Retaining new players (and vets)

[number13]

I don't want to pollute the meeting topics thread with my wall of text on the subject of retaining new players. I think retaining the interest of veteran players is strongly influenced by the number of new players recruited and retained.  Simply, it's hard to be minion-less leader, and new players can add vicariously to the sense of wonder vet players experience.

1) New players get lost easily and give up trying
This afflicts Tuluk in particular, but Allanak has it's share of lost noobs as well. I've seen a couple few frustrated newbies simply give up the ghost right in the middle of Tuluk because they can't find shit.  The city layout is not friendly on an OOC level. Finding the waterseller, for example -- that's an epic adventure that should be worth a couple thousand XP points.

Solution: A mostly complete, very friendly map for Tuluk and Allanak with all the points of interest to a newer player clearly marked.  A Nakki character should know where the Rinth is, and not to go there.  A character that has lived their entire life in a city shouldn't have to ask where to find the tailor or waterseller. Shorten some more streets in Tuluk. Blast some walls in Freil's Rest to make the market area more Bazaar-ish. Put picture signs up outside the huts of the waterseller, tailor, weapon, clothing and armor shops.  Perhaps block off certain streets that lead into a confusing loops.

Exploring the wilderness, the Rinth or UnderTuluk can be fun. Those places are meant to be the unknown. Having to run circles in order to find basic equipment is not fun.  I've played a decent number of hours in Tuluk, and it's only just recently that I've managed to get a good picture of it in my head. It was far easier to learn the Rinth, and that's just wrong.

2) The Rinth and Red Storm are too dangerous to be appropriate start locations for new players. Luirs is too barren of PCs to be an appropriate start location.
* Require that a player have three characters before they are allowed to create a Rinth, Red Storm, or Luirs resident. Barring a good map, require a couple characters before a new player is allowed to make a Tuluki resident. 

3) It's difficult to become involved, especially for off-peak newbie players
* A newbie-friendly staff member animates an NPC and goes around hiring up newbies teaching them as a consistent activity. Activity should be something exciting -- ie, not constant sparring or crafting. Rotate staff in and out of this position frequently to avoid burn out, include an off-peak staffer.  (Sort of a staff Helper position...)

* Dangle karma points as a reward for players who take on a stable of newbies and gives them interesting activities. Announce that is it such.

4) Death can be mighty discouraging
* Staff sends an email at the start of a character's life. It could be nicer to have one at the end. Perhaps some simple stats on the character as a reward (if the information is already available in the db), words of encouragement, a link to the webpage that contains the character's bio and diary entries.  If staff has information about a stupid death, a little advice on how to avoid it in the future. (don't drink strange things. that elf was not your friend, etc.)

* Add more grain to Karma, more rewards. Revamp it entirely to be a point spend system. Earn 1 karma per day of a character's life if staff decides the character wasn't twinkish or actively suicidal, with bonuses applied for 'good' characters. Automatic karma review by a staff member at the end of a character's life.

Option to spend the karma to add skill points at character creation (including special skills that normally have to be branched, like some of the funkier weapon skills), add special (or not so special) objects to a new character's inventory, or give minor bumps to stats. Thus death would not be so entirely sad, because the player now has new options to try out nearly every time.

5) It can be intimidating to ask for help in game
* Post a link to a helper irc channel. Have friendly players/staff positioned there to assist with character creation, answer simple questions. Alternately, create a global Help channel in game with appropriate protections to guard against OOC-IC infractions.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I agree with most of your post, but I don't think that every single person should -have- to be funneled through Allanak pending a map. I hate that place. If I'd had to make my first character there, you would have found them LD in the middle of the road. And me having never logged back in. And I know, personally, from people I've spoken with, that it would have been fairly the same with them. Don't make being a warrior Nakki bynner who plays at peak time and is named Amos the standard for all new characters. Sorry, but that just sucks.

(Double-agree on the karma idea, though, I think that's just freaking beautiful.)

[tortall]

1) New players get lost easily and give up trying
This afflicts Tuluk in particular, but Allanak has it's share of lost noobs as well. I've seen a couple few frustrated newbies simply give up the ghost right in the middle of Tuluk because they can't find shit.  The city layout is not friendly on an OOC level. Finding the waterseller, for example -- that's an epic adventure that should be worth a couple thousand XP points.

Yes, the current map sucks. Yes, Tuluk is large. But that map does give you a general idea of where to look for stuff. Freils Rest is not THAT big. It is SMALLER than the Bazaar.

Solution: A mostly complete, very friendly map for Tuluk and Allanak with all the points of interest to a newer player clearly marked.  A Nakki character should know where the Rinth is, and not to go there.  A character that has lived their entire life in a city shouldn't have to ask where to find the tailor or waterseller. Shorten some more streets in Tuluk. Blast some walls in Freil's Rest to make the market area more Bazaar-ish. Put picture signs up outside the huts of the waterseller, tailor, weapon, clothing and armor shops.  Perhaps block off certain streets that lead into a confusing loops.

There is a reason Freils is NOT designed like Nak. It is not Nak. It in a nice pretty shopping center where the nobles, templars, merchants, and higher class commoners come to shop. Think fancy outdoor mall.

2) The Rinth and Red Storm are too dangerous to be appropriate start locations for new players. Luirs is too barren of PCs to be an appropriate start location.
* Require that a player have three characters before they are allowed to create a Rinth, Red Storm, or Luirs resident. Barring a good map, require a couple characters before a new player is allowed to make a Tuluki resident. 

If the players bothered the read the docs, they would know that they should start in either Tuluk or Allanak.

If you are from Luirs: What your character would know if s/he is from Luirs Outpost, which lies in the Red Desert, between the cities of Allanak and Tuluk. Not recommended as a starting location for new players.

