Steal is overpowered

[audrey]

Ok, fine. Your guy is a master thief. Someone in the tavern leaves his backpack unguarded.. poof, you take it. Maybe you could even take my helm off while I'm talking to someone.

But that doesn't mean you could fricking steal all my clothes when I'm asleep! I mean, c'mon! Unless I'm practically dead, I should notice when someone's taking off my clothes while I'm asleep!

This doesn't mean I don't like steal being powerful.. but the [edited by Nyr] shouldn't be able steal all my clothes whenever I take a short nap. At least not without a good chance of waking me.

I'd just like it to be a lot harder for someone to steal things I'm wearing while I'm sleeping. Especially the [edited by Nyr].

[Synthesis]

Send a player complaint using the request tool.

Include a log of the event, so they know where to search the runlogs.

If you were actually 'asleep,' and someone took -all- your clothes...that's pretty clearly abuse of code.  I've heard of people losing the pickpocket/burglar class options for crap like that.

[Ammut]

I think that people shouldn't have to wake up every 20 seconds or so to make sure their stuff hasn't been swiped.  I know when I first started playing this game I had all my stuff stolen while I was asleep in the Gaj's dormitory.  It was a real pain in the ass and I soon after lost interest in trying to get back on my feet, as all my coin was in my pack.  I soon learned never to sleep in public areas.

There should be a saving throw that will wake you up when someone tugs at something like your shirt or pants, but when it comes to a cap or boots I don't think so.  If you're holding a bag, that too would be an easy target, but slipping a backpack off someone's shoulders? Perhaps if they are heavy sleepers.

[Fathi]

Unless I'm mistaken, there IS an echo when somebody does this, thus giving you a chance to have your PC wake up and notice they're being stolen from.

[audrey]

How do I report it if a NPC does it? [edited by Nyr]

I shouldn't have to wake up every few minutes to make sure that someone didn't steal my clothes. Even if they did, it'd be too late. I think the code should be nerfed, if only to stuff worn on the body and legs and around the body (aba). Wrist, ankles, hand, head, back, feet, neck.. all those are more than valid when you're asleep.

Yeah, you're right, there was an echo: You feel a faint tugging.

But it's mostly when someone tries to rob you when you're unconscious. Doesn't help much if the thief has uber-high skills.

[Gunnerblaster]

Sorry to rain on your parade, darlin', but anyone - even those without the steal code - and nick your clothes right off of you when you sleep.

And what the hell are you doing, sleeping out in public? Your just -begging- to get your shit nicked.

[FightClub]

Sorry to rain on your parade, darlin', but anyone - even those without the steal code - and nick your clothes right off of you when you sleep.

This is very true.  Although I would suggest following the above, reporting the player for abuse.  Problem is, you don't know it it was one player, or twenty, taking advantage of you.  Like a corpse in the street, twinks come by and take everything, good rpers take one or two items, and continue on, you might've been subject to either or, the first is subject to punishment, the second, well, you can't really say much about that.

[Searanox]

Obviously she could tell by the spaces between the echo's she's gotten if one or multiple people stole her shit, but that doesn't matter.

The issue here is, that to steal all of her items she would have to notice the echo multiple times. And if you notice that echo why wouldn't you wake your PC up?

Only answer I can think of is she was passed out due to way, or slept with her stam too low, or was sapped/knocked out. Ad if this is the case, it's perfectly reasonable for her not to wake up when multiple items are being stripped off of her.

There's no need for a code change.

[Gunnerblaster]

Well, you would be able to tell it was me if you recieved this.

Code Select Expand

>somebody says in sirishish, out-of-character:
     "Do you consent?"



I kid, I kid... Or do I?

[Nyr]

I edited some of the more IC information in a couple of posts here.  (Such as where something was stolen, what was stolen, and what happened afterwards.)

Don't do that, please.

[My 2 sids]

And what the hell are you doing, sleeping out in public? Your just -begging- to get your shit nicked.

Yet another small thing which should be told to new players.  I mean, we preach realism, the room shows "sleeping quarters", we cannot fault new players for falling into this trap.   Just like how many don't explain how to -safely- build up the Way skill.

[Yam]

Stealing everything off of a sleeping/passed-out-drunk/otherwise unconscious person is not abuse in any way, shape, or form.

[musashi]

Stealing everything off of a sleeping/passed-out-drunk/otherwise unconscious person is not abuse in any way, shape, or form.

If the person RP'ed out doing it ... I'd agree. Though heh ... I think it is  just a bit in poor taste; esp to a new player.

[Yam]

Stealing everything off of a sleeping/passed-out-drunk/otherwise unconscious person is not abuse in any way, shape, or form.

