Sid mining quotas

[Eternal Strife]

As far as the actual topic...I kind of lean towards the conflict point, but I can see how this would get frustrating.  There was a topic awhile back about the selling of raw materials in the northlands, due to those limits and essentially people stockpiling to go sell right after crashes and reboots.  I don't recall how it was fixed, or if it was, but this sounds like a similar scenario.

Automated script that made Merchant NPCs sell to vnpc population.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I never saw the Templar not buy a chunk of 'sid. Didn't even know that happened.

This.

Plus, if you take the VNPC's into account, it's really -not- like only one or two people are doing it, it seems like maybe a lot more people are mining.

[Armaddict]

Plus, if you take the VNPC's into account, it's really -not- like only one or two people are doing it, it seems like maybe a lot more people are mining.

It would be cool if that made it so that shortages were in other forms of labor, such as gathering salt.

[amish overlord]

Perhaps instead of quotas you should try a hostile takeover!

Amish Overlord 

[shadeoux]

Perhaps instead of quotas you should try a hostile takeover!

Amish Overlord 

Hell yea,

Lots of things go bump in the night out there, why night bump in the day time ehh?

[brytta.leofa]

Well the details are the sort of thing I'm not allowed to relay on the forums I believe, but in vague terms, it's possible for an unrealistically small number of players (one or two, seemingly) to completely "cockblock" all other miners in the game by waiting at the mining office before dawn, spamming "sell chunk" the moment it opens, and then go out to mine again, bringing back as much or more sid than the office will then buy the next day.

It really doesn't sound that unrealistic to me.  A bunch of VNPCs probably do exactly the same thing: mine as much as they can, and show up to stand in line before the office opens.

[Qzzrbl]

So the VNPCs actions are entirely dependent on what a few PCs manage to bring in?

Something's wrong there.

[Fathi]

I never saw the Templar not buy a chunk of 'sid. Didn't even know that happened.

[Jingo]

Gawd. If with the proposed quota, they would be making more money than most nobles.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Truthfully, from what I understand, it wouldn't take much to make more than a lot of noble stipends. I've heard of a few that... well... many people who aren't twinking or even trying to would make more than that.

/derail

[Veges]

It really doesn't sound that unrealistic to me.  A bunch of VNPCs probably do exactly the same thing: mine as much as they can, and show up to stand in line before the office opens.

The unrealistic thing is the amount of individuals necessary to feed the market, not so much their manner of doing it (though I have my reservations about intentionally and continuously monopolizing an entire venue of income in the game).

Gawd. If with the proposed quota, they would be making more money than most nobles.

How's that? With the established example of two large and five small chunks per day, a miner could earn 150 coins a day at the most. You can currently make more than twice that amount if you're the one who has the mining office rotation in check. A (smaller) personal quota would prevent someone from making a fortune and from single-handedly locking others out of the business. They could lower the prices of obsidian for all I care if that's necessary, the problem is how the current quota model disrupts gameplay.

[Fathi]

No no no to dropping the frequency that the large chunks break. Remember those things aren't just sellable to NPC merchants, they're also craftable, and there are some people who actually need them (and would buy them if only people would stop running to the NPC every damned day and notice there are actual PC buyers around).

Oh, I forgot to quote this, too.

Large chunks are a pretty necessary crafting ingredient for at least two subguilds that I've played--to say nothing of actual merchant-guild crafters.

[FantasyWriter]

Yeah, if you can find the right PCs and GMH, you'll never sell to the Templarate again.

[RogueGunslinger]

It really doesn't sound that unrealistic to me.  A bunch of VNPCs probably do exactly the same thing: mine as much as they can, and show up to stand in line before the office opens.

The unrealistic thing is the amount of individuals necessary to feed the market, not so much their manner of doing it (though I have my reservations about intentionally and continuously monopolizing an entire venue of income in the game).

Gawd. If with the proposed quota, they would be making more money than most nobles.

How's that? With the established example of two large and five small chunks per day, a miner could earn 150 coins a day at the most. You can currently make more than twice that amount if you're the one who has the mining office rotation in check. A (smaller) personal quota would prevent someone from making a fortune and from single-handedly locking others out of the business. They could lower the prices of obsidian for all I care if that's necessary, the problem is how the current quota model disrupts gameplay.

150 coins a day is more than a person in any clan could ever hope to make. And those jobs are supposed to be great.

[SMuz]

Yeah, if you're going for a quota model, I'd rather see it put to around 60-90 sids (120-180 for glass) total a day, enough to scrape by with food and water. Otherwise, keep the current 'market cornering' system. Seems slightly twinkish to mine more than 3 small chunk, 1 large chunk a day anyway, which is about as much as your char's stamina can take you on one or two mining runs. Unless you're really lucky and get 2 large chunks in a single run. If you're glass mining, then you sort of deserve to make more than a noble.