If you are from Red Storm: What your character would know if s/he is from the spice-gathering village of Red Storm, far to the south on the shore of the Silt Sea. Not recommended as a starting location for new players.

Directly taken from the Introduction page where they would learn "What You Know".

3) It's difficult to become involved, especially for off-peak newbie players
* A newbie-friendly staff member animates an NPC and goes around hiring up newbies teaching them as a consistent activity. Activity should be something exciting -- ie, not constant sparring or crafting. Rotate staff in and out of this position frequently to avoid burn out, include an off-peak staffer.  (Sort of a staff Helper position...)

This is a good idea, but I do not think it would work. Staff is VERY picky about who they taken on. Just having someone in to animate NPCs would not be useful. Better use would be for a player to log on and RP with the n00bs.

* Dangle karma points as a reward for players who take on a stable of newbies and gives them interesting activities. Announce that is it such.

If this were the case, I would have been maxed out on krama years ago. Karma is about being able to handle RP intense roles and being able to restrain yourself from powergaming and/or twinking.

4) Death can be mighty discouraging
* Staff sends an email at the start of a character's life. It could be nicer to have one at the end. Perhaps some simple stats on the character as a reward (if the information is already available in the db), words of encouragement, a link to the webpage that contains the character's bio and diary entries.  If staff has information about a stupid death, a little advice on how to avoid it in the future. (don't drink strange things. that elf was not your friend, etc.)

While that would be nice, I rather doubt that staff has time for such. There is so much more that needs to be done, and people die every day. Perhaps adding a link to the bio page for their Welcome to Armageddon character creation email instead?

* Add more grain to Karma, more rewards. Revamp it entirely to be a point spend system. Earn 1 karma per day of a character's life if staff decides the character wasn't twinkish or actively suicidal, with bonuses applied for 'good' characters. Automatic karma review by a staff member at the end of a character's life.

My current character has 46 days on her. In 3 Zalanthan years. With 231 days in a month, and 3 months, then 3 years... That's a lot of karma. Karma isn't that important. I have only played a karma character once, and I enjoy my warrior/ranger/merchant humans so much more than anything else I have played.

Option to spend the karma to add skill points at character creation (including special skills that normally have to be branched, like some of the funkier weapon skills), add special (or not so special) objects to a new character's inventory, or give minor bumps to stats. Thus death would not be so entirely sad, because the player now has new options to try out nearly every time.

While this SOUNDS like a good idea, there is a reason we have guilds and subguilds. This isn't D&D where you have points and get to spend them wherever you want them to. You are a specialized character, not someone that can run around and make uber crafts and kill bahamets with your bare hands. Having special skills is rare for a reason.

5) It can be intimidating to ask for help in game
* Post a link to a helper irc channel. Have friendly players/staff positioned there to assist with character creation, answer simple questions. Alternately, create a global Help channel in game with appropriate protections to guard against OOC-IC infractions.

The help channel has been discussed before. I am far too lazy to search for it, but there was a reason it was never put in. There are so many ways to help newbies ig and not go ooc. I have done it many times. When I'm a leader, most of my underlings are n00bs. Why? Well, for one thing I like helping. For another, I know that because I helped them and showed them the robes and got them DOING something, they're more likely to come back.

If you are also playing a nobody? Just RP with them. Ask them about their life, tell them about yours(or lie about yours), get a conversation going. That's all it really takes.

My first favorite newbie memory was some bard competition in Nak at the Barrel(this was during the occupation). I didn't do anything. I just sat there and watched everyone else RP and I had a GREAT time! I learned from watching others. So all you tavern sitters DO something. Yes, stay in the tavern and go play cards, drink, talk about the next big event, talk about your plans, your dreams.... It's stuff like THAT that'll make n00bs stick around. Trust me.

[number13]

There is a reason Freils is NOT designed like Nak. It is not Nak. It in a nice pretty shopping center where the nobles, templars, merchants, and higher class commoners come to shop. Think fancy outdoor mall.

That's nice, but it's still an unnecessary maze.  While it may be smaller than the Nakki Bazaar in terms of rooms (actually don't know if that's true), you have the funhouse effect creating an illusion that it's much larger.

It just doesn't function well. It's frustrating to learn, yet it's almost vital for any player in Tuluk to have a good mental map of the area.

[mansa]

I find that people create a character, log in, buy equipment, and then stop and go...

What do I do now?

And then log out forever.

[Cutthroat]

1) New players get lost easily and give up trying
This afflicts Tuluk in particular, but Allanak has it's share of lost noobs as well. I've seen a couple few frustrated newbies simply give up the ghost right in the middle of Tuluk because they can't find shit.  The city layout is not friendly on an OOC level. Finding the waterseller, for example -- that's an epic adventure that should be worth a couple thousand XP points.

Solution: A mostly complete, very friendly map for Tuluk and Allanak with all the points of interest to a newer player clearly marked.  A Nakki character should know where the Rinth is, and not to go there.  A character that has lived their entire life in a city shouldn't have to ask where to find the tailor or waterseller. Shorten some more streets in Tuluk. Blast some walls in Freil's Rest to make the market area more Bazaar-ish. Put picture signs up outside the huts of the waterseller, tailor, weapon, clothing and armor shops.  Perhaps block off certain streets that lead into a confusing loops.

Exploring the wilderness, the Rinth or UnderTuluk can be fun. Those places are meant to be the unknown. Having to run circles in order to find basic equipment is not fun.  I've played a decent number of hours in Tuluk, and it's only just recently that I've managed to get a good picture of it in my head. It was far easier to learn the Rinth, and that's just wrong.

