So Easy To Be Bad...

[roughneck]

You only know your safe in the dungeon if you've only been stealing/attacking NPC's.  Once you're a criminal that really stirs some shit up with PC's then it's a whole different issue.  A pc of mine was thrown in the dungeon once and OOC'ly I was almost -sure- that a PC templar was going to come along and throw me in the arena and while it never happened it very easily could have.

I think it's fine now - let the harsh sentences and punishment decisions lie in the hands of the PC templarate and militia, this makes it more fun for everyone.

It would be cool if PC templars could have criminals branded though.

[SMuz]

Branding is another reason why "tattooist" should be a subguild

[RRiplash]

I like a lot of the suggestions here.  Playing a rogue character should be dangerous, and difficult.  My first couple characters were rogues and they didn't last long.  Once I get to know the game better I can try again and have a much better chance.

I think that is the way it should be.

[Good Gortok]

There's a fine line between making criminal roleplay too easy and too hard. Personally, I think the game would benefit the most from having unlawful characters less difficult to play but more readily monitored by staff. Things have gotten better in terms of the code, but there was a time when it was so harsh that there was no active criminal sphere to be found if there wasn't a very active and ambitious player leading one of the few clans and attracting players. Since there often is not, there were and are times when those playing on the wrong side of the law are too few to be a factor.

I have played in law enforcement clans at times when nothing whatsoever was going on in the criminal milieus, and it sucked. I have tried to play criminal characters at times when noone else was around to build up the kind of playerbase you need for this to prosper, and it sucked. I have also played at times when this element of roleplay was out of control with crime so rampant as to actually be jarring and ruining certain aspects of the game - when every apartment in the city is robbed every night, when every character who stands out is assassinated just for being noticeable, or when the criminal world becomes usurped by wielders of magick or psionic abilities - and it sucked just as much.

This has always been a controversial subject. So many things in the code and in the mentality of the playerbase are so discouraging to most would-be criminal roleplayers that they simply don't try. Up until recently, the code would crush your character very quickly if you weren't extremely careful, and succesfully playing a criminal often required you to border on twinking or playing with blatantly out-of-character motivations; this has improved a lot over the last couple of years, but many are still deterred by certain obstacles such as the complete inability to remain anonymous or disguise yourself, or the fact that increasing "illegal" skills - whether steal or backstab - practically requires rigorous training specifically targeted at NPCs before they reach levels where they can even be considered useful. And the majority of the playerbase is still doing everything they can to make themselves immune to crime, or to thwart the efforts of others, whether intentionally or not. It is a rare player who can witness a failed peek or see a pair of footpads and not treat or consider the character in question as a criminal for the rest of their lives. In the minds of some, Allanak is still a village with thirty inhabitants where everything is noticed and nothing forgotten.

I feel that this is a staggered element of the game. It has never really developed beyond a highly cyclical, restricted and sporadic venue of roleplay that sees little sympathy and even less support. I think that to bring criminal roleplay to a level where you can make a character and expect there to actually be members in the Guild, or where you can expect a professional assassin to exist in the game at any given time, or where you can play a soldier and expect to experience a real player character arrest more than once every other month, crime needs to be a more playable thing and consequently more actively monitored and regulated by staff.

[jcljules]

In the minds of some, Allanak is still a village with thirty inhabitants where everything is noticed and nothing forgotten.

I feel that this is a staggered element of the game. It has never really developed beyond a highly cyclical, restricted and sporadic venue of roleplay that sees little sympathy and even less support. I think that to bring criminal roleplay to a level where you can make a character and expect there to actually be members in the Guild, or where you can expect a professional assassin to exist in the game at any given time, or where you can play a soldier and expect to experience a real player character arrest more than once every other month, crime needs to be a more playable thing and consequently more actively monitored and regulated by staff.

I agree with this -so- much. Unfortunately because of the small playerbase its hard to be a 'face in the crowd' and properly RP how many people there are in cities.

[Vessol]

For the most part I agree with the suggestions.

Someone mentioned the PC mentality regarding thieves. In defense or at least explanation I'll offer. While roleplaying and playing out a character IC at all times, for many players it can be hard to forget that it is a game. Just as some are upset when their long-lived character is killed, many are upset when the items their character works for are stolen off of them. Of course you could RP it off by emoting a bump, or likewise, but for many I'd imagine it'd be hard immediately when you have the system giving you proof of the failed crime. Perhaps a nosave option to ignore failed pickpocket/peek attempts? I'm not sure.

