Mundane PC roles

[RogueGunslinger]

Mundane, everyday characters are great. But who wants to be the average or below character for a long time? Usually these roles are just fillers for the big fish roles.

Ever try to be a big fish without anyone willing to play filler roles for you?   

Just sayin'.

This is a very good point.

[Clearsighted]

I much prefer mundane PCs, to yet another psionicist or gicker.

[Archbaron]

Generally, I OOCly see Amoses as newbies or uninspired players hopping between roles, but that's only because I personally like playing basket cases. I assume the vNPCs are all the Amoses I ever need.

[Moofassa]

I have access to nearly every guild, and I think I've played maybe one or two mages that I've enjoyed. There's just a thrill about being ordinarily extraordinary. The RP seems more intense to me, there's more option, there's more improv. and overall more enjoyment. The mage classes are far too heavily "spam" based for me to enjoy playing a character, rather than a conscious machine. Playing a mundane, I can live my life, and my skills get better as a I do. While thats also possible for mages and other bender-y guilds, I find when I play a mage (personal) I can't get my mind off making sure my skills are going to fire when the time is right to shoot. Just me.


This is my first post in ages, in which I've written more than three sentences in like three years.

[SMuz]

Ha, my first two Amos newbie characters are working out great. There's also another one in my clan who's a typical farmer, as green as I was. The problem is staying a typical character. Eventually, you stick out - guess that's what separates the PCs and NPCs from vNPCs. A typical street sweeper could grow to be a great warrior just because he put a little effort in fixing his life.

Or he could grow up to be a drunk who passes out all the time and spends all his 'sid on whores. Up to him.

[jcljules]

I think that the biggest reason they get harassed as to their motives and career is that leader players are usually looking for people to fill roles. If the "amos" types are well played, leaders are going to try to find a job for them... when they refuse to take that job, it raises questions.
Especially because of the IC  logic. Who would want to greb, sweep streets, beg, or break rocks, when they can become an  aide, informant, soldier, or merchant and make their salary many times over. 

...unless they have something to hide.

If I was playing an amos type character and I was approached with a job offer, I would just fuck up and do terribly. If I was hired by a merchant house, great! I would give away items and talk about their terrible quality. If I was in the militia in 'nak, I would pick up a spice habit.

Just my opinion, but I think if someone is trying to place Average Amos, they shouldn't play him capably enough to join a major organization. They should it make it clear to clan employers that they suck, and its not IC to hire them.

[staggerlee]

I think that the biggest reason they get harassed as to their motives and career is that leader players are usually looking for people to fill roles. If the "amos" types are well played, leaders are going to try to find a job for them... when they refuse to take that job, it raises questions.
Especially because of the IC  logic. Who would want to greb, sweep streets, beg, or break rocks, when they can become an  aide, informant, soldier, or merchant and make their salary many times over. 

...unless they have something to hide.

If I was playing an amos type character and I was approached with a job offer, I would just fuck up and do terribly. If I was hired by a merchant house, great! I would give away items and talk about their terrible quality. If I was in the militia in 'nak, I would pick up a spice habit.

Just my opinion, but I think if someone is trying to place Average Amos, they shouldn't play him capably enough to join a major organization. They should it make it clear to clan employers that they suck, and its not IC to hire them.

I'm not disputing that at all. It would be grotesquely negligent for Lord Templar Tor to hire a street sweeper as his personal aide.

... but said streetsweeper should certainly be affected by the offer.  Being terrified of the consequences of your inevitable failure is a fair reaction, taking the job and fucking it up is a fair reaction, turning up your nose, scoffing and going back to street sweeping is not.

  I don't really think we're in disagreement though.

[jcljules]

Yeah, I totally agree with your points--I was just adding a little something. Didn't mean to sound snarky or confrontational.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I think its good that people play what they want, but my husband said something the other day in the car that is really kinda true to me, with regards to Arm.

PCs are special, it's not player character, but particular character, whether for good or ill, something about them makes them really stand out.

NPCs aren't nonplayer characters, they are No Particular Character. They kinda stand out, but not all that much. They arent just 'streetsweeper #14'.

VNPC Virtually No Particular Character. They are so average, they almost always blend in.

That was paraphrasing, because I don't remember the exact words, but that really makes sense, in a way. I mean, if you want to play your average Amos, I'm going to wonder what it was that caught my attention about you, yeah, but go for it. Last thing I'd want is to limit or ruin someone elses experience.

[Boggis]

PCs are special, it's not player character, but particular character, whether for good or ill, something about them makes them really stand out.