In my opinion, after a little bit of walking around, Freil's Rest is about as confusing as the Allanaki bazaar. And they are both only slightly confusing. Sure, the layouts are different, but the layout can be learned rather easily by looking at the currently existing maps. I'm fairly certain the "What you Know" docs are pretty clear about how bad the 'rinth is supposed to be. I also think a player that would have to ask where to find things shouldn't have made a character whose background implies they lived their entire life in a city, and if they did, they shouldn't be embarrassed to do so.

2) The Rinth and Red Storm are too dangerous to be appropriate start locations for new players. Luirs is too barren of PCs to be an appropriate start location.
* Require that a player have three characters before they are allowed to create a Rinth, Red Storm, or Luirs resident. Barring a good map, require a couple characters before a new player is allowed to make a Tuluki resident. 

There are places in the documentation that will strongly advise making a character for Allanak or Tuluk. Perhaps if a staffer notices a new player's PC's background is tailored for starting in one of those places, they should slip a little note into the approval e-mail that they're in for a rough ride, and may benefit from finding a Helper. I think if a newbie truly wants to make a character in one of these places, they should still be allowed.

3) It's difficult to become involved, especially for off-peak newbie players
* A newbie-friendly staff member animates an NPC and goes around hiring up newbies teaching them as a consistent activity. Activity should be something exciting -- ie, not constant sparring or crafting. Rotate staff in and out of this position frequently to avoid burn out, include an off-peak staffer.  (Sort of a staff Helper position...)

* Dangle karma points as a reward for players who take on a stable of newbies and gives them interesting activities. Announce that is it such.

I somewhat agree with this point. It is hard for newbies to get involved. However, there are plenty of Leader PCs out there willing to hire newbies. I have seen hiring interviews plenty of times before where the employer finally says "You should find Sergeant Kankmaster of the T'zai Byn, I can't hire you" simply on the grounds that the potential employee seemed like a newbie - this is a wasted opportunity to hook a player to the game.

I strongly believe that the only reward for players who help newbies should be satisfaction and "feeling good".

4) Death can be mighty discouraging
* Staff sends an email at the start of a character's life. It could be nicer to have one at the end. Perhaps some simple stats on the character as a reward (if the information is already available in the db), words of encouragement, a link to the webpage that contains the character's bio and diary entries.  If staff has information about a stupid death, a little advice on how to avoid it in the future. (don't drink strange things. that elf was not your friend, etc.)

* Add more grain to Karma, more rewards. Revamp it entirely to be a point spend system. Earn 1 karma per day of a character's life if staff decides the character wasn't twinkish or actively suicidal, with bonuses applied for 'good' characters. Automatic karma review by a staff member at the end of a character's life.

Option to spend the karma to add skill points at character creation (including special skills that normally have to be branched, like some of the funkier weapon skills), add special (or not so special) objects to a new character's inventory, or give minor bumps to stats. Thus death would not be so entirely sad, because the player now has new options to try out nearly every time.

If I recall correctly SoI autosends you a nice little e-mail after your character dies. It would be nice to see something like that.

Automatically earning karma per day is not a good idea to me. Tortall touched on why and I firmly agree with that.

5) It can be intimidating to ask for help in game
* Post a link to a helper irc channel. Have friendly players/staff positioned there to assist with character creation, answer simple questions. Alternately, create a global Help channel in game with appropriate protections to guard against OOC-IC infractions.

It would be nice to see something like a channel outside of game, if it was allowed.

[Adhira]

Nice thread. Please keep up the discussion, perhaps we can find a few ideas that will be easy to implement.

Could someone give me more details on the email after a character dies. Is it a generic type email?

[Cutthroat]

Hello,

   Our records indicate that your PC, [PCNAME], has recently passed on. For
your convenience and future reference, we have taken the liberty of
compiling all of his journal entries, in-game board posts and in-
character writings; they are attached below.

   Thanks for playing, and we hope to see you back again soon.


                                           Best Regards,
                                           The Admin Team

The e-mail goes on to list journal entries (like biography posts) as well as IG board posts and anything the character wrote.

Other things could be included in the Arm version of the e-mail is the 'score' of the character, to list days played, stats, et cetera, as well as what the character was killed by, among other things.

[FantasyWriter]

Hello,

   Our records indicate that your PC, [PCNAME], has recently passed on. For
your convenience and future reference, we have taken the liberty of
compiling all of his journal entries, in-game board posts and in-
character writings; they are attached below.

   Thanks for playing, and we hope to see you back again soon.


                                           Best Regards,
                                           The Admin Team

The e-mail goes on to list journal entries (like biography posts) as well as IG board posts and anything the character wrote.

Other things could be included in the Arm version of the e-mail is the 'score' of the character, to list days played, stats, et cetera, as well as what the character was killed by, among other things.

This would be great... also any staff notes you gained while playing the PC would be appreciated.

[Adhira]

Thanks Cutthroat for the details, I will do some more investigation on the possibility of that being implemented.

[Malifaxis]

Hello,

   Our records indicate that your PC, [PCNAME], has recently passed on. For
your convenience and future reference, we have taken the liberty of
compiling all of his journal entries, in-game board posts and in-
character writings; they are attached below.

   Thanks for playing, and we hope to see you back again soon.


                                           Best Regards,
                                           The Admin Team

The e-mail goes on to list journal entries (like biography posts) as well as IG board posts and anything the character wrote.

Other things could be included in the Arm version of the e-mail is the 'score' of the character, to list days played, stats, et cetera, as well as what the character was killed by, among other things.

Holy fuck yes.

[Lakota]

Good ideas all around.

I disagree with the karma idea though. That would simply dilute the meaning of karma to me, though. Over time, it would unbalance the game for obvious reasons. I say keep that as it is, but place more emphasis on the review flag system, both players and staff.

[Dar]

Armageddon the Single player!

