Veteran drifter - Confessions of a weak will.

[number13]

Although I think, possibly, that adding stuff to the game that puts certain things under direct PC control--like PC-owned shops that can be pre-stocked, expanding literacy, other stuff mentioned for 2.ARM--might help. Then even if you can't meet Amos in the virtual flesh because playtimes don't mesh, you can still interact through items and code.

Agreed.  Going further -- being able to put in buy orders for resources/items, or posting somewhat generic contracts to merc organizations.

[RogueGunslinger]

No it's not a problem.

This is the problem I have with the game. It seems that every other rp'er I run into doesn't challenge me as a player anymore.

So elaborate a little on this - because I think the two are related.   Do you think these non-challenging roleplayers are folks like me who are actively refusing (for OOC reasons) rising up to a significant role?  Or do you think that it is just a general 'kids these days' thing where the standards are lowering? 

My thinking is that it is the former. 

Sorry I missed this.

I believe it's more of a problem that I started out playing with some great Roleplayers, and since I haven't been able to find a niche I like. It raised my expectations, and I guess real quality roleplayers, one that bring out everyone elses ability to roleplay well, are few and far between. Not the fault of the general population, just that I was spoiled with being around a couple of those 'RP enticing players' when I first played.

[Gimfalisette]

I believe it's more of a problem that I started out playing with some great Roleplayers, and since I haven't been able to find a niche I like. It raised my expectations, and I guess real quality roleplayers, one that bring out everyone elses ability to roleplay well, are few and far between. Not the fault of the general population, just that I was spoiled with being around a couple of those 'RP enticing players' when I first played.

I suspect as you go on you'll continue to find other RPers here and there who do challenge you with their RP--as in, maybe they are really great with using VNPCs or portraying the environment or emoting or whatever. I know that time-to-time, this does still happen for me.

However, another thing to do is to become the one who challenges; push yourself and thereby push others. This could mean taking up a leadership role, special apping something, focusing on leading plots in game, etc.

[Krath]

Great Post by the OP.

I Agree 100% with 3 and 4. Why cant IMMs just ask you what the fuck you are doing before giving you a bad not? It is disheartening when you have a player
that is contributing and because they dont play the way or rp the way an IMM should you get a bad not regardless of what your motives are.

I dunno, Well My question to the imms is, Why cant you ask for clarity through email or a wish before you give a bad note?

[Armaddict]

I dunno, Well My question to the imms is, Why cant you ask for clarity through email or a wish before you give a bad note?

I've actually had it happen, albeit not often.  One time, my smartass reply resulted in the instant death of a character, a heart attack emote forced before it happened.  The other time I was given a polite reply thanking me and saying carry on.

I do think that emails would be an awesome way to fix it, though.  However...keep in mind, please, that this could result in a lot of meaningless work for staff.  -Everyone- who gets a bad note would end up defending against it.  I bet it would become a fairly constant thing.

Bad account notes, while bad, are not really -that- bad in my experience.  I have a lot of them.  A -lot-.  I've been playing for awhile, and a lot of those times I was not exactly the shining beacon of amazing role-play or politics.  This results in me being watched carefully if something I'm doing looks suspicious, which I don't particularly mind, and -can- lead to problems with a special application.  That latter case, however, has not been prevalent for me.  I have yet to be turned down for a role based off of it, and as mentioned, I have a lot.

So, as far as account notes go...I wouldn't put that much stock behind it, personally.  It's great to be noticed, and it sucks when something is misinterpreted, but I really don't think it's something to be taken as the -main- subject of 'grading' by staff.  That's all it is.  Notes.  Like the notes in class, not the tests.

[zanthalandreams]

That really wasn't my point with the notes.  It was that after, I think, two years?  RL years now, not game years, playing the same character and being involved in all sorts of things and accomplishing all sorts of accomplishments - that the only legacy was a negative note.  'Gee,' thought I, 'Perhaps all that effort was not appreciated.  Maybe I should've been working on that cure for cancer instead.'  I'm not complaining.  I'm not even all that tore up about it.  The original post is just exploring what tended to cause me to drift away from the game for long stretches of time. 

Here in the real world, I interview people.  For hiring, for promotions, for transfers, etc.  If all I have on an individual is a review with a single negative comment after a multi-year employment - I don't automatically think this person is a bad employee.  I do think they have failed to be anything other than average, and likely annoyed their boss while doing so.   Whether their boss is World's Best Boss or not, I am not as eager to go with that applicant as I would be someone with a more positive track record of reviews. 

It isn't a stretch to think that applies to how other promotions (karma) or hiring (special apps) are handled here.

[Doppelganger]

I am not sure if it was zalanthandreams' case, but I find it odd that often notes and even karma affecting decisions come from people who had nothing to do with my character's clan. That kind of surprise is not always an unpleasant one and I keep in mind possibilty of playing alongside with avatar, who knows about my character more than my clan staff does. But sometimes I do wonder why virgins teach me how to fuck, particular clan roleplay-wise.

I would like to see one resulting comment from clan (or unclanned) staff that sums up general impression and all comments that come along the way. I think it should apply to average or long lived characters, say, starting with 10 or even 20 playdays. Even if it is still based on one and only offhand comment, it would be easier for me to adapt to it if I knew that note was cross checked by clan staffer, who actually reads clan docs and board, probably has some personal experience with clan or/and role and who had a chance to watch a character in question more than once.

