WAGUNS. VEEGUNS. WAYGUNS.

[Lakota]

I personally think having a multitude of wagons rolling about in the game would be all sorts of fucking cool.

Can you imagine what this would do for raiding? Merchants would have to hire pc guards to stand watch on the entrance and ward off any attackers.

Raids could be planned and carried out against caravans.

My proposal: Make wagonmaking, you know, not useless. Flesh it out and complete the skill so that the character can make more than just a few wheels.

Give independents the ability to construct their own wagon, given they have the space and enough resources. No more jumping through unrealistic hoops just to get a one-room shack on wheels. If the player has the obsidian, will, ambition, and manpower to accomplish, I think it should be supported unquestionably.

[Qzzrbl]

I could roll with this.

[manonfire]

I would -love- to have more wagons in-game.

Love, love, love, love.

[tortall]

I think the reason behind not making it viable is because a new "area" would have to be coded to officially make it, which make a whole new work load for the imms. Plus if every crafter who could make a wagon, did, there would be a butt load of wagons rolling about!

Add: I would also love more wagons, though I don't think they should be extremely available.

[brytta.leofa]

Rickshaws.

[Vanth]

If we ever did implement this, they would probably be more like silt skimmers.

(For those of you who never got to go on a silt skimmer, they were just like table objects, but you could pilot them around.)

Is this a type of wagon that people would be interested in?

[Ashes]

A little shack-cart like that would be awesome, actually.  Makes more sense for anybody without (impressive) means to throw together a rickety old piece of shit to carry their goods from the farm to the city.

[Gimfalisette]

If we ever did implement this, they would probably be more like silt skimmers.

(For those of you who never got to go on a silt skimmer, they were just like table objects, but you could pilot them around.)

Is this a type of wagon that people would be interested in?

Yes, very much. Assuming it can carry both people and some limited quantity of cargo.

[Cutthroat]

If we ever did implement this, they would probably be more like silt skimmers.

(For those of you who never got to go on a silt skimmer, they were just like table objects, but you could pilot them around.)

Is this a type of wagon that people would be interested in?

That would be great if a cart or something like that could be crafted by someone with the know-how.

[brytta.leofa]

Is this a type of wagon that people would be interested in?

Very much.  It's great color, and takes transporting noncombatants out from under the de facto GMH monopoly.  (How do you, as a raptor-fearin' civvie, get to Luirsfest?  Hitch a ride on one of two argosies, more or less.)

I imagine that these would be objects that wouldn't save through crashes/reboots unless parked in a save room?  (Unlike the multi-room wagons, AFAIK.)

[manonfire]

If we ever did implement this, they would probably be more like silt skimmers.

(For those of you who never got to go on a silt skimmer, they were just like table objects, but you could pilot them around.)

Is this a type of wagon that people would be interested in?

If a single-room, enterable wagon wouldn't be doable, that concept would work perfectly.

[Thunkkin]

I could imagine a few generic varieties:
- a small cart
- a large cart
- an open-top wagon

Then, depending on the wood used and the color of paint used, crafters could create a few varieties to help keep things apart.

- an orange cart of baobab wood
- a bright green-painted, pymlithe cart
- a blue and grey open-top wagon

Fun!  Then when you arrive somewhere, the merchant really would need guards or a servant to help unload the cart and bring the goods in to safety.  The danger would be stabling them, I guess?

[Krath]

OH that would be BADASS VANTH!

[Lakota]

Yes, Vanth, I'd love that.

[mansa]

I hope there will be ways, as raiders, to stop wagons.

Yayayaya.!

[Ashes]

>throw spear wagon wheel

[FantasyWriter]

A pull cart taxi service situated outside the sanctuary would rock.
We would have to have cymbal hats for the 'drivers' though.

[staggerlee]

I hope there will be ways, as raiders, to stop wagons.

Yayayaya.!

>guard north

[Lakota]

>guard north

Merchant spams north until your guard check fails.

[Cutthroat]

If wagons can be created, they should be able to break down or be destroyed.

Easy solution: give wagons HP and stamina (to reflect the stamina of the mounts pulling it).

