Who C Alternatives.

[Eloran]

Post ideas here.

[Eloran]

DAN'S IDEA:

who

There are 57 players other than yourself online.
There are 3 clan members other than yourself online.

Would that help?

I like this one. Simple. Elegant. Effective.

[Cutthroat]

There's a few alternatives that could get a spotlight here, like...

Personally, I think a good compromise would be to retain the command, but to have it only show a tally of how many people in your clan(s) are online.

It wouldn't reveal any IC information, but it could still be used as a tool to facilitate interaction by people in isolated tribes and clans.

All of that said, I do see the benefits of having some kind of ability to reference whether your clan mates are around, especially in a small or tight-knit community where it'd be easy to ICly ask someone.  If an OOC construct like "who c" isn't viable, then perhaps there could be something created for Arm 1 or Arm 2 where you have an NPC in a social point, like a gate, gathering hut, or meeting hall, who will remember the passage of clan PC's in a similar way to message the hunt skill returns.

Code Select Expand

Open Clearing Amidst the Huts [NEWS]
A grizzled, gray-haired man is here, stoking the camp fire with a blackened stick.
A small camp fire is here, its flames crackling quietly.

A grizzled, gray-haired man looks at you.

>talk grizzled man Jahn
You ask a grizzled, gray-haired man about Jahn.

A grizzled, gray-haired man glances over toward you and scrunches his features together.
Nodding a few times, A grizzled, gray-haired man says, in sirihish:
  "Yeah, Jahn was here probably a few hours ago."

>talk grizzled man Choros
You ask a grizzled, gray-haired man about Choros.

A grizzled, gray-haired man glances over toward you and scrunches his features together.
Shaking his head, a grizzled, gray-haired man says, in sirihish:
  "Nah, ain't seen him all day."

It would capture some of the realism that people want regarding whether someone in their tight-knit community may have seen someone else ICly without it being auto-magickal knowledge and an OOC construct.  It would also mean that you could code in the ability to avoid being seen by these type of resources if you so desired (i.e. sneaking, hiding, choosing alternate routes, etc...).

-LoD

I like DAN'S IDEA myself, too. How do we account for people in multiple clans?

who
There are 35 players other than you online.
Three of them are with you in Arm of the Dragon.
Two of them are with you in The Guild.

[Eloran]

Damnit, I was in the process if going through each and every idea. You beat me again.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I like the report idea.

I think it would be neat if it were added to bartenders, too, after a fashion.

talk clint Who's passing through

Clint says: Oh, it's been your average day,

A half-elf with green hair passed through (Player: the green-haired half-elf), and a girl with one arm (player: the one-armed woman), and a real stout dwarf (VNPC: this would be nice if a database/generator could be set up to provide random vnpc sdescs that would switch up each time).

I think that would be nice because it would offer people the chance to find out who's been out and about locally, it would take into account random vnpcs, and it would also possibly give you the chance to lay low (if, perhaps, your sdesc wasn't picked up unless you waved at the bartender or told them hi, or asked them to let people know you're about or something like that). Plus, with as centralized as bartenders are,  and as popular as taverns are, it would be a very IC way of getting this info in a place and fashion that a lot of people would likely use anyhow. I think it would work well in tandem with the clan/tribe reports which would only work for clanmates/tribe members.

note: the parts in parentheses wouldn't show up in the speech, this is just to elucidate the mix of player and vnpc.

[Gimfalisette]

I like DAN'S IDEA myself, too. How do we account for people in multiple clans?

who
There are 35 players other than you online.
Three of them are with you in Arm of the Dragon.
Two of them are with you in The Guild.

I like this the best, overall. No IC info revealed, and it's a clear pointer as to where to start for interaction.

Though in my ideal game, we might even just have a command called "interaction" which would give even more current pointers.

> interaction

There are 10 staff logged in.
3 staff available for your clan, Arm of the Dragon.
1 staff available for your clan, the Guild.

There are 50 players logged in.
5 players available in your clan, Arm of the Dragon.
3 players available in your clan, the Guild.
20 players available in your current region, Allanak.
2 rumors posted today in your current region, Allanak.