Another thing. I have impression that anonymous notes to accounts are no longer done, but, just in case some staffers do it, I ask to reconsider. You don't have to read my reply to your note, much less answer it, but at least give me a chance to write it. It's healthier that way, seriously.

[HunterKiller]

4.  Account notes - I made the mistake of asking for mine...

I really have to agree with you, but not because your notes were negative. It's not relevant what the imms or other players think of you, the most accurate and relevant feedback you'll receive on your roleplay will be in the game and ultimately by yourself. Receptive players improve because their character's actions are positively or negatively interpreted correctly. Usually the incentive in the game is to be a "good" roleplayer (however you define that) because you get to do more - again, define "more" by your preferences. The whole business of karma, account notes, etc. has its place among administration and perhaps if you're interested in what others think of you, but ultimately imms and other players are just people. Some "good" imms are boobs sometimes and say and do stupid things just like players. Some "bad" imms sometimes do great things, albeit probably accidentally. There are players on here who've started huge clans on their own, have teamed up and been a part of some really cool story lines - do you think they've received bad account notes? You bet, perhaps more bad than good.

The above is important to realize not because of some game but because it's true in real-life. The most valuable & memorable people are those who follow their own path and are often rejected by those who've been in the mix the longest. That's just the way it is. Negativity can be learned from but only if you see real value in what that negativity is, not from who said it. Other times people just won't like you, nothing personal. Sometimes those people will be imms, so? Assholes are like opinions ...  everyone has one. Are you trying to gain their acceptance because of some special guild you're trying to play? Are you grooming yourself to be a part of the imm club? Real feedback is much less obvious and more long-term than some dippy note someone probably wrote immediately after the fact.

If negative imm opinion still bothers you, take heart in the fact that "good" imms can differentiate between relevant and non-relevant feedback.

Arm's just a game. Work up a character where you can have fun with them. If someone else's opinion truly matters to you, become a servant so you can be told how to do things correctly.

- HK

[zanthalandreams]

Yes and, well, thank you HK.  But I think you missed my point.   

[RogueGunslinger]

My account notes got me into playing the game again...

[Kiri]

I left because after months of struggling with clan  IMM neglect and favoritism, I filied a formal complaint that never REALLY got resolved. Extra staff was assigned, but there was still no help, no answer to my pleas for suggestions or direction. There was ONE NPC animation, which didn't really result in anything but my PC being patted on the head and being told basically that she was being replaced by an apped PC.

There were critical issues that never got dealt with IC. Quite frankly, I felt like I was being stalled because the IMMs didn't want to take IC action against the other PCs involved.

The final straw was when, after several emails asking for help dealing with an OOC issue that had to be dealt with IC, I was ignored in favor of a demand for OOC information about my character's personal life (Information I withheld deliberately, as I did not trust the information to get "leaked" via NPCs).

It's pretty discouraging when you KNOW you could improve what you're doing in your role, and ask for help moving in that direction, and instead get ignored or persecuted. And then replaced by an "apped" PC.

[Semper]

Try Arm again in a little bit. Lot's of changes happening with staffing and the game that may limit such experiences like your own, Kiri.

[Fnord]

These are very challenging issues to "fix", if there even is a fix. I can appreciate discussing them though. I've quit before as a result of frustration, and am currently simply taking a break due to being busy RL. It happens to players and imms alike.

In my experience, roles dependent on immortal assistance are the biggest double-edged sword. I was at the heart of a series of plots with a group of players about a year ago that had the most immortal support I've ever seen. It was major, shape-the-world type stuff. Eventually there was a break down, the pivotal PC died, and it set in motion an IC shit storm of epic proportions. There was also a lot of OOC resentment, frustration, etc. I imagine it was also extremely frustrating for the immortals that invested so much time.

By contrast, I've seen more cases of leaders that need imm support but don't get it, ending in frustration, retirement, etc. It's all too easy to judge these situations, except being an imm is a volunteer service, and they probably have their reasons for not being as tangibly involved as some players feel they need to be.

Then there's the issue of "been there, done that" for veteran players. Solution? Be a leader, change the world, make it a more fulfilling place for all around you; but then you run the risk of one of the two scenarios above... a major catch for veteran players considering sponsored roles... which may result in less veteran players taking key sponsored roles... but I've no data to back that up. Gimf?

In the end, the happiest players that I know, in general, are in roles that do not largely depend on the imms. They tend to be leaders, or at least plot developers IC. This small handful of people also seems to be fairly diplomatic when it comes to actually needing the imms, and tend to get the help they need. Why they get that help could be a result of many factors. Maybe the player is simply liked or respected, maybe their imms are very active, maybe because they don't ask for much help it's easier to give when they do. Who knows? What I do know is they just kind of do their thing, regardless of the imms, or maybe in a Zen-like harmony with them, so they can be left alone and trusted to weave their plots.

It's up to each person to figure out how to keep Armageddon the entertainment that it's supposed to be, but that's the recipe most of  the happiest Arm players that I know follow. YMMV.