If the person RP'ed out doing it ... I'd agree. Though heh ... I think it is  just a bit in poor taste; esp to a new player.

No, I'm pretty sure it fosters a good atmosphere.

[UnderSeven]

I will admit it did always kind of bug me that if a PC ever dared to sleep in a communal sleeping area they would literally be robbed blind.  I mean if everyone who ever slept in a communal area ended up robbed naked then no one would sleep in them and there wouldn't be any.  Account for vnps that would be sleeping there and not getting robbed, it always bugged me that unless a pc was guarded by another pc, the chances they would wake up with nothing on them is high.  Yeah, I'm not exactly saying stealing is over powered, I'm just pointing out.  This bugs me.

[Yam]

I will admit it did always kind of bug me that if a PC ever dared to sleep in a communal sleeping area they would literally be robbed blind.  I mean if everyone who ever slept in a communal area ended up robbed naked then no one would sleep in them and there wouldn't be any.  Account for vnps that would be sleeping there and not getting robbed, it always bugged me that unless a pc was guarded by another pc, the chances they would wake up with nothing on them is high.  Yeah, I'm not exactly saying stealing is over powered, I'm just pointing out.  This bugs me.

There is now an echo that says, "you feel a faint tug" or something to that effect.

[UnderSeven]

Does the tug echo occur before the stealing finishes (IE: at the start of the delay) or after the stealing is successful.  Cause if it is after the stealing is successful, this addition is not really going to cut it in making communal sleeping areas very realistic.  Pcs might still find their backpacks stolen at the very least which would in turn still make communal sleeping quarters kind of moot imo. 

[Yam]

Does the tug echo occur before the stealing finishes (IE: at the start of the delay) or after the stealing is successful.  Cause if it is after the stealing is successful, this addition is not really going to cut it in making communal sleeping areas very realistic.  Pcs might still find their backpacks stolen at the very least which would in turn still make communal sleeping quarters kind of moot imo. 

People probably shouldn't sleep in communal sleeping quarters if they have lots of money or expensive clothing/jewelry/equipment.

[Ourla]

I will admit it did always kind of bug me that if a PC ever dared to sleep in a communal sleeping area they would literally be robbed blind.  I mean if everyone who ever slept in a communal area ended up robbed naked then no one would sleep in them and there wouldn't be any.

[UnderSeven]

Does the tug echo occur before the stealing finishes (IE: at the start of the delay) or after the stealing is successful.  Cause if it is after the stealing is successful, this addition is not really going to cut it in making communal sleeping areas very realistic.  Pcs might still find their backpacks stolen at the very least which would in turn still make communal sleeping quarters kind of moot imo. 

People probably shouldn't sleep in communal sleeping quarters if they have lots of money or expensive clothing/jewelry/equipment.

I concur.  I think of it similar to say a homeless shelter.  You wouldn't sleep in one of those with a lot of gold jewelry.  Even an ipod might be pushing it.  BUT, because the nature of Armageddon if you have a pack there is no telling what is inside of it.  Similarly in a homeless shelter you might get shaken down for what might be in your wallet, however, in the real life instance you might wake up from the touch when they start shaking you down and then wake up in time to stop it, where as if the code waits until steal is successful then you're essentially just as helpless as before.  You can type WAKE but your item is gone, and most likely, the offending pc knowing the code, will also be gone.

The point I'm trying to make is if you have something expensive or not, if the code allows the theft to complete before notifying you then the pc is still not going to sleep there because they're still going to get robbed.  Sure this code prevents you from being robbed naked, but it will still allow you to get robbed and instead of losing everything, now you just lose your most valuable thing or just a backpack.  The end result as I see it is still the same.  Pcs will virtually never use communal sleeping places which are almost all described as having a lot of vnpcs already sleeping there.  If pcs can't sleep there because they will get robbed, are we to assume these vnpcs literally have nothing on them at all worth taking?  Not even a single sid piece? 

My point isn't that steal is overpowered.  It is that the functionality of the game doesn't currently fit the world.  If you tried to argue Armageddon was a desert world, but then had a fountain of infinate water anyone could get all they wanted to from for free all over the place then you might question the ic description of the world vs the reality of the situation.  My example maybe extreme but it's kind of the same thing.

[Yam]

Does the tug echo occur before the stealing finishes (IE: at the start of the delay) or after the stealing is successful.  Cause if it is after the stealing is successful, this addition is not really going to cut it in making communal sleeping areas very realistic.  Pcs might still find their backpacks stolen at the very least which would in turn still make communal sleeping quarters kind of moot imo. 

