Veteran drifter - Confessions of a weak will.

[zanthalandreams]

If this has been done better in a thread I just haven't found yet, please link it and I'll go there.  I've read through several threads revisiting the question of veteran drift.  Does it exist or doesn't it?  Is it a problem or isn't it? I realized in reading it that I am one of those drifty veterans being discussed.  I never have posted a flashy exit thread, or dramatically blogged my farewells . . . I just quit logging on and next thing I know a few days has turned into a half a year.  Since I haven't ever examined my reasons before, and I seem to be on a playing streak these days, I thought I'd share some of my drifter's delights and maybe it'll spark some other tell-alls. 

So, here goes:

1.  Daddy is all growed up now - This is probably the biggest one.  When I first discovered mudding, I was young and single with so much free time on my hands it was criminal.  Even taking a full load at Uni and having a part-time job, I still could sink time into playing make-believe.  I could take or support leadership roles and commit to being online enough to make them fun for everyone.  I am now married with two young sons.  None of those three are compassionate to the fact that since this character isn't a ranger, I really need about 20 more minutes to quit playing because it is dark and there's a sandstorm.  That, and playing LEGO with my 4 yr-old wins against killing Scrab #9875345 any day (as it should).

2.  Sandcastle effect - I didn't play Arm for over a year after The Announcement.  Prior to that, it felt like I was a part of something concrete - where the characters I built and the stories I collaboratively participated in would last long enough to have value.  That November, I was shocked into funneling my creative energy into something that . . . well . . . would be better appreciated for a longer amount of time.  An astonishing number of non-Imm players have contributed so much writing and art to this game.  That isn't to detract at all from what the Imms do contribute, but in a lot of ways they have their rewards - if only though expanded access.   Looking back - I have not made any significant contributions to the game from that point on.  This isn't out of anger or petulance.   It just dried up the game for me.   To strain the metaphor some, I still build sandcastles - only now I do it where I have more control of the tide. 

3.  Meet the new boss, sometimes different from the old boss - The few times I've left because of Imm conflicts (and conflict really isn't the right word) usually involved new staff taking over an existing clan.  Whatever their intent, the perception was that old players/customs/ideas/efforts are abandoned in the face of new admin's fresh and exciting ideas.  Since you can't fight city hall, the options are limited.   Suck it up and go along with the changes or get bitter about it.   I tended to take the third option of fading away from playing a game that could become more frustrating than fun.   This didn't happen very often, but did more than once.   Not every Imm was like that - and I even believe that none of them realized that they gave that perception.  Every single Immortal that I took the time to communicate with or report to regularly responded to me professionally and with dignity.  Once drifer reasons #1 and #2 were in play, though, I became guilty of not putting that effort for communication forward. 

4.  Account notes - I made the mistake of asking for mine.  The first couple I read made me giddy with pride and just about threw out my shoulder trying to pat myself on the back.  Then I get to another couple that seemed unfair and out of context.  With the good notes, I figured whoever wrote this must be not only brilliant and empathic but a genuine judge of fine roleplaying ability.   They saw exactly what I wanted them to see, even if I didn't know it at the time.  With the negative notes, this Imm obviously was having a bad day and not only didn't like me but had something personal against my character and chosen clan.  Unprofessional, cowardly even!  Why didn't they just email me and ask me to explain why I was so obviously misunderstood.   (See a pattern there?)   Guess which notes made the most impact on me?   I tend to have very, very long-lived characters (even when I play consistently).  After keeping a PC alive for one, two years IRL and being faithful to the rules, contributing to the environment and the game, imagine what it feels like to have as that character's legacy a negative and anonymous one-line note permanently attached to your character.  When that happened to me, I quit putting so much into my PCs.  The countless emails and accolades, encouragement and support from my clan Imms meant nothing at that point.   It was like baking a single teaspoon of dog crap into a beautiful chocolate cake.  I'm not yet hungry enough to take a bite of that cake.


Those are my top 4, I think.  I haven't quit the game permanently (does anyone ever?).  I hope that none of those reasons were taken as criticisms - especially against this volunteer staff who have maintained a game that has brought a lot of fun into my life.  I play now and enjoy playing now, but I'll drift again.  Because of that, I actively avoid leadership roles.  I avoid playing any more significant characters.  I get my fix, I am naive enough to reach for that same feeling of immersion and significance that I felt when I first pointed to the map.  But the buzz doesn't last like it used to.  Every so often, after a long dry spell of not playing, I will log on and be intrigued by a character or situation in game.  That keeps me around for a while.  When the routine begins to feel like a grind, though, or I get tempted to start contributing again . . . then I find myself fading back.  I'll quit logging in and just read the boards until I stop even doing that.   

