Dung.....

[Eloran]

Invisible shit makes no sense.

Bring on the shit.

[Elgiva]

Invisible shit makes no sense.

It's not invisible. It's just not very obvious. Similary as you can't see all that small stones in the room until you forage.

[Jingo]

I'm still in favor of "brief poop".

srsly.

[Eloran]

It's not invisible. It's just not very obvious. Similary as you can't see all that small stones in the room until you forage.

That's not the same thing, and you know it.

Having crap not visible unless you assess, count, or look in the room is silly.

It totally eliminates one of the purposes shit was coded for in the first place: Being able to track quarry through a given area.

I fail to see why this addition to the game is even viable if it's been made practically invisible at the behest of a select group of players.

[Vanth]

99% sure I'm alone in this: Anyone else think that individual poops shouldn't be hidden? (i know you can see them by hitting 'look dung')
Not a fan of the fact that it got changed thanks to the complaints, but its moreso IC reasons than just some OOC pet peeves of mine that drive my desire for poo to be seen when not in a mound.

It wasn't done because of complaints, or not just because of that.  The same debate that has been going on here, has also been happening on the staff side.  We're going to monitor the change, as always, and see how it goes.

[a strange shadow]

Just like you don't need to 'hunt' to see tracks through a room? Oh, wait...

I'm going to say the same thing we "complainers" were told, Eloran - quitcherbitchin'.

[Vanth]

It totally eliminates one of the purposes shit was coded for in the first place: Being able to track quarry through a given area.

This is not one of the reasons that poop was coded; it was a side effect.  The 'hunt' skill is what should be used to track quarry.

[Eloran]

This is not one of the reasons that poop was coded; it was a side effect.  The 'hunt' skill is what should be used to track quarry.

I'm well aware of that Vanth. I should have changed my words to reflect what I meant.

It was a side effect, but a much welcomed one, might I add. I found that reason alone to be a great reason to keep the crap in game.

It's just rediculous that a few vocal members of the community can have such a profound impact on an addition to the game. The "addition" itself has practically been neutered, and I hate that.

[a strange shadow]

99% sure I'm alone in this: Anyone else think that individual poops shouldn't be hidden? (i know you can see them by hitting 'look dung')
Not a fan of the fact that it got changed thanks to the complaints, but its moreso IC reasons than just some OOC pet peeves of mine that drive my desire for poo to be seen when not in a mound.

It wasn't done because of complaints, or not just because of that.  The same debate that has been going on here, has also been happening on the staff side.  We're going to monitor the change, as always, and see how it goes.

Speaking of vocal, Eloran, a rough count shows that you've been a most prolific poster in this thread.

[rishenko]

Having crap not visible unless you assess, count, or look in the room is silly.

I've lived in a few apartment complexes that have pets.  People take their pets onto the greener areas to shit.  I don't really notice the shit unless I am walking through those specified areas and glancing down (or stepping in it).  In Zalanthas, the grass is generally tall (not at all cut), and the sand dunes have constant wind coating damn near anything on the ground for any specified amount of time, rather the opposite of well-trimmed lawns that are still capable of hiding a decent amount of dung.

So, no, it's not silly to require somebody to look for shit - just like stones or tracks.

[Eloran]

Speaking of vocal, Eloran, a rough count shows that you've been a most prolific poster in this thread.

That's because I feel it prudent to defend the code due to the potential for roleplay it can foster. Go read the other threads that shit on (yeah,  ) the code addition.

In any case, nice gotcha.

[Eloran]

I've lived in a few apartment complexes that have pets.  People take their pets onto the greener areas to shit.  I don't really notice the shit unless I am walking through those specified areas and glancing down (or stepping in it).  In Zalanthas, the grass is generally tall (not at all cut), and the sand dunes have constant wind coating damn near anything on the ground for any specified amount of time.

Did you intentionally forget to mention the plethora of roads in Zalanthas that have untold piles of shit littering the path?

Why are we comparing Zalanthas to Earth? One is more advanced technologically/civilized than the other.

Let's also not forget that the size of a beetle's stool will be significantly larger than that of a dog. Likely the size of a horse, or an elephant.

Ever been to a parade with horses? If you have, you get where I'm going with this.

But we're going in circles.

There's no point in me even bothering at this point.

[rishenko]

I've lived in a few apartment complexes that have pets.  People take their pets onto the greener areas to shit.  I don't really notice the shit unless I am walking through those specified areas and glancing down (or stepping in it).  In Zalanthas, the grass is generally tall (not at all cut), and the sand dunes have constant wind coating damn near anything on the ground for any specified amount of time.

Did you intentionally forget to mention the plethora of roads in Zalanthas that have untold piles of shit littering the path?

Why are we comparing Zalanthas to Earth? One is more advanced technologically/civilized than the other.

Let's also not forget that the size of a beetle's stool will be significantly larger than that of a dog. Likely the size of a horse, or an elephant.

Ever been to a parade with horses? If you have, you get where I'm going with this.

But we're going in circles.

There's no point in me even bothering at this point.

Since we're going in circles... I thought we were talking about tracking quarry through the wild as being your main argument in favor of visible shit? 