People probably shouldn't sleep in communal sleeping quarters if they have lots of money or expensive clothing/jewelry/equipment.

I concur.  I think of it similar to say a homeless shelter.  You wouldn't sleep in one of those with a lot of gold jewelry.  Even an ipod might be pushing it.  BUT, because the nature of Armageddon if you have a pack there is no telling what is inside of it.  Similarly in a homeless shelter you might get shaken down for what might be in your wallet, however, in the real life instance you might wake up from the touch when they start shaking you down and then wake up in time to stop it, where as if the code waits until steal is successful then you're essentially just as helpless as before.  You can type WAKE but your item is gone, and most likely, the offending pc knowing the code, will also be gone.

The point I'm trying to make is if you have something expensive or not, if the code allows the theft to complete before notifying you then the pc is still not going to sleep there because they're still going to get robbed.  Sure this code prevents you from being robbed naked, but it will still allow you to get robbed and instead of losing everything, now you just lose your most valuable thing or just a backpack.  The end result as I see it is still the same.  Pcs will virtually never use communal sleeping places which are almost all described as having a lot of vnpcs already sleeping there.  If pcs can't sleep there because they will get robbed, are we to assume these vnpcs literally have nothing on them at all worth taking?  Not even a single sid piece? 

My point isn't that steal is overpowered.  It is that the functionality of the game doesn't currently fit the world.  If you tried to argue Armageddon was a desert world, but then had a fountain of infinate water anyone could get all they wanted to from for free all over the place then you might question the ic description of the world vs the reality of the situation.  My example maybe extreme but it's kind of the same thing.

Yeah. Pretty much.

[My 2 sids]

First, we'd need an Imm to confirm but I don't believe communal sleeping areas are equivlant to homeless shelters.  Why? Because I've always assumed that the -majority- of commoners use them.  After all, to be a merchant and afford a place or to be in an organization which has a dorm room is such a luxury.   So, ICly, I don't think it'd be like trying to walk through the 'rinith with a bunch of nice stuff (as in NPCs/VNPCs/etc don't insta-notice)

Second, stealing is stealing.  The lack of a crime-flag doesn't mean taking someone's stuff is legal -- it means you wern't caught.  I mean, if some mugger sucessfully knocked someone out and then took thier stuff it's still stealing.  Isn't it?  ICly, I'd view it kind of like speeding -- yeah, it happens and for the most part you can get away with it; but it's still illegal.   Further, there should be a social stigma -- kind of like the type of PC who would stoop to taking from the dead.  

[Pantoufle]

All too often thieves get a bad rap when the real consideration needs to be placed more heavily on the thief victims.  Naturally nobody wants their character to have their loot robbed or have their character killed.  We generally take great pains to avoid these things while playing and when it does the IC frustration of the event often transcends to our OOC selves.  Which of course is totally legit.  But one still has to consider the big picture.

Every skill has the potential to be abused.  If someone has abused it the fault is on them, not the skill itself.

Thieves, while seemingly all powerful when it comes to acquiring goods, actually have a harder time than you may realize while stealing from PCs.  Close your backpack and you have just made yourself 100% steal proof.  Yet when do you hear posters complaining that this is unfair?  In the real world a bona fide pickpocket probably nabs things from closed containers as frequently as from an open one.  Yet this can't be done in the game.  Is that fair?  Is the level of that unfairness greater to or equal to the unfairness of being stolen from while sleeping?  Just a thought.

I'm not sure about the stealing while asleep issue, I thought it was newly coded for there to be a chance at failure, which then informs the victim in their sleep.  I could be wrong.  I suppose what I'm saying is that while I agree it shouldn't be possible to steal anything and everything from a sleeping victim, the issue is with a) the people abusing said ability and b) that specific aspect of the code.  To say steal is overpowered is only going to support the misperception so many players have that thieves are way overpowered when, on the contrary, thief-victims are the ones obscenely overpowered (close your backpack and - voila - 100% success-rate thief repellant).

[Yokunama]

Unless I'm mistaken, there IS an echo when somebody does this, thus giving you a chance to have your PC wake up and notice they're being stolen from.

It'd be better if there was a chance players woke up automatically like they sometimes do when someone attacks them. And if you are knocked out by a club or the fifth bottle of flame, you won't wake up if someone decides to panty raid you.

Things you should have difficulty taking are pants, shirts, and maybe backpacks. Things like earrings, necklaces, and whathave you are all fair game.

[brytta.leofa]

> ep club
> rest
> change ldesc is sleeping here.
> phemote eyes glitter beneath nearly-shut lids.
(wait 30 secs)
> phemote eyes glitter beneath nearly-shut lids.
(wait 30 secs)
...