(And I don't know what else. But the idea would be to facilitate interaction and eliminate the wasted time that deters folks from logging in.)

[LoD]

One neat part of "report code" in general would be potentially hiring NPC's that linger in certain areas to work for you.  They might agree to work for your "clan" or "family" or even just your character specifically as a message-passer.

Code Select Expand

A Dank Alley [ES]
A filthy, long-nosed half-elf is here, leaning against the wall.

>talk elf job
You start talking to a filthy, long-nosed half-elf about potential jobs.

A filthy, long-nosed half-elf glances to either side, glancing at you skeptically.
A filthy, long-nosed half-elf says in sirihish:
   "Yeah, I guess I'd be interested in passing messages or something."

>hire elf
Please specify how you want to hire a filthy, long-nosed half-elf.
You can hire a filthy, long-nosed half-elf to relay messages.
You can hire a filthy, long-nosed half-elf to relay clan messages.
You can hire a filthy, long-nosed half-elf to relay secret messages.

>hire elf to relay clan messages
You don't have enough coins.

>take 100 coins belt
You take 100 coins from a pouched belt.

>hire elf to relay clan messages
You give 100 coins to a filthy, long-nosed half-elf.
A filthy, long-nosed half-elf agrees to relay messages for House Kurac for a month.

>report filthy Dropped it near the place we talked about last night, Ravyn.
You give a report to a filthy, long-nosed half-elf.

<somewhere else in the city>

The Rogue's Dirk [WS]
A stout, gray-skinned barkeep is here, wiping down a rickety old bar.
The svelte, crimson-eyed man is here, sitting at a small table.

At your table, the svelte, crimson-eyed man says, in sirihish:
   "Alright, I've been told we hired a contact here in the city.  You know the delivery we discussed?"

>emote nods simply, casting a wary gaze toward a nearby table.

At your table, the svelte, crimson-eyed man says, in sirihish:
   "Well, find a long-nosed breed down near the Warrens.  He'll tell you where it's at."

So, not only could you have official clan NPC's that would be stationed in highly-trafficked common areas within clan quarters or areas to take and give reports of those coming and going, you could potentially hire out random NPC's to work for you, or perhaps eventually attain actual clanned NPC's that operate in a certain city, village, or area to facilitate with passing messages between members in that area.  And the code wouldn't be limited only to clans, as individuals could look to hire out NPC's to pass messages with a secret word they could update whenever they wished.

-LoD

[Eloran]

Nice, but I'd much rather something like that be reserved for actual player-characters.

[brytta.leofa]

>hire elf to relay clan messages
You give 100 coins to a filthy, long-nosed half-elf.
A filthy, long-nosed half-elf agrees to relay messages for House Kurac for a month.

I don't dislike, but it sounds complicated.

But do give him a talk script that becomes active when he's subdued with HP < 90%:
A filthy, long-nosed half-elf exclaims, gibbering, in sirihish,
 "I ken give you information!"
> talk filthy topics
A filthy, long-nosed half-elf says, sobbing quietly, in sirihish,
 "I can tell yeh who I been WORKING for, what MESSAGES I been given lately, an' who I done SPOKE to this month."
>
A filthy, long-nosed half-elf says, blurting out, in sirihish,
 "Yer th' fifth fellas done shook me down this week a'ready."

[LoD]

Nice, but I'd much rather something like that be reserved for actual player-characters.

I'm imagining a situation where the PC's aren't around when you're wanting to relay the message.  When PC's are around, it's much more likely that they'd accomplish with a Way or in person.  Since we're discussing potential solutions for off-peak methods of communication, it could be a potential tool for conveying standing orders, delivering missions, or directing underlings even though you aren't able to be connected 24/7, and perhaps you don't have use of a clan board or similar such thing.

I could see these type of arrangements being very useful for burgeoning clans or unofficial groups.

I don't dislike, but it sounds complicated.

