Only You Can Prevent...

[Nyr]

...OOC Communication.

I haven't seen any discussion about this recently, so I'd like to bring it up once again for the playerbase.  My thanks to Dakurus for assistance in crafting this.

I'd like to encourage players to not get involved in OOC communication that is detrimental to the game. 

We put forth the message that OOC communication is a bad thing.  There's certainly a wish for players to coordinate with each other and become friends, form communities, and share experiences--however, at the same time, we've seen the tendency for this to turn into something that ruins the game for people.  This could be anything, from slips of the tongue, to gossip, to lies, or even cliques and active manipulation of other players.

Even with this clear message against OOC communication, there's only so much that we can do.  We leave it up to the players and hope that they choose to control this problem themselves by not participating in it.  This isn't a "head in the sand" approach--there will be people that participate in the "OOC network" and may affect your gaming experience.  Distancing yourself from it creates a greater likelihood that you will avoid such things.

I've seen a few players write about their experiences simply cutting themselves off from other players (and the OOC network) apart from the absolute requirements.  Each of them have tended to fare better with regards to their attitudes and resentment of the game, staff, and their fellow players.  I'll let them discuss it if they'd like to

It's impossible to forget what has already happened, or ignore something that you've already heard.   What I can tell you is that in most cases, what is heard is an outright lie, a half-truth, or a poorly-remembered or poorly explained story.  It's rarely the truth.  I can think of cases where half-truths have been spread OOC (where I have definite proof that it was a half-truth, and that it was spread) and it adversely impacted other people in the game, both directly and indirectly.

What you can do to prevent OOC communication is to stay above it, and stay out of it. 

If you know that you've been spreading such information via OOC networks, you are responsible for your own actions.  You have the ability to control yourself physically--after all, you (probably) don't tell people what you are really thinking all of the time.  Take a moment and consider whether or not what you are sending should be sent.  It probably shouldn't be sent.

If you know that you've been getting such information from OOC networks, you're also responsible for your own actions.  You can tell them to stop.  You can cut yourself off from someone who is obviously breaking this rule.  You can encourage others to do the same.

[Thistle]

A lot of people will say they are against ooc communication ruining the game, and most will even avoid trying to give things away, but the sort of ooc communication which you might feel is 'no big deal', or 'I trust you not to tell', ruins the game anyway.  For instance you might think that something is harmless to tell, or a player is trustworthy enough, but even so, that player loses the mystery and discovery.

I have heard those two excuses given often by good solid role players who try to prevent the spread of such communication.  Remember the little things can kill too.

[Jenred]

I think this was a huge reason that the IRC chat-room went from something very active (15+ players sometimes) to a ghost-town. People either realized on their own it was a bad idea, or it ruined things for them. I've never liked OOC communication, and out of the IRC, which even had staff in it at times, I think its just bad. I don't know anyone here's AOL or Yahoo, and prefer to keep it that way.

[mansa]

The most enjoyment I have in this game is when I don't tell anybody who I'm playing, when I don't talk to other people about my character, or even start talking with other players.  I shut down my IM clients and just stay in-character.  The stories that I can create when I don't know who I'm playing with are better than when I know who I'm playing with, and have that Out-Of-Game knowledge affect my character's actions.

The most frustration I have in this game is when I hear stories from other players about their characters and their achievements, and compare them to myself.  I consider my characters and the actions I've done, and base that on the hearsay of other players' stories of their actions, and I start to feel like there is something that is preventing me from succeeding in game, based on Out-Of-Game actions.


When I remove myself from the IRC channel / AIM Blast Channel / etc, I don't entertain the thoughts that there might be some Out-Of-Game "game", and my enjoyment of the game goes up.   In fact, I'd state that my achievements of my characters also goes up.

[Eloran]

Some people need to not flame on the GDB.  -Nyr

**Edit** That wasn't a flame, Nyr.

Edit from Nyr:  If you have something you want to report a problem about, report it.  Don't beat around the bush by being passive-aggressive on the Discussion Board.  Thanks.  -Nyr

[Shalooonsh]

There's a horrible, overused old cliche, "the road to the Hell-Pits of Suk-Krath is paved with good intentions."

But, sadly, it is true.

Usually things like this start with something very small:


And then you end up with:


You start with giving simple advice... "with your first PC, you may want to go with something combat oriented."  Helpful, not game breaking, not anything out of bounds for certain, but it's a first step.  Next, that same player comes to you with something seemingly as innocent, but a bit more informationally heavy.  The slippery slope has begun, and sooner or later you have to determine whether you want to be seen as a jerk for not providing information, or if you want to be 'That Guy' and fall hard into the ranks of the OOC Info Peddlers.

Or it may begin with a simple query about playtimes leading to an exchange of AIM info.  After that, you start regularly trading stories of past characters.  Then not so past.  Then recent.  Then current.  Shortly after that you realize that none of the mystery remains in the game, that you've heard it all and seen it all, and the only option is to step back and simply rumor monger or to take a lengthy break before coming back.