[Maso]

In the minds of some, Allanak is still a village with thirty inhabitants where everything is noticed and nothing forgotten.

I feel that this is a staggered element of the game. It has never really developed beyond a highly cyclical, restricted and sporadic venue of roleplay that sees little sympathy and even less support. I think that to bring criminal roleplay to a level where you can make a character and expect there to actually be members in the Guild, or where you can expect a professional assassin to exist in the game at any given time, or where you can play a soldier and expect to experience a real player character arrest more than once every other month, crime needs to be a more playable thing and consequently more actively monitored and regulated by staff.

I agree with this -so- much. Unfortunately because of the small playerbase its hard to be a 'face in the crowd' and properly RP how many people there are in cities.

Please, for the love of God. I would love see being a criminal become more viable. I currently don't think it is 'too easy to be bad' unless all you're doing is dealing with NPC's. It's nigh on impossible to deal with PC's without being instantly hunted down. I also wish masks and other concealing items actually well, concealed. Though I know thats a long debated topic.

[RogueGunslinger]

Subguild Con Artist                                              (Character)

   Con artists are good with small sleights of hand, as well as skilled
in some of the merchantly arts, such as being able to appraise items as
well as make an advantageous bargain. Also, at the con artists disposal
is the ability to craft disguise-like items,

See Also:
   guilds, subguilds, disguise-making

Skill Disguise Making                                                  (Skill)

Skilled crafters are capable of making disquises varrying
from mustaches to wigs, and can even employ the use
of makeups to further disguise themselves. 

Syntax:
    craft (item1) (item2) into (desired result)

Example:
   > craft hair glue into mustache
   
   > craft gwoshi gwoshi dye glue into a shaggy red wig

Notes: By wearing the disquise crafted, certain parts of
the sdesc will be replaced, and often parts of the mdesc
as well.

See also:
   crafting

[Ourla]

Dude, RG, for a second there I thought I had missed something very fucking cool about the Con Artist helpfile.   

I vote yes.  ... Are we voting?

[SMuz]

That gets a full yes vote from me. I was seriously considering making a con artist for my next char, until I saw Ourla's comment

[RogueGunslinger]

You know this would rock, Morg. 

[Maso]

YES PLEASE OMG.

[Synthesis]

After about a month in game, these "disguises" would be as useless as tits on a boar.

The only disguises that have ever worked are the full-mdesc-hiding masks.

[RogueGunslinger]

Actually, all you have to do for a good disguise is mask your sdesc and allow tdesc to be at both the end, and the beginning of your mdesc.

[Synthesis]

Actually, all you have to do for a good disguise is mask your sdesc and allow tdesc to be at both the end, and the beginning of your mdesc.

ctrl+c + ctrl+v + ctrl+f ownz all

[RogueGunslinger]

Bit confused by what copy paste and find has to do with what I said. Possibly this has been asked before, and an answer given. But alas your cryptic message is far to... cryptic for me to understand.

[mansa]

Bit confused by what copy paste and find has to do with what I said. Possibly this has been asked before, and an answer given. But alas your cryptic message is far to... cryptic for me to understand.

I just log everything and then go through my logs and create a database of all the characters i interact with, along with what items they have and armours they are wearing.

[Synthesis]

Bit confused by what copy paste and find has to do with what I said. Possibly this has been asked before, and an answer given. But alas your cryptic message is far to... cryptic for me to understand.

If all you can do is hide sdesc, and -add- things via tdesc, all you have to do to defeat this is to copy and paste everyone's mdesc to an excel file, then do a ctrl+f (search function) and search for a string from the center of the mdesc.

Also:  don't get me STARTED on douchebags who write cryptic mdescs, then only have sdesc keywords that are impossible to guess.  I've seen dudes with no race, no gender and no unique features in their mdesc running around with sdescs like "the hirsute, acutely-angled fellow," in a dark, hooded cloak, so you're sitting there hidden in the room trying "keyword man," "keyword elf," "keyword half," "keyword woman," "keyword lad," "keyword...ah fuck it..."backstab dark.hooded.cloak."

[RogueGunslinger]

Oh god. Do people really do this? I was so naive that I really didn't understand what Synthesis was saying.

Fucking twinks.

[Maso]

Wow. I occasionally make note of the sdesc and name of characters I have to deal with on a regular basis. But taking down everyones full mdesc?! That's the sorta stuff that can ruin the game.

