Kank tickets

[a strange shadow]

I'm developing my own personal solution to this as we speak. Maybe I'll make a staff announcement about it. But it would be more fun to leave people wondering why all of a sudden after getting a kank from the stables they're looking at the mantis head, and being welcomed to Armageddon.

Just in case he was serious:

Remember that a lot of old tickets are still laying around, and some of them are to kanks. If a character wants to find out what a ticket is to, ends up with a kank, then suffers severe IC consequences, that wouldn't be very fair. I've re-rented every kank I've found and junked the ticket. I certainly don't want to suffer consequences for getting one indistinguishable leather ticket mixed up for another, due to a handful of players being stupid or unaware that they should not be in possession of this strange mount.

A simple solution would be to have a script added to kank tickets which informs you that the bug is dead.

[Synthesis]

Heh, yeah.

With my last pickpocket I must've yoinked several dozens of stable tickets, and about 5 of those turned out to be kanks.

I just took 'em to the butcher shop.

[Bebop]

Heh, yeah.

With my last pickpocket I must've yoinked several dozens of stable tickets, and about 5 of those turned out to be kanks.

I just took 'em to the butcher shop.

...

That's still kind of twinky considering you can get like two small for them at the butcher or something like that.

[Synthesis]

Heh, yeah.

With my last pickpocket I must've yoinked several dozens of stable tickets, and about 5 of those turned out to be kanks.

I just took 'em to the butcher shop.

...

That's still kind of twinky considering you can get like two small for them at the butcher or something like that.

Well, with maxed haggle it ended up being like 4 small.  But even then...that's chump change for your average (smart) pickpocket.

I fail to see how it's twinkish.

>think Geeze, I risk my ass to steal this ticket, and all I get is a dying kank.  I better take this shit to the butchers while it can still walk on its own.

[Yokunama]

I can see people selling off the last of the kanks to a butcher or killing it for its shell which could be worth a ton of money.

[DustMight]

We see herein a failing of Armageddon - when a "pick pocket" considers 400 small to be "chump change" we have a problem.  Pick pockets - most of them - should be living hand to mouth.  One hit of 400 small should be enough to keep the fellow in spice and ale for awhile. 

But, since a good ale costs like 20sid at the Gaj, one would hope that he drank that 400 small in a night.

So maybe it works out in the end.

[Synthesis]

We see herein a failing of Armageddon - when a "pick pocket" considers 400 small to be "chump change" we have a problem.  Pick pockets - most of them - should be living hand to mouth.  One hit of 400 small should be enough to keep the fellow in spice and ale for awhile. 

But, since a good ale costs like 20sid at the Gaj, one would hope that he drank that 400 small in a night.

So maybe it works out in the end.

I don't see the problem?

To clarify:  400 'sid is chump change for a pickpocket under optimal conditions, I suppose.  When I was playing one, I was the only one in town after a long absence of pickpockets, so for the first 5 days of playtime or so, PCs were fairly lax about securing their valuables, and I didn't have much competition. 

But yeah, 1 kank ticket that scores you 400 'sid is chump change when you've already nicked 10 this month.  While you could make the argument that this is excessive, I could make the argument that it's merely a reflection of the ease with which most characters can acquire 'sids.  After all, there are plenty of ways to score 400 'sid with similar risk profiles.  If so many people didn't have stable tickets/expensive items, 400 'sid would be more meaningful.  In essence, the pickpocket only manages to live off the excesses of other characters...so if a pickpocket is wealthy, it's because other characters are rather fabulously so.

I'm not sure if this is a bad thing or not.  On the one hand, it does detract from the struggle to acquire basic needs.  On the other hand, it makes it much easier for people to bribe soldiers/templars/nobles, or to acquire expensive, hard-to-find items, which certainly intensifies the struggle to stay alive over the long-term.  As has been mentioned numerous times, the amount of coin in your bank account is a fairly poor reflection of your ability to stay alive, which I suppose is really the only thing that matters, if anything matters at all.