To help alleviate those new players that would leave once realizing how complicated the application process is. Create a single player version of Armageddon! Basicallly the same as Armageddon, except limited to the cities and maybe a 'small' area of the wilds. It would have signs all over the place with OOC advice, explanation of nosave, of steal, explanations of this, explanations of that. It would have tour guides of the city, it would have shopkeepers who sell some generic stuff.

So, upon logging into the account (pre-entering the game). A player would have an opportunity to enter the single player Armageddon, instead of creating a new character. Should he choose to enter the single player version. He would be explained the details of character application for the real armageddon, and be given an option to to choose a character or create one. The player would have an option of a number of pregenerated characters with prewritten mdescs and prewritten backgrounds and 'notes' on behavior, mannerisms, etc (Much like the examples on the website) that he will, I'm sure, read through out of sheer curiousity. He would select only one, but he'll get the examples of all sorts of different roles that he can play in the real game. Or he can go through a regular application process, create his own character which will be insta approved for the single player game.

As long as it's stated clearly enough that all those are just examples, and that a real, life brimming world awaits the player once he creates a real application and gets it approved. With a specific mention that the character he's playing now is 'temporary' and nothing a player does in the single player will affect the real one. I believe the player would often use the examples given within the virtual game to piece together an application for the multi-player game, and then stick around to explore the city, preparing himself for the game.

If the single player version is created well, with various scripted instances that would allow him to experience certain 'wtfpwnings' many veterans have experienced, without the aggravation of 'another' 24 hour wait for the new application. Aswell as basic hints and guidance on where to get food and water. I believe that such a world would A ... keep players busy and interested while they wait for special app, retaining those players, and B ... teach players the unique Armageddon style 'caution', so once they do get approved ... they wont have to reapply in 3 hours, only because they were giddy into getting in on the action.

[Jingo]

Armageddon the Single player!

I actually like this idea.

[Archbaron]

The Merchant's Road in Allanak needs to be trimmed.

That thing is the fucking devil.

[Fathi]

I'd like to see the starting location of the 'Rinth moved slightly. Or at least have that room flagged as indoor.

Not that I think too many new players are starting out in the 'Rinth, but logging on straight to

Code Select Expand

You can't see a thing; sand swirls around you!

... for ten to twenty minutes is a real pisser for a first-time 'Rinthi player.

I don't necessarily think one of the taverns would be appropriate, but spawning in an outdoor room at night sucks.

[Qzzrbl]

I'd like to see the starting location of the 'Rinth moved slightly. Or at least have that room flagged as indoor.

Not that I think too many new players are starting out in the 'Rinth, but logging on straight to

Code Select Expand

You can't see a thing; sand swirls around you!

... for ten to twenty minutes is a real pisser for a first-time 'Rinthi player.

I don't necessarily think one of the taverns would be appropriate, but spawning in an outdoor room at night sucks.

It'd be neat if starting locations differed for race in 'Rinth.

[Lizzie]

There are lots of awesome new players. And there are lots of new players who don't care about roleplaying, OR don't know anything about roleplaying, OR haven't TRIED to learn about the game, OR haven't TRIED to read any of the docs or helpfiles, or HAVE read all that, and think it doesn't apply to them and leader PCs will just put aside all their plotlines to hold the new players' hands and pretend they don't actually have things to do IC that doesn't involve telling a new player 20 times in a row how to use the TALK command.

I've had a few of those awesome new players in clans I've been a "leader" PC in before. I've -mostly- been stuck with the ones who don't care, or aren't interested, or aren't trying, or expect me to do all the work for them. Frankly at this point, I'm not too interested in new player retention. I'd rather focus on new player education.

[Prince Prig]

I know personally, one of the biggest reasons that I stayed on with Armageddon was interaction with other PCs, and getting a chance to use the versatility of the emoting system. Without it being discovered, I doubt I would have come back. Although I did stop playing for a bit due to being lost as to what to do next, I really couldn't find any other MU** out there that allowed the flexibility of emoting and interaction (ultimately role play) with PCs that Arm did.

With that in mind, I'd like to see something that allows new players a chance to watch a series of role play interactions using the emoting system. What comes to mind which I found on some muds was that they allowed new players to re-enact or live through a portion of the game's history. I'm not saying we need to make a whole new area just for newbs, but maybe a brief flash-back of certain times of Arm's history while they're at the Hall of Kings (is that what it's called?).

My memory's fuzzy, but I recall you being able to "look" at portions of the wall or something, and you get a list of starting locations. Instead of the list, maybe at first you get a chance to "look" at flash-backs of Arm's history that isn't IG sensitive, but would give new players an idea of what they could expect if they kept playing. They'd be like ghosts that are spectating, while the characters they are watching might be past PCs interacting with each other (in the form of a log or other). Or even to be able to "possess" one of the characters, and "see" what the character is thinking and feeling.

[Edited to add]: In other words, a more interactive form of the logs posted on the general website for starting characters to be able to "look" at when they are in the Hall of Kings. I always expected there to be -something- else in the Hall of Kings (I still don't know if this is the right term for the place) besides seeing the starting locations.

[Melody]

New maps! Please!

I've been playing Arm for a while now. I can get from one end of Allanak to another end in a blinding storm at night without being a ranger. I still get lost in Tuluk every other day. The map there iis a pretty picture that did me no good whatsoever. Personally, I regard Tuluk layout with a hatred that is almost holy. The only time I stay there for long is being forced to do it.

I think more labels/landmarks/whatever would be major helpful on the maps, something that picks out all the important places, shops and taverns. I always yearn for a magnifying glass whenever I want to look at that map, and it takes me about 10 minutes of staring before I can figure out what I was looking for. (yes, I am map illiterate) Maybe an online version with just a splash of color for waterseller, and other essential spots. It would be heaven sent.

The death email sounds like a lovely idea too. Not many people can remember the online bio site. I have it permanently bookmarked myself. Although I am not sure about staff/account notes on the dead character. I have never requested for the notes once, and I do not really want to know or see how much I fucked up in the past.