[Lizzie]

There's a "carriage" in the south, that I think has an erdlu hitched to it. Or used to have a kank hitched to it, or something like that.

If players were able to craft *small* carriage-type things, and hitch them to appropriate mounts...so those mounts would still be subject to getting tired, would -not- be able to have something packed on it because it's already burdened with dragging a carriage along..

But the carriage could hold a pilot's bench, and perhaps a box and a water cask...or a shelf along the back wall of the structure. It would be semi-enclosed, just like an old fashioned surrey. 2-3 person capacity. A companion and a hired guard, for instance.

No "rooms." No room to put a mount ON it. The mount would be pulling it. And the mount pulling it would still need to rest at times, though possibly not -as- often since it's not bearing the load on its back and the wagon has wheels. So maybe if this wagon went off-road, the mount would get tired a lot more quickly than if you were riding it off road. But if it followed the road, it could make it from Nak to Tuluk without breaking a sweat.

[Lakota]

If wagons can be created, they should be able to break down or be destroyed.

Easy solution: give wagons HP and stamina (to reflect the stamina of the mounts pulling it).

Can you imagine the code letting you set one on fire?  

*drrooOOOOOOLS*

[brytta.leofa]

I hope there will be ways, as raiders, to stop wagons.

Guard; plus, it sounds like those "in" one would be just as vulnerable as people sitting at a bar/table.

A new bright green-painted, pymlithe cart has arrived from the south.
> guard north
> look
The North Road [NSEWUD]
  A dusty road stretches north and south across the rocky wasteland, creeping you out with its ominously smooth stones.
A new bright green-painted, pymlithe cart is here.
The tall, muscular man is sitting in a new bright green-painted, pymlithe cart.
> look cart
It's bright, green, painted, and pymlithey.  Definitely pymlithey.
On a new bright green painted, pymlithe cart:
  the tall, muscular man
  many large chunks of unworked obsidian
> shout Yeh got t' pay the toll!
You shout, in sirihish,
  "Yeh got t' pay the toll!"
You prevent a new bright green-painted, pymlithe cart from moving north.
You prevent a new bright green-painted, pymlithe cart from moving north.
> ep crossbow
> shoot amos
You steady yourself and take aim...

[brytta.leofa]

Can you imagine the code letting you set one on fire?  

> hold torch
> light torch
> throw torch cart

> get waterskin
> pour waterskin cart

[mansa]

Can you imagine the code letting you set one on fire?  

> hold torch
> light torch
> throw torch cart

> get waterskin
> pour waterskin cart

>pour waterskin cart
The cart lights up with more flames as you pour your whiskey into the burning.
You are now on Fire!

[Krath]

What if they made the carts like tents? Able to be hit and destroyed?

[staggerlee]

What if they made the carts like tents? Able to be hit and destroyed?

I wouldn't be particularly impressed if you could destroy my carriage with a bone spear.

[Ashes]

Maybe certain skills, based on race/stats could affect wagons.

With an ear-splitting roar, the monstrous, black-horned half-giant barrels into a rickety wooden cart's side, its spoke snapping loudly as it turns over onto its side.

>bash cart

[Qzzrbl]

What if they made the carts like tents? Able to be hit and destroyed?

I wouldn't be particularly impressed if you could destroy my carriage with a bone spear.

With a sturdy enough spear, all you'd have to do is toss one in the spokes of a wheel. Shabam, disabled cart.

But now that I think about it.... What if the wheels are just solid slabs of round wood?

[number13]

I could see the mount code being reused for small-ish wagons, with a bench-like object being dragged behind for passengers to sit on.

craft ticket ticket frame into beetle-driven cart (with 'ticket' belonging to beetles. Or inix.)

You be able to pack them, stable them, attack and 'kill' the cart, charge with them, knock the pilot off via normal combat code.

[Agent_137]

heh. you guys are making this really fucking complicated, which will only delay the implementation.

I hope vanth's idea can be implemented in stages. Wagons SOON, commands to light them on fire LATER.

[Winterless]

Totally and wholeheartedly agree with the OP. Read as: Yes, please.

[Jingo]

Where do I go to get my way-gun?