Not to mention the fact that in order to keep alive, most pickpockets have to pay out rather exorbitant sums to PCs of combat-oriented guilds...because of the tendency of might to make right.  So...if you only nicked a single 400 'sid item a month, you literally would be on the edge of starvation, because chances are the local heavies wouldn't be leaving you alone for less than a few small, which puts you at a clan's salary, without all the associated benefits.

/massive derail

[Clearsighted]

The curse of the burglar and pickpocket is the ability to get stupidly rich, yet have nothing to do with but hoard it or pay other people with to not kill them.

[Angela Christine]

I fail to see how it's twinkish.

>think Geeze, I risk my ass to steal this ticket, and all I get is a dying kank.  I better take this shit to the butchers while it can still walk on its own.

It is questionable because there shouldn't BE a dying kank, there should be a long dead kank.  Just walking it through town to the butcher shop would attract attention, much like walking through town with while levitating or walking through town in the uniform of the opposing city's templarate  -- it shouldn't be there, it doesn't belong.

Realistically, when you hand in the ticket there shouldn't be a live animal attached to it at all.  There should be no profit to be had on a kank that died years ago -- even the shell should be long gone.  On the other hand, if there isn't an animal, then the stable hand shouldn't have charged you 20 coins.  Unless he was charging it for "disposal" of your stinky dead kank because you didn't pick it up before it dropped dead? 


Re-stabling the kank, junking the ticket, and pretending the whole thing never happened would seem to be the safest thing to do

[Rahnevyn]

400 sid is by no means chump change. Even if it were, it's still being obtained under very questionable methods. Yes, that was twinkish. Synthesis, you really should know better.

Kanks are DEAD. There are NO -- zero, zip, zilch, none, nada, cos(90 degrees) -- kanks left. ANYWHERE.

EVERY SINGLE KANK IN THE WHOLE ENTIRE WORLD IS DEAD.

If you find a kank ticket, please re-rent the kank and junk it. If you wish up and ask nicely to the staff, I might even give your 20 coins back.* Do not under any circumstances attempt to sell, trade, ride, or eat the kank.

*I can't speak for anyone else, who may or may not refund your coins and/or kill you.


multiple edits for extra emphasis

[Shalooonsh]

I, as one of the staffers who will likely kill you if they find you running about with a kank, would like to reiterate the ABSOLUTELY NO KANKS ANYWHERE part of the above message.

Depending on what you did with the kank in the mean time, I may even remove karma.  That -is- a breach of trust, and it will be noticed.

[mansa]

Can the kank ticket issue be put into the MOTD, as a reminder?

[Archbaron]

Can the kank ticket issue be put into the MOTD, as a reminder?

How about a code update next reboots that makes the stablehands tell you its dead?

Hmm, I wonder what you guys are planning to the point where there can't be any kanks. Is everyone going to die of honey malnutrition?

[Rahnevyn]

Kanks have been dead ever since shortly after the event that talks about them all dying off in the history file. The last known kank in Zalanthas died off several IC years ago now.

We're not "planning" anything, the fact that some really old mount tickets still give kanks is due to OOC oversight. ICly, they simply do not exist.

[musashi]

So ... if I find a ticket that gives me a kank ... and I use the think and feel commands to RP out not knowing they're all dead ... ... it's cool right?

[Archbaron]

I bet their honey cures some disease that we're all going to die to.

[FantasyWriter]

I bet their honey cures some disease that we're all going to die to.

Like the ants in Medicine Man?

[Lizzie]

New players who discover their very first mount ticket, aren't going to know that kanks no longer exist. They won't know that they need to check the help files to find out that kanks don't exist. They will not know that there was an "event" that caused kanks to no longer exist. They won't know that they need to come here to the GDB and learn about how kanks no longer exist. They will only know, that the stablehand gave them a kank. That is what they will know. I don't think it is a good precident to punish players for doing -something- to kanks, other than restabling and junking tickets. The stablehand already has the code to take the ticket and not give back a mount when they get tickets for untamed wild animals. If "dead non-existent virtual kanks that don't really exist, but somehow manage to get ticketed and be in the stables when you try taking them out" were flagged as "untamed wild animals," the problem would be solved, and the players would not have to be punished, and the staff wouldn't have to decide which players to punish, and which players to overlook the error with.