So what were your drifter confessions - you who are being discussed and alluded to?   

(e: sp fix)

[RogueGunslinger]

"Veteran drift"?

No it doesn't exist. No it's not a problem. And if it were, there would be nothing reasonable we could do about it. I believe.

[zanthalandreams]

Momma always said I was a unique little snowflake.  There's much better discussion threads elsewhere on if there is a problem or not.  I'm more interested in hearing from folks that have drifted and why.

[manonfire]

It exists.

It's a problem.

There's nothing anyone can do about it. Reviving an interest in the game is upon the player's shoulders. As much as a player wants to believe the world has changed (and not them), it's their responsibility to enjoy the game, whatever the incarnation. Individual players cannot change the game, but get enough like-minded people together, and the magic comes back.

[staggerlee]

"Veteran drift"?

No it doesn't exist. No it's not a problem. And if it were, there would be nothing reasonable we could do about it. I believe.

Well, since it's a game, "losing players" is inevitable and perhaps desirable. People will burn out. Making a big deal out of quitting, or other people quitting, strikes me as silly.
Back when I started MUDing I tried dramatically storming out of a few MUDs, eventually I came to and realized just why it doesn't have the impact I thought it would.

The game goes on. New faces rise up, old ones vanish. People leave, people come back. Things change, and nothing is the same as it was a year ago, five years ago, or fifteen years ago.

If the playerbase didn't change the game would be stagnant. Might as well accept it and go back to having fun.
Sure it's desirable for the playerbase as a whole to remain somewhat cohesive and slowly grow, but I'm told that size isn't everything.

I will say again that I wish there were more ways to remain actively involved with low time commitments, so as to hang onto people like zanthalandreams that have graduated college and found themselves with lives... but other than that? I think the system works.


Veteran players that leave will always be missed, and welcomed when they return. But the game keeps on rocking without them.

[a strange shadow]

#3 and #4 are the most preventable, on both player and staff side. Communication is the key.

[staggerlee]

#3 and #4 are the most preventable, on both player and staff side. Communication is the key.

I  do absolutely agree with that. I'm a big fan of communication. A lot of bitterness and paranoia results from poor communication.
I could ramble about text as a medium, but everyone already knows I'm a nerd. You get the idea.

[Clearsighted]

Great read, OP.

I drifted away for more than a year after the Announcement as well.

I also felt much the same way when I got my account notes for the first time. There were a couple things written on it that were just plain wrong, or at least suggested that whoever had been watching, had begun observing mid-scene and missed everything before that. That bothered me quite a bit at the time.

If an Imm is going to take the time to write a negative account note, can't they at least spare a few seconds to toss a message to the player, so that if nothing else, they can improve?

[Rahnevyn]

Great OP, and as someone else said, yes. Communication is key. Nothing we can do about 1, and the decision and consequences of 2 have already been made, but as for 3 and 4, we definitely can always work to improve player relations.

[Fathi]

I've been on the verge of giving up the game for a while now, and I think the OP makes some excellent points. I don't really think I need to elaborate on them more than it's already been said.

Another situation that tends to cause a lack of interest in veteran players of any game--and was probably the main reason for losing them at the game I used to admin for--is the feeling of "been there, done that." Not that this is why I've lost interest in Armageddon, but I imagine it would apply to a lot of players who've been playing for five, ten, or more years and have played literally dozens of characters. While there probably aren't many players who have played every character archetype and been to every corner of the map, it's easy to feel that way after a string of particularly prolific or long-lived PCs.

And I think the biggest problem with Armageddon (and the reason why I'm not sure the game and I can continue to be friends) is simply the fact that if you want to play a character that gets involved with anything, progresses in their coded skills, maintains relationships with other characters, and maintains relationships with other clans, the expectation for playtime is, in my opinion, far too high. This ties into the OP's #1 reason--there just don't seem to be many roles in Arm that can be fulfilling in any way unless you have 10, 15, 20+ hours a week to contribute to the game.

It sucks to not log on for three days (which doesn't seem like a terribly long break to me at all) and find out that your clannies have divided your stuff amongst themselves and told all your secrets to the public because they decided you were dead.