[Winterless]

I wouldn't mind a silt-skimmer type wagon. I think that would be neat.

[Krath]

heh. you guys are making this really fucking complicated, which will only delay the implementation.

I hope vanth's idea can be implemented in stages. Wagons SOON, commands to light them on fire LATER.

Genius...Not being sarcastic either.

Krath Endorses this.

[Clearsighted]

I've been told that a wagon that has those rooms in it, (not even an Argosy) costs 200,000+ obsidian and requires a year to build. So having a bunch rolling around is probably not going to happen.

Carts though, that function like tables, I'd like to see.

[Angela Christine]

I've been told that a wagon that has those rooms in it, (not even an Argosy) costs 200,000+ obsidian and requires a year to build. So having a bunch rolling around is probably not going to happen.

Carts though, that function like tables, I'd like to see.

The cost for the current multi-room wagons isn't totally unreasonable, given that they are incredible marvels of engineering.  No metal wood screws or carriage bolts, they have to be assembled entirely with dovetailing, pegs, and glue.  (Not to mention the whole invulnerability thing).  A smaller single room or single "table" style cart would be fantastic, and could probably be sold for tens of thousands instead of hundreds of thousands. 


Dealing with invulnerability would be easy enough: make it so anyone in the room can enter the cart.  Then the raiders are in your cart with you, making it difficult to ignore them. 

To keep people from abusing that feature to carry the whole byn in a rickshaw, and to keep them from simply running the wagon -- raiders and all -- to the nearest city,  make it so that if the cart is overloaded it can't move.  For example the cart might be able to hold 2 people, or 500 stone total, or some other arbitrary amount.  However, even once the cart is "full" a few more people can pile in, but once they do the cart doesn't move anymore.    If you want to move you have to get some of the people to leave, or else kill them and throw their corpses off.


Adding stabling code to public wagon yards, so that your cart can be put under NPC control for a fee would be good.  That would probably mean you'd need to totally unpack the cart, but that is a fair trade for being able to store the cart itself.  Public wagon yards already exist, they would just need an appropriate NPC added.

[Bogre]

If we ever did implement this, they would probably be more like silt skimmers.

(For those of you who never got to go on a silt skimmer, they were just like table objects, but you could pilot them around.)

Is this a type of wagon that people would be interested in?

How about if they were more like chariots, kind of a room that moves?

Or, like others said, a couple of stock ones that can be built.

[Winterless]

I think a silt-skimmer type deal... with maybe a tent on top would be good.

[Angela Christine]

I think a silt-skimmer type deal... with maybe a tent on top would be good.

Something like this?










I like it, because then we could do this:

[Winterless]

lol, perfect, AC. Or should I say... purrfect. 

[Reiloth]

I've been told that a wagon that has those rooms in it, (not even an Argosy) costs 200,000+ obsidian and requires a year to build. So having a bunch rolling around is probably not going to happen.

Carts though, that function like tables, I'd like to see.

The cost for the current multi-room wagons isn't totally unreasonable, given that they are incredible marvels of engineering.  No metal wood screws or carriage bolts, they have to be assembled entirely with dovetailing, pegs, and glue.  (Not to mention the whole invulnerability thing).  A smaller single room or single "table" style cart would be fantastic, and could probably be sold for tens of thousands instead of hundreds of thousands. 

I would venture it'd be awesome if a small cart that could hold 100 stones was around 5000 coins.

[Voular]

A one room wagon that can be "stabled" somehow would be awesome.

[Angela Christine]

I would venture it'd be awesome if a small cart that could hold 100 stones was around 5000 coins.

The average PC weighs more than 100 stone, including their equipment.  Most pack animals cost less than 1000 sid, and can carry more than 100 stones without the help of a cart (maybe not erdlus).  In fact, most PCs themselves already carry 60 stones in a backpack that costs less than 100 sid, and many are strong enough that they can easily carry more than 100 stone of stuff in various packs and bags they are carrying.

I think any cart would have to be able to hold at least 500 stone (including passengers) to be useful.  A cart that had 100 stone of cargo space plus the ability to hold up to two passengers would in effect have over 500 stone capacity, since the PCs could load themselves to heavy encumbrance before boarding.  If at all possible it would be better for the cart to have a weight limit that includes passengers though, otherwise you get the odd situation where a cart driven by a single low strength human effectively holds much less than one driven by two strong dwarves.


