Seeya!

[DustMight]

Well, I keep coming back to Armageddon trying to recapture the awesomeness that was, but I can't find it.  I'm not sure if I've changed or the game has changed so much that I can no longer find any enjoyment in it.  No doubt both my own growth and that of the game are to blame, like any bad relationship.  =)

God knows I spent plenty of my days in my twenties scouring the sands and am responsible for the three-wheeled wagon that Kurac owned - responsible as the player who commissioned it and paid for it. I wonder if they still own it.  It always warmed my heart to see it cutting through the sands.  Likewise, my short-lived and unsuccessful templar did write something that years later another character of mine found (and had someone read to her) - both awesome events because it brings home a sense of history.

However, I have little time or patience these days to spend twenty minutes walking somewhere to spend hours gathering and then hours/days/a week for a vendor to buy it from me.  I feel deeply saddened that the hodgepodge of a thing that is Tuluk now reins supreme over Zalanthas with plenty of free food and inexpensive water.  What has gone one between Allanak and Tuluk highlights, really, what I see as a deviation from the vision of the harsh and brutal world I logged on years ago to find and what it is in reality. 

I've said for years the game is no longer big enough for two cities and this is still true - and by that I meant Tuluk should never have been raised up.  Everything about it seems synthetic and forced.  Allanak has the history and the reality of Zalanthas as it was first conceived.  It is only this city that carries the spirit of the mud and yet it is slowly dying due to lack of attention (rooftoop additions, not withstanding).  It was only this week that a staff wrote to tell me (regarding a question about Allanak) that there would be no more buildling, yet this same week, land was added around Tuluk.  Hooray. 

Even the change of titles for the Overlords leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  Could we ask for something a little more bland and pre-chewed, please? 

At least, when Armageddon had the hard-nosed Immortal rep the game rocked very hard.  Now - it's like an old man sighing on his deathbed. 

My preference for play has always been the average joe and when I would fool myself into thinking that I could play the rich or elite found myself bored because it was all just too easy.  At the same time, I don't want to compete with folks that have it easy because they live in the favored town.

Granted, there is no finer roleplay between PCs than can be found on Armageddon, when it's found.  Permadeth does lend itself to protecting one's character's life (reasonably so) at the expense of RP, but also adds that necessary edge.  Roleplay, however, isn't the only thing we log on for - right?  Otherwise we might join any MUSH or MUD.

Anyway, I'm a little dejected at what has become of the mighty Armageddon.  I may play out this last character I have - or not.  If I do, I'm pretty sure I won't enjoy it as I watch the clock, trying to plan my evening out with the wife and family while my character is lost in a sandstorm unable to find a quit safe room in the middle of the night.

</ramble>

[PerpetualPatriot]

Bwhahaha! 

[MarshallDFX]

Armageddon seems pretty awesome to me.

[mansa]

Take a long break, and then come back with a dwarf warrior, and try and create your own mercenary group.

Be more rough than what you think the Byn shouldof been.

Usually you need to play with different people, and then you'll find your own fun again.   It's all about your own personal enjoyment, remember.

[spicemustflow]

Maybe it's because Tuluk had the reputation of being a ghost town for a long time. At least I got that idea when in the beginning. Hopefully Nak will get the same attention soon.

[Lord of Charas]

This is exactly how I've been feeling, lately. I had a huge potential end-world plot,
but it looks like they've got it all laid out, nice and cozy, and don't want any player
involvement in that, they don't want any deviation from their well-laid `plans.`

I feel crushed, inside. Absolutely terminated. Don't see much point, really, in going
on with this B.S. Seems the only plots you get approval any more are the ones that
involve killing someone or some shit like that. Nothing out of the box or remotely
original. ~shrug~ Kind of pointless . . .

[Cutthroat]

I don't see this at all. There are still player run plots happening, with staff assistance. If there's certain areas getting more attention than others, there's probably a good reason (like IC involvement between PCs).

I just don't see the huge disparity between Tuluk and Allanak, and I'm sorry that you do. Perhaps you'll be back eventually.

