Barrier and Stun Drain

[Eloran]

Since most skills now take off stun in negatives that factor in, yet decrease with notches in skill, I think the same should be in order for barrier.

Currently, even a max barrier takes off 10 stun.

Thoughts?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I wouldn't mind.

However, i could understand it not doing so, since barrier is a mental skill, and the other skills are physical.

[mansa]

I think the number that barrier actually takes off is dependable on your stats, as I have a character who uses barrier, and it takes off a different amount than what you've posted.

I agree with the idea that it should take off less stun as you get better and better at using the skill.

[Synthesis]

The max stun drain isn't based on your skill.  I've had characters who went from newbie to branching whose max stun drain never changed.

It does seem to be based on a combination of stats, though.

However, the skills that drain stun don't do so very much if you are good at them.  Just give it some time, and it won't be too bad.

[Eloran]

I think the number that barrier actually takes off is dependable on your skills, as I have a character who uses barrier, and it takes off a different amount than what you've posted.

What do you mean? Do you mean using the skill itself takes off stun in the process, or are you referring to the stun pool's max cap that takes a hit?

The amount it takes off when I employ the skill seems random at times. Sometimes it takes off very little. Other times, a bit more. The max cap is always lowered by ten points though, regardless.

[Eloran]

The max stun drain isn't based on your skill.

I understand this. I contend that it should be.

[Eloran]

However, i could understand it not doing so, since barrier is a mental skill, and the other skills are physical.

I disagree with this line of thought.

The reasons for one's max stun lowering upon utilizing skills such as guard, watch, listen, scan, etc. is because of the mental strain that arises as a result of employing these skills. Using barrier produces a mental strain as well.

They are linked, in my opinion.

[mansa]

I meant stats, not skills.

[Eloran]

I meant stats, not skills.

Ah, thanks.

In any case, I think a change is in order.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

A barrier will always need a certian level of mental strength to maintain.

Physical skills become innate nature after a time and don't require the same level of concentration they do at first.

But I'm not exactly arguing with you. It wouldn't make me angry in the least if barrier cost less the better you became with it.

[brytta.leofa]

I'm guessing that you don't have max barrier unless you're a filthy mindworm.

[mansa]

Contact takes less and less stun as you get better and better at it.
Why is Barrier not the same?

[Synthesis]

Contact takes less and less stun as you get better and better at it.
Why is Contact broken?

Be careful with 'em pointed questions.

[mansa]

Contact takes less and less stun as you get better and better at it.
Why is Barrier not the same

Be careful with 'em pointed questions.

Hmm.  Right.  I should reread before I post.

[Synthesis]

Contact takes less and less stun as you get better and better at it.
Why is Contact not the same

Be careful with 'em pointed questions.

Hmm.  Right.  I should reread before I post.

I'm so confused now.

[mansa]

Oh, I see what you did there.  I think I would of caught it easier if you added the meme, "There I fixed it for you". 
You infered that since Psionic Skill A did one thing, and Psionic Skill B did another thing, that Skill A is not working correctly, whereas I say Skill B is not working correctly. 


I highly doubt that CONTACT will be changed, as it is has been changed a multiple of times in the past to make it easier and easier to use.  As it's the most highly used psionic skill, I judge and base all my psionic skills on it.

I've been up too late tonight and the quick wit has gone over my head.

[SmashedTregil]

Barrier takes different amount of stun (off total stun pool) depending on your endurance, and maybe other things. I've had characters who dropped 20+ stun over barrier, even when it was maxed and branched. And personally ... I dislike it taking so much, but I do not want it to be variable.

Barrier is not scan, it is much more complicated. It is also a psionic skills and I can only assume, other psionic skills work in a similar way. If you gonna change barrier, you gonna have to change them all and then ... no. I'd say barrier and contact are just fine.

[Xio]

One way I like to think about barrier's stun drain is like this. Lets say your mind is a door, barrier is essentially closing that door and putting your weight behind it as well as pushing on it. Some people are heavier than others and don't necessarily need to push on the door as hard, while others are quite light and shove on it hard to compensate. Since while the barrier is up you're constantly 'shoving', seeing as you dont really know when someone's gonna ram into the door, certain people would and shove tire out faster.