In order to be useful it has to be as good as or better than the solutions we have now.  Things that could make it better:

• Infinite movement points.   
  
• Invulnerably.   



• Less expensive than current solutions.  Not going to happen, a cart made of wood cant possibly be worth less than the logs used in its construction, and I assume even a small cart takes a bunch of logs.



• More security than current solutions.  A wagon with a door that locks has more security than a mount, in that you can usually leave them alone for a minute or two without an opportunist making off with your wagon, because few opportunists have the skill to pick the lock while any idiot can go "hitch mount, w, w, w, w.  It seems doubtful that "cheap" wagons would have a lock though, never mind a good lock, because a good lock alone is a marvel of craftsmanship that costs thousands of sid.  Without a lock, the only security offered by a wagon is that few people have developed the piloting skill, so they will likely be moving slowly.   



• More weight capacity than current solutions.  This seems the most likely benefit.  All PCs can potentially control at least two mounts, one ridden and one hitched, so a useful cart should be able to haul more weight than two "average" mounts (including the weight of the rider/driver).

Obviously a cart should have limitations a mount does not have.

• Terrain: A cart isn't useful in the parts of the desert where the ground is loose sand.  A sledge might be, but not a wheeled cart.
  
  Incline:  An animal, even a mounted animal, can manage steeper terrain than that same animal could successfully pull a cart.
  
  Holes:  Most mounts can be led out of shallow holes, if you are willing to hang around all day making hundreds of attempts for them to make their climb check.  A cart probably can't make it out of a shallow hole without some sort of mechanical assistance.  Indeed, the less expensive carts used by unaffiliated commoners may be quite likely to simply break into bits if they fall any distance at all.  (Ideally a "broken cart" could be salvaged into at least a few planks, a wheel, and a load of firewood.)
  
  Size:  Even a small cart will be bigger than the animal pulling it.  Some openings that a mount or half-giant can squeeze through, a cart will not be able to pass, because a rigid cart can not be squeezed.
  
  Easy to park:  Nearly every village has a public stable, public wagon yards are less common.  If possible, stabling a wagon should cost more than a mount since t is bigger and probably includes a mount, 50 sid seems fair.  (Note: if the wagon uses "real" animals, and the animals have to be stabled separately, then 20 sid for the wagon alone might be fair).
  
  Logging out:  Many towns also have places where you can simply log out while riding your mount, and it will disappear with you.  What happens to a wagon when you log out? 

[Angela Christine]

Possible solution for the wagon/animal problem:

For a while there were wagons that were distinct from the animals pulling them.  You had to attach actual animals to the wagon, and those animals had finite stamina.  There were some cool features with this system, but the code was never completely finished and they were eventually withdrawn.    All the wagons in common use now have virtual animals.

A quick and dirty fix could be to have self-propelled wagons that will only move if an animal is following the wagon.  You hitch an animal to the wagon   and the two are attached.  When you give the order to move the wagon, the wagon checks that it is hitched to an appropriate beast, and then it moves and the beast follows.  When the animal runs out of stamina it stops moving, just like if it was following a PC, so the wagon moves one room and then it stops, because the next time it checks there is no animal attached.  This would take a long time to happen as the animal would not be encumbered by the wagon, but it would be better than infinite movement points.  When you arrive you park your wagon, unhitch your mounts and stable them normally.  If stables or wagon yards will stable carts they stable just the cart, each animal attached to it would have to be stabled individually.

There would also be a benefit for raiders, in that you can attack the animal so it stops following the wagon, which will force the wagon to stop as well.  Wagoners could mitigate this danger a little by having multiple animals hitched to the wagon, since it will keep moving as long as at least one is still attached, but there would still be risk involved (and even if the wagon gets away, the mounts left behind have value themselves).  Less violent raiders could simply yell threats to your animals unless you pay their toll, potentially allowing the wagon itself to proceed intact.  It would probably even be possible for a raider to hitch your animal to themselves, if they have hitch space.