This just isn't true in my opinion. Nothing makes them standout - that's just the player thinking that OOCly and applying it to the gameworld even though it doesn't make much sense. PCs occupy the same space in the world as NPCs, do the same jobs, etc. PCs aren't really the movers and shakers of the world, generally occupying a low level management role in organisations similar to NPCs. Granted most PCs tend to have far shorter lives than NPCs / VNPCs probably do but I'm not sure that marks them as "special". Slightly retarded maybe.

[Armaddict]

With Boggis, I don't really find myself...particularly attracted to that idea.  If only because it fosters the idea that because you are a PC, you are less subjected to being bound by documentation.  Because you're 'special'.  It sounds silly, I know, and it is generally small, mundane things that make that 'specialness', but it becomes more and more acceptable and follows a curve away from the norm, shifting it completely.

The problem with that, is that the vnpcs, the npcs, make very little note of themselves.  Their presence is not actively portrayed, while that of the PC is.  It is very very easy to forget that that group over there all consists of 'specialness' that is out of the norm...simply because a group of five all saying the same thing makes it seem more normal and will actually have a larger presence then most other 'special' people.

So specialness is okay, but I always like those who play the ignorant, culturally-fed guy, simply because it keeps that 'normal' presence....present.

[staggerlee]

With Boggis, I don't really find myself...particularly attracted to that idea.  If only because it fosters the idea that because you are a PC, you are less subjected to being bound by documentation.  Because you're 'special'.  It sounds silly, I know, and it is generally small, mundane things that make that 'specialness', but it becomes more and more acceptable and follows a curve away from the norm, shifting it completely.

The problem with that, is that the vnpcs, the npcs, make very little note of themselves.  Their presence is not actively portrayed, while that of the PC is.  It is very very easy to forget that that group over there all consists of 'specialness' that is out of the norm...simply because a group of five all saying the same thing makes it seem more normal and will actually have a larger presence then most other 'special' people.

So specialness is okay, but I always like those who play the ignorant, culturally-fed guy, simply because it keeps that 'normal' presence....present.

In fact, pcs are often some of the smallest players in the game. The most powerful tribal elders, templars, nobles, and so forth are never player run.  You're just one little person in a big, cold, cruel world that doesn't particularly care about you, and you can end up dead just as fast as the vnpcs in the body pile.

Besides, its organizations and groups that get things done. Individuals are fodder for the machine.
PCs are subjectively special in that you may care more about them, but as far as the world goes there's not necessarily anything special at all about them.

In short, I agree with Boggis and Armaddict, and I think that it's  actually a crucial distinction.


Slight tangent:  Often the way people portray mundane, or "unexceptional" people bothers me. It seems that a lot of people think mundane is synonymous with unmotivated or suicidal.  Your street sweeper, your beggar and prostitute should still have fears and dreams - they should crave dignity, power, love and sprinkled donuts like anyone else, and self preservation should be as important to them as it is to your 560 day mul sorceror.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I don't mean the richest, I don't mean the most powerful, I just mean that players are like the people that you just happen to notice in a crowd while walking down a busy street IRL. They aren't necessarily Johnny Cochran or Angelina Jolie, but, for some reason, they stand out. Could just be the fit of the skirt, or that particular fear of gurth, or the wierd ass birthmark you have.

[RogueGunslinger]

I get what amanda is saying. It's a good way to deal with suspension of belief to assume that pc's stand out more. But I think of it as pc's are more attracted to each other.

Just a way of dealing with the fact that we pick on pc's more than npc's, or vNPC's.

[Gagula]

Personally, I view all of Armageddon as a giant, interactive, pop-up story book (ok, so I had some wierd fairy tales when I was growing up).  Maybe not EVERY character that you see has a particular purpose in the overall plot, but they are important none the less....even if it's just that the Uber-templar spat on The sun brassen mul street-sweeper, he's still important to the overall picture of the world......even if it is just because your 60 day warrior decided it was time to feed the scrabs.

[DustMight]

I love the everyday Amos - and I love to play them.  Chances are if you see a character with a (hopefully) well written description who is just a plain joe or jane, that's me.  Most of the time.

Armageddon is a world of grit - can't have a gritty world without a lot of gritty, normal taxi-driving suckers out there.

[My 2 sids]

I guess I was just curious.  I've heard some players get very frustrated when they can't just play a regular-joe type character.    I'd like to think these things are totally IC -- but sometimes a question of "why can't this _player_  just leave me and my Amos alone?"