It sucks to have your character's achievements and contributions to their clan or city be overlooked simply because you aren't able to play as often as some of your contemporaries. And unfortunately, it makes sense that these things happen and I don't really have a solution for it.

I've been advised that if I don't have much time to play, 'flavour' or 'throw-away' PCs are my best bet, but there only seems to be so many of those one can make and still be remotely entertained. I find myself not wanting to put any effort into my concepts or roleplay because in the end, I don't really have time to fully immerse myself in them and the game (and other PCs) don't really acknowledge them simply because I can't devote dozens of hours to playing.

Edited for clarity.

[zanthalandreams]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for answers or fixes.  I just decided to examine what caused me to drift away to see if the same factors were playing into anyone else's gaming.   Anyone who reads past the second sentence knows I'm not even asking if there's a problem.   

Should I, in the spirit of full disclosure, admit that I'm not even in the process of a drift? I'm playing now and enjoying myself immensely.   Part of what has me logging on is that I've found something new to do in the game . . . and I'm able to feed a baby in my lap and play at the same time.  It is amazing how "that damn computer" can turn into your wife's best friend if you just add a boppy pillow and burp rag to the scene.   

Editing to add - even the use of 'drift' implies a lazy sort of return trip back to the game.  Otherwise we'd call it something more permanent or dramatic like veteran hemorrhaging or veteran shrinkage. 

[Prince Prig]

The huge amount of time required on each character to get anything lasting done, only to have them die and start all over again right when you thought you were about to get somewhere with your progress.

[Betaal]

The huge amount of time required on each character to get anything lasting done, only to have them die and start all over again right when you thought you were about to get somewhere with your progress.

Isn't this a double edged sword though?  Wouldn't reducing or minimizing the time and effort required on a given character to get anything lasting done trivialize the sense of accomplishment or make it seem a bit less special because it wasn't achieved through a challenging and length set of steps?

One question I pose to you (general you) is this, "Why do we expect people's playing patterns to be linear?"  It seems much more natural for veteran players to drift in and out of the game as RL issues that impact their free time, they get the desire to play out a certain character concept or achieve a specific goal, or have their taste for gaming swing back to the experience Armageddon MUD provides?

I do think there are issues that can be improved upon to limit elements of veteran or player drift, but I don't know that there needs to be a solution.  I have played Armageddon MUD longer than any other video game I've ever owned, and more consistently than any other game period.  I've taken lengthy breaks during that tenure, for a multitude of reasons, but I've always come back when I was ready to play.

It feels natural to drift.  Is it truly a bad thing?

[Moofassa]

Meh, I left and came back. I left for a good year. Then I felt like living my life as an elf for a day and I'm back. I love the game. To me it boils down to this: I don't care about my karma, I don't really care about account note, I play to have fun. Veterans drift because they start seeing a lack of excitement and fun. Meh, shit happens. Some come back, some don't.



Diclaimer: I play by the rules, I think. Wait, am I drunk?

[Medena]

I left for a year too. Didn't drift away, just left. I wasn't mad or disgruntled, I just decided I had to go. Didn't tell anyone and blocked all the Arm'ers I knew from AIM. In fact, I think I stopped using AIM.

Almost exactly a year later, I started logging into the GDB from work on my lunch hour. About two weeks later, I was back playing Arm.

And have had a great time ever since.

- The End -

[Riev]

I left for a year too. Didn't drift away, just left. I wasn't mad or disgruntled, I just decided I had to go. Didn't tell anyone and blocked all the Arm'ers I knew from AIM. In fact, I think I stopped using AIM.

Almost exactly a year later, I started logging into the GDB from work on my lunch hour. About two weeks later, I was back playing Arm.

And have had a great time ever since.

- The End -

While I'm definitely NOT a 10yr vet or anything of the sort, I still have been taking random breaks here and there. One for a year, another for a few months. Even a week of not logging in has made me start wondering who the hell is who in my city-state.

I think it just takes some time away from the game, otherwise you DO get burned out. Its why people take vacations, but for Arm, you PROBABLY need a few months, especially you people with like 60d played characters back to back.

[Clearsighted]

The huge amount of time required on each character to get anything lasting done, only to have them die and start all over again right when you thought you were about to get somewhere with your progress.

Isn't this a double edged sword though?  Wouldn't reducing or minimizing the time and effort required on a given character to get anything lasting done trivialize the sense of accomplishment or make it seem a bit less special because it wasn't achieved through a challenging and length set of steps?

