners don't even die for no good reason anymore! If you fight NPCs in an RPT, the imms put MERCY on those fuckers so that everyone makes it home safely.

Heh, people don't always make it home safely. Byn or otherwise.

When's the last time you've seen metal on someone who WASN'T a Templar / immpet?

Why has Kurac not decided to take over the weapons/armor business, and thus declared all out war on Salarr? (Answer: Because you'd get force stored the moment you fired off the think.)

Where are the massive PC raider groups?

Why has no one suicide bombed the Gaj lately?

Why is there not a Kadian walking up Caravan Road with a spice pipe hanging out of their mouth? Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's illegal!

I'm not even sure any of these or similar events should be happening on a regular basis anyway. A few of those things do happen rarely though, and I think that is sweet, because the rarity makes those events a lot more special.

Regarding PC leadership - I agree with Zoltan and that aspect of greater control is pretty visible.

[Kol]

Although, admittidly, I've only been playing since October, I've so far witnessed at least three big plotlines unfold, two my PC was involved in.

While I still have that J D newbie feeling of love and admiration for the world I play in, I've realaised from talking to older players, reading threads, so on and so forth, that theres a lot of Cox's in this game, Yes, bigger, more grand plotlines happened in the past, and yes, some of the older players want to have more, big, grand plotlines.

But fuck that. Sorry guys, Your RPing in a simulated world, and like this world, I do belive that Zalanthas would, indeed, have times of quiet, where there are few to no raidings on the highways, times of peace between warring nations, and times of few, if any, major heros, or heroines, as the case may be.

In the time I've been playing, I've seen major and minor code updates, which, in retrospect, have obviously taken a lot of time in planning. Take into consideration that the Imm's are trying to moderate this version of the game, build a new version, and still maintain some form of life outside of Arm, and thats a shitload of responsibility, and as far as I can see, you get two pages of bitching from jaded players who want more time from an already busy staff, who ask nothing in return, because you dont get a plotline for your pc approved?
Grow up. pick your rattle off the floor and stop throwing a tantrum, Yes, the documents state that the staff are here to facilitate your roleplaying experiance, but remember that they do it voluntarily. Did you ask why the plot wasnt approved before ranting on the GDB? did you try seeking an alternative to playing out this plotline? have you asked the Imm's if there is any other way to facilitate a similar plot?

I have aspirations for my PC, some plots which, yes, I may need inevitable assisstance from the I'mms later on down the road, but untill then, rather than ask them to help me drive a plot for me, I'd much rather go find ways IG of doing it. after all, this -is- a player driven game world, and yes, there may be a glass roof an the current version for whatever reason the Imm's see fit, but that dosen't mean that player driven plots cant happen with a little trying, IC and IG, or with a little back and forth with the Imm's.

Sorry to rant, but Its just the Staff don't really ask much, if anything from the playerbase, that often that I've seen, and yet I still see regular posts complaining, bitching, and general nit-picking about aspects of the game that seem to work fine from my perspective, but, as I said, I'm still a newb.

once again, Sorry to rant.

Kol.

EDIT TO ADD: Haven't slept for two days due to a really painful knee, so I'm not my usual chirpy self, otherwise, this post will have appeared less of a rant, and more than constructive critisism.

(/rant off)

[Jdr]

Just like a soldier would never dare ask a Templar for a prezzie for all their hard work (like a 'Hey, Lord Templar, remember when I saved your life?' pin), neither would a Templar ask Mister Red Robe for something similar. You just wouldn't do it.

[Lizzie]

If my character wanted that pin badly enough, then yes, my character -would- ask the templar for the pin. And if I knew that templar was being played by a staff member and was an animated NPC, then yes, I would e-mail the staff and ask them for an RP-time to set it up.

ICly, in Zalanthas, don't expect handouts. In fact, SUSPECT handouts, because there's usually a hidden motive behind it. OOCly, if you need something from staff, then ask for it. If you don't get why they say no, ASK why. If you don't understand the reason, ASK for a better explanation. I'm sure I drive some of the staff batty when I do that. But fuck it. This is a game I play for my enjoyment and when something happens that makes me not enjoy, or detracts from my enjoyment, then I want an explanation. So that I can get -over- it and move on to more fun things. It's a matter of closure. The staff is awesome with helping me get over that bump. But, I think that's because I ASK for explanations instead of throwing hissy fits on the GDB when something is taken away.

