City-elf problems and possible solutions

[Nile]

I asked a similar question before but my question wasn't really answered...

Is it bad RP for city elves to travel to other cities? What about a c-elf who lost his tribe who grebs for salt or uses the desert in some way for his livelihood (no idea how to spell that haha)? Or would I have to do this in a way that allows him to think he is ripping someone off?

[Agent_137]

got me, Nile. I've never played one, but this thread has got me fired up about doing so. Just need someone to kill my current char.

and here's an old quote on elves:

Elves live by the ASS-code.
They're either
Laughin it off
Bustin it
Kickin it
Kissin it
Trying to get a piece of it
or
Being one

If you live by the "ass" code, you'll get the elven persona automatically

[SMuz]

I'd support the 1-karma elf thing.. elves are extremely difficult to play (isn't that why d-elves are 1-karma?) Heck, I tried reading through the files and the elven mentality baffled me. It's impossible to play without breaking some rules - no mount riding, stealing at any chance (except with tribe members), and trusting nobody. Also there's the various little RP dilemmas. Is a clan a sort of tribe, or is it a bunch of gullible fools waiting to be tricked? Should a c-elf refuse to take orders to ride a mount, or would he just suck it up and do what the boss says with a lot of bruised pride?

Definitely a 1-karma thing. I could probably pull off a good c-elf if I wanted, but it's like 5th priority under all my other character ideas. They have one awesome coded advantage, but ironically, I haven't seen a single elf take advantage of it

[Iron tregil]

Seriously, people need to drop the c-elf karma idea. Karma is only instituted to keep a balance in the game and reward players who have good RP ability or the ability to impact the game; so making c-elf a karma race would accomplish neither of those things.

Also I'm sure if the imms notice players playing c-elves way out of line they'll just take them off of said players account, in which case they'll have the prove that they're a mature enough role-player to earn them back.

[SMuz]

OK.. all elves = 1-karma AND they get slightly more stamina than an erdlu, allowing them to go a bit farther and still be able to forage.

[Nyr]

I don't think city-elves are going to become a karma race.

[spawnloser]

I love how this discussion comes up as we approach Arm 2.0, where it will likely make no difference...

...but you know, we've had this discussion before and I don't care what everyone else's arguments are this time around.

My opinions, if elves could be changed before the end of Arm 1.0 or if they will be in Arm 2.0?  There shouldn't be any difference between city and desert elves.  There should just be 'elf' and they should be a hybrid of what city and desert elves are now.  No elves should be anything but nomadic tribes.  Individual tribes may differ, but there shouldn't be this grand over-reaching 'desert elves don't like cities!' mentality that I see in most of them.  They should be happy to go into cities and dupe the short-legs.  In short, all elven tribes should be more like the Sun runners.

[RogueGunslinger]

I love how this discussion comes up as we sloooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwly approach Arm 2.0, where it will likely make no difference...

[FightClub]

Two elven races doesn't make sense to me, give them all delves, or celves.  So yeah, that made me just agree with spawn loser, I am sorely offended.

[FantasyWriter]

Two elven races doesn't make sense to me, give them all delves, or celves.

I have always been of this opinion.  After all D-elves are just d-elves that came in the walls, and decided to stay.
I would say that Jul Tavan (d-humans) get the same skills/stats as c-humans, but then again. :shrug:

[Twilight]

If you want to buff up city elves:

So they can run around Allanak endlessly, but a road outside the city is just too much for them.  Huh?  I would suggest codedly changing them to be able to run (and only run, not walk) in outside roads for 1 mv.  Only roads, which are essentially the same as a trash filled rinth alley or Allanak street they can run endlessly.  Of course, they would still suck (or even suck more) in non-road outside terrain.

If they can't run in Tuluk, should be fixed.  I remember elves (at least in Allanak and a bit in old Tuluk) running everywhere.  You should expect an elf to be running, IMHO.

Probably a stretch, but create a C-elf only speed that is somewhere between their run and their walk, but is in fact a seperate sneak/hide speed (with negative modifiers for success) so that they can sneak, walk, fastsneak or run.  As above, if you expect to see elves running, they should be able to blend in doing so.

I think that would fix things I see wrong with c-elves, at least, other than lack of open tribes.

[Synthesis]

I think some of the things city-elves get are under-utilized.

I mean, you can already sneak so fast that -nobody- can possibly shadow you, except another elf. If you run, nobody can shadow you (without magick). That's a powerful ability if you use it correctly.

And I mean...if you've never played a city-elf pickpocket, I suggest you do it and prioritize agility first.