One question I pose to you (general you) is this, "Why do we expect people's playing patterns to be linear?"  It seems much more natural for veteran players to drift in and out of the game as RL issues that impact their free time, they get the desire to play out a certain character concept or achieve a specific goal, or have their taste for gaming swing back to the experience Armageddon MUD provides?

I do think there are issues that can be improved upon to limit elements of veteran or player drift, but I don't know that there needs to be a solution.  I have played Armageddon MUD longer than any other video game I've ever owned, and more consistently than any other game period.  I've taken lengthy breaks during that tenure, for a multitude of reasons, but I've always come back when I was ready to play.

It feels natural to drift.  Is it truly a bad thing?

Dunno. Sometimes, it can be frustrating to wait so long to do something, that many of those who started off with the same dream, ended up dying just to natural attrition. Talking like, several months here.

[a strange shadow]

Several months... I've worked on the same kerflugging plot for over a year, with nothing doing.

To be fair, blame falls on player turnover as well as lack of staff response, but the two factors together made for a frustrating time with something that should not have been so complicated, at least not in the manner of "keeping it alive". The plot itself could have been as complicated as it liked, but just keeping it going took all my effort. Finally it just... died, and I admit I breathed a sigh of relief.

[staggerlee]

I've been on the verge of giving up the game for a while now, and I think the OP makes some excellent points. I don't really think I need to elaborate on them more than it's already been said.

Another situation that tends to cause a lack of interest in veteran players of any game--and was probably the main reason for losing them at the game I used to admin for--is the feeling of "been there, done that." Not that this is why I've lost interest in Armageddon, but I imagine it would apply to a lot of players who've been playing for five, ten, or more years and have played literally dozens of characters. While there probably aren't many players who have played every character archetype and been to every corner of the map, it's easy to feel that way after a string of particularly prolific or long-lived PCs.

And I think the biggest problem with Armageddon (and the reason why I'm not sure the game and I can continue to be friends) is simply the fact that if you want to play a character that gets involved with anything, progresses in their coded skills, maintains relationships with other characters, and maintains relationships with other clans, the expectation for playtime is, in my opinion, far too high. This ties into the OP's #1 reason--there just don't seem to be many roles in Arm that can be fulfilling in any way unless you have 10, 15, 20+ hours a week to contribute to the game.

It sucks to not log on for three days (which doesn't seem like a terribly long break to me at all) and find out that your clannies have divided your stuff amongst themselves and told all your secrets to the public because they decided you were dead.

It sucks to have your character's achievements and contributions to their clan or city be overlooked simply because you aren't able to play as often as some of your contemporaries. And unfortunately, it makes sense that these things happen and I don't really have a solution for it.

I've been advised that if I don't have much time to play, 'flavour' or 'throw-away' PCs are my best bet, but there only seems to be so many of those one can make and still be remotely entertained. I find myself not wanting to put any effort into my concepts or roleplay because in the end, I don't really have time to fully immerse myself in them and the game (and other PCs) don't really acknowledge them simply because I can't devote dozens of hours to playing.

Edited for clarity.

I think that we enormously limit our player base because of this, and burn out our best and brightest players.
I absolutely agree with the concern here, and it's something that I've rarely if ever seen addressed on a MUD, and never here. It's a pity too, because I'd like to see the game support a player base outside of college/highschools, people on disability, or people that can play from work. We're really limiting ourself that way, and I think it's one of the largest reasons for this "drift."

[Reiloth]

I've been on the verge of giving up the game for a while now, and I think the OP makes some excellent points. I don't really think I need to elaborate on them more than it's already been said.

Another situation that tends to cause a lack of interest in veteran players of any game--and was probably the main reason for losing them at the game I used to admin for--is the feeling of "been there, done that." Not that this is why I've lost interest in Armageddon, but I imagine it would apply to a lot of players who've been playing for five, ten, or more years and have played literally dozens of characters. While there probably aren't many players who have played every character archetype and been to every corner of the map, it's easy to feel that way after a string of particularly prolific or long-lived PCs.

And I think the biggest problem with Armageddon (and the reason why I'm not sure the game and I can continue to be friends) is simply the fact that if you want to play a character that gets involved with anything, progresses in their coded skills, maintains relationships with other characters, and maintains relationships with other clans, the expectation for playtime is, in my opinion, far too high. This ties into the OP's #1 reason--there just don't seem to be many roles in Arm that can be fulfilling in any way unless you have 10, 15, 20+ hours a week to contribute to the game.