OOC Infomongering helps NO ONE.  It's that simple.

The line between helping and mongering is a thin one at best, and it is best to leave walking it up to the Staff via emails or to the assigned Helpers.  Admittedly, neither of these sources is flawless.  Emailing staff can take a while to get a response, and Helpers can have gaps of knowledge or accidental slips where they say too much.

It is, by and large, a situation best left avoided.  By the time you recognize information as OOC, it's too late.  Your brain has already processed it.  There's no way to get it out.

The GDB forums provide plenty of opportunity to trade playtimes, and most players know this to be true as they've seen the various playtime threads.  Coordination via PM is just as handy, and can help protect you in the case of false accusations (which do happen.)

[Yam]

One time when I first started playing the game some guy and I exchanged AIM addresses to "coordinate playtimes".

Long story short, the guy turned out to be a meth head and I got to hear about how he went to jail and knocked up a 16 year old girl. I haven't seen him online in a few years so I think he died or something.

[alicedavignon]

One time when I first started playing the game some guy and I exchanged AIM addresses to "coordinate playtimes".

Long story short, the guy turned out to be a meth head and I got to hear about how he went to jail and knocked up a 16 year old girl. I haven't seen him online in a few years so I think he died or something.

More of the story: Some people your meet in MUDs might be much more hardcore IRL than their 'rinthi characters in Arm.

[Gunnerblaster]

The only spreading of information that I tend to do is telling ARM stories about my characters to non-players.

Anything IG, though, stays IG. It really nags me when someone meets you and OOC's 'what's your IM?'

There have been times when I have just flat out told them 'no'.

This isn't WoW.

This is Armageddon.

Bitches.

[Yam]

I usually ask for street addresses.

[Mood]

I think this was a huge reason that the IRC chat-room went from something very active (15+ players sometimes) to a ghost-town. People either realized on their own it was a bad idea, or it ruined things for them. I've never liked OOC communication, and out of the IRC, which even had staff in it at times, I think its just bad. I don't know anyone here's AOL or Yahoo, and prefer to keep it that way.

I think it's because it was filled with douchebags. The AIM Blast channel has more than 15+ players, and is very, very active.

[Taven]

I think the biggest problem with OOC communication is that Players feel they have to act like they're perfect about it. I don't think there are many examples of someone saying: "I used to do this, and I messed up big. Here's why you DON'T want to do this, learn from my mistake." I think that's because of the firm staff position on it, and fear of immediate retribution. I have heard players say they enjoy play more without the OOC chatter, and I know there's been examples about RPTs being ruined over OOC communication. Ironicly, I think my best ward against OOC communication has come from OOC communication.

I don't know how many other people who have encountered this, but word about OOC communication causing trouble has spread OOCly. There's a strong temptation to just say "Well, THEY obviously can't keep IC and OOC seperate, but *I* can." I've been guilty of that, because there's (as one may try to reason it) "Levels" of OOC talk. It's really easy to think that other people went to far, but you know you won't. Ironicly, the people that are talked about as communicating OOCly and causing trouble are the ones that usually think that, and say that too.

I would say that communication OOCly is addictive, actually. It starts small, and then just gets a ton bigger. I know it's tempting to tell friends what your PC is upto. I've given into this urge before, though I did try to limit the effect by cutting out "important" things, as well as names and sdescs. For me, there's always a battle between cutting off communications, and doing "harmless" communications. It's a circle that comes back to wondering how "innocent" those things are. When I'm playing a role that I feel is far more secretive or important then a normal one, I'll either block a large number of people, stay invisible on AIM, or just avoid it altogether.

I've been out of the OOC grapevine loop for most of my time playing Arm. It's amazing, however, the impact of rumors and "IC info" that may or may not be valid. It's also terrible to see what kind of effect that sort of information spreading has on the players. Honestly, it's strangely remiscent of the 7th or 8th grade, with spreading nasty little rumoers behind people's back. It gets even odder when you have a conversation OOCly about how the spreading of OOC information ruins things, while still spreading some "innocent" information with each other. It's really made me think, at least, about how "innocent" any information is.

I think the best way to keep the game as a game, yet still be able to talk to friends, is to talk about year old plus PCs, and their adventures, while not revealing anything that's IC-sensitive. It would be even better if there was no OOC communication altogether, but I think nearly every Arm player has some amount of OOC communication, even if it isn't always talking about Arm with other Arm players. To those of you that can completely cut yourselves off from OOC communication, I applaud you. Personally, I've been continiously trying to scale back, and I think that threads like this are a good reminder to everyone.

Hope that wasn't too rambling.

[Lizzie]

More than 15 players in blast chat, and it's very active...

which is one of the main reasons why I left it after being in it for a short time.

That place is more like a grade school playground. A few clusters of people who hang out and gossip with each other in IM and ruin the in-game stuff for everyone, and a few clusters of bullies who ruin the out-of-game stuff for everyone.

I'm just a little too old to hang out in the playground, and my hips haven't fit on those kiddie-swings in a few decades.

