Armageddon with a graphical engine instead of MUD - Interested?

Started by gobbledygookie, January 26, 2009, 05:08:34 PM

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January 26, 2009, 05:08:34 PM
Well - here's a suggestion to entertain :) ,

I'm a gameworld builder in Neverwinter Nights and I'm designing a low-magic, low-levels, social-community based gameworld where players can build their own citadel essentially by collecting resources. Heavily plot-driven, and all that. All of course in an enforced role-play realm.

So far, we've been unable to draw players to our design, so I figured - hey, Armaggedum has a pretty nice community, having played here - why don't we join forces and we'll make Armaggedum into a graphical engine using Neverwinter Nights 1?

This may sound like a bit of a crazy idea, revolutionary even ;) I just happen to think that the essential idea behind Armaggedum is something that I love, I personally can't go without permadeath and a social-based heavy role-play design, and I'd like to see it in a graphical engine that does it justice (and NWN does justice to anything - it's pretty neat, and it's better than NWN2 - but I won't get to the "why" now).

What do you say, shall we make the epic move? I really mean it, and I will prove it by discussing all the details with you here, even if it takes 100 pages.

If you guys are MUD-sticklers - I understand, but if you ever want to see how your concept will look and play-out like grahpically, I say this is a very unique opportunity. It's up to you, the team, the players.

If you're interested, we can start debating the details more thoroughly and see how far can we truly go.

My current project link, purely for reference, is here - http://www.nwvisuals.com/tum/
January 26, 2009, 05:27:56 PM #1
I hope you are joking.

I am having a hard time imagining coloured text in Arm.
Quote from: AJM
Only noobs quote themselves.
January 26, 2009, 05:39:00 PM #2
It could probably be done. Though, nobody is going to be in favor of the switch.
Now you're looking for the secret. But you won't find it because of course, you're not really looking. You don't really want to work it out. You want to be fooled.
January 26, 2009, 05:43:20 PM #3
Negatron.
Quote from: Fathi on March 08, 2018, 06:40:45 PMAnd then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.
January 26, 2009, 06:02:00 PM #4
Quote
i...uh... *blushes slightly* ...pleasue meeting you....

Screw going there, let's bring those guys over here.
A dark-shelled scrab pinches at you, but you dodge out of the way.
A dark-shelled scrab brandishes its bone-handled, obsidian scimitar.
A dark-shelled scrab holds its bloodied wicked-edged, bone scimitar.
January 26, 2009, 06:12:14 PM #5
Graphical engines are the wheels of death to the happy opossum that is a text-based MUD.

Thus, we bare our collective teeth and snarl.

-LoD

January 26, 2009, 06:19:08 PM #6 Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 06:35:39 PM by Marauder Moe
Quote from: Wolfsong on January 26, 2009, 06:02:00 PMScrew going there, let's bring those guys over here.
Agreed!  Someone go over to their forum and invite them to come try out Armageddon.   :)

EDIT: don't do this, BTW.  It is a lapse in judgment on my part for suggesting so, even in jest.  It looks like they've actually got a good concept going, and just as we enjoy it when other MUDs further the cause of MUD-dom, we should wish these folks well in furthering the cause of RPI-dom.

EDIT2: but that doesn't mean I'm not a little miffed that they've come here trying to recruit from our playerbase.
January 26, 2009, 06:24:18 PM #7
Personally, I think it'd be kinda cool....the major downside I see (besides not improving my reading skills, lol) is that everybody and their brother would come, and it'd just be another World of WarCrack.....er WarCraft, yeah, that's it.  But in all seriousness, I'd have to vote no.
"The fear of death is the most unjustified of all fears, for there's no risk of accident for someone who's dead."
-Albert Einstein
January 26, 2009, 06:25:57 PM #8
Lets humor the discussion instead of blowing it off, shall we? That doesn't prove anything, and it could be interesting.

Text allows for broader diversity. You can do far more with language than you can with graphics, it allows for artistic depiction and creativity, writing skill,
and interpretation and imagination on the part of the reader.  

I would argue that an RPI mud is more than a text game... but that's a matter of opinion, so we'll drop the artsy fartsy angle and move on to the real problem:

Even in a basic H&S with terrible writing, no rp, and no community, the text medium allows for a broader range of game content. The time it takes to write a unique description for an item is negligible compared to the time it would take to get the same effect in a GUI.  The only way I can see to add unique items with ease in a graphical environment is to use a placeholder graphic and add a text dialogue to describe the item. I for one don't feel that has the same effect or is at all satisfactory.

In your opinion, what are the advantages to a graphical environment?
In your opinion, what are the disadvantages to a graphical environment?
How do those weigh against what's offered by text?
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.

"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."

"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.

"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
January 26, 2009, 06:38:04 PM #9
Sorry...but no...let's just blow it off.  Aramgeddon needs to be what it is or is going be(arm.2)...without graphics.
I'd rather be lucky than good.
January 26, 2009, 06:41:12 PM #10
Quote from: Cowboy on January 26, 2009, 06:38:04 PM
Sorry...but no...let's just blow it off.  Aramgeddon needs to be what it is or is going be(arm.2)...without graphics.

That's sort of silly, dull and rude. I don't have any anxiety that the staff are going to decide to put Arm into a graphical engine for Arm2.
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.

"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."

"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.