[Lizzie]

I also don't see much of what Charas is talking about. I mean, I do see plots that intentionally involve death. But I also see a whole lot of interesting strands of plots, from the point of view of someone who isn't involved in them...that have nothing to do with intentionally killing anyone. At least not from the perspective I'm seeing them from. Some of them are world-changing plots that have been going on for a long time and just hasn't gotten the thrust and impetus that they've needed, from players or staff. Sometimes it's just lousy timing. You're ripe to roll with something, but then the staff is in the middle of rotation again and it just has to be put on hold. Then by the time they're ready to run with the idea, your character is dead, and there's no PC interested in picking it up again.

I think with the latest system of rotations, where someone stays through at least one rotation to allow for some continuity, things are able to go more smoothly and organically.

But hey - even that guy has to go on vacation some time.

[Lord of Charas]

Maybe you're right. Maybe when the next rotation comes along, I'll be in luck.

Until then: ...

[Riev]

Everyone knows the populations of the game fluctuate, and MANY of the additions that are going into Arm1 are there solely for Arm2's code base.

Being an avid Tuluk player, I'm glad there are additions coming in, but when there are 50 people online, MAYBE 15 of them are actually in Tuluk. I've looked.

Too bad to see you go, though, but as people get older, nostalgia sets in and things are never how they once were.

[musashi]

Sorry you feel that way, and best of luck.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

I feel for ya, DustMight and Lord Charas. (And whoever else thinks the BA level of Arm is sliding down the crap-shute.)

I started playing about 5 years ago, and it seemed very bad-ass back then. When I started talking with Olde Tymers about the good ol' bad days of the mid 90's, I started to realize that this was quickly turning from Armageddon MUD to Kitten Petting MUD. (Of course, I heard most of this from Delerak, the guy who used to destroy entire Byn patrols with his ranger. Maybe it was skewed a little. :p)

I remember at one point reading Moire Kurac's journal, and the variety of shit that happened over 1 PCs lifetime. From an all out brawl between Kurac and the nakki Templarate/AOD. The life, death, and entombment of a defiler (whose Tomb is still IG, and the imms will STILL try to kill you if you go there.) Man, it was off the hook back in those days.

The problem I see is that imms have capped the potential greatness of a PC. Before they'd hand you the keys to a max warrior/ranger gith chieftan with 50 NPCs at your disposal and say "here, fuck some PCs up." Now, I'd need to cradle the balls and slurp the gravy just to get a rukkian with the slashing skill approved. I think the strict adherence to the rules of Karma/ Immortal favoritism (not necessarily separate concepts) have a lot to do with the backslide of the game. The same way the constitution allowed me to shoot a man who stole my horse in the 1800's, but now, in 2009, if someone breaks into my house waving a gun at me I have to ask him politely to leave, or else I'LL end up getting sued or going to prison. (A bit over-inflated, but not really.) Amendment and refinement does NOT equal better.

Bynners don't even die for no good reason anymore! If you fight NPCs in an RPT, the imms put MERCY on those fuckers so that everyone makes it home safely.

When's the last time you've seen metal on someone who WASN'T a Templar / immpet?

Why has Kurac not decided to take over the weapons/armor business, and thus declared all out war on Salarr? (Answer: Because you'd get force stored the moment you fired off the think.)

Where are the massive PC raider groups?

Why has no one suicide bombed the Gaj lately?

Why is there not a Kadian walking up Caravan Road with a spice pipe hanging out of their mouth? Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's illegal!


The answer? WAR! Lets see Nak and Tuluk duke it out again soon! If I have to fly to an imm's house and force him, at gun point, to log in as Tek and do a:

contact muk
psi You hear that, you mind-bending fuck? That's your mom screaming while I give it to her hard. Oh yeah, baby!

I WILL!

[jstorrie]

Sorry you're not having fun, man. Come back any time!

[Lord of Charas]

I remember at one point reading Moire Kurac's journal, and the variety of shit that happened over 1 PCs lifetime. From an all out brawl between Kurac and the nakki Templarate/AOD. The life, death, and entombment of a defiler (whose Tomb is still IG, and the imms will STILL try to kill you if you go there.) Man, it was off the hook back in those days.