[FantasyWriter]

Bring mdesc hiding items back, but make them full disguises, not mask.
These items should be in themselves illegal to wear.

The man dressed in a black ninja suit stand here.

>l man
He is wearing;
about body: a black ninja suit.

assess -v ninja

He is taller than you.
He is thinner than you.
Of course he's fecking armed.. he's a ninja!

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Oh god. Do people really do this? I was so naive that I really didn't understand what Synthesis was saying.

Fucking twinks.

Yes.

And then they call themselves by an uncoded name and NEVER lower their hood.

"Hi I'm 'The Elitest Asshole,' and I'm offering prizes to anyone who can find my mind. Good luck!"

Sometimes, they actually let these meat-socks run cloans.

[Majikal]

  the super secret sdesc hood never falling pc's, how I despise them.

Back to what really needs to be discussed.
con artist disguise = fucking win

[FantasyWriter]

i⋅ro⋅ny
1   /ˈaɪrəni, ˈaɪər-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-] Show IPA
–noun, plural -nies.
1.    the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, "How nice!" when I said I had to work all weekend.
2.    Literature.
a.    a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.
b.    (esp. in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., esp. as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.
3.    Socratic irony.
4.    dramatic irony.
5.    an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.
6.    the incongruity of this.
7.    an objectively sardonic style of speech or writing.
8.    an objectively or humorously sardonic utterance, disposition, quality, etc.

See definition #5.

I would never have expected to be doing anything with my wife's ex husband...
p.s.- He should be creating an arm account before long

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Sorry. Was running off to work and didn't have more time than to simply growl at elitist assholes. (See signature)

First off, FantasyWriter: Wtf does that have to do with anything? That belongs in the player announcement section under "Free boots."

Secondly, back to the main point: I like the idea of communal cells. Just think they should be more death proof. Like, guards come and break up a fight after one PC is KO'd, if two get into fisticuffs, and haul off the loser. Or some sort of brawl code-esque shit that stops you from beating them to death. "He's already out cold. Attacking him again would get you stomped by the guards." I could see asshole warriors throwing a kick at someone just so that they can end up in a small, locked room with the PC who just tried lifting their knife - Totally NOT something anyone would do on Zalanthas.

Also race/magicker discrimination would be a cool coded issue. Only elves and drovians should end up in the cell with the lonely half-giant lifer.

Thirdly, branding or scarring is a great idea for second or third offense of any sort of crime. A sword for murder, a hand for theft, a HG mushroom stamp for indecent exposure, something for running your mouth like a cocky dumb newb, administerable by PC Templar.  NO INSTA-DEATH. That's fucking lame. Lame auto-death is something that twinks should do to you in the rinth, not a coded aspect of the game.

As far as disguises go, I'm back and fourth. I agree to whoever said a disguise making skill would be as useless as tits on a boar.

A good disguise is not difficult at all to put together, especially on the desert world of Athas. If you don't believe me, go to this link and write up a 2 line mdesc.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/134/335239542_cb00cac8b1.jpg

Honestly, if you told me that photo was taken on Caravan Road I might, for a second, believe you.

A decent robe and face wrap, or the right kind of hood would elminate any sort of description besides height, weight, and gender, and possibly race. (though half-elves could easily be confused for either humans or elves, depending on their heights and weights, etc.) Plainly, anything can be used as a disguise. I can't tell you the number of PCs I've had who've raised their hoods and wore a black bandana over their face before the went out to burgle houses, stab people, or pick pockets. It never stopped PCs from spotting my third nipple and the "All aboard" tattoo on my [censored], but it felt right IC.

Is a cloak/hood/facewrap all you need for a good disguise? Yes. There's an extremely popular desert cloak that has flaps and strings to conceal every conceivable part of the body - and keep it tied down tight. Check the mdesc. That baby's as good as the ninja garb. Do I want to see every yahoo IG wearing one? Fuck no.  I like the idea of disguise as much as the next guy, but honestly, there's no good way of doing it.

If it were anything I'd want it to be a fifth tier branched burglar/assassin/pickpocket skill that allows you, so long as you're wearing something on nearly every body location (torso, arms, wrist, neck, face, head, about body, legs, feet, hands) you have a chance of botching out your mdesc.

"You arrange your clothing to provide maximum concealment."
or
"You'll need to cover your head, or put your hood up before you want to do that, R-tard."

I hesitate to suggest even this.