[SMuz]

IMHO, as a new Arm player, it's ridiculous to expect the players to read the docs before playing. There are thousands of horrible MUDs out there, and on both TMC and TMS, Arm just doesn't stick out from the rest. I've played easily a hundred other MUDs before this and after sifting through one every hour, I'm not going to bother to go through the documentation, unless I know that it's a good one.

I think that new players should only be allowed to play human as their first character. There's a lot of stuff to take in on playing a non-human. It's a huge amount of roleplay, and the extra racism against them doesn't help the player get into the game.

Also, I think Red Storm and Luir's should be disabled for the first 2 chars, and the 'rinth after their first 'Naki character. All three are poor introductions to the game. Also, Red Storm has a very interesting background, which almost made me start there.

I think players are newbie-friendly enough, just as long as you have the newbie equipment on. I had a good start to the game even without a helper, though my first character went broke trying to craft stuff. But what SoI does is that they encourage you to join up with an existing clan, which I agree, is the best way to learn how to play the game. Sure, you could be an indie hunter.. but it's a lot easier learning to hunt from within a clan, where you'd know from day 0 that it's easier to skin a dead thing with a proper skinning knife, instead of a dagger.

I also like the death email idea. OOCly, my favorite part of the game was when a staff told me about what I was doing wrong in the game. Made me feel special that the imms themselves were watching me, not just leaving me out there to rot Any personally written email will do, I think.

[Fool]

Limiting starting options to human is an interesting idea. I like it. Tinker with the Karma system a little bit so that karma one gives current starting options. Give the first point of karma out easy, for basically not being a muppet. Gives the new player a relatively quick sense of acheivement.

It also adds a psychological barrier to leaving, after all you've put in effort and you have that reward on the table already, if you just quit it'd be wasted. Its like poker, people often play hands they should fold becuase they look at how many chips they've already thrown in the pot and think to themselves "Well if I stopped now it would be a waste...".

Other than that I would say that a strong and active T'zai Byn is the easiest and most effective thing you can work on for new player retention. They go join it, have a schedule of stuff to do, people they can interact with doing it, travel around seeing cool stuff. Oh an they get eaten quick enough that any glaring newb mistakes are soon erased. After they've been in the Byn they usually have some vague idea about various commands and know enough about the world in general to have a few ideas for characters they'd like to try out (ie: are addicted)

[AmandaGreathouse]

I don't know about only playing humans. Maybe just make c-elves a 1 karma race? I know I haven't personally seen people have too large of an issue playing dwarves or half-elves. But I -have- seen way too many of the people that either, a) don't read the docs and make legolas chars who don't steal at all and wonder why everyone isn't in love with them, or b) simply disregard the tribe thing for c-elves since they are 'pcs', or c) read the docs and make an ub3rl33t elven thief with sneak permatoggled, and it doesn't seem to be an issue with people who've been playing for a while.

[RogueGunslinger]

There are lots of awesome new players. And there are lots of new players who don't care about roleplaying, OR don't know anything about roleplaying, OR haven't TRIED to learn about the game, OR haven't TRIED to read any of the docs or helpfiles, or HAVE read all that, and think it doesn't apply to them and leader PCs will just put aside all their plotlines to hold the new players' hands and pretend they don't actually have things to do IC that doesn't involve telling a new player 20 times in a row how to use the TALK command.

I've had a few of those awesome new players in clans I've been a "leader" PC in before. I've -mostly- been stuck with the ones who don't care, or aren't interested, or aren't trying, or expect me to do all the work for them. Frankly at this point, I'm not too interested in new player retention. I'd rather focus on new player education.

Moot point. Most player education is garnered through playing with vets. Hence why we need to retain them, and newbies alike.

[Morgenes]

I also like the death email idea. OOCly, my favorite part of the game was when a staff told me about what I was doing wrong in the game. Made me feel special that the imms themselves were watching me, not just leaving me out there to rot Any personally written email will do, I think.

Just a note here, from the context of this, I think there may be some confusion about the implementation of this 'death email' idea.  Staff will not be watching for characters to die and going off and personally sending email when they do.  This would be something that would be automated, that when your character dies the game generates an email and sends it to you.

[LoD]

I know that there's information that's kept from character-to-character on each player, which can be requested through the request tool, but what if there was more of a 'comment' command Staff could use when viewing/observing a PC's relative behavior (good or bad) that wouldn't necessarily be something that needs to transcend that specific character.

Perhaps those comments might be something that is distributed with the automated "death" email and could serve to help that player learn what the Staff observed of them.  Questions surrounding this might be:

1. Is no information better than bad information as far as retention goes?
2. With the less active role in running clans, would Storytellers be more apt to supply such comments?
3. Would receiving a death email with no comments push someone one way or the other, if they expected or hoped there would be comments?
4. Would it help to have 1-2 Storytellers who manage "new players" (perhaps noted by an * or something to Staff when playing their first characters) and are encouraged to supply more feedback when someone is just beginning?

It seems like people enjoy feedback, but I wonder if a system like this would be a benefit or a hindrance based on some of the above mentioned factors.

-LoD

[RogueGunslinger]

I also like the death email idea. OOCly, my favorite part of the game was when a staff told me about what I was doing wrong in the game. Made me feel special that the imms themselves were watching me, not just leaving me out there to rot Any personally written email will do, I think.

Just a note here, from the context of this, I think there may be some confusion about the implementation of this 'death email' idea.  Staff will not be watching for characters to die and going off and personally sending email when they do.  This would be something that would be automated, that when your character dies the game generates an email and sends it to you.

How about an automated e-mail randomly chosen from a list of pre-created, personal feeling, e-mails.