Maan . . . Sure wish I was around back /then/. ~sighs, sadly~

That shit sounds dope. Especially that bit about the sorcerer.

[Lord of Charas]

You know, the sickest thing about this plot I've been trying to approach . . . ?
It's gonna have to happen anyway. I guarantee: You /will/ see the results of it in
Arm 2. The imm's have, or are still in the process of laying it out, even as we
speak. I guess they just don't want any IG PC touching it, adding his own flavour.
They've planned it out /just/ so, and they don't want anyone fuckin' around with it
. . . That, or they don't want this plot to resolve itself IG . . . Heh. I guess they just
want to keep the whole event strictly virtual, or something. I'll tell you straight up
though, you /will/ see it's effects when Arm 2 comes around. They'll draft up a big
story, no doubt, just to explain how it all rolled out in the off-time between Arm 1
and Arm 2. Yeah, I'm jaded; I'm looking through this world through jade-tinted
shades . . . Me, personally, I feel the life of this world has just been /murdered/, just
completely murdered, and the grand extermination hasn't even hit, yet. I just don't
see the point in playing, when I can have some virtual-ass character playing for me,
doing my plots for me . . . At least they'll probably have some basic imm-support.

[Ourla]

It seems like there's a lot of harshing on the imms going on here.  I don't depend on staff for my enjoyment of the game and I'm having as much fun playing it now as I did a few years back.  *shrug*

[Lord of Charas]

I don't depend on staff for my enjoyment of the game and I'm having as much fun playing it now as I did a few years back.

I don't either. If I had to I'd sooner die of boredom.

Anyway, that's not really the point of this, really . . .

You try getting a plot stolen right from under your ass.

You'd feel how I feel . . . You'd know precisely how
much it blows . . . It doesn't feel good. At /all/ . . .

It's a huge turn-off, people . . . A huge turn-off.

[Ampere]

[MarshallDFX]

Laughing still.  It's been ten minutes.  Hearty approval.

[Lord of Charas]

Lol. Why did you have to remind us. Those are eight years
of pure hell I don't wish to remember. Is this an omen ?
Is Arm 2 gonna take eight years to be released ?  

Personally, I've always thought it would take longer. True,
it had probably been a secret project for a while, before it
was finally announced, but look at how long Arm 1's taken
to get to where it is now. Fifteen years now give or take  ?

I mean really. Even after /all/ this time, it -/still/- feels a bit
like a work in progress, Arm 1 that is, with new updates in
code, and bugs to squash, and skills to add, and so forth.

Don't get your hopes up, guys, 'cuz it's gonna be a while.

Count on it.

[FantasyWriter]

Having been brought into the game by someone who has been playing for right at a decade now, and being at a couple pretty big APMs and hearing so many awesome stories of the good old days, I can understand where you are coming from, but taking everything I have heard, read, and experienced myself in the games, these are the observations of a two and a half year noob.


This game was suppose to end on June 1st 2007.  heh, yeah, I know.
This means that the "end game" was planned to happen then.
That means that whatever end was planned had to be slowed to the point that well... they apparently stopped.

So I can understand why the staff is so "unmoving" on the "meta game".
There wasn't suppose to be three years worth of time for PCs to affect the outcome even as much as they have.
1.Armageddon was where it was suppose to be for the break between it and 2.Armageddon on or about the middle of 2007.
That means that any drastic changes made to 1.Arm could throw things so out of whack for 2.Arm.
That it would take even more rewriting of the "building" and documentation for 2.Arm.

For example. Say Basal was built right on top Luir's is now...  PCs start a plot that ends with the area surrounding Luir's for leagues around sunk over a mile keep into the ground.  Bataal, I am sure, would have an aneurysm and die.  That's an extreme case.

Apparently, due to them being referenced in several places around the known, Ghatti already exist or existed at some point in time in the known word.
Say someone finds and eradicates them.  There went years of work spent on them.

