Who C

[Jdr]

Yeah it's not socially viable for commoners to contact noble's minds just 'checking in'. I'm fairly sure I've seen documentation that discourage that kind of behaviour but you have to do it anyway to get anything done.

[jmordetsky]

I like the "report" ideas.

-- X

Yar. Report FTW.

Edit: wait wouldn't this be just like posting on the IC board?

[Lizzie]

Thunnkin's anectotal post might explain why some clans who are intended to work together, fumble around and falter miserably, while others mesh quickly and get things done with lightning efficiency. I'd say that -definitely- proves that the way things *were* was a bad thing, because it favored anyone with the who .c ability when it came to "grouping up" for RPTs that involved other clans. The one with the who .c always had the better chance of organizing its group, except of course when who .c showed no one else was around. But even then, it gave the person typing who .c the advantage of saying "Hey let's try this later, eh?" or running away, because he'd know OOCly, that he had no support at the moment.

I wouldn't mind a who that was slightly more specific than the current version of it, but worked the same way.

who
Other than yourself, there are 52 adventurers in Zalanthas.
Other than yourself, 8 adventurers in your clan are currently available for communication.


That's it. That's all I'd want to know. I'd want to know IF there were other PCs in my clan available. I don't care who they are. I just want to know if they are there.

[brytta.leofa]

Thunnkin's anectotal post might explain why some clans who are intended to work together, fumble around and falter miserably, while others mesh quickly and get things done with lightning efficiency. I'd say that -definitely- proves that the way things *were* was a bad thing, because it favored anyone with the who .c ability when it came to "grouping up" for RPTs that involved other clans.

I'm not sure that getting all clans to fumble around and falter miserably is the best way to improve the situation.  But this battle is lost.

[Lizzie]

I was codedly clanned in *three* clans that had this who.c with one of my PCs...and for the better part of the couple of weeks I had that character, I was the only PC logged in, in all three clans combined. So - I don't miss having the who.c AT ALL. There wasn't anything to miss. It was a non-issue when I had it, it's a non-issue now.

But I totally get that it should've been an all or nothing situation. Either everyone in a clan should have it, or no one in a clan should have it. If you do it any other way, you automatically give one clan an ooc/ic advantage over another clan, assuming there's more than one person in that clan logged in and visible.

Also totally get that having *some* method of assisting attempts at interaction with clannies is important. Which is why I like my idea of having a separate line on the normal "who" list indicating how many visible people in your clan are "adventuring" in the game. Without listing who or where those people are. Just the numbers.

[brytta.leofa]

Without listing who or where those people are. Just the numbers.

Yeah, that would be a good help.

[mansa]

With the recent changes to contact, it's definitely easier to find out if your clan members are on or not.

Thanks for your input on this folks.  Next reboot we will have the new starting values, any existing characters below the new values will be raised to the new starting levels.

In addition, we are adding a few bonuses to contact.  Using a character's true-name to contact them will increase your chance of contacting them.  Also, using multiple keywords will provide a smaller, limited benefit, showing that you are forming a more complete picture of who you are contacting.  Neither of these bonuses affect PVP psionic contests (such as with barrier).

[Salt Merchant]

I am one of those awful staff members who was for who c being removed.  Why?  Because it is an ooc construct.  Why should anyone automagickally know who in their clan is online at any given time, when they can just as easily take IC measures to find them?  I find the ability to do such a thing jarring and unrealistic.

In the spirit of futility, I'm going to post to this thread even though it's starting to age.

To me, "who c" seems especially appropriate for the militias. After all, the NPC soldiers are all apparently mentally jacked into TekNet and instantly know that nondescript person <x> is a criminal across the entire city. I've always explained to myself that this was some psionic ability provided to templars in a general sense (in the same way they are provided with spells) and in fact, I wouldn't have been surprised to learn that templars receive notices as soon as a criminal act is committed.

Instead, removing "who c" for the militia just further widens the gulf between players and all the pseudomagickal abilities that NPCs enjoy (e.g. seeing you in heavy sandstorms at night, being inexhaustible in a chase, and so on).

And in fact, "who c" has been a useful construct for templars who are forced to temporarily admit characters to the AoD as a workaround to the limitations of the criminal code. It's a reminder to them of characters who need to be removed again, when the players of those characters might not themselves remember or understand the need.

To those who argue it's no big difference to try to poll the membership using psi; if it is no big difference, I have to wonder why you're arguing the pro-removal side so vehemently.

But then, I've been thinking a little and I can't remember a single instance in which player feedback has caused a staff decision to be reversed over all the years I've played here. Someone feel free to correct me with an example if I'm wrong, but otherwise, with that, I conclude this thread.

[Is Friday]

I am one of those awful staff members who was for who c being removed.  Why?  Because it is an ooc construct.  Why should anyone automagickally know who in their clan is online at any given time, when they can just as easily take IC measures to find them?  I find the ability to do such a thing jarring and unrealistic.

In the spirit of futility, I'm going to post to this thread even though it's starting to age.

To me, "who c" seems especially appropriate for the militias. After all, the NPC soldiers are all apparently mentally jacked into TekNet and instantly know that nondescript person <x> is a criminal across the entire city. I've always explained to myself that this was some psionic ability provided to templars in a general sense (in the same way they are provided with spells) and in fact, I wouldn't have been surprised to learn that templars receive notices as soon as a criminal act is committed.