If so... Let's not forget that a beetle's stool, horse's stool or what have you will still blend in extremely well with knee or thigh high grass... or get covered by blowing sand within an hour of game time, if that... or would simply blend with the craggly, basalt rocks that form oh so many badlands.

[Synthesis]

Stop talking shit.

[Eloran]

Let's not forget that a beetle's stool, horse's stool or what have you will still blend in extremely well with knee or thigh high grass.

It blends in? How?

It doesn't blend, so much as remain veiled/partially hidden by blades of grass. I think you're overestimating the thickness of grass on Zalanthas in general. In any case, I'll concede to this point. However, what about:

1) Not every zone in game has thick tufts of grass.

2) What about sparse foliage in scrublands?

3) What about barren soil with little sand and otherwise open areas in the game?

... or get covered by blowing sand within an hour of game time, if that... or would simply blend with the craggly, basalt rocks that form oh so many badlands.

Not all tracking is done in the wildnerness. You still haven't acknowledged my point regarding roads. Would a pile of crap be covered up on the North Road, or Dol Takar?

You've consistently listed only examples that support your stance on the subject, yet have failed to acknowledge ways in which crap would be seen.

[rishenko]

I'll freely admit that crap would be seen on roads. 

In fact, I will freely admit that shit would be easily seen in areas that are completely flat, practically devoid of vegetation or rocks or other features that could break up the terrain.  Otherwise, shit just isn't that visible unless the above constraints are met or you are -right- on top of it.

Do I think that those few areas should constitute making shit visible everywhere, throughout the entire game, especially taking into consideration its size?  Surely not. 
Would it be spiffy keen if the imms flagged those kinds of rooms to allow shit to be seen to somebody just wandering along?  Surely would. 
Would I want to task them with it?  Surely not. 
Do I much prefer not seeing shit everywhere in the game?  Surely do.

[musashi]

I lika tha changes. 

[Xio]

I'm just gonna say one thing before I stop.

If dung is invisible to the naked look (i.e., an untargetted look) because its too small to be noticed without specifically looking for it, shouldn't this include single obsidian coins, small piles of sid, etc etc. I'm not really complaining in this statement although it does sound like it, I'm just curious as to why only non-mounded dungs are hidden from view but other small objects which would go without notice unless you actually looked down at the ground and went 'Hey, look, a half-eaten steak thats still warm!'

-Fin

[Comrade Canadia]

Using this kind of logic, it can be assumed that there's an argument for coding every possible common object in a every room in the game. There's a cutoff point. Crap in low-tech cities is -everywhere-. I like the fact it's hidden because it means people who want to interact with it can, but it fades into the background as a part of everyday life. Noticeable objects should be odd, of immediate utility, or something you interact with regularly. I don't think shit falls into this category. If it does, then there's an argument to continue coding every tiny little detail ad infinitum, which I don't think is the direction the game needs to go in.

[staggerlee]

Yeah, I agree that this is a very positive change and good approach to several different problems that have arisen.  Very elegant.

[Riev]

FEATURE CREEEEEEEEEEEP

[amish overlord]

According to this it is valuable



The pot of sid at the end of the rainbow?

Amish Overlord 

[Aesuna]

I, personally, miss seeing dung everywhere. I support a command that lets us toggle between automatically seeing dung in a room and not.

[rishenko]

I, personally, miss seeing dung everywhere. I support a command that lets us toggle between automatically seeing dung in a room and not.

Oooh, I could buy into that.

[Eloran]

Code Select Expand



Amos/101/armed>help nosave

Nosave                                                              (Combat)

   The nosave command allows you to control whether your character will
attempt or refuse saving throws you are entitled to for a number of
different options.

Syntax:
   nosave [status|off|all|<option>]

Valid Options include:

   arrest:
   Use this option to willingly surrender to soldiers of the city
you are in.  You will be automatically subdued if one tries to
subdue you.  Resisting arrest (by trying to break free) will
turn off this option automatically, and possibly irritate
soldiers, bringing bad consequences on yourself.

   climb:
   This will cause you to fail all climbing checks.

   magic:

   Your character will not resist any magick spells cast at you.
This can be beneficial if the spell is beneficial and you don't
want to cast off it's effect.

   psionics:
   Your character will not resist any psionic ability used on you.

   skills:
   Your character will not resist any mundane skills used on you.
This includes skills such as kick & bash.

   subdue:
   Your character will not resist being subdued, and no criminal
charges will be levied against someone trying to subdue you.
Note that if you are unconscious, this is automatic.

   theft:
   Your character will not try and stop or detect theft.  This can
be beneficial in the case where someone is roleplaying stripping
you down when you are unconscious.

   shit:
   Your character will not try and resist smelling and/or seeing shit
within a given area. This can be beneficial in cases where individuals
prefer using the optional roleplay props with their respective
characters. Note that if you are unconscious, shit can and likely will
be rubbed in, around, or near the vicinity of your hair, genitals,
and/or chest in a festive manner.

Notes:
   Typing nosave by itself will show you your current status.  You can also
type 'nosave status' to get your current status.

   To turn all options on, type 'nosave all'.

   To turn all options off, type 'nosave off'.

See also:
   criminal, skill climb, stat, surrender, shit