But like I said previously, the code things aren't really the problem:  it's the general lack of support for city-elf tribes.  The one time I played in a coded tribe, it was fucking amazing, and it really brought out the best in me, I think (only time I've ever gotten kudos for anything).

[Good Gortok]

I would suggest codedly changing them to be able to run (and only run, not walk) in outside roads for 1 mv.

This doesn't make much sense to me. As far as I remember, c-elves also lose more stamina from walking than running in the wilderness (could be mistaken), and I don't see how that's realistic. Is it really possible for a bipedal creature to develop a physique that makes it less strenuous to run than to walk? And what's the reason for wanting them to be able to only run and not walk effectively on roads anyway?

[Twilight]

Because I have a personal agenda of seeing city elves start running again, instead of walking?

[Good Gortok]

Well, if they could do both with equal efficiency, they would run when it's IC to run and walk when it's IC to walk. I can't find a plausible reason why it would be less tiring to run than to walk.

[Niamh]

The problem I have is when I see city elves acting like humans, and/or people treating them like humans.  If this is happening because the elf is trying to pull a scam of some kind, or the human is trying to "elf" the elf, that's all fine and good.  It's just really disappointing to see a city elf blindly giving its trust over to someone not of his tribe, or a human blindly giving trust to a city elf.  Elves are all thieving scum, and even when they're being nice to you, it's because they're up to something.  I would love to see more of that prejudice running rampant, and more elves swindling the hell out of those stupid roundears.

[Jingo]

Imms, has there been any thought given to this?

I would honestly like to see city-elves fleshed out more. Even more than I would like to see desert-elves with more goodies, wagons or poop-code. (not that I mind any)

[Shalooonsh]

Thought has been given to city elves lately.

[5 day lifespan]

I know there are many who would roll c-elves if there was a clan for them that we could start with.  I only avoided the race because when I was a total newb I knew the Byn was my best chance for survival in the south.  Now, my notion is that c-elves DONT go outside.  It isn't their way.  They have become so adept at the city eco-system, they are ill equipped for outside anymore.  Like cockroaches, only not as tough to kill.  (And yes, I know there are roaches in the wild, they are just very attached to human settlements.)

[Blackjack]

There are a lot of c-elf clans/tribes in the Rinth.

The most famous - but usually almost closed for play is - Haruch Kemad.

Some are more widely known like - The Sandas and Dariki tribes.

Others exist too - but are not that well known - like - Valuren and Ka'nosh clans.

If you're really keen and are able to find a staff member with time on hand, you probably could get some documentation on these clans/tribes.


Of course, you can always make up your own virtual tribes.


As far as c-elf stats sucking - I'd have to agree with that statement....

[Armaddict]

I blatantly disagree with this whole thread.  My c-elves were awesome.

[Shalooonsh]

C-elf stats only suck if stats are important to you.  If stats are so important to you as to make an entire race 'suck' because they have stats that you don't agree with, perhaps you should take a look at your playstyle and consider what is truly important.  C-elf stats are solid and do well in portraying the race as they should be portrayed in the world.

Rinthi city elf tribes at this time are closed, and will likely remain so for good reason.  We do highly endorse the use of vtribes to help flesh out the world, however.  Vtribes, both c-and-d-elf have been long used to improve the atmosphere of the game.

If you want a character who is buff and stat heavy, play a half giant.  If you want a pc who exists purely on the force of wiles and cunning, who does not have a superior stat bracket, and who depends highly on social ties for survival in times of being hunted (as all c-elves inevitably are), then by all means enjoy your sharp eared c-elf.

It is a truth on Armageddon that not every player is cut out to play every race.  Some people just can't handle dwarves (I am one of these).  Other's can't handle elven lifestyle, either city or wild.  Still others hate the stupidity they are forced to roleplay with half-giants, so they avoid them. 

Unfortunately the openly vocal anti-city-elven sentiment on the GDB has probably driven a lot of players away from them who would normally have tried them and possibly enjoyed the experience.  Such things happen easily, as a biased post can change the course of a decision quite quickly for the uninformed. 

[Eloran]

/\/\/\

The only thing I think c.elves need is the ability to run in cities without hits to their mvs pool. If this were the case, they'd be almost perfectly balanced (and would reflect the current documentation).

[Nile]

/\/\/\

The only thing I think c.elves need is the ability to run in cities without hits to their mvs pool. If this were the case, they'd be almost perfectly balanced (and would reflect the current documentation).

This is already in place. At least in quite a few areas that I've experienced.

[Synthesis]

If city-elves aren't broken, then why are they so under-represented in the PC population?

The amount of denial in this thread is mind-boggling.