Thats just how i usually explain it to people so they can make some sense of it, instead of encasing your mind in a shell and trying to figure out how your mind keeps the shell up etc.

[SMuz]

Nah, keep the stun drain. Barrier's overpowered anyway.. the one skill that helps the most in keeping a 9-karma race from killing a 0-karma one. I don't find the barrier drain particularly annoying.

[Majikal]

I agree with SMuz, barrier's strong as it is and the stun drain makes since. Hard to be mindful,  for any period of time I imagine, of anyone trying to wiggle their way into your mind to say hello/eat your brainz. Stun drain respresents that distracted focus and mental strain very well IMO.

if I was to argue against anything it would be the drain for scan/watch/listen. I suppose the idea behind it all was to keep people from merely turning on every possible skill while they did everyday things such as a hunter being in 'scan' mode for the entirety of his hunt even though he's chilling, cooking, chatting or taking a piss behind an agafari. /slight derail

[SMuz]

Well, one thing I would argue is that it takes some practice before barrier becomes useful at all. Feels a little bit twinkish to sit at a tavern and practice barrier during off-peak moments. But I guess that applies to skills like ride as well. How the hell do you guys max out barrier?

[SmashedTregil]

barrier ? strong? You kidding me. Maybe my experience is strange, but it feels like barrier of 'any' level can 'always' be broken after 2nd or 4th try, once their contact is of significant level. If anything, barrier as a method of keeping anonymity/hidden is too weak.

[FantasyWriter]

barrier ? strong? You kidding me. Maybe my experience is strange, but it feels like barrier of 'any' level can 'always' be broken after 2nd or 4th try, once their contact is of significant level.

Even if it gets broken, it has already served one of it's purposes.

[Ammut]

I don't use barrier often enough is the impression I get.  When I am sitting in a tavern on a boring night, I'll think to myself something like, 'I hope such and such doesn't try to find me tonight.'

Then I use barrier once or twice before forgetting about it.  As far as stun drain goes, I don't really know if it is based on anything other than your skill level... mine is much too low!

[Malken]

Even if it gets broken, it has already served one of it's purposes.

Mysterious IC info is mysterious.

[Eloran]

Nah, keep the stun drain. Barrier's overpowered anyway.. the one skill that helps the most in keeping a 9-karma race from killing a 0-karma one. I don't find the barrier drain particularly annoying.

You're overestimating the usefulness of barrier, sir.

It is not overpowered: Any yahoo with marginal skill in contact can break a barrier max percentage-wise in two to three tries.

[Synthesis]

Nah, keep the stun drain. Barrier's overpowered anyway.. the one skill that helps the most in keeping a 9-karma race from killing a 0-karma one. I don't find the barrier drain particularly annoying.

You're overestimating the usefulness of barrier, sir.

It is not overpowered: Any yahoo with marginal skill in contact can break a barrier max percentage-wise in two to three tries.

And any yahoo with maxed barrier can put it right back up in one try.

[KIA]

I heart barrier.

[Eloran]

Nothing to see here.

Move along.

[Synthesis]

And any yahoo with maxed barrier can put it right back up in one try.

That's all well and good, until you become the victim of a team of somebodies who do something nasty.
But we're straying from the point of the thread.

Lame?  Sounds like strategery.

P.S. Smells like IC info, too.

[Eloran]

Lame?  Sounds like strategery.

Legal? Yes. Lame? Hell yes.

P.S. Smells like IC info, too.

I named no spell. Calm down.

[Synthesis]

Lame?  Sounds like strategery.

Legal? Yes. Lame? Hell yes.

P.S. Smells like IC info, too.

I named no spell. Calm down.

Sorry, but it's not lame.  Magick is scary and will pwn j00.  Deal with it.

[Eloran]

I love magick.

I just don't like it when people use ooc buds to break your barrier before owning "j00."

[Agent_137]

I love magick.

I just don't like it when . . .

you know what'll help? crying about it.

[Eloran]

lol youre so funny!

[Majikal]

I love magick.

I just don't like it when people use ooc buds to break your barrier before owning "j00."

It went from two pc's attacking your pc to ooc bastards fucking you over in the course of a couple posts, that's a pretty hardcore PoV change. 