[Rahnevyn]

No one's being or been punished, as obviously there's still some misunderstandings and misinformation about this. Of course, we know YOU all know, and experienced players who've been around in the last year would reasonably know what's up. If it were a new player making an honest mistake, that'd be different than a player willfully exploiting what they know to be an OOC oversight for personal gain of their character.

I'm not empowered to change the code about this, and neither is Shalooonsh. If we were, we would, and yes, I'll try and make someone do that. But meanwhile, we can both at least comment here to let everyone know what's up with kanks -- that they are dead, and that you shouldn't be using them for ANYTHING if you get one from an old stable ticket.

[Synthesis]

Well, if you folks felt so strongly about it, you should've fucking done something about it, instead of allowing kanks to be removed from the stables like that.

My fucking bad.  Obviously it's not something that's "common sense," if it wasn't intuitive for me after playing the game for 10 fucking years.

[DustMight]

Well, if you folks felt so strongly about it, you should've fucking done something about it, instead of allowing kanks to be removed from the stables like that.

My fucking bad.  Obviously it's not something that's "common sense," if it wasn't intuitive for me after playing the game for 10 fucking years.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
- Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 2

That said, chill. The world moves on.  I've been playing for hella long time too and I would be mightly tempted to do it as well - I mean - 400sids isn't going to end the world for anyone - but it is what it is, isn't it?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm pretty sure a script could be put on the kank NPC to insta purge it. It would help things, Rah and Shal, and I think that's in your power.

Syn, calm the fuck down. If you didn't know, you didn't know, but it seemed intuitive to me, and prolly most everyone else.

[Synthesis]

Oh, I'm sorry...I guess I didn't just get called a twink by an Immortal on the public discussion board?

That's incredibly rude, and I think I'm perfectly justified in being a little angry about it.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Rah's not terribly polite in the first place if he doesn't want to be, but he's not unfair. What you did was twinky, whether you meant for it to be or not. I don't think too many people are going to argue that it wasn't. Saying that you did something twinky is not calling you twinky.

Furthermore, you admitted that you did it on the public board and thought it was fine to do so, so Staff clarifying that it was bad form and twinky behavior on the public board prolly shouldn't be taken as an insult.

In any case, we've established. Kank armors and shells, not obsolete just yet. Kank foods, and kanks, definitely obsolete.

[Ammut]

So... if I found a couple globs of sticky kank honey somewhere, would it be a good idea to junk them or consider them... like crystallized honey?

/derail

[Synthesis]

Rah's not terribly polite in the first place if he doesn't want to be, but he's not unfair. What you did was twinky, whether you meant for it to be or not. I don't think too many people are going to argue that it wasn't. Saying that you did something twinky is not calling you twinky.

Furthermore, you admitted that you did it on the public board and thought it was fine to do so, so Staff clarifying that it was bad form and twinky behavior on the public board prolly shouldn't be taken as an insult.

In any case, we've established. Kank armors and shells, not obsolete just yet. Kank foods, and kanks, definitely obsolete.

I stand by my actions, as performed, when performed.  I don't think they were in any way twinkish, given the information I had about the situation at the time.

What, exactly, is twinkish about thinking, "Hey, I just happen to have gotten one of the last kanks that was clinging on to dear life?"  Nothing.  I got a kank, so I frickin' got it butchered.

This was a failure by the Staff to clearly communicate the situation, and a failure to implement code that appropriately dealt with the situation.  Now that the policy has been clarified, yes, it would be twinkish.  However, at the time, this policy was obviously not clear cut, else this thread wouldn't have been begun in the first place. I was not being twinkish in any way, shape, or form.  I was acting in good faith on the best information I had available at the time.

So, yes, I will continue to be irritated by it until I get an apology.

[Lakota]

I think you're going about this the wrong way Synthesis. Perhaps you should continue this exchange with staff via email.