[My 2 sids]

(my post didn't post?  )

I think the Docs are key to both Newbie and Vet retention.

Newbies:  Arm is both wonderful and wonderfully complex world.  The easier it is for newbies to learn how to interact and how to get involved (difference between knowing syntax and knowing how to get involved in plots) is crucial to get and keep player interest.

The Docs need organized in a way that is both informative AND different from reserching a thesis.  They also need to be followed in a way so the newbie player can accuratly predict the IC conciquences of their actions (if they can't someone predict, then the game becomes frustrating) 

*  Maybe the idea of smallar starting pools would be good because it would require less documantation for the newbie to read through before starting. 

*  More walkthoughs and some good Logs to read over gives a better sense of what to expect and what to get excited about

*  Heck, maybe even put some "teaching NPCs" in some of the starting houses to help educate ICly

The Docs also are a great way to retain vet. players.  The docs are what reminds players about the infinate possiblities!  The game only remains fresh and exciting when players get the chance to have new experences with every new PC.

Sometimes the PC-to-PC interaction has a way of making Zanathas very small and constrictive (you're 'rinith PC is known to the Tuluki nobility; the experence of being a guard to Oash becomes much like the experence of being a Bynner; being an aide to the templarate is much like being an independent crafter because they both present the same possibilites and often interact within the same plotlines).  The Documantation speaks for all the VNPCs and NPCs who make Zanathas much bigger and less constrictive (a reminder that no matter how rich your breed gemmer may be, he's always going to be spat upon; a reminder that once you set foot outside the 'rinith you're a target of soldiers; the possiblity that as a young noble you could bring shame upon your family if your name gets mocked in a bard's song)

Keep things separate and allined with the documantation ensures a player can have a wide variety of experences with every new PC = that means the player has interest in the GAME, not just one character and then takes off after it's death.

[number13]

How about an automated e-mail randomly chosen from a list of pre-created, personal feeling, e-mails.

Dear Sir/Madame--

It is with a heavy heart that I noticed the demise of AMOSASSKICKER. The character was a true joy to snoop on. I fondly recall the time he WTF! that guy just one-shot sapped every single NPC in Traders, one by one. His death due to Spontaneous Combustion was a tragedy.

We dearly hope and encourage you create a new character and rejoin the game soon.  Our records show that you have earned -100 karma over the course of AMOSASSKICKER's life.

[garbanzo]

How about an automated e-mail randomly chosen from a list of pre-created, personal feeling, e-mails.

Oh man ... I had so many devious responses to this suggestion that I couldn't pick between them and thus I'll just move on and say ...

I think a system that e-mails some sort of feedback to characters is a great idea.  However, for many new characters, I imagine, it will be unlikely that there will be much feedback to give.  If the character is three hours old and was just smooshed by a scrab or fell of the shield wall... well ... I guess a generic "cheer up and come back" e-mail IS a good idea.  There'd just have to be a way not to send such an e-mail to old-timers who might feel it was salt in the wounds to get a generic "cheer up" message.

[staggerlee]

How about an automated e-mail randomly chosen from a list of pre-created, personal feeling, e-mails.

There'd just have to be a way not to send such an e-mail to old-timers who might feel it was salt in the wounds to get a generic "cheer up" message.

To be totally blunt, sometimes old timers need to throttle that sense of entitlement, and just chill out a bit.

[My 2 sids]

Can I suggest IC family as a way to help Newbies?

Being someone's brother/sister/cousin can link a veteran player and a newbie player in IC context.  Then the noob's PC has an IC opprotunity to shadow and watch vet. players in action.  At the same time vet. players have an IC opprotunity to say "no, back it down... that's now how things are done around here" if a Noob PC gets our of line/ goes beyond approprate IC behavior. 

Maybe a Helper's Board or something where a player can annonously say "I want to create a hunter/ trader" and then be matched up with a veteran player and together make some kind of IC connection.   

[Thunkkin]

Maybe a Helper's Board or something where a player can annonously say "I want to create a hunter/ trader" and then be matched up with a veteran player and together make some kind of IC connection.   

I really like this idea.  I understand fully the reasons why staff don't want 'regular' players doing all their clan recruitment and friend-finding through the OOC mechanism of the GDB.  However, I really think such a board would be VERY beneficial for the game.  I think it would really cut down on the number of newbies that log in, aren't sure what they want to do immediately, and then end up wandering out into the desert OR they're hoping to join an organization, their use of the way sucks, and they just get frustrated after starving alone in an inn somewhere.

[FantasyWriter]

When a newbie contacts me through the helper page, I usually try to send them towards a clan that I know has active PCs who will suit their and their PC's interest.

It the rare case where this doesn't work, I have played matchmaker to get them to meet with another PC "veteran" player IG and handle things IC from there.

I would never steer someone that I knew I would be helping OOC to deal with me IC, that would just be wierd, awkward... and against the rules.

http://www.armageddon.org/intro/helperrules.html


[edited to add:]
Becoming a helper is a great way to help retain new players, btw.

[My 2 sids]

The problem with steering newbies to clans though is then we get entire clans of the newbie leading the newbies AND/OR vet players being OOCly forced to play babysitter/ make decisions OOCly because suddenly they're serounded by PCs who can't interact the way other vet players PCs would act.


As you said, play matchmaker.   I'm not asking OOC helpers to go IC.  I'm saying a board that plays IC matchmaker.

[Gimfalisette]

The problem with steering newbies to clans though is then we get entire clans of the newbie leading the newbies AND/OR vet players being OOCly forced to play babysitter/ make decisions OOCly because suddenly they're serounded by PCs who can't interact the way other vet players PCs would act.

This really wouldn't be an issue if the Byn, Kadius, Kurac, and Salarr all simultaneously had decent leadership that could take a newbie or three under their wings. Then there would be clan hookups for newbies in both Nak and Tuluk. The problem is that usually, only one or maybe two of those clans has leadership that's up for this task.