Instead, removing "who c" for the militia just further widens the gulf between players and all the pseudomagickal abilities that NPCs enjoy (e.g. seeing you in heavy sandstorms at night, being inexhaustible in a chase, and so on).

And in fact, "who c" has been a useful construct for templars who are forced to temporarily admit characters to the AoD as a workaround to the limitations of the criminal code. It's a reminder to them of characters who need to be removed again, when the players of those characters might not themselves remember or understand the need.

To those who argue it's no big difference to try to poll the membership using psi; if it is no big difference, I have to wonder why you're arguing the pro-removal side so vehemently.

But then, I've been thinking a little and I can't remember a single instance in which player feedback has caused a staff decision to be reversed over all the years I've played here. Someone feel free to correct me with an example if I'm wrong, but otherwise, with that, I conclude this thread.

I'm pretty sure the npc militia functions the way it does right now because it's easier to code.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Not full reverse, but I do like the adjustments to the poop code after player input.

[mansa]

I do like the full-reversal of the blood loss code.

[Dakurus]

This would appear to indicate that we don't let the players make the decisions.
It also seems to indicate that we do hear their feedback and do adjust sometimes.
Additionally, evidence exists that leads one to believe that we do read players ideas, and sometimes implement them when staff decides to, and in a way staff feels appropriate.

Not sure why folks would think it's any different.

[Eloran]

Not sure why folks would think it's any different.

Has staff presented an alternative to who-c, or have you guys recently discussed the implementation of an idea similar to one LoD offered, or more stripped down version of who-c other players have advocated?

EDIT: No, I am not counting the % bumb to contact.

[Morgenes]

Not sure why folks would think it's any different.

Has staff presented an alternative to who-c, or have you guys recently discussed the implementation of an idea similar to one LoD offered, or more stripped down version of who-c other players have advocated?

EDIT: No, I am not counting the % bumb to contact.

We did do the contact change to help facilitate communication in part in response to this issue.

However, we are considering IC alternatives like those posed by LoD, and we will implement one as we have the resources available to do so.

[Eloran]

Super excellent. Thanks.

[spawnloser]

Not sure why folks would think it's any different.

Has staff presented an alternative to who-c, or have you guys recently discussed the implementation of an idea similar to one LoD offered, or more stripped down version of who-c other players have advocated?

Just because players suggest one thing that has not been implemented does not mean that all players suggestions/feedback is not listened to.  Your comment is a backhanded way of suggesting that the staff do not.

[Eloran]

Just because players suggest one thing that has not been implemented does not mean that all players suggestions/feedback is not listened to.  Your comment is a backhanded way of suggesting that the staff do not.

My post was a question, not a comment. Learn to read.

[spawnloser]

Comments can come in the form of a question.  Stop trolling.

[Eloran]

Well, I can assure you there was no comment hidden in that question. Oops, your bad.

[Dakurus]

Stop

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Honestly, I'd like to see ALL clan NPC door gaurds be able to report to ANY clan mate who passed in the last X hours.

Before A Black Fortress
A heavy-lidded guard stands here.

>ask guard who 10
You ask a heavy-lidded guard about who's been by in the last ten hours.

Scowling, a heavy-lidded guard says, in sirishish;
   "Ten hours?!? Try five, or ... six. Or fewer.

>ask guard who 4
You ask a heavy-lidded guard about who's been by in the last four hours.

A heavy-lidded guard says, in sirishish;
   "In the four hours, I've seen Lord Makile, Mercenary Thomas, Mercenary Willie, and Aide Shanis."

I also like LoD's idea of the NPC who instantly relays way messages. This would be great.

I actually think, though, that a variety of IC ways would be best. Mix the NPC guards who remember those who pass by, the Way Operator, and maybe some other clever ideas and you have a neat network with many IC realistic forms of communication and gathering.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I like the "report" ideas.

-- X

Yar. Report FTW.

Edit: wait wouldn't this be just like posting on the IC board?

Also, I love this report idea, because while it would be similar to the IC board, it's not identical, and it wouldn't be permanent. Also, it wouldn't be on a board ... it would be an IC message, which I love.

[Cutthroat]

Honestly, I'd like to see ALL clan NPC door gaurds be able to report to ANY clan mate who passed in the last X hours.

Before A Black Fortress
A heavy-lidded guard stands here.

>ask guard who 10
You ask a heavy-lidded guard about who's been by in the last ten hours.

Scowling, a heavy-lidded guard says, in sirishish;
  "Ten hours?!? Try five, or ... six. Or fewer.

>ask guard who 4
You ask a heavy-lidded guard about who's been by in the last four hours.

A heavy-lidded guard says, in sirishish;
  "In the four hours, I've seen Lord Makile, Mercenary Thomas, Mercenary Willie, and Aide Shanis."

I also like LoD's idea of the NPC who instantly relays way messages. This would be great.

I actually think, though, that a variety of IC ways would be best. Mix the NPC guards who remember those who pass by, the Way Operator, and maybe some other clever ideas and you have a neat network with many IC realistic forms of communication and gathering.

I would like to see this, plus clan NPCs that move in and out of the clan's compound so that the doorman's description can be somewhat varied.

[Thunkkin]

Honestly, I'd like to see ALL clan NPC door gaurds be able to report to ANY clan mate who passed in the last X hours.

I pine for this.