[Kol]

If my character wanted that pin badly enough, then yes, my character -would- ask the templar for the pin. And if I knew that templar was being played by a staff member and was an animated NPC, then yes, I would e-mail the staff and ask them for an RP-time to set it up.

ICly, in Zalanthas, don't expect handouts. In fact, SUSPECT handouts, because there's usually a hidden motive behind it. OOCly, if you need something from staff, then ask for it. If you don't get why they say no, ASK why. If you don't understand the reason, ASK for a better explanation. I'm sure I drive some of the staff batty when I do that. But fuck it. This is a game I play for my enjoyment and when something happens that makes me not enjoy, or detracts from my enjoyment, then I want an explanation. So that I can get -over- it and move on to more fun things. It's a matter of closure. The staff is awesome with helping me get over that bump. But, I think that's because I ASK for explanations instead of throwing hissy fits on the GDB when something is taken away.

Someone slighty more experianced, and cohherent than me, Thank you Lizzie.

[Oleupata]

OOCly, if you need something from staff, then ask for it. If you don't get why they say no, ASK why. If you don't understand the reason, ASK for a better explanation.

For the record, and speaking only for myself, I don't mind this sort of thing at all and in fact prefer it. As has been said elsewhere, intent can be easily misconstrued in text, but I don't tend to take it badly if you're invested in a plot.

[Lord of Charas]

Like I said..things shift. People go on vacation. Charas throws a temper tantrum and takes his ball home. Staff rotates. Add all that up and you've got plotlines that sometimes have to simply sit until it can get moving again. That is the nature of muds that run 24/7 with players who are awake, and asleep, at varying hours of the day.

Mmm . . . the plot will go through . . . maybe in a couple years, maybe
virtually . . . who knows . . . but in all likeliness I'll probably have stopped
caring, by that time. Blah . . . No use waiting around like a moron for
nothing when I go spend my time on some actually worthwhile things.
Maybe you're right and I need to rethink it a bit, but I doubt it. I wrote
the whole damn proposal in story-format . . . shit. the plots been all layed
out for them. Now, I just need the tiniest, tiniest droplet of support,
and this thing might even make this version of the game. Shit. Who knows.

I tend not to stake too much belief in miracles, though. The imm's are
busy, let them do their shit. I need to move on with my life, there's better
things to do, than just wait on my ass.

OOCly, if you need something from staff, then ask for it. If you don't get why they say no, ASK why. If you don't understand the reason, ASK for a better explanation.

Did all this. I've been waiting a few days now, for some basic word back.
Why should there be any ? Why should I expect there to be any ? There
won't be any, 'cuz I suspect this guy is a special breed of hardass who
wouldn't sending back if some basic, level-headed inquiry of mine started
to tickle at his annoyance factor. Maybe he just thinks that his vague-ass
explanations are answers enough. Personally, they don't tell me nothin',
I just see them as more archiac, cock-blocking policies; bogus informations
that tell me nothing, that might as well be written in another language.

For the record, and speaking only for myself, I don't mind this sort of thing at all and in fact prefer it. As has been said elsewhere, intent can be easily misconstrued in text, but I don't tend to take it badly if you're invested in a plot.

Hah. I wish all imm's were this level-headed. A few end-world agenda's
might actually /get/ somewhere.

[Cutthroat]

Don't worry about the end of the world until... well. Until the world is ending.

You'll feel a lot better about it.

[Nyr]

Don't worry about the end of the world until... well. Until the world is ending.

LordofCharas, I just e-mailed you to that effect.  I'd recommend waiting more than two days for response from e-mails; it generally helps to not look impatient about things that are not time-sensitive.

Dustmight, I'm e-mailing you about something too, since I think you read too much into my response earlier.

[Lord of Charas]

. . . the world is ending.