End teh superderailing of doooooooooomz.

[SMuz]

Well, I wasn't able to break another person's barrier with around 5 tries (with only decent skill in contact, and that other guy probably didn't practice his barrier). Then I gave up.

Let's put it this way.. if you had a "block" command, where you could block 2 to 3 of someone's melee attacks, and that only resulted in a stun drain, that seems a little powerful to me. I've never had to go up against brainz-eating spells, but everyone told me that's what barrier was supposed to help against, and IMHO, just delaying a psionicist for 5 seconds as he slams my barrier while I slice into him makes the skill worth it.

[Eloran]

Well, I wasn't able to break another person's barrier with around 5 tries (with only decent skill in contact, and that other guy probably didn't practice his barrier). Then I gave up.

Decent meaning...what? 10 hours into a character? 10 days? Contact can and will override barrier between two characters with equal skill. Just trust me on this.

Let's put it this way.. if you had a "block" command, where you could block 2 to 3 of someone's melee attacks, and that only resulted in a stun drain, that seems a little powerful to me.

You already do have such a command:

Code Select Expand


>help shield use

Skill Shield Use                                                   (Combat)

   This automatic skill is invoked whenever your character is in combat.
All blows which are about to land on your character are checked against a
complicated system of relationships, including the "shield use" skill. A
successful shield use can get your shield up, blocking a blow from hitting
a more sensitive area of the body. Note that it may not negate all damage,
but it will reduce it from what it would have done.

Note:
   Wielding the shield (i.e., "ep shield") increases your character's
chance of success.

Delay: special

See also:
   skill parry


What's even better:

It doesn't drain stun!

[SMuz]

OK, fine, blocking melee attacks was not a good example. You win that one. Shield use does drain stun though, but only under a strong hit.

I don't think shield use works against fireballs (never tried it), but if it does, then I withdraw my statement But in a similar sense, I'd take it that mundanes would have a very low barrier cap. Much like you wouldn't expect a non-warrior type to have shield use. Now a psionicist.. he'd have awesome barrier. Probably enough to eat the mind of anyone who tries to get past it.

[Fathi]

OK, fine, blocking melee attacks was not a good example. You win that one. Shield use does drain stun though, but only under a strong hit.

I don't think shield use works against fireballs (never tried it), but if it does, then I withdraw my statement But in a similar sense, I'd take it that mundanes would have a very low barrier cap. Much like you wouldn't expect a non-warrior type to have shield use. Now a psionicist.. he'd have awesome barrier. Probably enough to eat the mind of anyone who tries to get past it.

There is a pretty huge problem that would arise from setting up the skill in the way you described. I'm not gonna go into details, but I imagine you can figure out why.

[Xygax]

Lame?  Sounds like strategery.

Legal? Yes. Lame? Hell yes.

P.S. Smells like IC info, too.

I named no spell. Calm down.

Yeah, that was IC info.  It's kinda too late to redact, so I'm leaving it as an example.  Don't do this.  And don't do it, then ask people to calm down.  You may not have affected Synthesis' play, but you most certainly have introduced a new concept to someone who otherwise might never have imagined it.  Totally unacceptable behavior.

-- X

[Good Gortok]

On that note, I think it might be worth revising the amount of stun reduction you suffer from psionics with low stats. It seems to depend on some combination of wisdom and endurance, and if you happen to have really low scores in one or both of these, barrier or contact will shear off as much as 40 points from your pool. This can be quite small to begin with if you rolled poor endurance, and I have had characters with a max stun of as little as 40-50ish when running a psionic ability. This is an almost unplayably small amount of stun to have at your disposal.

[Xygax]

This penalty is improved by improving your skill.

-- X

[Good Gortok]

Oh. Is that new? I haven't had a character in quite a while.

[Xygax]

Nope, not new.

-- X

[Eloran]

It's kinda too late to redact, so I'm leaving it as an example.

In a gesture of good faith then, I'll delete the aforementioned snip on my own.

Xygax: What are your thoughts on lowering the -max- stun taken off once one gets better at barrier?

[Xygax]

We already do that, too, or else I am misunderstanding you.  (let's not get more IC, email me about it)

-- X