There would be some oddities, like the wagon moving one room farther than the creature that is RPed as pulling it.  And the  movement messages would be wrong:  A wagon moves west, an ox moves west; A wagon has arrived from the east, an ox has arrived from the east, etc, instead of An ox drawn wagon has arrived from the east.  I think people could deal with it.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

No, AC.

That said, yes to all of the other ideas.

[Gagula]

heh. you guys are making this really fucking complicated, which will only delay the implementation.

I hope vanth's idea can be implemented in stages. Wagons SOON, commands to light them on fire LATER.

(in the voice of a 5 yr. old)But....but......I wanted to see teh pretty colors, and smell the pretty smoke NOOOOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!

Lol, but I would totally love a wagon that the average joe blow who's used to killing scrab while mining sid could use to load up his sid onto a wagon to help carry more.

[brytta.leofa]

Lol, but I would totally love a wagon that the average joe blow who's used to killing scrab ...

[Vanth]

It's not really up to me to implement this, since I'm not a coder.  I can ask around to see if someone is interested, but no promises.

[AmandaGreathouse]

They would get brainz, and cookies.

(No absinthe, though)

Seriously, I can't name the time I've spent with the wagonmaking skill and been frustrated. Especially after finding out how long it had been since a new one was brought IG.

[Gunnerblaster]

A staffer once told me that it takes not only uber amounts of coin, numbering over 50 large, but it also takes 10 ic years to have a simple wagon built (A dinky, one-roomed one).

To me, that just seems ridiculous. Back in western times, or whatever, they made wagons relatively quickly (Maybe a month or less). Even without the use of metalic ores, like metal, copper and bronze, wagons should still be just as relatively easy to build. Less sturdy, but still less time consuming then ten years of a PC's life span.

I mean, seriously. Who the hell has many characters that live for ten in-game years unless their hiding under a rock?

[Agent_137]

02/17/2009: Code to support small wagon support -- Morgenes

[Yokunama]

02/17/2009: Code to support small wagon support -- Morgenes

Neat.

[AmandaGreathouse]

02/17/2009: Code to support small wagon support -- Morgenes

This alone is enough to make me put off the next role I had planned to try and make a merchant. Fucking awesome. Seriously, just.... fucking awesome.

[brytta.leofa]

This alone is enough to make me put off the next role I had planned to try and make a merchant.

This and the documented crafting recipes.  Outstanding stuff, staffpeople.

[Malken]

02/17/2009: Code to support small wagon support -- Morgenes

This alone is enough to make me put off the next role I had planned to try and make a merchant. Fucking awesome. Seriously, just.... fucking awesome.

Huh, I thought you ONLY played merchants. 

[Lizzie]

02/17/2009: Code to support small wagon support -- Morgenes

I'm thrilled that something is being done with wagonmaking but..what does this -mean- exactly?

Code to support...sounds to me like they're just starting to build the structuring of the skill but it still isn't actually implemented yet.

Which is fine..I'm still thrilled! I'd just probably be even more thrilled, if I knew what I was thrilled about!

[AmandaGreathouse]

02/17/2009: Code to support small wagon support -- Morgenes

This alone is enough to make me put off the next role I had planned to try and make a merchant. Fucking awesome. Seriously, just.... fucking awesome.

Huh, I thought you ONLY played merchants. 

Nope. I also play rangers.

[Vanth]

Morgenes expanded the coding he had done for skimmers, to also work for wagons.

Now I have to build the wagons and work on the crafting side of it.

[Morgenes]

This is the framework code that the builders needed to start working on making the wagons.  It was an adaptation of the silt skimmer code to work on land instead.

Or what Vanth said...*snaps fingers*

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Uh - this means what, for us?

[brytta.leofa]

Uh - this means what, for us?

Carts: coming soon to a container merchant near you.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

The long-haired half-giant stands here, stacking carts atop each other.
The toothless, hunched man grins at passing people, vaunting the quality of his carts.

[Gagula]

The long-haired half-giant stands here, stacking carts atop each other.
The toothless, hunched man grins at passing people, vaunting the quality of his carts.