When I led in AoD, we didn't take -complete- newbies due to the OOC requirements of the role (since soldiers with attack-crim powerz can really screw other PCs up), but we generally had one or two newer players who were still learning much about the game, and it wasn't all that difficult to fit them in. So, one or two or three newbies at once seems pretty handle-able to me, as a leader.

[FantasyWriter]

The problem with steering newbies to clans though is then we get entire clans of the newbie leading the newbies AND/OR vet players being OOCly forced to play babysitter/ make decisions OOCly because suddenly they're serounded by PCs who can't interact the way other vet players PCs would act.

Yeah, I have been there before... this is always something that it difficult to deal with.
I would assume that most new players are recruited by current players, rather than through websites or randomly stumbling upon it.

Most of the people I have brought into the game, I have had them make characters that I could work with and teach ICly (or at least IGly).
Be sure to block them from your IM during these times though (it will save you much sanity).

[My 2 sids]

This really wouldn't be an issue if the Byn, Kadius, Kurac, and Salarr all simultaneously had decent leadership that could take a newbie or three under their wings. Then there would be clan hookups for newbies in both Nak and Tuluk. The problem is that usually, only one or maybe two of those clans has leadership that's up for this task.

That's really two different leaderships though:  OOC leadership for new players AND IC leadership for the clan.  That's a lot to ask one player (here, your role is to IC achieve the clan's IC goals  BUT do so in a way that allows you to OOCly take care of the newbie players)

It's an entierly different PC concept to create a PC who is willing to show the ropes to a kid with potential.  It's quite another to create a PC you know will be branded as "N00B wrangler" for an entire group of newbie PCs.

[Gimfalisette]

That's really two different leaderships though:  OOC leadership for new players AND IC leadership for the clan.  That's a lot to ask one player (here, your role is to IC achieve the clan's IC goals  BUT do so in a way that allows you to OOCly take care of the newbie players)

It's an entierly different PC concept to create a PC who is willing to show the ropes to a kid with potential.  It's quite another to create a PC you know will be branded as "N00B wrangler" for an entire group of newbie PCs.

I don't see taking one to three newbies under wing as that much of a problem, assuming the clan leader is also competent to recruit veteran PCs into the clan. Other veteran players will help to care for the newbies too.

I recommended elsewhere that imms should require from apped leaders for the GMHs and the Byn an implicit agreement in accepting the position that "newbie care" is part of the deal, which I'd see as totally reasonable. Newbie care SHOULD be one of the functions of clans. All of the good leaders I've known have done this as a natural part of leadership, anyways.

[garbanzo]

Hrm, nevermind. 

(That is, nevermind my post)

[LoD]

That's really two different leaderships though:  OOC leadership for new players AND IC leadership for the clan.  That's a lot to ask one player (here, your role is to IC achieve the clan's IC goals  BUT do so in a way that allows you to OOCly take care of the newbie players)

It's an entierly different PC concept to create a PC who is willing to show the ropes to a kid with potential.  It's quite another to create a PC you know will be branded as "N00B wrangler" for an entire group of newbie PCs.

Newbie care SHOULD be one of the functions of clans. All of the good leaders I've known have done this as a natural part of leadership, anyways.

I definitely agree with Gimfalisette on this one.  If you are currently occupying a position of leadership within an accessible and coded clan, and you believe that handling newbies (to some degree) is not one of your inherent responsibilities, then you're doing two things:

1. Kidding yourself.
2. Missing out on a great opportunity (for you, for them, and for the game)

Wrangling the characters of new players can be entertaining (they at least keep things interesting), rewarding (seeing them develop over time), and important for player retention -- which has a direct impact on everyone's enjoyment of the game.  Newbies were always my favorite and preferred potential recruit, because I knew that they were much more likely to be honest in their desires, innocent in their experiences, and interested in what we had to offer rather than taking on an obviously established player and all of the learned behavior, mannerisms, and habits that can accompany that personality.

Don't write them off -- Draw them in.

-LoD

[staggerlee]

I'm inclined to agree with LoD. And training newbies doesn't mean you can't be hard on them. A lot of them eventually seem to get themself killed or kicked out of whatever organizations they're in... but that's not to say they're not learning from the experience.

Sometimes its amazing how much of a beating a newbie will take and still keep coming back. Clan forums are a particularly excellent tool, and you can certainly remain ic and be hard on them without oocly discouraging the players.

If I was going to play a leader I'd certainly want the core of my underlings to be experienced, but having a few new players to teach isn't so bad. Hell it can be kind of fun to take them under your wing and show them things that they're experiencing for the first time.  Taking them on as family members can prove to be an excellent experience as well, some of them might disappoint, but some can turn out to be surprisingly fun rpers.

I would also agree that most new players are likely recruited through word of mouth, or know others that play Arm.  Which is a good reason not to waste too much time on rigorous ooc training processes, tour guides and the like. 

[SMuz]

Personally, I find it exciting every time a newbie joins my clan. I like how they play. There are of course, the twink clanners who join a clan for the sole purpose of grinding up their stats (with free food) and then quitting and doing something else. Newbies usually don't do this much, not the ones who'd stay in a RPI, which is why I love them

Most of the players who are willing to get past the writing a description part and reading docs tend to be intelligent and don't need much OOC guidance anyway. IC guidance is part of your responsibility as a leader.

[Voular]

More maps in general. Drawn maps.

My biggest fear when I started playing was stepping outside of the Gaj and getting lost, because I thought quit rooms were really rare. Honestly. I started to draw my own little maps, which just lead me to get even more lost. Curse the ball throwing NPC! >_>

Drawn maps, of Tuluk, Luir's, Red Storm and Allanak. And a general one. We have enough talented people here to create such!