On topic: Yeah, you get a kank ticket, junk it and wish up for reimbursement. I'm just happy I have one of the coolest kank-items that I hope to hold onto for awhile. Too bad I have no use for the damned thing. 

[Taven]

400 sid is by no means chump change. Even if it were, it's still being obtained under very questionable methods. Yes, that was twinkish. Synthesis, you really should know better.

Kanks are DEAD. There are NO -- zero, zip, zilch, none, nada, cos(90 degrees) -- kanks left. ANYWHERE.

EVERY SINGLE KANK IN THE WHOLE ENTIRE WORLD IS DEAD.

If you find a kank ticket, please re-rent the kank and junk it. If you wish up and ask nicely to the staff, I might even give your 20 coins back.* Do not under any circumstances attempt to sell, trade, ride, or eat the kank.

*I can't speak for anyone else, who may or may not refund your coins and/or kill you.


multiple edits for extra emphasis

Does this mean I can't hire a whore for a kank anymore?

Awwww, man!

Asides from that, wow, my question spawned quite the little thread-monster here.

[Cerelum]

Oh, I'm sorry...I guess I didn't just get called a twink by an Immortal on the public discussion board?

That's incredibly rude, and I think I'm perfectly justified in being a little angry about it.

If you pulled a kank from a stable and butchered it, you were twinking.  I've twinked before and been called out on it, it sucks, but it's one of those things you just gotta take.

Don't twink or think ic thoughts and feels justify you doing something you know you damn well shouldn't have.

Everyone for the most part who posts on the GDB is pretty experienced, at least enough to know kanks are dead.  Ignorance is no excuse for the law.

JaRoD

[mansa]

What about the people who don't read the GDB, nor the website history files?  If this is such a strong issue, it should be documented somewhere until the problem is done.

A note in the MOTD is a perfect place, since everybody must read that when they log into the game.  Some people who have taken a 2 year break might not know what has happened lately, if they re-enter the game.

Personally, I would have done exactly as Synthesis had done, if I was in Allanak.  If I was in Tuluk I would of wished up.  I would try and eliminate the kank from the game, the most efficient way possible.  If I could do it myself, I would.

[Cerelum]

What about the people who don't read the GDB, nor the website history files?  If this is such a strong issue, it should be documented somewhere until the problem is done.

A note in the MOTD is a perfect place, since everybody must read that when they log into the game.  Some people who have taken a 2 year break might not know what has happened lately, if they re-enter the game.

I think they aren't talking about people like that though.  This person obviously does read the boards, obviously has been playing. If it was some newb right in his first set of boots who found a corpse and pulled a kank, I doubt the staff would even say anything.  But if I do it, or Mansa, or anyone else like maybe Synthesis, it's just fuckin twinkin, regardless.

JaRoD

[Archbaron]

What about the people who don't read the GDB, nor the website history files?  If this is such a strong issue, it should be documented somewhere until the problem is done.

A note in the MOTD is a perfect place, since everybody must read that when they log into the game.  Some people who have taken a 2 year break might not know what has happened lately, if they re-enter the game.

Right, or maybe we can just stick in a link to the History page in the MOTD and remind them to read it over. Anything big and important that everyone should know is in there.

And, Cerelum, newbs don't have this problem because once they get to a skill level where they can kill people old enough to even have kank tickets on them, they aren't a newb anymore.

[Cerelum]

What about the people who don't read the GDB, nor the website history files?  If this is such a strong issue, it should be documented somewhere until the problem is done.

A note in the MOTD is a perfect place, since everybody must read that when they log into the game.  Some people who have taken a 2 year break might not know what has happened lately, if they re-enter the game.

Right, or maybe we can just stick in a link to the History page in the MOTD and remind them to read it over. Anything big and important that everyone should know is in there.

And, Cerelum, newbs don't have this problem because once they get to a skill level where they can kill people old enough to even have kank tickets on them, they aren't a newb anymore.

I think they aren't talking about people like that though.  This person obviously does read the boards, obviously has been playing. If it was some newb right in his first set of boots who found a corpse and pulled a kank, I doubt the staff would even say anything.  But if I do it, or Mansa, or anyone else like maybe Synthesis, it's just fuckin twinkin, regardless.