So the VNPCs actions are entirely dependent on what a few PCs manage to bring in?

PC hunting results in the area running out of animals. PC overmining seems like a similar situation. vNPCs are all virtually lining up to virtually sell their 1-3 small chunks every morning. Then one day, some big, burly twink brings in 4 large chunks and 10 small chunks to the Mines Office that same morning. Heh, the mines Templar would just raise an eyebrow.. but who cares where he got it, they'd just buy it off him and close the office for the day. The vNPCs would just glare at him, grumble about it, and do nothing about it. He broke some silent pact among miners that they're only supposed to mine enough to live.

Since some twink has been breaking the unwritten rule, the vNPCs would also break their pact to sell only 1-3 chunks a day. Each would then be mining double their daily quota, and someone does something about it, the only way these vNPCs can survive is to work harder and show up earlier to the mines office.

This is your cue. This is why your character is not a common NPC. Handle it for the sake of the vNPCs, or just handle it for yourself.

[Jenred]

Most houses pay like 300 sids on average starting... a month (or rl week-ish).

Even with this "smaller quota" thing, people can still make 500 coins a rl-day, or 3500 coins a month (rl week).

Having it being monopolized by one person making that large amount, and hence him developing enemies, is a better solution then everyone getting richer.

Eitherway, as I said before, I've never encountered the templar not buying. And if he doesn't, do what other players have said and try selling to PCs. Or storing it in an apartment. Selling sid just one day pays most average apartment rents for an entire month.

[FantasyWriter]

2RL weeks = 1 IG month

[hyzhenhok]

Most houses pay like 300 sids on average starting... a month (or rl week-ish).

Even with this "smaller quota" thing, people can still make 500 coins a rl-day, or 3500 coins a month (rl week).

Having it being monopolized by one person making that large amount, and hence him developing enemies, is a better solution then everyone getting richer.

Eitherway, as I said before, I've never encountered the templar not buying. And if he doesn't, do what other players have said and try selling to PCs. Or storing it in an apartment. Selling sid just one day pays most average apartment rents for an entire month.

Meh. Someone who earns 7000 coins a month when the typical clan salary is 300 coins, and is still going out to mine obsidian, is roleplaying poorly. Why would a commoner be taking on the risky enterprise of going out and mining obsidian after he's made a small fortune that he can live off of probably for the rest of his life? And if he's trying to get money to equip himself, he's going way over the necessary amount.

It's like playing a scavenger who walks around the 'rinth, looting all of the corpses you find and selling everything, and earning 300 coins per RL day doing so. Yes, it's codedly possible. But would a 'rinthi scavenger really have two large stored away with House Nenyuk? If you're a commoner with a large income, I hope you're blowing it on something like spice, because it just doesn't make IC sense for you to have enough money for an argosy stored in your personal bank account. It isn't an issue of the code being broken; it's an issue of poor roleplay.

Honestly I think people who do this are spoiling the game for themselves. I have much more fun when my character has very little coin, scraping by from purchase to purchase.

[Riev]

Most houses pay like 300 sids on average starting... a month (or rl week-ish).

Oh my god, you can get paid for being in a clan?


CLAN LEADERS. WE NEED TO HAVE A TALK.

[shadeoux]

Most houses pay like 300 sids on average starting... a month (or rl week-ish).

Oh my god, you can get paid for being in a clan?


CLAN LEADERS. WE NEED TO HAVE A TALK.

Thats what I said!

[Morrolan]

We coud just cap it at one piece of 'sid per game hour, meaning you sell one piece and have to get back in line.  Whatever it is you sell, you get that much per the hour.
>sell chunk
You get 10 sid.
>sell chunk
The blue-faced man says, "Back of the line."

<the next hour starts>
sell chunk
You get 50 'sid.

etc...

This seems to be a low-tech way of limiting sales.  No one has to virtually keep track of what you sell.

Morrolan

[AmandaGreathouse]

Personally, taking the price of food and water into account, I don't think that for a 300 day (ish, I know, it's actually 290ish) month, 300 sids from a merchant house is prohibitively low. In some places that's working for the price of 6 filled skins of water per month. I advocate something closer to 750 or 1000 sid per month. The pay hasn't stopped me from playing my share of clanned roles, but the pay is crap.

[Armaddict]

Clanned roles also provide security, storage (usually), training (usually) in a safe environment, and FOOD AND WATER.

[AmandaGreathouse]

For 1 sid per day.

[a strange shadow]

Keep in mind that on top of that 300 'sid a month, you're getting a free, safe place to sleep, as much food and water as you can consume, and often some nifty uniform stuff, not to mention the protection of belonging to an organization, however minor that may be at first.

In comparison, an independent pays for everything on their own, including bribes to keep his or her ass safe(er).

(nevermind, Armaddict already said it)

also: third world country folks, what is it they live off of, $1 a month?

Zalanthas is not your cushy earth corporate environment.