[Malken]

Is this the feel good thread of the summer?

This thread makes me twitch.

*twitches*

[Jingo]

Hell. Just playing an mmo with a few armers gets pretty fucking bad.

Also, when I notice two players are chatting outside of arm while in game, I wonder if I should make a player complaint.

[Yam]

I think this was a huge reason that the IRC chat-room went from something very active (15+ players sometimes) to a ghost-town. People either realized on their own it was a bad idea, or it ruined things for them. I've never liked OOC communication, and out of the IRC, which even had staff in it at times, I think its just bad. I don't know anyone here's AOL or Yahoo, and prefer to keep it that way.

I think it's because it was filled with douchebags. The AIM Blast channel has more than 15+ players, and is very, very active.

I'm pretty sure the AIM blast chat suffers from a different set of problems than IRC.

Actually, it has one of the same problems.

[Bushranger]

I'm pretty sure the AIM blast chat suffers from a different set of problems than IRC.

Actually, it has one of the same problems.

No bathers at the swim up bar no service?

[Xagon]

I actually have a question. There's something I'm dying to know about concerning a previous character, but I don't know how long I should wait until I bring up the topic. I've heard a year but is that an IC year, or an OOC year?

[Zoltan]

An OOC year, Xagon. Make that more if there's a good chance that the events are still IC-sensitive (sekrit magick stuff, characters still alive that were involved, the exact location of Tek's Pleasure Pit).

[Durant]

There was a great thread from way back in the day in which Halaster(?) posted succinctly how OOC communication completly ruined a real cool plotline.
i'f I could find it I'd post it, because even after all of these years I still remember that post as one of the main reasons I do not communicate with anyone outside of the game.

[mansa]

There was a great thread from way back in the day in which Halaster(?) posted succinctly how OOC communication completly ruined a real cool plotline.
i'f I could find it I'd post it, because even after all of these years I still remember that post as one of the main reasons I do not communicate with anyone outside of the game.

Mon, 09 Dec 1996
http://www.armageddon.org/HyperNews/get/general-archive1996/7.html

[SMuz]

I've seen a lot of other RPIs run well with OOC knowledge. That said, what I do love about this one is that a lot of knowledge remains secret.

I'm a bit guilty of OOC communication. Nothing serious, just talking about stuff. Sometimes Armageddon stuff, like "sorry ur char died", "yeah, if u want to join my clan, i could log in now and recruit". A lot of non-Arm stuff too.

But yeah, when you know something cool about a friend OOCly, you just get that itch to tell them. There was one major IC secret I figured about a character who played at different times to me. I had him on AIM, and I was so tempted to tell him to log into the game so that my character could confront him about it. Well, I didn't, said character probably died because of that very secret, but I'm not going to ask the player whether or not his character died. And I'm avoiding contacting the player because I don't want to know what happened.

Not really much point to it then. I just chat with people I meet on Arm over the GDB messages now; at least I have some guilt about talking about OOC stuff lest the imms catch me.

Hmm.. but could someone explain to me the rule about not chatting with a player outside the game, while you're still in the game? It seems fine to me, since I definitely don't talk about game stuff to people when my character could do it.

[spicemustflow]

I once refrained myself from murdering and robbing two people in the desert because I knew who was behind them. Also almost killed someone in their sleep but didn't, for the same OOC reasons. So, yeah, I don't want to know who plays what anymore.

[FantasyWriter]

Sometimes I really just want to not use AIM anymore at all... especially when I get a message that makes me want to shoot the sender or just stop playing at all.

[LoD]

Hmm.. but could someone explain to me the rule about not chatting with a player outside the game, while you're still in the game? It seems fine to me, since I definitely don't talk about game stuff to people when my character could do it.

There are countless ways innocent OOC communication can inadvertently spread IC information, regardless of your intent.

You might be idly chatting with someone OOCly while you're mining obsidian and suddenly get attacked in-game.  So, after the encounter is over, you might say something like, "Man, I hate raiders."  You feel that no IC information has moved between you and the other party, but you have no idea who THEY are also talking to, and the person playing the raider might say, "Man, I hate when people spam flee."

And the person both of you are talking to might be sitting in the Gaj, and notice your character now run into the room and warn people about a raider outdoors and what they looked like.

Now that person knows:

> Who you play.
> Who the other player is playing.
> How the other character is handling encounters outdoors.
> How you encounter an IC situation outdoors.

All from two statements both parties probably felt were innocent and non-specific.  The game isn't as big as you think, and it's extremely easy to discern a wealth of information from just a few off handed comments, whether you intended to convey those things or not.

It's just best not to have open lines of communication while you play, because the temptation to chat with people while there are breaks in action on the game will eventually lead you down the dark path of conveying IC information.  It's the same theory as if you're trying to lose weight, stop smoking, stop drinking, or achieve something specific; you avoid situations and encounters where you are likely to be tempted into doing the things you know deep down inside that you probably shouldn't.

-LoD