JaRoD

I said found a corpse, you don't gotta kill it to find a corpse, I find corpses all the times in the sands and such that were killed by wildlife.

[Archbaron]

What about the people who don't read the GDB, nor the website history files?  If this is such a strong issue, it should be documented somewhere until the problem is done.

A note in the MOTD is a perfect place, since everybody must read that when they log into the game.  Some people who have taken a 2 year break might not know what has happened lately, if they re-enter the game.

Right, or maybe we can just stick in a link to the History page in the MOTD and remind them to read it over. Anything big and important that everyone should know is in there.

And, Cerelum, newbs don't have this problem because once they get to a skill level where they can kill people old enough to even have kank tickets on them, they aren't a newb anymore.

I think they aren't talking about people like that though.  This person obviously does read the boards, obviously has been playing. If it was some newb right in his first set of boots who found a corpse and pulled a kank, I doubt the staff would even say anything.  But if I do it, or Mansa, or anyone else like maybe Synthesis, it's just fuckin twinkin, regardless.

JaRoD

I said found a corpse, you don't gotta kill it to find a corpse, I find corpses all the times in the sands and such that were killed by wildlife.

The fact still stands, I don't think many people are wandering around with tickets like that. It's been quite a while since kanks were off of stable lists for purchase.

[Zoan]

cos(90 degrees)

Doesn't cos(90) equal 1?

[mansa]

cos(90 degrees)

Doesn't cos(90) equal 1?

Sin(90) equals 1.  Cos(0) equals 1.

[Bogre]

No. Sin(90) is 1. Cos(0) is also 1.

[Zoan]

Oops, my mistake.

[Pale Horse]

So... if I found a couple globs of sticky kank honey somewhere, would it be a good idea to junk them or consider them... like crystallized honey?

/derail

Where they just laying out, or where they stored, someplace?

[Ammut]

So... if I found a couple globs of sticky kank honey somewhere, would it be a good idea to junk them or consider them... like crystallized honey?

/derail

Where they just laying out, or where they stored, someplace?

I found them in a set of shelves, along with numerous other pieces of food.

[FantasyWriter]

Earth honey never spoils, or so I have been told.

[amish overlord]

Real life honey can last for millenia, I would assume kank honey could do the same. They found honey in tombs of the pharoahs, that was still technically good.

Amish Overlord 

[amish overlord]

From wikipedia....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Honey_preservation

Amish Overlord 

[Ammut]

This was what I thought as well.  I assume it would be from before the kanks died, so it would not necessarily have been tainted.

[FantasyWriter]

Kank honey: the NEW generic poison.

[Thunkkin]

Kank honey: the NEW generic poison.

Sounds like a euphemism to me.

[Vanth]

[Angela Christine]

I stand by my actions, as performed, when performed.  I don't think they were in any way twinkish, given the information I had about the situation at the time.

Time is an important variable here. 

If you did it last week, then yes, it would definitely be a questionable act that most players would consider at least leaning toward twinkery, because even casual players know that the kanks are dead and have been for a very long time.  No one has seen a live kank for years of IC time.  So a live kank would be remarkable.  If there were any living kanks left in the stable, they would be a wonder.   You could put them on exhibit and sell tickets for people to come see the worlds last kank.  More likely, if any kanks were still alive after 99% of kanks had died, they would eithre have bee slaughtered to prevent any chance of their ailment passing on to other creature, or they would have been confiscated by the Templar.  Any kanks that were resistant or immune to kank blight would be incredibly valuable.  It simply makes no sense that a kank would have been living in (and being fed by) a public stables for 13 years after the species is thought to have gone extinct, and no one noticed or thought anything about it.  It defies common sense.

If you were a wanderer and found a wild kank somewhere in the deep wilderness, that might be an exception.  It is ICly plausible that a wild population could have been isolated enough that it was never affected by whatever sickened the domestic kank. ( OOCly I'd still be inclined to think it was a mistake, since getting rid of DarkSun IP seems to have been the reason for executing the kanks.)   Common sense could go either way here. 