Yeah, I thought it might appear similar to crafting or other similar interfaces.  I'm not sure how complicated it would be to code, perhaps overly so -- just brainstorming other potential uses of code that could potentially serve as a replacement for a "who c" like function.

-LoD

[brytta.leofa]

There are 10 staff logged in.
3 staff available for your clan, Arm of the Dragon.
1 staff available for your clan, the Guild.

There are 50 players logged in.
5 players available in your clan, Arm of the Dragon.
3 players available in your clan, the Guild.
20 players available in your current region, Allanak.
2 rumors posted today in your current region, Allanak.

I do like this sort of Who, and think that breaking it down by clan makes sense:
- it doesn't identify people you might be trying to avoid
- it doesn't impact one way or another the "nobody's around; I'll log off" phenomenon
- it does give you a direction to focus your contacting efforts, which is the whole point

But I'm afraid that this won't address the reasons that I think Who C was removed:

- It's a command that gives "OOC" information.  Though it reduces the ability to cheat or find out interesting things about other PCs, those weren't cited as concerns by the staff.  My presumption is that anything more granular than "who" proper is going to wrankle the staff unless it has an in-character explanation for the mechanic.

- Though it's "fair" to all clans, there's no corresponding perk for the unclanned.

Neither of these bother me personally, but...

[Gimfalisette]

- It's a command that gives "OOC" information.  Though it reduces the ability to cheat or find out interesting things about other PCs, those weren't cited as concerns by the staff.  My presumption is that anything more granular than "who" proper is going to wrankle the staff unless it has an in-character explanation for the mechanic.

- Though it's "fair" to all clans, there's no corresponding perk for the unclanned.

Neither of these bother me personally, but...

Agreed, it's totally OOC information, since ICly all PCs are actually in the game world all the time even though their players aren't, and there are 500k people in Allanak. But, the need to find interaction, at all, is OOC as well. OOC problem, OOC solution.

Unclanned would get the same information, except like:

There are 10 staff logged in.
2 staff available for your clan, Independent.

There are 50 players logged in.
20 players available in your current region, Allanak.
2 rumors posted today in your current region, Allanak.

[brytta.leofa]

OOC problem, OOC solution.

You're preachin' to the choir, ma'am.

[Eloran]

Maybe if you say that enough someone will listen.

[Comrade Canadia]

Agreed as well. I do like the report idea quite a bit, and think seeing numbers and not sdescs is a good way to run a who command.

[Xio]

(talking about the who thing, internet went all weird on me and I didn't see all those replies in-between)
I've got nothing against that, but it would be especially useful if there was a subset for leader/boss-types in the clan, so you're not sitting in a corner feverishly trying to contact every single one of your bosses when none of them are even around. Still, I think it makes it more difficult for those fresh out of the gate chars that may need to contact a ranking member and have a low contact skill (and possibly low stun as well).

Just my two cents.

[spawnloser]

Maybe if you say that enough someone will listen.

Maybe if you say that enough, it'll make everyone agree. 

[Eloran]

Maybe if you say that enough, it'll make everyone agree. 

Oh yeah?! Well maybe if you..you..YO' MOMMA.

[Dakurus]

Agreed, it's totally OOC information, since ICly all PCs are actually in the game world all the time even though their players aren't, and there are 500k people in Allanak. But, the need to find interaction, at all, is OOC as well. OOC problem, OOC solution.

Unclanned would get the same information, except like:

There are 10 staff logged in.
2 staff available for your clan, Independent.

There are 50 players logged in.
20 players available in your current region, Allanak.
2 rumors posted today in your current region, Allanak.

I have some small fears that this type of information would increase the cyclical clan population and territorial population behavior.
Folks would conciously and unconciously wander looking for territories that had consistent large numbers, or clans with large numbers, while those stuck in more empty territories because of culture, background, race, or other things would be pressed further and further into depression at seeing low to no numbers, leaving the game, their clan, shunning documentation, or dying to make a new character in a more active clan/area.

Today, one already has a perception when playing based on how many folks you run into, or interact with, but being able to pull up that number frequently would take away any "hope" that you're just missing folks. I think people would make the decision to cut and run sooner rather then waiting long enough for folks to gather.