[tortall]

So, moving your contact after touching jalapinos is a BAD idea.

Especially during a RPT.

[manonfire]

So, moving your contact after touching jalapinos is a BAD idea.

Especially during a RPT.

We find these truths to be self-evident.

[SMuz]

Well, my sister just picked up the game, and from it, I've found the first 4 hours into the game can be extremely boring. Peak times are boring because everyone's off having fun, hunting, arguing, whatever. Nobody on the streets or in the taverns. Non-peak times are boring too, because everyone's sleepy and doesn't want to talk to you. Also, there's the fricking sandstorms in 'Nak that happen every night (which are a way of life, but let's face it; a player who doesn't know where anything is will feel bored).

So, I think above all, the players need to feel that the game is alive and active whenever they do log on. Maybe a simple tip like "If you don't know what to do, join a newbie friendly clan, or hang around the Gaj or the Sanctuary". Going out and getting your character permanently killed by a monster with a weird name is not really a good way to learn how fun the game is.

[Synthesis]

Well, my sister just picked up the game, and from it, I've found the first 4 hours into the game can be extremely boring. Peak times are boring because everyone's off having fun, hunting, arguing, whatever. Nobody on the streets or in the taverns. Non-peak times are boring too, because everyone's sleepy and doesn't want to talk to you. Also, there's the fricking sandstorms in 'Nak that happen every night (which are a way of life, but let's face it; a player who doesn't know where anything is will feel bored).

So, I think above all, the players need to feel that the game is alive and active whenever they do log on. Maybe a simple tip like "If you don't know what to do, join a newbie friendly clan, or hang around the Gaj or the Sanctuary". Going out and getting your character permanently killed by a monster with a weird name is not really a good way to learn how fun the game is.

It would be mildly amusing if alcoholism were hard-coded a la Dwarf Fortress, so that people would be more inclined to congregate in taverns to get their daily ale ration.

> stat
Your encumbrance is light.
Relationship to the land is neutral.
You are currently speaking sirihish with a northern accent.
Your mood is foul-tempered.
You are sitting down.
You are refusing saves on: arrest.
You are not being merciful.
You aren't watching anything in particular.
It has been 5 days since your last drink, and it's starting to affect your performance.

[musashi]

Isn't there an addiction code in game already? 

[Morgenes]

You will now get an email when your character dies.  It only gives a link to the bio tool, but it's a start.

[Ender]

You will now get an email when your character dies.  It only gives a link to the bio tool, but it's a start.

Very nice!

[manonfire]

You will now get an email when your character dies.  It only gives a link to the bio tool, but it's a start.

Well goddamn.

[brytta.leofa]

You will now get an email when your character dies.  It only gives a link to the bio tool, but it's a start.

Very nice!

Yes.

And quick, somebody test this.

[Morgenes]

You will now get an email when your character dies.  It only gives a link to the bio tool, but it's a start.

Very nice!

Yes.

And quick, somebody test this.

So that we don't have any suicides to test this, the message you will receive is:

Code Select Expand

Subject: Death of <character name> (<account name>) on ArmageddonMUD
Hello,

   We are sorry to see that your character, <character name>, has recently died.  To get a list of their biography entries, go to:

     http://www.armageddon.org/resources/player_tools/displayBio.php

   Thanks for playing, and we hope to see you back again soon.


                                           Best Regards,


                                           The Armageddon Staff


[Cutthroat]

Very cool.

[Thunkkin]

Nice addition, thanks Morgenes!

Consider this addition: "P.S. We will make sure that your boots go to a worthy player."

[My 2 sids]

This may be a little late but if we are going to have a death email, can I offer a suggestion on the wording?


"Thanks for playing" makes me think the game is over (as opposed to the PC)  so perhaps something like "Great try with <pc name>, to continue playing Armageddon just submit a new character."

[Ourla]

I agree with my My2Sids.

[FantasyWriter]

You will now get an email when your character dies.  It only gives a link to the bio tool, but it's a start.

Thanks, Morg!

[AJM]

Thanks I can't wait to get it....

As an April fools joke you can mass send it to everyone.

[number13]

~wootage~

[IntuitiveApathy]

This may be a little late but if we are going to have a death email, can I offer a suggestion on the wording?


"Thanks for playing" makes me think the game is over (as opposed to the PC)  so perhaps something like "Great try with <pc name>, to continue playing Armageddon just submit a new character."

"Great try" sounds a little condescending to me (though I know you mean to be encouraging).  I do think encouraging someone to submit a new character is a good idea.

My suggestion:

"Thank you for your contribution to our living, breathing world.  It is our sincere hope that you return with a new character to write a fresh chapter in the ongoing story that is Armageddon."

[musashi]

I suggest:

Wow ... bet you weren't expecting that when you logged on huh?

[My 2 sids]

This may be a little late but if we are going to have a death email, can I offer a suggestion on the wording?


"Thanks for playing" makes me think the game is over (as opposed to the PC)  so perhaps something like "Great try with <pc name>, to continue playing Armageddon just submit a new character."

"Great try" sounds a little condescending to me (though I know you mean to be encouraging).  I do think encouraging someone to submit a new character is a good idea.

My suggestion:

"Thank you for your contribution to our living, breathing world.  It is our sincere hope that you return with a new character to write a fresh chapter in the ongoing story that is Armageddon."

I like that.

[FantasyWriter]

I like it a lot.

[garbanzo]

How about something that makes it more clear when you aren't hitched to your mount.  Nothing is more frustrating and depressing as a newbie as when your lose your mount, have no funds, and realize the huge amounts of OOC/IC frustration that lie ahead.  Yes, this can be turned around into a fun RP experience.  But not everyone plays to grind mount cash ... that's what world of warcraft is for.