If you did it  a year ago, when the mass kank death was still fresh, then it is considerably less certain that any abuse of obsolete code was involved.  It would still be notable to see a living kank, even sick one, but due to the plastic nature of time in a MUD I wouldn't consider it twinkery to dispose of the kank through IC means.  Sometimes players don't log in for a few months, but their character still exists, so when they log in they sometimes spend a little time "catching up" with the things the character should have been doing during the logged out time.


The farther you get from the extinction event, and the closer you get to now, the more unrealistic it becomes that a kank, even a sick kank, has been surviving in a public stable.  At some point getting a live kank from a stable has to be regarded as a bug, a quirk of obsolete code injecting an impossible thing into the game world.  The code shouldn't be doing that, and it is unfortunate that the coders didn't find a way to eliminate the rogue kanks as soon as all urban kanks were officially extinct.  By now it is obvious to anyone that has been playing in the last couple years that kanks are extinct, and any appearing in a public stable is a bug.  (Or perhaps a foul magickal illusion).

    1575 (Year 35 Age 21)
    Several merchant houses make silt skimmer expeditions into the Sea of Silt, pressing into the unknown reaches south of Red Storm. Sometime during the trip, they attract the attention of the enigmatic and impossibly large Silt Giants, also known as "true giants." The giants chase the skimmer expedition back to shore, making landfall in Red Storm East. Over the course of the next few years, a few giants, so tall that their silhouettes are visible for miles, settle in Red Storm East, driving out the farmers and workers who, until then, produced much of Allanak's grain. Famine sweeps through the southern parts of the known world as grain becomes all but unavailable in Allanak and elsewhere.
    In the same year, a mysterious malady begins to sweep throughout the known world, causing the kank - Zalanthans' primary method of transporation - to slowly sicken and die. Trade routes suffer as the centers of civilization struggle to obtain a new means of healthy, cheap beasts of burden to replace the dying animals. Kank honey, an ingredient in many popular foodstuffs for the upper class, becomes virtually nonexistent. Many factions across the known world devote countless hours of time and effort to discovering and halting the unknown illness, to no effect. Over time, the kank becomes all but extinct. 

[SMuz]

Leave him be. I'm of the belief that RP should be based around code. What's the guy supposed to do when he suddenly tickets in something he stole and gets a kank? Even if it is a bug, you'd expect the staff to not have missed something this important. Even if it is a kank corpse.. it's not so wrong that he'd be butchering a dead one.

But because of this thread, I'm sure everyone else finding a kank in the stables is going to be junking theirs after this.

[brytta.leofa]

A character of mine purchased one of the last kanks the templarate sold, I believe.  On unstabling it and finding it sick, he attempted to sell it to a patron in the Bard's Barrel, but was stopped by a militia officer who ordered him to have the poor bug slaughtered.

Yes, you heard it here: Allanak is anti-business.

[Fathi]

I'd like to point out that the history timeline entry and what Rah and Shal have said appear to be different. When I read the timeline that said kanks became "all but extinct," that made me assume that there were possibly still some kanks somewhere (in a certain few places I know of that used to have lots of kanks and are relatively isolated).

If this isn't true, perhaps the timeline entry should be edited.

I know the correct information is currently listed in 'help kank,' but new players (or veterans who don't constantly run around reading helpfiles) are far more likely to check the timeline, and the timeline entry about kanks has some ambiguous language.

[HunterKiller]

Damn ...  being a player who's taken more than 2 years off, this is genuinely news to me. I'm going to go hunting on the history b.s. and see what else I missed ... (and check my old-ass character's pockets .. heh)

Experienced players are not incapable of mistakes and they're also smart enough to know not to intentionally do stupid things because of the consequences. I think stellar role-players in particular are sometimes treated harshly because everyone assumes a mistake was intentional. In a twisted and sucky way it is actually a compliment, even though you want to throttle the dip who started it.

- HK

[jhunter]

*sigh* I miss kanks.