THE GAME WAS SUPPOSE TO BE OVER BY NOW.  The end was Prophesied and planned for and was suppose to have already happened... almost 20 IC years ago.
That means everyone is now playing by ear, and things are moving at the slowest pace imaginable, if at all towards the planned end.
There are some things that -can't- be changed at this point, and for logical reasons.

Lord of Charas, I am really sorry that staff ate your plot (if they did and that that wasn't just a ranting example).  But hey, what can we do but suck it up or give up, eh?



Me personally, I wish:
1)  The dragon had shown just up, destroyed Allanak, Tuluk, Luirs, Red Storm, Cenyr, Black Wing, and all the other Permanent settlements,
2)  The game closed for a month or so while the closed those zones off and rewrote some stuff
3)  We were all running around in the wild playing rangers, delves, raiders, and rouge magickers.  
4)  Open gith and mantis back up while you're at it, if the Dragon didn't wipe them out.
5)  Let's all fuck some shit up for a while.



But heh, I'm still a noob, and that was my two 'sids.

[Lord of Charas]

This game was suppose to end on June 1st 2007.  heh, yeah, I know.
This means that the "end game" was planned to happen then.
That means that whatever end was planned had to be slowed to the point that well... they apparently stopped.

They decided to halt it because we (the players), would have simply
ended up taking the mantle of Beta testers, in an unfinished world.

The plan I assume they have now, is to bring Arm 2, to the level of
quality that is /above/ the current incarnation of Arm now presents.

This, is why I've been saying the new game will be taking so long to
complete. If Arm 1 took 15-16 years to get past this state of quality,
then Arm 2 may just take even longer, starting from scratch, with
a new code-base, and everything.

Who knows how long it could take ? The plans they have all seem
pretty damn ambitious . . . More than ambitious . . . Wild.

Some just blow my mind, especially the plans regarding economy.

[Lord of Charas]

. . . to get past this state of quality,
then Arm 2 may just take even longer, starting from scratch, with
a new code-base, and everything.

I say past, because Arm has clearly left it's golden era,
an era I sorely wish I had taken part in.  

[Decameron]

5)  Let's all fuck some shit up for a while.

Just my own personal *sigh* about the situation. From what I recall - The purpose of the present changes to the game were stated to accomplish the following: "The premise of Arm 2 is that it's a much more player driven world, which means creating the stories, making the changes and deciding the direction is done by players. This system is, in part, an experiment for us all to see how things might lean with players being the top dogs."

My question being - Why can't that experiment be now? Why the glass ceiling? Why not let clan pcs have authority over their own actions, make decisions which effect a broad range of other individuals, get to lead Merchant Houses, lead their own tribe, etc? It'd assume the same role of giving reports and the like, but would actually give them the authority to make the decisions somewhat on their own than worrying about a now invisible person looking over their shoulder. Sure, it'd be a lonely role - but there are already lonely roles in leadership. Sure, people might screw it up, they might make the wrong decision and send their organizations face first into the sand - but aren't these the type of risks that are supposedly going to be given to pcs in the new version of the game?

What's the worse that can happen? They're already ending the game.

[Lord of Charas]

5)  Let's all fuck some shit up for a while.

Just my own personal *sigh* about the situation. From what I recall - The purpose of the present changes to the game were stated to accomplish the following: "The premise of Arm 2 is that it's a much more player driven world, which means creating the stories, making the changes and deciding the direction is done by players. This system is, in part, an experiment for us all to see how things might lean with players being the top dogs."

My question being - Why can't that experiment be now? Why the glass ceiling? Why not let clan pcs have authority over their own actions, make decisions which effect a broad range of other individuals, get to lead Merchant Houses, lead their own tribe, etc? It'd assume the same role of giving reports and the like, but would actually give them the authority to make the decisions somewhat on their own than worrying about a now invisible person looking over their shoulder. Sure, it'd be a lonely role - but there are already lonely roles in leadership. Sure, people might screw it up, they might make the wrong decision and send their organizations face first into the sand - but aren't these the type of risks that are supposedly going to be given to pcs in the new version of the game?

What's the worse that can happen? They're already ending the game.