The bold man walks by the stack of carts, and kicks a peg out of an axle.

a pile of carts comes crashing down on you!

Welcome to Armageddon!(mantis head)

[jcljules]

This is the framework code that the builders needed to start working on making the wagons.  It was an adaptation of the silt skimmer code to work on land instead.

Or what Vanth said...*snaps fingers*

Wait... so does this mean that wagons will soon become standard craftable objects!? Or will they still need IMM assistance to complete?

[Vanth]

They will become craftable.  I cannot say exactly how soon.

Aside from needing to build some, we still need to work out a few things about how they will work, like how animals will be harnessed, how we represent animal fatigue, etc.

[jcljules]

Wow. Thats great.

[brytta.leofa]

They will become craftable.  I cannot say exactly how soon.

Aside from needing to build some, we still need to work out a few things about how they will work, like how animals will be harnessed, how we represent animal fatigue, etc.

Harnessing + fatigue + craftability + WAGONS OUR VERY OWN WAGONS == worth waiting for.

[X-D]

Lets hope that the current coders come up with a better solution then the last time you could hitch animals to wagons...ewwww.

[Morgenes]

Lets hope that the current coders come up with a better solution then the last time you could hitch animals to wagons...ewwww.

If you remember specifically what was wrong (more than just a bad taste in your mouth), please feel free to bring it up here and discuss it, or mail me if you'd rather keep it private.  I plan on dusting off that code and trying to fix it rather than start from scratch.

[Malken]

Aw, that's so unfair, my last character was DYING for a wagon of his own.. He was told that he MIGHT get some sort of cheap rickshaw-looking 'wagon' for like 500000000 'sids if he waited 20 IC years.

C'mon, Morgenes, you can't do that to me, allow me to unstore once more for the 6th times please!

[X-D]

Thats alot of dust morg, I barely remember it, I believe one of the biggest problems at the time was a huge amount of game lag. Maybe somebody with better records then me would remember, LoD maybe has enough time. Also, maybe one of the people with uber search skills can find when it was taken out, I believe there was an explanation at the time. I do believe it was removed more for bugs and other game problems then anything.

But if I remember specifics I'll email.

Otherwise, Good luck.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Yeh, it was something about bugs. I don't remember anything about game lag.

[Fathi]

Also, maybe one of the people with uber search skills can find when it was taken out, I believe there was an explanation at the time.

Here's what I got. Azroen posted this on 12 Aug, 2000:

Prefacing this by stating that this code has been long in the coming, and been helped along by many people. Nessalin has contributed the majority of the base code, and Tenebrius and Morgenes have helped fixing bugs, and getting things to work right. So kudos to them for laying the foundation so I could take it up and finish it for player use. This should be an excellent system.


ARMAWAGON

Introduction
Wagons currently are large, mobile, indestructable shelters that allow a person or clan to do almost whatever they wish. Once inside a wagon, there is no stopping it, which detracts from the game. Part of the thrill of Armageddon is the danger, and with wagons, much of this element is removed. So we've designed a system, years in the making, to balance wagons with the rest of the world, as well as to still make them fun, and sought after. The latter half of that was the hard part, though I believe we have succeeded.

How it works
Many new features and "rules" are going to be applied to wagons. THe first and foremost, which will be the most apparant is that beasts are required to pull the wagons. No beasts and the wagon won't move. The rest of the code builds from this foundation.

New features:

    * Mounts are required: The harness command can be used to place mounts into the wagon team, and the unharness command is used to remove them. The maximum number of mounts that can be harnessed to a wagon is different on each wagon. Smaller wagons will only have 1-3 mounts able to pull it, while larger ones may need 8-10 mounts in order to pull it efficiently.
    * New pilot commands: Read help pilot for more information. But to sum up, a pilot is able to issue commands to the wagon team through the pilot command.
    * Lead-reins: These are the imaginary reins that are hooked to the wagon-team, and which are used to command them. With the pilot command, the reins can be lowered to the ground(so that mounts may be harnessed or unharnessed) or raised(so that the pilot can control his team). If the reins are lowered then the lead mount can be hitched. If the lead mount is hitched, then the pilot will not be able to pull the reins back inside the wagon. Vice versa, if the lead-reins are within the wagon, the lead mount is unhitchable.
    * Wagon-trains: It is now possible to follow wagons, and when they move, you will follow. So people can walk along outside a wagon guarding it, or what have you.
    * Damageable: Wagons will take damage now, and can be disabled. You will not be able to attack a wagon, nor cast spells at a wagon, in an attempt to damage it. Wagons will only take damage through movement. So those people who like to take wagons exploring through a mountainous, rocky area, will soon find themselves walking. Another word of note, is that in addition to taking minor damage to the wagon due to driving through one of the various barrier spells, your mounts are going to be fairly pissed and wounded as well.
    * Repairable: A secondary skill is on its way, "Wagon-repair." It will work like the other secondary skills, and is used to maintain/repair your wagon.
    * Towable: Wagons will be hitchable to other wagons, so they can be towed around. The primary use for this is for when a wagon becomes disabled, you can call the local Zalanthas AAA office, who can send out a tow wagon. In the future other objects will be hitchable to wagons(one word: siege).

Explanatory helpfiles
Read pilot, wagon, and harness helpfiles. They have been updated, and contain much necessary information.
What this all means

Wagon code is changing, but it isn't completely finished yet. It has been tested for a while, some features for a long while. But some parts are still being done, and other parts, while technically finished, I'd like some player use and feedback so I can tweak it. Currently, if your wagon is not set up to allow mounts to be harnessed to it, you can not hook mounts up to it. So those who want to try this, mail your clan immortal, mail the mud account, or wish in the game asking for this to be set.

TWO WEEK TEST PEROID
We plan on giving this code change a 2-week grace period before it becomes mandatory. This will give wagon owners time to purchase enough mounts to pull your wagons. This will also give a chance for those who wish to, to voluntarily switch over to this new system, and to test it. Bugs should be mailed to me directly, azroen@ginka.armageddon.org as should "tweaking" concerns. On Saturday, August 26th, we plan on making the move to requiring mounts to pull wagons. Unless a major bug comes up, this time frame should be meetable.

Later on, on 06 September, 2000, Azroen posted this:

In the pursuit of making the wagon code necessitating mounts to pull wagons, we have come to one of the final stages of coding. However, something inconvenient needs to be done in order for everything to work correctly.

We are needing to do a wagon file conversion, hopefully this weekend(although if there are no reboots/crashes between now and then, it will probably be done the following weekend). In doing this conversion it will be infinitely easier if the wagon file does not have mount entries.

Therefore, as of the next reboot/crash, I have placed some code that will allow all wagons to operate without mounts. (so if your wagon was previously switched over to use mounts, you won't be stranded). I have also "broken" the harness command, so that you will not be able to put mounts onto your wagon.

When the above code goes live, I'd appreciate it if people who have been using the mounts pulling wagons code to unharness their mounts from their wagons, and operate this way until after the conversion. If you need to rent your mounts, or if you lose them and need to purchase new ones after the conversion, you may mail me for consideration.

I searched around in the 2000 archives but that was the best I could come up with.

[HunterKiller]

I wouldn't be particularly impressed if you could destroy my carriage with a bone spear.

Those with the trap skill might find their talents suddenly more useful? :-) And I think even an agile creature like a halfling would have an extremely low defense while piloting. New potential armor possibilities open up, making protective clothing specifically for a sitting position (I guess that could have other uses). Cart "upgrades" like an enclosed human-sized cabinet would then be a possibility to further protect the driver while piloting.

There's something in this for everyone. :-)

- HK

[Jingo]

I still want my WAY-GUN. For shooting people over The Way.

...Damnit.

[mansa]

I remember fiddling around with the new pilot code.  In fact, some of it still exists if you type 'Pilot' at a pilot's area.
I never came across with any bugs, but then again, the character I was playing at the time wasn't supposed to be driving it.

I seem to recall it had to do with the wagons breaking down, and not having any code to 'fix' them, without immortal intervention.

[Gagula]

I still want my WAY-GUN. For shooting people over The Way.

...Damnit.

Code Select Expand


A foreign presence contacts your mind.