Yeah, it is.

Right now.

Like Fantasywriter said, it should have by all
rights ended 2 years ago. But I'll laugh it's
another 6.

[Nyr]

It should have.  We adjusted the timeline because we wanted to have a better Armageddon Reborn.  We'll let you know when it's finished, I promise.  In the meantime, we have a fully dedicated staff on Armageddon, working on plots, new code, etc.

Sure, the gameworld is in the process of ending.  It doesn't mean that it's in such shambles right now that you are neck-deep in game-altering end-of-the-world plots.  (Maybe ankle-deep.) 

Guessing at how the world is going to end is fun, but there's a lot more to everything than meets the eye.

[Kol]

Ive waited over two weeks to recive a response from staff before LoC, paitaince -is- a virtue.

Also, as far as complaining about a staff members response to your inquiry, and you -not- being able to understand the replys, I belive, if you e-mailed the staff member in question, with a CC to the mud account too, requesting that the matter be handled by another staff member, explaining in a clear, precise, language, that you did not understand the reply at all, and if at all possible, could it be eleaborated on, you may recive better response, and attitude from staff members in general.

Think about it this way, if I asked you for something, you said no, we had a cuple e-mails back and forth about the situation, and you explained in your infinate wisdom to the best of your abilities, why and how the request I made of you was improbbable, if not impossable, and I still didn't understand,

would you feel terribly happy if I came to the GDB flaming your responses, calling you a hard-ass, and saying your responses were vauge?

I know I wouldn't, I freely admit that even at the best of times, I'm a little hard to understand, or even comprehend, but I know people who can understand me and the points I -try- and make, and can explain them better than I could.

Hell, Spawnlooser showed this in a recent thread about Skill counters, the complete control method for Arm 2.0.

Theres -always- someone who can explain why, how, where, when or what better to you than another person.

Also:

Code Select Expand

Don't worry about the end of the world until... well. Until the world is ending.
 
Regards, Kol

[Pale Horse]

The only word of advice or thing I can contribute to this thread is:

If you're looking for a game/source of entertainment that provides "quick" or consistent replies to your requests and/or plot lines, to the positive or negative..this might not be the game you're looking for, for all it's awesomeness.  It's Staffed by volunteers that try to be as professional in their activities as they can, while still holding to the right for entertainment that's theirs as much as it is ours.  Is there a responsibility between a Staff member and those players that are involved in the clan/plot they oversee?  Yes, but you also need to remember that this is a game.  It is not a business, you have not bought into a right to have certain things done for you, people take vacations, change their ides and so on and so forth.  If you think differently, I'm afraid you've now run up against the hard wall of reality.

I understand your frustration.  I've a couple plot lines I'm involved in that while not explicitly linked to "end of the world" or "world shaking" events, they have that feel that they could be, or have the potential to branch into them.  They've been sat on for months upon months.  Why?  Staff rotation, player drift/burn out, RL concerns, the PCs outside of my clan that were involved in it ended up becoming scrab bait, IC events screwed over parts of it, etc.  "Shit happens" as the bumper sticker says.  Why and how do I "put up" with this?  I love the game.  I love the amount of things I'm able to influence and affect, which is far, far more than anything else I've ever encountered in a MUD.

That might also be part of the difficulty you're experiencing.  This game offers far more opportunities to change a living, breathing created world than any other MUD I've run into or heard about.  Our enthusiasm for such, though, often outstrips the hard reality of the situation, which is exactly that:  It's a game.  Staffed and run by volunteers.  Awesome ones, surely, but still human, still fallible, with human limitations and limitations of being a non-funded hobby with a limited number of participants.

Welcome to Armageddon.  We do hope you have fun, but do try to recognize that so is everyone else.  If you're not having fun, don't play.  It's as simple as that, and it applies to everyone.  Staff included.

[brytta.leofa]

Unless 2.Arm brings really dramatic breakthroughs in game design, the glass ceiling and walls are always going to be a problem to players in high-powered roles.

[musashi]

Heh, if I had a nickle for everytime Nyr and I misconstrued one another's meaning via email ...