Assauge my fears, or perhaps even come up with some fundamentally new ways to "promote" interaction (locations, methods, positions, code).

[X-D]

I think it should be more basic then posted so far.

It should not even tell you which clan or where.

Code Select Expand

who
Immortals
---------

There are 0 visible Immortals currently in the world.

There are 51 players currently in the world, other than yourself.
There are 3 players currently in the clan(s), other then yourself.

It gives you all you really need to know along with falling neatly into place with the current who command.

[mansa]

You can just modify existing code;

Have the contact skill get a bonus for when you try and contact someone within your clan.

1) It helps you find your clanmates quicker and more successfully.
2) It's an In Character action, and causes you to interact with other players
3) Everybody in all clans can benefit from it.
4) Because of the bonus to contact, you can assume that someone isn't online in about 2 failures

5) Technical Point - The bonus wouldn't be applied if someone had their Barrier up / wouldn't be surpass the level required to break their target's Barrier skill.

[Reiloth]

You can just modify existing code;

Have the contact skill get a bonus for when you try and contact someone within your clan.

1) It helps you find your clanmates quicker and more successfully.
2) It's an In Character action, and causes you to interact with other players
3) Everybody in all clans can benefit from it.
4) Because of the bonus to contact, you can assume that someone isn't online in about 2 failures

5) Technical Point - The bonus wouldn't be applied if someone had their Barrier up / wouldn't be surpass the level required to break their target's Barrier skill.

You lurve contact.

[Gimfalisette]

I have some small fears that this type of information would increase the cyclical clan population and territorial population behavior.
Folks would conciously and unconciously wander looking for territories that had consistent large numbers, or clans with large numbers, while those stuck in more empty territories because of culture, background, race, or other things would be pressed further and further into depression at seeing low to no numbers, leaving the game, their clan, shunning documentation, or dying to make a new character in a more active clan/area.

I think that players already gravitate toward areas with higher populations, primarily based on GDB postings, IM conversations, what's always been available with the who command, and just a general knowledge that Allanak always has more players than Tuluk, which always has more players than the Tablelands, which always has more players than tribal humans. And, I doubt that any addition or modification to the code is going to sway that one way or the other. But it's really speculation either way.

Assauge my fears, or perhaps even come up with some fundamentally new ways to "promote" interaction (locations, methods, positions, code).

Well, I think a look around the forums supplies lots of ideas about how to promote interaction. Stuff I remember being discussed:

-- Modifications to who in order to include current regional population.
-- More frequent and more interesting public RPTs being run, both independent of plot events and as a fundamental portion of plot events.
-- Consolidation of taverns, clans, cities, etc in order to bring more of the playerbase into a single area or just a couple of areas.
-- Better newbie help and training systems to increase retention, and thus population, and thus interaction.
-- Use of pre-programmed NPCs by both clanned and unclanned PCs to ICly facilitate meetups and the furthering of plot points. (See LoD's ideas above.)
-- Expansion of the writing and reading skills, or some other way to encourage use, for long-distance or time-delayed interaction and plot furtherance.

Top of my head, there. I'm sure there's more.

[mansa]

...
Have the contact skill get a bonus for when you try and contact someone within your clan.
-snip-

You lurve contact.

I do.  Everybody has it.  It's easy to get good at it.  It's already an in-game method of communication.
It doesn't rely on distance, meaning you can communicate with anybody across the known world.
You don't need to speak with the someone, it echos someone's short description.
People can hide from it, and more.

[Gimfalisette]

I don't hate your idea, mansa, but to me the idea that there's a bonus to contact within a clan just doesn't work. What is the IC reason there is a bonus? With gypsies, other tribals, GMH family members, some bards, desert elves, and other groups that are actually related by blood, I could buy it. But why would a templar and her minions have any extra sensitivity to one another?

Unless all the soldiers in the 'Nakki militia are actually part of a convoluted system of bastard children of bastard children of bastard children of templars. Hmm...then again, they do let half-giants in.