It sucks to not log on for three days (which doesn't seem like a terribly long break to me at all) and find out that your clannies have divided your stuff amongst themselves and told all your secrets to the public because they decided you were dead.

It sucks to have your character's achievements and contributions to their clan or city be overlooked simply because you aren't able to play as often as some of your contemporaries. And unfortunately, it makes sense that these things happen and I don't really have a solution for it.

I've been advised that if I don't have much time to play, 'flavour' or 'throw-away' PCs are my best bet, but there only seems to be so many of those one can make and still be remotely entertained. I find myself not wanting to put any effort into my concepts or roleplay because in the end, I don't really have time to fully immerse myself in them and the game (and other PCs) don't really acknowledge them simply because I can't devote dozens of hours to playing.

Edited for clarity.

I think that we enormously limit our player base because of this, and burn out our best and brightest players.
I absolutely agree with the concern here, and it's something that I've rarely if ever seen addressed on a MUD, and never here. It's a pity too, because I'd like to see the game support a player base outside of college/highschools, people on disability, or people that can play from work. We're really limiting ourself that way, and I think it's one of the largest reasons for this "drift."

Staggerlee --- Fathi --- I salute you for this honesty. I believe the quality of a person's play, and not the quantity, should be considered always in Armageddon. Just because they are around all the time does not mean the character is well-fleshed out, deep, well-played, or important. Just because they aren't around all the time doesn't mean the player is lazy, the player doesn't care, the player doesn't want to be involved, or the character is a slack-off.

This is a video game, people. We play it to have fun, not to have homework, or feel forced to log in more often than absolutely neccesary(edit: Or more than you want to! To have fun! Or until your girlfriend beats you to death with a sledgehammer!). That's why people plan meetings, with OOC times, or RPT's, weeks in advance.

[Gimfalisette]

I believe the quality of a person's play, and not the quantity, should be considered always in Armageddon. Just because they are around all the time does not mean the character is well-fleshed out, deep, well-played, or important. Just because they aren't around all the time doesn't mean the player is lazy, the player doesn't care, the player doesn't want to be involved, or the character is a slack-off.

I don't think that most players who play a lot are thinking this of those who don't play as often. I think it's just a natural side effect of there being disparity in playtimes--those who play more get more attention and involvement simply because they're around.

I don't have a good solution to making the game more fun or involving for those with less playtime (or even off-peakers, who suffer a little from the same phenomena). Although I think, possibly, that adding stuff to the game that puts certain things under direct PC control--like PC-owned shops that can be pre-stocked, expanding literacy, other stuff mentioned for 2.ARM--might help. Then even if you can't meet Amos in the virtual flesh because playtimes don't mesh, you can still interact through items and code.

[Gimfalisette]

Adding another note: I too suffer from the drifting thing, and have for about the past year. For myself, it's partly about the quantity of time required to really be involved in the game, but it's also about the challenge I find (or don't find) in the game. I'm not a raw noob anymore, and I need fresh challenges, but they are hard to find in my preferred area of the game (political and social RP).

[RogueGunslinger]

Adding another note: I too suffer from the drifting thing, and have for about the past year. For myself, it's partly about the quantity of time required to really be involved in the game, but it's also about the challenge I find (or don't find) in the game. I'm not a raw noob anymore, and I need fresh challenges, but they are hard to find in my preferred area of the game (political and social RP).

This is the problem I have with the game. It seems that every other rp'er I run into doesn't challenge me as a player anymore.

[zanthalandreams]

No it's not a problem.

This is the problem I have with the game. It seems that every other rp'er I run into doesn't challenge me as a player anymore.

So elaborate a little on this - because I think the two are related.   Do you think these non-challenging roleplayers are folks like me who are actively refusing (for OOC reasons) rising up to a significant role?  Or do you think that it is just a general 'kids these days' thing where the standards are lowering? 

My thinking is that it is the former. 

[jhunter]

The time it requires. Sometimes, as much as I love this game it just becomes too much of a long term investment in order to progress with plots or in a coded sense. When your time becomes limited you start creating roles that don't necessarily get your character involved in things and then your enjoyment of the game suffers because you aren't as involved.
At least that's what it's been like for me off and on the last couple of years. Being a parent to a young child is a big part of it too. I surely do miss when I could invest the time in a character and get involved in things more like I once used to.