"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
January 26, 2009, 06:44:18 PM #11
They should try making a dark sun NWN module.
January 26, 2009, 06:58:05 PM #12
Lets do it, then the more we log on and chat, the more sid we get. Then with the sid we can decorate our avatars.  then we can make our avatars talk to each other tehehe
Quote from: AJM
Only noobs quote themselves.
January 26, 2009, 07:07:15 PM #13
Heh, I wouldn't want Arm with visuals. Honestly, do you really want to see "the pockmarked, scarred dwarf" and hundreds like him in full 3D? Do you want to spend a few hours each day pre-animating your emotes before you use them? Actually, animated emotes would be quite awesome if done right, but yeah, too much work for too little reward.

But a Dark Sun NWN module would be awesome. A Dark Sun NWN module that's even a badly crippled copy of Arm would be fun too. Social-based and permadeath could go beyond MUDs, and it would be great with a simple D&D character generation thing, instead of the 12-hour approval system we have. Also, a graphical Armageddon would be easier for newbies to pick up, especially those who don't have A+ English writing skills.

But if you plan on recreating Arm into 3D, I think NWN isn't the right tool. NWN has a very... artificial feel. If MUDs were made of obsidian, then NWN is made of cheap polymers. Unless you're a much, much better modder than the Bioware people themselves, it won't be anywhere near capturing the feel of Armageddon. If you want to build it into a customized MMORPG, then I'd be happy to contribute - but unfortunately, I've got a few other projects to finish first.
Quote from: Rahnevyn on March 09, 2009, 03:39:45 PM
Clans can give stat bonuses and penalties, too. The Byn drop in wisdom is particularly notorious.
January 26, 2009, 07:51:22 PM #14
You lost me at Armaggeddum.  I don't know if that was intentional or not, but I have a bad taste in my mouth for this idea.
I seduced the daughters of men
And made the death of them.
I demanded human sacrifices
From the rest of them.
I became the spirit that haunted
And protected them.
And I lived in the tower of flame
But death collected them.
-War is my Destiny, Ill Bill
January 26, 2009, 07:56:55 PM #15
Quote from: Shalooonsh on January 26, 2009, 07:51:22 PM
You lost me at Armaggeddum.  I don't know if that was intentional or not, but I have a bad taste in my mouth for this idea.

Armageddon + Yum

How could it go wrong?
Now you're looking for the secret. But you won't find it because of course, you're not really looking. You don't really want to work it out. You want to be fooled.
January 26, 2009, 07:59:02 PM #16
Shalooonsh is the holy patron of discreet spelling mistakes. Grovel!
"Never was anything great achieved without danger."
     -Niccolo Machiavelli
January 26, 2009, 08:06:58 PM #17
Quote from: LoD on January 26, 2009, 06:12:14 PM
Graphical engines are the wheels of death to the happy opossum that is a text-based MUD.

Thus, we bare our collective teeth and snarl.

-LoD


January 26, 2009, 08:18:44 PM #18
Quote from: Janna on January 26, 2009, 08:06:58 PM
Quote from: LoD on January 26, 2009, 06:12:14 PM
Graphical engines are the wheels of death to the happy opossum that is a text-based MUD.

Thus, we bare our collective teeth and snarl.

-LoD


Quote from: Marauder Moe
Oh my god he's still rocking the sandwich.
January 26, 2009, 08:25:12 PM #19
I'm really against the crippling limitation that this would bring. Shit, I already get a little pissed with myself if I use the word 'faintly' too often in emotes. I can't imagine having to use the same poses over and over. Not to mention, it would just be very, very unappealing to me due to the fact that I kinda thought NWN sucked beside Morrowind.
Quote from: Wug
No one on staff is just waiting for the opportunity to get revenge on someone who killed one of their characters years ago.

Except me. I remember every death. And I am coming for you bastards.
January 26, 2009, 08:51:50 PM #20
Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on January 26, 2009, 08:25:12 PM
I kinda thought NWN sucked beside Morrowind.
Absolutely true. Morrowind was god's gift to non-linear RPGs.
"Never was anything great achieved without danger."
     -Niccolo Machiavelli
January 26, 2009, 09:05:09 PM #21
Quote from: Shalooonsh on January 26, 2009, 07:51:22 PM
You lost me at Armaggeddum.  I don't know if that was intentional or not, but I have a bad taste in my mouth for this idea.

Yeah. I stopped reading at that point too.
Quote from: J S BachIf it ain't baroque, don't fix it.
January 26, 2009, 09:13:05 PM #22
It's not that we're not flattered by your offer, but what you are suggesting is something that we as embracers of the text and followers of the Ginka could never accept. Armageddon is a beautiful gem of literature and adventure. It uses the most powerful GPU in the world: our minds. By attempting to port it into a 3D medium that is made for DnD is like taking trying to turn a fruit into a steak. You just can't do it, and even if you did, it wouldn't taste as sweet as it first did and it would lose the appeal that drew us to it in the first place. I suggest you take time and really sink into our atmosphere and rethink your proposal. There are many ways you can contribute to this fine community and lifestyle we have built here, you just have to find your calling.
"Never was anything great achieved without danger."
     -Niccolo Machiavelli
January 26, 2009, 10:07:06 PM #23
A quote from the man who showed me Armageddon.

"Games with images are like condoms with seamen already in them".
Quote from: AJM
Only noobs quote themselves.
January 26, 2009, 10:13:42 PM #24
I'm pretty sure this was a hit and run.
There is no general doctrine which is not capable of eating out our morality if unchecked by the deep-seated habit of direct fellow-feeling with individual fellow-men. -George Eliot
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