>Think Oh, maybe it's Merchant Bob from house Salarr with my handy new armor set.

You think: "Oh, maybe it's Merchant Bob from house Salarr with my handy new armor set."

You receive a message from the scrawny, foreign man:  "YOU! You are the one who I caught with my wife in MY OWN BED!!

>Think Oh, Krath!

You think: "Oh, Krath!"

The scrawny, foreign man shoots you psionically with his WAY-GUN!

Welcome to Armageddon! (mantis head)


[Mudder]

I can't wait to have this in game. Man, so many new additions to the game lately I can't keep up, glad I came back to arm.

[Malken]

How many agafari branches do you require to craft a wagon? My poor agility only allows me to carry five of them at a time

[Gunnerblaster]

How many agafari branches do you require to craft a wagon? My poor agility only allows me to carry five of them at a time

5 branches? Bet you can make really good cart from that... 

[Malken]

How many agafari branches do you require to craft a wagon? My poor agility only allows me to carry five of them at a time

5 branches? Bet you can make really good cart from that... 

That's pretty much the wagon a Staff was willing to let us build after MANY years spent gathering resources, and it would have costed us over 50000 'sids for it, seriously, that's exactly how we pictured our wagon in the end, before just giving up on the idea and storing 

[Bushranger]

How many agafari branches do you require to craft a wagon? My poor agility only allows me to carry five of them at a time

5 branches? Bet you can make really good cart from that... 

I would kill for that wagon in game.. but only so long as it was exactly that wagon! so cool painting on it.

[Gunnerblaster]

Code Select Expand

>Look wagon

You look down at your tiny, white-painted wagon.

This is a tiny wagon made of finely polished baobab. Most noticeable is the
variety of images painted along the side panels, ranging from bright blue baby
gizhats to smiling, playful purple gortoks. This wagon is set upon four wheels
of baobab that seem ill-equipped for much travel or use. The overall size of
this wagon is roughly that of a small human child or tall dwarf.

>enter wagon

You crush a tiny, white-painted wagon!

[Jenred]

If it is a covered wagon, it should provide some of the stamina benefits of being indoors or in a wagon.

[Twilight]

Its been a long time, and I wasn't on a character with access to wagons, but I dimly recall issues with how hitch would work causing problems for this, although I cannot recall the exact problem with hitch.

[FantasyWriter]

If it is a covered wagon, it should provide some of the stamina benefits of being indoors or in a wagon.

I disagree. There is a big difference between resting under a tarp or a shade tree and resting in a cool stone building.

[Gagula]

If it is a covered wagon, it should provide some of the stamina benefits of being indoors or in a wagon.

I disagree. There is a big difference between resting under a tarp or a shade tree and resting in a cool stone building.

Heh, the only problem is finding said cool building on a desert planet.  lol.  But I do agree, it is a major difference being indoors and being under a tarp.

[RogueGunslinger]

What's the difference between being under a wagon canopy and being inside of a tent?

[AmandaGreathouse]

What's the difference between being under a wagon canopy and being inside of a tent?

The wagon moves, so you get that bit 'o breeze that makes it more refreshing on a clear day and more dusty in a sandstorm.

[Gagula]

Unless you figure out how to pitch a tent on top of a mekillot.......I'm not driving those stakes down, are you?

[Jenred]

Ok, then I'll change my statement to - being in one of these "pseudo-wagons" should have the same bonuses to resting inside a real wagon, or tent, or whatever else. Or vice versa, the old wagons should have the same detriments as resting in one of these new contraptions.

[Ghost]

I did not read the thread (so I don't know if this is suggested already, suck it up if someone did), , but I am thinking, a coded wagon moving between Allanak and Luir's, and Luir's and Tuluk, completely driven by NPCs could add some cool.

PC's can pay a fee to get inside and travel from the city to the outpost or the other way around.  It could have few guards to guard some materials, which disappear (goes to the virtual world) once the wagon reaches to the destination.

Anyone who attempts to raid are reported to the Templarate boards.  Anyone who can successfully raid the wagons could claim the materials shipped.

The merchant houses would have the control over the wagon, so any raid would be damaging their virtual goods.